USDA Couldn't Track Their Own Shadow!!!

[S.S.A.P.]

Say we did have a traceback system, do you really think those calves would of been registered? They're not supposed to be here. I'm sure whoever is responsible for bringing them over the line knows that. It would be like committing a crime using a gun registered to you.

I doubt that an American owner rof registered cattle in Canada would go to the trouble to smuggle them south and then turn around and consign them to a South Dakota sales market as feeders.

 

[Manitoba_Rancher]

Is it possible that someone stole some tags out of Canada and placed them in these animals ears ?? There absolutely no way that the barcode tags could be missed unless the feedlot operator was totally blind. Im not sure if this one can be blamed on R-calf but someone is up to no good.

 

[ocm]

Is it possible that someone stole some tags out of Canada and placed them in these animals ears ?? There absolutely no way that the barcode tags could be missed unless the feedlot operator was totally blind. Im not sure if this one can be blamed on R-calf but someone is up to no good.

Just a clarification question. What do the bar code tags look like? Do they have a great big CAN in capital letters. I assure you I wouldn't know a tag was Canadian unless it did. I would just assume it was a normal producer ear tag.

 

[Manitoba_Rancher]

ocm.... The tags that carry the bar code (not rfid) are jsut like the x-large allflex but htey have the bar code at the bottom and a maple leaf on them I believe. I f I can find a picture I will post it.

 

[mwj]

Ot do not be so quick to say the ID is not on the horizon. Wait till the pres. desides this little deal could effect the security of the food system when we can't track 7 head bkwds. thru 3 owners. Did you ever hear of a little group called HOMELAND SECURITY :shock: Run all your theorys by them and see how far you or r-calf gets :roll:

 

[PORKER]

3 SECONDS is all it takes to find public info .SSAP,
Quote;I believe its obvious,Canada has no way of tracking these cattle either.
Allowing more cattle especially OTM cattle south of the 49th, is going to be a hard sale with no one having the capability of tracing them. ????????

Beg your Pardon, www.ScoringAg.com can track any thing anywhere ,even timber at the speed of Google.

 

[HAY MAKER]

3 SECONDS is all it takes to find public info .SSAP,
Quote;I believe its obvious,Canada has no way of tracking these cattle either.
Allowing more cattle especially OTM cattle south of the 49th, is going to be a hard sale with no one having the capability of tracing them. ????????

Beg your Pardon, www.ScoringAg.com can track any thing anywhere ,even timber at the speed of Google.

Yes,IF you have willing participant's otherwise you have what we have here ............not much,your tracking system is only as good as the folks using it,maybe you missed that part ?...........good luck

 

[S.S.A.P.]

3 SECONDS is all it takes to find public info .SSAP,
Quote;I believe its obvious,Canada has no way of tracking these cattle either.
Allowing more cattle especially OTM cattle south of the 49th, is going to be a hard sale with no one having the capability of tracing them. ????????

Beg your Pardon, www.ScoringAg.com can track any thing anywhere ,even timber at the speed of Google.

Porker ...... hey Porker ...... in CANADA it is NOT PUBLIC INFORMATION.

 

[Anonymous]

Ot do not be so quick to say the ID is not on the horizon. Wait till the pres. desides this little deal could effect the security of the food system when we can't track 7 head bkwds. thru 3 owners. Did you ever hear of a little group called HOMELAND SECURITY :shock: Run all your theorys by them and see how far you or r-calf gets :roll:

Oh I don't doubt its on the horizon-- USDA is still trying to get each state to set up their own ID system-and pushing the National ID thru this way- but unless Bruce Knight was blowing smoke, he said they have realized that the ID industry doesn't yet have technology available nor does USDA have a workable plan that would not put on an excessive burden and cost on the producers and the entire industry.....

And it can't just be done overnight- If its going to take a working/operating National ID before Rule 2 cattle can be tracked and allowed into the country-- Canada may be waiting years and years....
USDA apparently can't even set up a system to keep Canadian tag numbers readily available on the number of cattle now imported.... :roll:

 

[PORKER]

in CANADA it is NOT PUBLIC INFORMATION,,***** SOOOO! you are saying that a BLACK angus calf with a ear tag is not legal information, your saying that a heifer with a tag number in a database is illegal info, your saying that the calfs born date is illegal information, then you had better keep those undocumated animals home. You surely can't drive your car down to the states with out a licence plate and who it was registered too,can YOU?

Your Canadian ID system was built to work without politics,WASN'T IT !

 

[don]

the canadian id system was built for a purpose - health issues. do you want life insurance companies mining health records. cars have licence plates for a purpose and you agree to the use of that information when you buy the plate but i don't think you consent to the use of information for other purposes. we will keep the undocumented animals at home but maybe its americans smuggling in undocumented animals that are the problem.

 

[PORKER]

Their should be no mining of producer info. Or was this the way Canada's system was built?? You can't datamine nothing in a ScoringAg database system. No benchmarking in the ScoringAg database system. You can only get the info of the animal you have infront of you.

Try running a ScoringAg SEARCH on this RFID numbered calf 804000000045821 . Can you ?

 

[S.S.A.P.]

Just a clarification question. What do the bar code tags look like? Do they have a great big CAN in capital letters. I assure you I wouldn't know a tag was Canadian unless it did. I would just assume it was a normal producer ear tag.

Pictures of both Canadian bar coded and RFID > go to

http://www.canadaid.com/Producer/exporters.shtml

click on the pdf file called: CCIA Tag Standards and Specifications for Exporters

This 2 page pdf has a picture of probably what is the smallest version: approx. 2 3/8 inches wide – depth increases from approx. 2" to 4": the larger size for in herd data, either custom orders, hand written or off the shelf pre-numbered stock.

 

[Tam]

in CANADA it is NOT PUBLIC INFORMATION,,***** SOOOO! you are saying that a BLACK angus calf with a ear tag is not legal information, your saying that a heifer with a tag number in a database is illegal info, your saying that the calfs born date is illegal information, then you had better keep those undocumated animals home. You surely can't drive your car down to the states with out a licence plate and who it was registered too,can YOU?

Your Canadian ID system was built to work without politics,WASN'T IT !

Porker, I can drive vehicles registered to my husband anywhere I want and I do take it to the US a Lot as that is where my family lives but I can't go into our insurance agent and ask what vehicles my husband has registar to his name without them saying sorry we can't give you that information, even though I'm there to pay for the licences of his vehicles.

In Canada we take the word PRIVATE and CONFIDENTIAL SERIOUSLY. And it doesn't matter who you are if you are not authorized to recieve the information you don't get it. The CCIA data base is not open to the public as it was designed and sold to producers as a strictly confidential data site only to be accessed when an animal was found truly diseased. Buyers can access the age of any animal in the system if they have a tag number and the producer did take the option of age vertifing his cattle BUT THEY CAN NOT ACCESS THE NAME OF THE PRODUCER THAT RAISED THE ANIMAL UNLESS THERE IS A REPORTABLE DISEASE FOUND. Which in the case of these seven feeders THE PRODUCERS NAME IS NOT ACCESSABLE TO THE CFIA OR THE USDA as there was no disease found.

 

[PORKER]

Tam, I checked breeds and I found that in the Canadian database that all breeds are not listed.

 

[PORKER]

Porker, I can drive vehicles registered to my husband anywhere I want and I do take it to the US a Lot as that is where my family lives but I can't go into our insurance agent and ask what vehicles my husband has registar to his name without them saying sorry we can't give you that information,

Tam , If I was the law and I stop you on my state's roads and ask for ID and Car information ,what could I find? Yes a whole list of ID information including even the year the car was manufactured right on the windshield called a vin number.I then ask you for your insurance and drivers licence. Then I run a search on the plate. You had better match to the ID or I will put you in the back seat for a overnight stay as Oldtimer would say.

 

[don]

porker: Tam , If I was the law and I stop you on my state's roads and ask for ID and Car information ,what could I find? Yes a whole list of ID information including even the year the car was manufactured right on the windshield called a vin number.I then ask you for your insurance and drivers licence. Then I run a search on the plate. You had better match to the ID or I will put you in the back seat for a overnight stay as Oldtimer would say.

when you go to licence your vehicle you provide that information to the govt. knowing what it will be used for. if the govt. sells that info to insurance or vehicle companies for them to use that would be outside the normal uses and, i would suspect, the foi laws. when you sell your system (which you so generously promote here) to a customer i would bet the sales agreement details the uses of the information they put into your database and the protection they are paying for. it's disingenuous for you, of all people, to say canada should just cough up any information usda or a packer asks for.

 

[S.S.A.P.]

PORKER wrote: "responding to S.S.A.P.'s ": in CANADA it is NOT PUBLIC INFORMATION,,

***** SOOOO! you are saying that a BLACK angus calf with a ear tag is not legal information, your saying that a heifer with a tag number in a database is illegal info, your saying that the calfs born date is illegal information, then you had better keep those undocumated animals home. You surely can't drive your car down to the states with out a licence plate and who it was registered too,can YOU?

Your Canadian ID system was built to work without politics,WASN'T IT !

To Porker...... when you sell your system (which you so generously promote here) to a customer i would bet the sales agreement details the uses of the information they put into your database and the protection they are paying for. it's disingenuous for you, of all people, to say canada should just cough up any information usda or a packer asks for.

don, I believe what porker just implied was that his definition of " is NOT public information" equates to being "not legal" or "illegal"

He then has said that the company he sells for has a database which IS public information.

***** SOOOO! what he is saying/implying to us is ... to use anything but his system we are breaking the law ............... strange sales gimmick.


Porker I have questions - if I was to enter one of our BLACK angus calves :wink: in your data base (BD, Tag #, location, name etc) do you request like a $3,000.00 refundable deposit with that animal to insure that I make every successive owner enter that animal's movement, health ... etc to the point where Mrs./Mr. Homemaker wants complete pasture to plate info. How do you guarantee that "all that information" is available with a search of your company's database?

Speaking of public information

Beg your Pardon, www.ScoringAg.com can track any thing anywhere ,even timber at the speed of Google.

What percentage of first time entry's result in a dead end with that initial entry?

 

[Tam]

Porker, I can drive vehicles registered to my husband anywhere I want and I do take it to the US a Lot as that is where my family lives but I can't go into our insurance agent and ask what vehicles my husband has registar to his name without them saying sorry we can't give you that information,

Tam , If I was the law and I stop you on my state's roads and ask for ID and Car information ,what could I find? Yes a whole list of ID information including even the year the car was manufactured right on the windshield called a vin number.I then ask you for your insurance and drivers licence. Then I run a search on the plate. You had better match to the ID or I will put you in the back seat for a overnight stay as Oldtimer would say.

Porker if I was to buy into your system and register my cattle, under what circumstances would you allow my information to be viewed by others say packers, foreign governments or maybe just Joe Blow/R-CALF member off the street?

BTW Porker under US law does the officer that stops me for a minor traffic violation have the right to search through my vehicle or come to Canada and search my home for say evidence in something that I was not involved with? :? Would he not have to have some kind of proof a crime was commited and I was involved to get a search warrent to access my vehicle or home? :nod: How many of those guys that have been put in the back seat for an overnight were later cleared do to lack of evidence of a crime ?

 

[PORKER]

DON;when you go to declare your cattle farm you provide that information to the govt. knowing what it will be used for. if the govt. sells*** It's illegal to sell private information .

that info to insurance or vehicle companies for them to use that would be outside the normal uses

and, i would suspect, the foi laws. when you sell your system (which you so generously promote here,it's your choice to use it) to a customer i would bet the sales agreement details the uses of the information they put into your database and the protection they are paying for. it's disingenuous for you, of all people, to say canada should just cough up any information usda or a packer asks for.***** If you checked out the SAg system their are no names , no addresses,Maybe a picture and basic data. It's the animals own web page. Shouldn't the next owner have the right to know????

SAAP;Porker I have questions - if I was to enter one of our BLACK angus calves in your(William Kanitz owns the company)data base (BD, Tag #, location, name etc) do you request like a $3,000.00 refundable deposit with that animal to insure that I make every successive owner enter that animal's movement, health ... etc to the point where Mrs./Mr. Homemaker wants complete pasture to plate info.***** Where did you Get $3,000.00 refundable deposit from or did you just pick something out of the sky??? The database entry costs only $0.55 per animal.

How do you guarantee that "all that information" is available with a search of your company's database? **** Information cannot be changed once entered as per the pres.Wm Kanitz unless you don't fillout all the info.

Speaking of public information don wrote:
Beg your Pardon, www.ScoringAg.com can track any thing anywhere ,even timber at the speed of Google.
What percentage of first time entry's result in a dead end with that initial entry? *****I will check with the owner Wm Kanitz or you can email him thur the web site.If you don't pass any info to the next owner ,he can still enter the tag number into the search engine a only see the information along side of the picture or video that has been entered so far. If he was a logged member of ScoringAg and had the animal records moved out to him ,then to read its tag number ,it would show all info from the last movement back to when it was born.


Tam;Porker if I was to buy into your system and register my cattle, under what circumstances would you allow my information to be viewed by others say packers, foreign governments or maybe just Joe Blow/R-CALF member off the street? ***** They can't see cattle info unless the records were moved to them by the last owner . If the animal went thur a packing plant with Meat Books software ,then all cuts would carry a SSI-EID code on every Retail package of beef to show that it was a black Angus,
BD, Tag #, location code, sire ,dam ,weight,and carcass grade and any other certification.

BTW Porker under US law does the officer that stops me for a minor traffic violation have the right to search through my vehicle **** Probable cause !