Manitoba_Rancher
Well-known member
Ot
You sure would make a good politician as you sure can talk your way around things...... :lol: :lol:
You sure would make a good politician as you sure can talk your way around things...... :lol: :lol:
mwj
Well-known member
Haymaker did the Washington state cow go into the food chain. Yes or no will do or if she did not please feel free to point out my lack of education :roll: As far as OT or any of the other cheerleaders on here talking about unsafe US beef on this board I guess I just plain missed that discusion.:
S.S.A.P.
Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
BSE Ongoing Surveillance Program Cumulative Total
From Sep 1, 2006: 8,572 (Canada 17,963 same time period)
Month - Tests US :: (tests Canada)
Dec 2006 - 2,477 :: (5769)
Nov 2006 - 2,235 :: (5563)
Oct 2006 - 2,068 :: (3243)
Sep 2006 - 1,792 :: (3388)
Big Muddy rancher
Well-known member
S.S.A.P. said:
Hey that looks like were testing at twice the numbers on a herd one tenth in size. I think we just might be doing a little better job. NO wonder they don't find anything.
Oldtimer said:
You know Oldtimer I am so sick of you and others using our testing results to somehow come to the conclusion that we are a higher risk. :roll:
How about we compare industries to see who is the higher risk? :wink:
take into consideration we are BOTH BSE POSITIVE.
1. the animals that are targeted for testing:
Canada 4D's the highest risk cattle those recommended by the OIE,
US slaughter cattle, and unless Leo was wrong in saying the US doesn't process downers I'd say you test a lower risk cattle.
2. the percentages of our herds that are actually tested:
We have all seen the numbers enough to know the US is way behind and now with announced cut backs in testing, will be testing a very small FRACTION of what Canada tests precentage wise!!!!!
3. the actual testing method:
Canada uses same test all other countries us and confirmes using out of country sources.
US Test used for most of their ENHANCED SURVEILANCE PERIOD, PHYLLIS PROVED to be lacking when she sent the test samples out of country for confirmation.
4. Firewalls:
Canada not one animal knowingly (just for you Oldtimer) has made it into our food chain.
US at least one and since they don't test ALL animals maybe more.
5. Feedbans:
Canada updated at least twice since implementation,
US has industry recognized loopholes but has failed to do anything about them.
6. Post EFFECTIVE Feed ban positives:
Canada yes but is not uncommon because every other country that have an effective feed ban in place has also experienced Post Feed ban Positives .
US not sure, can you call what they have an effective feed ban when there are known loopholes and it just might be the testing they do is not finding the positives. Or someone is discretely handling them like Haymaker hinted would have happen to the other two if Canada hadn't focused world eyes on North America. :wink:
7. Compliance to feed ban:
Canada has well documented records to prove compliance, in recent past one recall due to possible contamination of small amount of feed.
US has a GAO investigation the proves FDA claims of compliance are questionable due to poor to no record keeping, Has had Feed plants found repeatedly violating feed bans with no prompt action to clean them up, and in recent years have had several major feed recalls of feed that was made and sold in more than a few states over an extended period.
Doesn't look good when you compare apples to apples does it Oldtimer? :shock: Positive test results only prove one thing in the US/ Canada case and that is that Canada in NOT CHEATING TO HIDE THE TRUTH. :wink:
Geez How could I forget the biggest difference of all in the score of who's industry is a bigger risk
8. Investigations in to BSE cases
Canada OIE states Canada should be emulated in the way they have handled their investigation and all investigation ended with most if not all questions answered
US OIE told the to stop looking and clean up the whole system and investigations ended with many many question left UNANSWERED
9. Tracing ability of herd
Canada, industry designed and implemented system up and running for few years prior to discovery of BSE with age vertifiaction by birthdate to prove age of animals exported.
US still fighting about Who What Where and When YEAR AFTER a discovery of BSE within the country
Now who is the bigger risk OLDTIMER :wink:
A
Anonymous
Guest
Tam-I'm not going to argue what Leo said or you think he said or you fantasize he said in one of your nightly sweats-- or who has the best test or the worst test- or who's scientists smile is nicer as you want to.... :roll:
You have 10 positives connected to Canada dating back to 1993 (14 years- many of that time which BSE was circulating and spreading while you still did minimal testing)
USDA says you will find them for 20 more years....
You have 4 POST feedbans- 1 of which was only 4 years old when found last year.....
Your herd is 1/7th the size of the US- and the US has still not found any US origin typical cases- just 2 atypical--Both of which were born PRE feedban....
Canada's risk factor is several 100 times more than the US's......Even a grade school kid can see that from the known figures....
You have 10 positives connected to Canada dating back to 1993 (14 years- many of that time which BSE was circulating and spreading while you still did minimal testing)
USDA says you will find them for 20 more years....
You have 4 POST feedbans- 1 of which was only 4 years old when found last year.....
Your herd is 1/7th the size of the US- and the US has still not found any US origin typical cases- just 2 atypical--Both of which were born PRE feedban....
Canada's risk factor is several 100 times more than the US's......Even a grade school kid can see that from the known figures....
Are you trying to tell me I didn't hear Leo say "Canada still processes downers and the US doesn't" at the ICON meeting that was broadcast over the internet. :shock:
Oldtimer when a Foreign country does a true risk assessment do they only look at the number of positive test results?
Do they not look at the testing protocol that provided those test results?
What is tested?
How many were tested?
What test was used?
What confirmatory test was?
Who did the Confirmatory test?
How long before the right confirmatory test was used? :wink:
When they do a true risk assessment do they not look at the safeguards implemented within the country?
Feed ban including known loopholes?
Compliance to feed bans that can be supported by documented records not guess work and hearsay? :wink:
When doing a true risk assessment do they not look at the abilities of the industry to protect themselves and their consumers?
Do they have firewalls in place to prevent tainted product from entering their food chain?
Has the industry followed rules and regs when dealing with the SRM removal?
Does the industry have the ability to find and deal with BSE cases in a TIMELY MANNER?
Does the industry know what BONELESS means when exporting Boneless meat? :wink:
There is a lot more to a risk assessment than how many positive cattle you find. The problem with you and R-CALF is, you look at one puzzle piece and go screaming to the media and a friendly Federal Court Judge . Thank God when the media, consumers and the Appeal Court judges are shown the WHOLE PUZZLE they see you are not a creditable source of information. :wink:
And Oldtimer the USDA kind of cut the risk of you ever finding another BSE positive cow that would affect your chances at a more favorable Risk Rating didn't they? Testing half as many in a herd 7 to 8 times the size you should be ashamed Oldtimer not gloating. :roll:
Oldtimer when a Foreign country does a true risk assessment do they only look at the number of positive test results?
Do they not look at the testing protocol that provided those test results?
What is tested?
How many were tested?
What test was used?
What confirmatory test was?
Who did the Confirmatory test?
How long before the right confirmatory test was used? :wink:
When they do a true risk assessment do they not look at the safeguards implemented within the country?
Feed ban including known loopholes?
Compliance to feed bans that can be supported by documented records not guess work and hearsay? :wink:
When doing a true risk assessment do they not look at the abilities of the industry to protect themselves and their consumers?
Do they have firewalls in place to prevent tainted product from entering their food chain?
Has the industry followed rules and regs when dealing with the SRM removal?
Does the industry have the ability to find and deal with BSE cases in a TIMELY MANNER?
Does the industry know what BONELESS means when exporting Boneless meat? :wink:
There is a lot more to a risk assessment than how many positive cattle you find. The problem with you and R-CALF is, you look at one puzzle piece and go screaming to the media and a friendly Federal Court Judge . Thank God when the media, consumers and the Appeal Court judges are shown the WHOLE PUZZLE they see you are not a creditable source of information. :wink:
And Oldtimer the USDA kind of cut the risk of you ever finding another BSE positive cow that would affect your chances at a more favorable Risk Rating didn't they? Testing half as many in a herd 7 to 8 times the size you should be ashamed Oldtimer not gloating. :roll:
cowsense
Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
OT- It's not the number of cases; it's the preventive measures that decide the risk factor and assessment; Canada is far ahead of your country in every way from feed ban implementation to traceability. Sure we may find more cases........ but can you definately say that the US won't find more native cases of BSE???
cowsense said:
I can just see cowcents fighting his case infront of the OIE board.............
OIE board ............ok Mr cowcents why are you here today?
cowcents..........members of the OIE board I am here today to ask that you grant us canuckle heads a more favorable BSE risk profile.
OIE board..........ok Mr cowcents could you explain in detail why the board should grant this favorable profile ?
cowcents...........well er uh ahg umm lemme see we er uh
OIE board......Mr cowcents our sources tell us canada has 4 confirmed BSE cases that are post feed ban.
cowcents .....er uh ahhggg uh well cough cough er.....
OIE board........I also see where you have several more positive cases that are suspect post but classified pre.
cowcents...... well um re uh aaaaaagggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh
OIE board...... Mr cowcents it is obvious you have a noncompliance history in regards to feed bans/safety issues,would you kindly remove your canuckle head ash from the chamber...................
good luck
Mike
Well-known member
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
mwj
Well-known member
Nice post Haymaker 8) Care to paint us the picture of OT going in front of the same board with all of his ''proof :wink: '' that he brings to this board. If you are to busy today I can check back later 8)
cowsense
Well-known member
HAY MAKER said:cowsense said:
I can just see cowcents fighting his case infront of the OIE board.............
OIE board ............ok Mr cowcents why are you here today?
cowcents..........members of the OIE board I am here today to ask that you grant us canuckle heads a more favorable BSE risk profile.
OIE board..........ok Mr cowcents could you explain in detail why the board should grant this favorable profile ?
cowcents...........well er uh ahg umm lemme see we er uh
OIE board......Mr cowcents our sources tell us canada has 4 confirmed BSE cases that are post feed ban.
cowcents .....er uh ahhggg uh well cough cough er.....
OIE board........I also see where you have several more positive cases that are suspect post but classified pre.
cowcents...... well um re uh aaaaaagggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh
OIE board...... Mr cowcents it is obvious you have a noncompliance history in regards to feed bans/safety issues,would you kindly remove your canuckle head ash from the chamber...................
good luck
Haymaker.......I was told not too long ago " THERE'S OPINION AND THAN THERE'S INFORMED OPINION"! I believe common sense and science will prove that I presented the INFORMED OPINION!
OH and good luck with the scare tactics........you're coming up with the short end of the stick these days!
And neither you or OT dared to comment on the odds of finding more native born BSE positives in the American cowherd in the future!
Oh PLEEEAAASSSEEEE let me mwj
I see it going something like this
OIE board ............ok Oldtimer and Haymaker why are you here today?
Oldtimer ......... members of the OIE board we are here today to ask that you grant the much superior US cattle industry a more favorable BSE risk profile.
OIE board..........ok could the two of you explain in detail why the board should grant this more favorable profile ?
Oldtimer .......(Standing with a puffed out chest) Well you see I have years of looking at the evidence due to the fact I was in law enforcement in small town Montana for thirty years, and this is the way I read it. The US can't possibly be in the same risk category as Canada they have had 4 post feed ban positives. You have to grant us a more favorable risk category as we just can't be the same as Canada
OIE board...... What is your story Haymaker?
Haymaker .......( surprised they asked him as he was just there for support, to cheer Oldtimer on) Well I agree with my friend here we just can't be in the same risk category. you see our beef organization leader said so!!!
OIE board....... Who is you Beef organization
Oldtimer....... R-CALF USA ( again with the puffed out chest and proud as a peacock look on his face)
OIE board ....... Isn't that the organization that misreads the meaning of our guidelines. (Puzzled look on faces)
Oldtimer ....... (Clearing his throat) Well well lets get back to the reason we are here today. The evidence is we have only had two pre feed ban cases and Canada has had 4 post feed ban cases. That should tell you all that the US is less of a risk.
Haymaker..... And besides if Canada hadn't of put the spot light on North America nobody would have known about our two cases. (Double winking at all the board)
OIE board....... What do you mean Haymaker? ( intently looking for an explanation)
Oldtimer ...... ( worried look on face) can we get back to the fact Canada has had four post feed ban positives and we can't possibly be as large of a risk as they are.
OIE board...... ( shuffleing papers) I see by your letter here you claim to have 99% compliance to your feed ban and that you have claimed it effectively protected you from the spread of BSE. Do you have records to prove what you say?
Oldtimer...... Well our testing hasn't found any post feed ban positives has it, thats proof enough for us. (Oldtimer then winks at Haymaker)
Haymaker ........besides I read in the Washington post that we have the safest beef in the world raised to the highest Standards in the World, that has to tell you something doesn't it?( Haymaker winks back at Oldtimer)
One board member whispers to another board member..... Have you seen Broke Back Mountain (motioning with his eyes to Oldtimer and Haymaker. and snickers to himself)
OIE board......(Again shuffling papers) Well let us look at the investigations into your BSE cases we see here you never found the birthplace of the Alabama cow what do you have to say about that?
Oldtimer.....( with a all knowing look and thumbs poked into his suspenders) well you see not all states have a brand system but if it had happened in Montana I guarantee as a State Brand inspector we would have had the producer's name in no more than 6 to 8 weeks using our system that has never failed us in the past 100 years.
OIE board..... (Turning their attention to Haymaker who is distracted by the fan on the ceiling ) Since Haymaker is from Texas can you explain about the BSE cow in that State.
Haymaker........( quickly bring his one eye back down to look at the board while keeping the other on the spinning fan) which one do you mean your honor?
OIE board....... Do you mean there was more than one Texas cow with BSE? (looking puzzled and shuffling the papers in front of them)
Haymaker ....... (bringing both eyes to attention) not by our testing results thanks to the quick thinking of a Texan that discretely made a targeted cow disappear before samples could be taken!!! ( said with a big grin of pleasure on his face and another wink in Oldtimers direction )
Oldtimer......(motioning for Haymaker to zip it about the first Texas cow) can we please get back to what our record shows.
OIE board......( more paper shuffling) We see here that after the USDA negotiated a boneless meat deal with Korea, Korea rejected your first shipment due to bone chips what do you have to say about that?
Oldtimer......(quietly says to Haymaker) I think Creekstone was just trying to get something on the record to use in their case against you know who. (then another wink exchanges between the two)
Second Board member back to first board member... I see what you mean (laughing under his breath)
OIE Board ...... What do you mean?
Oldtimer......( surprised look) Did I just say that out loud, ( trying to distract attention from his comment) Please can we get back to the fact Canada has found 4 post feed ban positives.
OIE board. (again more paper shuffling) We see Japan re-ban your beef Why?
Haymaker..... (With a wink to the board) I guess that is what you get for being nice and sending them a little something extra in their boxes for Christmas.
Oldtimer.......( elbowing Haymaker and giggling like a little girl) Please can we get a back to why we are here.
Haymaker .....( With a very sober face) If I could your honors I would like to add that the BSE the US has is not the deadly kind Canada has, ours is BSE LITE.
OIE board....... I think we have heard enough let use talk between ourselves. ( while Oldtimer and Haymaker leave the room High fiving each other and patting each other on the back the two board members bust out laughing)
OIE chairmen look at the two and ask Please explain your behavior, after they explain, the whole board has a good laugh and call Oldtimer and Haymaker back in.
OIE board...... Here are our recommendations to take back to your industry. (With a very sober look on face)
1. If you want to claim 99% compliance of an effective feed ban, have records that prove it, we don't rule on Hear say.
2. Just because your testing hasn't found more BSE doesn't mean your feed ban was effective, it could mean the spot light may not have been bright enough to stop all the cheating that Haymaker hinted to. So go back and test the animals we recommended years ago with the right testing protocol.
3. do us all a favor and get to work on a National ID system that works as your investigations have proven your hit and miss 100 year old Brand system is not good enough if you want to trade in the global marketplace.
4. Get all your packers together in one place and teach them what countries will except what and that boneless means boneless even when you are trying to get something on the record. Why should other countries except ban product when all you are doing is trying to discredit your regulatory agency.
5. Please tell your leader again that our guidelines are not written in stone step by step rules they are just Guideline. and more importantly we have never said that trade with BSE affect countries should be ban. We said after a complete risk assessment is done trade should resume under certain conditions.
Now this is for you Oldtimer since you have a background in law enforcement and are a Montana Brand inspector we have two requests of you.
1. Please call Nebraska and South Dakota and use your 30 years of experience and talk to the packer, trucker, sale barn operator, and feedlot guy and get the truth out of them even if it takes you all of a couple of hours. Stop harassing the Canadians for something that may turn out to have nothing to do with them.
2. The next request might take a bit longer but we trust you are as trustworthy and honest as your voters thought and will do all you can. It is to go back to Montana and find your fellow R-CALF member that is continually sending misleading attention grabbing headlines to the US Congressmen and Senators. As we are tired of repeatedly correcting the information he is trying to use to further R-CALFs protectionist agenda. Please start with pointing out to this poor mislead man that there is not one shred of evidence that proves CJD is caused by eating Beef.
Thank you both for bringing your request to us BUT since your answers and the US records does not give us any confidence in your system our final suggestion to you is go back to the US and don't come back until you can stop blaming others for your problems and have done something about updating your antiquated beef industry so you can trade in a global marketplace without risking others lives. ( which is followed by a group wink to the two Broke down cowboys)
Curtains close on Oldtimer and Haymaker with hats in hand walking from the board room whispering....... What the H*** do they know we are US beef producers and Leo told us we have the safest beef in the world raised to the highest standards in the world, besides our friend Sandhusker has gone on recorded defending Leo's comments about the US maintaining standards that would stop any risk of BSE being introduced into the US beef herd and risking US consumers. They both can't be wrong. ( at this point they take each other by the hand and disappear into the mountains before returning to the US)
How did I do :wink: :lol:
I see it going something like this
OIE board ............ok Oldtimer and Haymaker why are you here today?
Oldtimer ......... members of the OIE board we are here today to ask that you grant the much superior US cattle industry a more favorable BSE risk profile.
OIE board..........ok could the two of you explain in detail why the board should grant this more favorable profile ?
Oldtimer .......(Standing with a puffed out chest) Well you see I have years of looking at the evidence due to the fact I was in law enforcement in small town Montana for thirty years, and this is the way I read it. The US can't possibly be in the same risk category as Canada they have had 4 post feed ban positives. You have to grant us a more favorable risk category as we just can't be the same as Canada
OIE board...... What is your story Haymaker?
Haymaker .......( surprised they asked him as he was just there for support, to cheer Oldtimer on) Well I agree with my friend here we just can't be in the same risk category. you see our beef organization leader said so!!!
OIE board....... Who is you Beef organization
Oldtimer....... R-CALF USA ( again with the puffed out chest and proud as a peacock look on his face)
OIE board ....... Isn't that the organization that misreads the meaning of our guidelines. (Puzzled look on faces)
Oldtimer ....... (Clearing his throat) Well well lets get back to the reason we are here today. The evidence is we have only had two pre feed ban cases and Canada has had 4 post feed ban cases. That should tell you all that the US is less of a risk.
Haymaker..... And besides if Canada hadn't of put the spot light on North America nobody would have known about our two cases. (Double winking at all the board)
OIE board....... What do you mean Haymaker? ( intently looking for an explanation)
Oldtimer ...... ( worried look on face) can we get back to the fact Canada has had four post feed ban positives and we can't possibly be as large of a risk as they are.
OIE board...... ( shuffleing papers) I see by your letter here you claim to have 99% compliance to your feed ban and that you have claimed it effectively protected you from the spread of BSE. Do you have records to prove what you say?
Oldtimer...... Well our testing hasn't found any post feed ban positives has it, thats proof enough for us. (Oldtimer then winks at Haymaker)
Haymaker ........besides I read in the Washington post that we have the safest beef in the world raised to the highest Standards in the World, that has to tell you something doesn't it?( Haymaker winks back at Oldtimer)
One board member whispers to another board member..... Have you seen Broke Back Mountain (motioning with his eyes to Oldtimer and Haymaker. and snickers to himself)
OIE board......(Again shuffling papers) Well let us look at the investigations into your BSE cases we see here you never found the birthplace of the Alabama cow what do you have to say about that?
Oldtimer.....( with a all knowing look and thumbs poked into his suspenders) well you see not all states have a brand system but if it had happened in Montana I guarantee as a State Brand inspector we would have had the producer's name in no more than 6 to 8 weeks using our system that has never failed us in the past 100 years.
OIE board..... (Turning their attention to Haymaker who is distracted by the fan on the ceiling ) Since Haymaker is from Texas can you explain about the BSE cow in that State.
Haymaker........( quickly bring his one eye back down to look at the board while keeping the other on the spinning fan) which one do you mean your honor?
OIE board....... Do you mean there was more than one Texas cow with BSE? (looking puzzled and shuffling the papers in front of them)
Haymaker ....... (bringing both eyes to attention) not by our testing results thanks to the quick thinking of a Texan that discretely made a targeted cow disappear before samples could be taken!!! ( said with a big grin of pleasure on his face and another wink in Oldtimers direction )
Oldtimer......(motioning for Haymaker to zip it about the first Texas cow) can we please get back to what our record shows.
OIE board......( more paper shuffling) We see here that after the USDA negotiated a boneless meat deal with Korea, Korea rejected your first shipment due to bone chips what do you have to say about that?
Oldtimer......(quietly says to Haymaker) I think Creekstone was just trying to get something on the record to use in their case against you know who. (then another wink exchanges between the two)
Second Board member back to first board member... I see what you mean (laughing under his breath)
OIE Board ...... What do you mean?
Oldtimer......( surprised look) Did I just say that out loud, ( trying to distract attention from his comment) Please can we get back to the fact Canada has found 4 post feed ban positives.
OIE board. (again more paper shuffling) We see Japan re-ban your beef Why?
Haymaker..... (With a wink to the board) I guess that is what you get for being nice and sending them a little something extra in their boxes for Christmas.
Oldtimer.......( elbowing Haymaker and giggling like a little girl) Please can we get a back to why we are here.
Haymaker .....( With a very sober face) If I could your honors I would like to add that the BSE the US has is not the deadly kind Canada has, ours is BSE LITE.
OIE board....... I think we have heard enough let use talk between ourselves. ( while Oldtimer and Haymaker leave the room High fiving each other and patting each other on the back the two board members bust out laughing)
OIE chairmen look at the two and ask Please explain your behavior, after they explain, the whole board has a good laugh and call Oldtimer and Haymaker back in.
OIE board...... Here are our recommendations to take back to your industry. (With a very sober look on face)
1. If you want to claim 99% compliance of an effective feed ban, have records that prove it, we don't rule on Hear say.
2. Just because your testing hasn't found more BSE doesn't mean your feed ban was effective, it could mean the spot light may not have been bright enough to stop all the cheating that Haymaker hinted to. So go back and test the animals we recommended years ago with the right testing protocol.
3. do us all a favor and get to work on a National ID system that works as your investigations have proven your hit and miss 100 year old Brand system is not good enough if you want to trade in the global marketplace.
4. Get all your packers together in one place and teach them what countries will except what and that boneless means boneless even when you are trying to get something on the record. Why should other countries except ban product when all you are doing is trying to discredit your regulatory agency.
5. Please tell your leader again that our guidelines are not written in stone step by step rules they are just Guideline. and more importantly we have never said that trade with BSE affect countries should be ban. We said after a complete risk assessment is done trade should resume under certain conditions.
Now this is for you Oldtimer since you have a background in law enforcement and are a Montana Brand inspector we have two requests of you.
1. Please call Nebraska and South Dakota and use your 30 years of experience and talk to the packer, trucker, sale barn operator, and feedlot guy and get the truth out of them even if it takes you all of a couple of hours. Stop harassing the Canadians for something that may turn out to have nothing to do with them.
2. The next request might take a bit longer but we trust you are as trustworthy and honest as your voters thought and will do all you can. It is to go back to Montana and find your fellow R-CALF member that is continually sending misleading attention grabbing headlines to the US Congressmen and Senators. As we are tired of repeatedly correcting the information he is trying to use to further R-CALFs protectionist agenda. Please start with pointing out to this poor mislead man that there is not one shred of evidence that proves CJD is caused by eating Beef.
Thank you both for bringing your request to us BUT since your answers and the US records does not give us any confidence in your system our final suggestion to you is go back to the US and don't come back until you can stop blaming others for your problems and have done something about updating your antiquated beef industry so you can trade in a global marketplace without risking others lives. ( which is followed by a group wink to the two Broke down cowboys)
Curtains close on Oldtimer and Haymaker with hats in hand walking from the board room whispering....... What the H*** do they know we are US beef producers and Leo told us we have the safest beef in the world raised to the highest standards in the world, besides our friend Sandhusker has gone on recorded defending Leo's comments about the US maintaining standards that would stop any risk of BSE being introduced into the US beef herd and risking US consumers. They both can't be wrong. ( at this point they take each other by the hand and disappear into the mountains before returning to the US)
How did I do :wink: :lol:
A
Anonymous
Guest
Hey Haymaker- Tams not only having sweaty fantasys about Bill and Leo at nite-- now she's fantasysizing about us old fogies in her daytime hot flash's... :shock: :lol: :lol:
Poor lady is definitely in need of some type of aid... :roll:
Sorry Tammy-- I gave up reading book link fiction back in grade school... :wink:
Poor lady is definitely in need of some type of aid... :roll:
Sorry Tammy-- I gave up reading book link fiction back in grade school... :wink:
Oldtimer said:Hey Haymaker- Tams not only having sweaty fantasys about Bill and Leo at nite-- now she's fantasysizing about us old fogies in her daytime hot flash's... :shock: :lol: :lol:
Poor lady is definitely in need of some type of aid... :roll:
Sorry Tammy-- I gave up reading book link fiction back in grade school... :wink:
Yes...........plus she had so many spelling errors in her post,I tried to use spell check so I could make sense of it, and it crashed my damn computer
I never can tell if it is really Miss Tam or her cross dressing partner,Mr Tam,one of them can spell and the other can't,I am beginning to wonder about this flipping and flopping they do ................good luck
PS besides dont take her posts too seriously,she is still mad at me for never acknowledging her promiscuous "PMs"
Oldtimer said:Hey Haymaker- Tams not only having sweaty fantasys about Bill and Leo at nite-- now she's fantasysizing about us old fogies in her daytime hot flash's... :shock: :lol: :lol:
Poor lady is definitely in need of some type of aid... :roll:
Sorry Tammy-- I gave up reading book link fiction back in grade school... :wink:
Hey Oldtimer there is one part in the original movie where the one cowboy goes to Mexico for a little side action. Aren't you worried about Haymakers trips to see the Senoritas. Is it really the ladies he's going to see? :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
A
Anonymous
Guest
HAY MAKER said:Oldtimer said:Hey Haymaker- Tams not only having sweaty fantasys about Bill and Leo at nite-- now she's fantasysizing about us old fogies in her daytime hot flash's... :shock: :lol: :lol:
Poor lady is definitely in need of some type of aid... :roll:
Sorry Tammy-- I gave up reading book link fiction back in grade school... :wink:
Yes...........plus she had so many spelling errors in her post,I tried to use spell check so I could make sense of it, and it crashed my damn computer
I never can tell if it is really Miss Tam or her cross dressing partner,Mr Tam,one of them can spell and the other can't,I am beginning to wonder about this flipping and flopping they do ................good luck
PS besides dont take her posts too seriously,she is still mad at me for never acknowledging her promiscuous "PMs"
I Didn't even read it all Haymaker-- pretty well sums up the state of the Canadian cattle industry, when they have to result to fiction and fantasyzing to make it sound acceptable...... :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol:
But remember Tam thinks its OK for Packer/retailers to use FRAUD as a tool to market her beef as long as she makes a buck more too.....Crooked as a dogs hind leg...
Oldtimer said:HAY MAKER said:Oldtimer said:Hey Haymaker- Tams not only having sweaty fantasys about Bill and Leo at nite-- now she's fantasysizing about us old fogies in her daytime hot flash's... :shock: :lol: :lol:
Poor lady is definitely in need of some type of aid... :roll:
Sorry Tammy-- I gave up reading book link fiction back in grade school... :wink:
Yes...........plus she had so many spelling errors in her post,I tried to use spell check so I could make sense of it, and it crashed my damn computer
I never can tell if it is really Miss Tam or her cross dressing partner,Mr Tam,one of them can spell and the other can't,I am beginning to wonder about this flipping and flopping they do ................good luck
PS besides dont take her posts too seriously,she is still mad at me for never acknowledging her promiscuous "PMs"
I Didn't even read it all Haymaker-- pretty well sums up the state of the Canadian cattle industry, when they have to result to fiction and fantasyzing to make it sound acceptable...... :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol:
But remember Tam thinks its OK for Packer/retailers to use FRAUD as a tool to market her beef as long as she makes a buck more too.....Crooked as a dogs hind leg...
This coming from a retired law enforcement officer that looks at one puzzle piece and figures he knows what the whole picture is. Add to that the same man that knowingly spreads misinformed crap rumors to his congressmen to muddy the waters of international trade, And is willing to over look his local butchers action as he has to compete with the BIG BOYS . :roll:
BTW Haymaker started the fiction so that kind of sums up how much you pay attention Deputy Dog. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: