USFW agent under fire in South Dakota

[SJ]

Happy--Sportsman pay there own way and pay for conservation, since 1937 over 1 billion dollars has been collected from Pittman/Robertson funding!

You are right!! Ya know I remember once I bought a box of 22 shells, and a tent and sleeping bag. If the private property payment for the use thier property is comaraderie and thinning out a few deer, we can just meet on the public property, you can bring your year old antelope salami, I'll bring the coffee (caffeine free). We can ALL hunt the property we sportsmen pay our own way on and have a great time. I promise I won't complain. I am happy are you?

 

[P Joe]

This has been a good thread and the only thing I am certain about is that we will agree to disagree.

Always enjoy a good discussion.

Agree

 

[P Joe]

Is road hunting legal in SD? It is easily one of the most scurvy, irresponsible, and dangerous ways to hunt. In Kansas road hunter = POACHER.

By the by, the US is not a democracy, but rather a republic. What's the difference? In a democracy its easier for the majority to tyranize the minority, and this minority of SD ranchers is being tyranized by an envious and greedy majority. I pity the noble SD ranchers that are cursed with a tyranizing majority of East River Bob LaFollette/Sam Gompers communal, antiproperty rights COMMIES.

First, What is meant by king's quarry? Well US common law comes from English common law in which all wild game belonged to the king. Our social contract framers rebuked so many of the king's laws, but hadn't the foresight to consider what they'd have thought preposterous - private property owners being forced to sustain wildlife for the common good with no compensation. So, now we have most of the wildlife sustenance being afforded by a small overtaxed minority. Just because there isn't a special bill of rights provision prohibiting such a taking doesn't mean its constitutional. But it is because the majority says it is.

So Colorado has a system that rewards landowners for sustaining the state's wildlife. They attach about $100 fee to hunting liscenses that goes to landowners where game is hunted. Your tag has a ticket that can be redeemed from the state for this money - where you tag out gets the ticket.

Kansas has transferrable tags, and the income generated has helped sustain some good familys. The fear that all the free loading hhunters will be displaced is nonsense. Sure the out of state hunters pay alot of money. Local hunters can always hunt cleanup which really requires great hunting skill. The spike bucks, close basket rack, and other freaks need culled and provide free local hunting for skilled sportsmen. The good old days of freeloading hunting went out with low taxes.


All this talk about fee hunting really begs the issue. The SD lockout is simply all that honest noble people have to protect property rights. I am an objective onlooker, and I admire the commitment to freedom.

You are a freaking LOON. Obviously you haven't the slightest clue on the heritage of SD pheasant hunting. I can't hardly follow half of the babble you just wrote. How stupid are you?? To think that out-of-staters should have more rights to the game IN THIS STATE then me is a dangerous idea. I own my land and pay my taxes and to Heck with you if you think I am going to play 'Clean Up". Come one LB and SJ, even you have to disagree with this!

There is a reason that this county is ruled by majority. TO KEEP THE FREAKING LOONS LIKE YOU UNDER CONTROL.

 

[Happy go lucky]

SJ pitt/robertson funding is a good thing, even though you try and turn what I say! It was never setup to pay landowners a "tresspass fee" or to give landowners money for access to hunt. It has and does help landowners that want to better their ground with sound conservation practices and give back to the land.

SJ so only you pay for the county road maintance? Or all people of the county? Does your county recieve any state funding? If they do those road ditches are owned by all who live in your state correct?


If the private property payment for the use thier property is comaraderie and thinning out a few deer, we can just meet on the public property, you can bring your year old antelope salami, I'll bring the coffee (caffeine free). We can ALL hunt the property we sportsmen pay our own way on and have a great time. I promise I won't complain. I am happy are you?

Depends are you going to try and charge me for hunting that public ground? Another tatic that some have tried in the past I believe a friend told me about in SD?

So that is where it is at for you? Anyone who is an honest sportsman and wants to hunt needs to flip the bill fold out? If that catches on to the degree "some" want I will bet you in years to come wildlife control will get very exspensive for all tax payers. Half or better of the hunting community is over 35 years of age and getting older and the replacement of that is not 1-1, more like for every 10 hunters lost it gets replaced at 6 people. You can play it anyway you want, but to go to majority pay to hunt will take that 6 factor replacement and knock it down to 3-4! If not lower, meaning more taxes, as wildlife will always need controlled that is a fact.
Good day SJ

 

[P Joe]

SJ so only you pay for the county road maintance? Or all people of the county? Does your county recieve any state funding? If they do those road ditches are owned by all who live in your state correct?

Not for sure of where SJ lives, but where I live, everyone in the county pays for county roads. Then you have your township within the county, and they have a tax and pay for the smaller roads yet that are township roads.

With the concern of owning and paying taxes on the right-of-way. EVERYONE that ownes any land, does this. From the people in the city, to the rancher on the prairie. If a road passes thru on your land, you own and pay taxes on the ditch, sidewalk, whatever it may be.

 

[SJ]

Happy--Anyone who is an honest sportsman and wants to hunt needs to flip the bill fold out?

Happy that is something you would have to take up with your outfitter, GF&P.

My price is GF&P asking permission to enter.

 

[Brad S]

SJ, we're just like you, the landowner on one side owns up to the middle of the road - the other side land owner owns to the middle of the road. We're deeded and taxed on land on which the county can take an easement. Where I live a legal road hunter must have written permission from adjoining landowners on both sides of the road - more accurately written permission from both landowners on which the road easement sets.

 

[SJ]

Brad S. I believe it is that way here. Although road hunting for birds is allowed here and doesn't require permission. Road hunting is dangerous but evidently the money generated from it is substantial.

 

[SJ]

Happy--SJ pitt/robertson funding is a good thing, even though you try and turn what I say! It was never setup to pay landowners a "tresspass fee" or to give landowners money for access to hunt. It has and does help landowners that want to better their ground with sound conservation practices and give back to the land.

There is no such thing as a trespass fee. Trespass is illegal.

 

[P Joe]

Brad S. I believe it is that way here. Although road hunting for birds is allowed here and doesn't require permission. Road hunting is dangerous but evidently the money generated from it is substantial.

For big game, such as deer, antelope, elk, you CANNOT shoot from the road what-so-ever. It is considered poaching. They'll take you gun, deer and $2000 from you if you get caught.

However, on small game such as pheasant, geese, and ducks, it is perfectly legal to shoot as long as the game took flight from the right-of-way, or you shoot at said game as they are directly over the right-of-way.

Please show me some facts to where "road hunting is dangerous" or how any substantial amont of money is gernerated!

 

[Brad S]

Never discount the influence of lliscensing fees on game harvest laws. That's the way the ball rolls.

Road hunting is dangerous because there are conflicting purposes for a small strip of land. No one should hunt arround traffic, and traffic is the domain of roads. The scarcer the traffic, the less cognisant of traffic the shooter gets. Furthermore road hunting is just wrong and imoral because it is hunting on private property where an easement exists for a road. Would road hunters suggest there is a fundamental distinction between hunting on a road and setting up a hobo camp on a road? I don't see it, just a different class of losers. Show me the proof of deaths and injury where hobo camps exist along roads.


As an extension of the entitlement road hunters rationalize "because the public built the road,' apply this same camel nose under the tent incrementalism to rails to trails projects. Wouldn't be "nuthin wrong" with woodstock hippie concerts on hiking trails. Show me the proof of deaths and injury where such exists.

 

[Northern Rancher]

You know maybe there aren't as many but there are pheasants in Saskatchewan-millions of geese and ducks and substantially fewer Padlock Gang members. a few guys in the south had a hissy fit over BSE and were rough on nonresidants for one fall but most realized how much money hunting injected into their rural economy and settled down. Head up north for some hunting-the padlocks and rhetoric will eventually rust and fade away.

 

[SJ]

Pjoe--As far as your question --Please show me some facts to where "road hunting is dangerous" or how any substantial amont of money is gernerated!

I have had two bad experiences with road hunting both of which could have caused major accidents. That is all I am basing my opinion on.

As far as you asking how any substantial amount of money is generated. I assumed you had to buy a license to ditch hunt. I also assumed by Happy's post below the majority of hunters do not pay to hunt. Would it be fair to say license sales, generate money?

Happy--You see alot of the road ditch issue comes from those that have paid to hunt and want to force the majority in a geoghrapic area to be forced into paying to hunt.

 

[publichunter]

I have come upon road hunters who have not made the best choices in how they were road hunting and could have created a wreck, but in perspective I have come upon farm machinery creating almost the same possible situation. Would it not be nice that during pheasant hunting seasonm that maybe people could anticipate road hunting activity, just like everyother person knows when it is harvest or planting time in South Dakota and drives accordianly. Instead of wanting to stop road hunting because it might create a hazard. South Dakota is a very small state, if we want to keep our way of life country and city and in between we all need to work together.

 

[P Joe]

Never discount the influence of lliscensing fees on game harvest laws. That's the way the ball rolls.

Road hunting is dangerous because there are conflicting purposes for a small strip of land. No one should hunt arround traffic, and traffic is the domain of roads. The scarcer the traffic, the less cognisant of traffic the shooter gets. Furthermore road hunting is just wrong and imoral because it is hunting on private property where an easement exists for a road. Would road hunters suggest there is a fundamental distinction between hunting on a road and setting up a hobo camp on a road? I don't see it, just a different class of losers. Show me the proof of deaths and injury where hobo camps exist along roads.

Again please show me where road hunting is any more dangerous than hunting in an open field?

As an extension of the entitlement road hunters rationalize "because the public built the road,' apply this same camel nose under the tent incrementalism to rails to trails projects. Wouldn't be "nuthin wrong" with woodstock hippie concerts on hiking trails. Show me the proof of deaths and injury where such exists.

I'll repeat myself. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE HERITAGE OF SD PHEASANT HUNTING???

 

[P Joe]

I have had two bad experiences with road hunting both of which could have caused major accidents. That is all I am basing my opinion on.

I agree, but my guess is they were not following the laws and guidelines for road hunting. I can post them for you if you wish. They take up a page in the hunting handbook. I have also had problems with coming over a hill into a herd of cattle that was being moved via the road to another pasture. There have also been run ins with farmers and their equipment either at night or during the day. Do we make these things illegal? No. WE need to hold the people "accountable" for their actions!

As far as you asking how any substantial amount of money is generated. I assumed you had to buy a license to ditch hunt. I also assumed by Happy's post below the majority of hunters do not pay to hunt. Would it be fair to say license sales, generate money?

No, I don't think it would be fair to say that. You would need a small game license to hunt pheasants, rabbits, ducks, or geese on any private or public property. I'm sure there are a few people that buy a license and just road hunt, but do you think that almost everyone hunts on either private or public land at least once during the 3 1/2 month season?

 

[Happy go lucky]

Brad S no one person owns the ditches in many states!

Road hunting is something that is enforced with many rules and regs, just as is all hunting, your going to have some that break the law, but the majority get by fine without the problems you dream up!

License sales are not a direct corrilation with road hunting, many out of state hunters are not paying that kind of money to go hunt the back roads of the midwest! License sales also go with populations, as if the population is way off for many species your going to sell less license.

SJ wrote:I have had two bad experiences with road hunting both of which could have caused major accidents. That is all I am basing my opinion on.

Please explain in detail?

The "tresspass fee" is a common term used by some who only allow people to hunt their property if paid by the person asking. Some will let all who ask as long as they are willing to spend the $$$$. With no reguard to the wildilfe only their pocket books. They make no gurantees as to the amount of game seen or harvested, just a set fee to walk their grounds.

BradS wrote:Never discount the influence of lliscensing fees on game harvest laws. That's the way the ball rolls.

Please explain these thoughts in detail?

 

[SJ]

Publichunter I will agree with you on the fact that farm machinery or just a slow driver can cause the same. I don't feel putting people's lives at more risk on the road by allowing road hunting (a recreation for a bird) is the right/ smart thing to do. When there are places available to hunt free. Life is not fair and it will never be equal.


Happy read publichunter he was able to figure it out without to many details. If you still want the details I will be more than happy to dig out my report as it was happening at about 10 minute intervals. (I try to never leave home without a tablet and pen, video camera, still camera and tape recorder. I may be obsessive but not sorry.)

Happy "trespass fee" may be a common term for you but if I were you I would change to "access fee" as ignorance of the law is no defense.

 

[Happy go lucky]

SJ I don't tresspass nor do I pay to hunt! I have plenty of people that know me and are happy to have me on their property. They knwo for me it isn't about the biggest rack, but the pursuit that is enjoying.

A video camera? I take it then those people broke the law when you seen them? Doesn't make it the norm and I would love to see published data showing more accidents from road hunting versus private/public lands. Also many people do hunt public/private still doesn't mean ethical hunters shouldn't have the ability to hunt a nice weedy ditch if they so choose to walk it. I also don't think trapping should be against the law in road ditches either, as a younger man I ran a nice road line for coons,mink,beaver and muskrat. Helping the farmers out with corn eating coons/beaver and keeping the muskrats from getting into stock dams and making them leak.

 

[Brad S]

Say again, is sombody equating using roadways for transport and road hunting? Really? I guess up is down and black is white. Honestly, road hunting is much more analagous to creating a hobo camp on the road, except the road hunting is more dangerous.

Like Happy (i think) said, good hunters don't need to road hunt because of established credentials as an honorable person, and the converse is my experiance - if one must road hunt they must be dishonorable.