SJ
Well-known member
Which is also beneficial to wildlife existence.
In the 40's and early 50's it was rare to even see a deer. After the pilots came home and put the predators in check is when deer and other wildlife came back into the area.
USFW agent under fire in South Dakota
- Thread starter Liberty Belle
- Start date
Which is also beneficial to wildlife existence.
In the 40's and early 50's it was rare to even see a deer. After the pilots came home and put the predators in check is when deer and other wildlife came back into the area.
Liberty Belle
Well-known member
100% of what our predator control pilots get paid comes from a local assessment from every livestock producer in the Multi-County Predator Control Board district.
No, I repeat NO, nada, taxpayer money goes to fund this program.
No. Not one thin dime. It is entirely funded by the livestock producers who tax themselves to pay for the program.
You need to update your data base or learn how to find accurate information. You've given yourself way more credit than you deserve. I just love it when you display your ignorance. And you seem to have quite a lot of it to display… :twisted:
Happy go lucky
Well-known member
SJ I agree it is benefical to wildlife, but you can't say we have way more deer now than at the turn of the century because of coyote control either, it is a part, but edge and not mono habitat, is a bigger key. Also having little in the way of winter kills and species adapting to human encroachment helps as well. CRP has been a big boon for many species of wildlife and again all tax payers help support this great program not just landowners by any means.
Look at large forest stands or large tracts of any one cover type or food source and you will have less ungulate species, break up the cover and food types and create the edge and then you have habitat that can sustain far more species of wildlife and larger numbers within those species as well.
Delta waterfowl has done some great research on how benefical removal of predators are when waterfowl species are in the nesting phase and how that attributes to the overall nesting success. It again is a part of the whole and without food,cover or water the nesting rate even with predator control suffers. It is a balance between many groups as to why and how we create more and sound wildlife numbers in the US that has been my point all along.
Look at large forest stands or large tracts of any one cover type or food source and you will have less ungulate species, break up the cover and food types and create the edge and then you have habitat that can sustain far more species of wildlife and larger numbers within those species as well.
Delta waterfowl has done some great research on how benefical removal of predators are when waterfowl species are in the nesting phase and how that attributes to the overall nesting success. It again is a part of the whole and without food,cover or water the nesting rate even with predator control suffers. It is a balance between many groups as to why and how we create more and sound wildlife numbers in the US that has been my point all along.
P Joe
Well-known member
SJ said:
Ok, I'm not going to get in a big arugment over this, but if you look out on SD GFP website, their is not one accident from road hunting. Sure, something probably did happen during that time, but not to the extent you guys are making it out to be. You are making a mountain out of a mole hill.
SJ, I would do some more calling if I were you. The biggest complaint from landowners is the hunters not following the 660 feet rule.
And road hunting is not a group of 1000 hunters walking ditches for miles on end. It is 2 guys driving down a country backroad, see a rooster and get out and shoot it. This is no different if you are driving along your pasture and stop to shoot a coyote.
If you have any facts otherwise, please post. I would be interested to read those links. But if I am correct, I would imagine you won't find much to support your argument.
And just a question but do you pay the business and residents of your local town to walk on the side walk??? Suppose that would be trespassing according to LB and Brad J's theory???
Happy go lucky
Well-known member
Actually many cities have rules and regs on camping on public streets or areas not designated as camping permitted areas. Many others limit the nights one can camp even in city parks to keep people from making even semi permanent residence's out of city parks.
Lb we will agree to disagree :roll:
Lb we will agree to disagree :roll:
P Joe
Well-known member
Liberty Belle said:
1st, why doesn't the lock out publish it's land of 4.3 million acres locked out? Since you continue to dodge that question, I'll take a stab at it.
Maybe because it isn't really 4.3?
Maybe because there are so many holes of land within the "4.3" that are open to hunting, that it would be counter productive to do so?
Maybe because ALL your neighbors don't agree with your actions either?
Maybe because, over half of your 'locked out' ranchers still allow hunting even though they claim "locked out"and it would be too embarrassing.
Weather it be them or their siblings or paid hunts, they allow hunting. Yes I understand that YOU are really Locked out and yes thats their choice to do so, but then how can THEY claim "locked out"?
I'll tell you why, because neighbors like you bully them into this "lockout" so you group looks big. So you can claim your 4.3, when really nothing ever changed for 2.2 million of those acres. Really, under your theory, I would be considered part of your 'lock out' as well, because I don't allow the general public to hunt my land.
2nd, like I said I don't care if you land is 'lock out'. It really doesn't bug me. You have your right to what you want to do. Still doesn't give you the right to impose your ideas on the rest of the state. I'm sure the hunters on the neighbors land appeciate what you do. After all, you have only improved the deer numbers for them. Deer move, they are not always on your land, and I would bet that some of those nice bucks have been shot over on the neighbors. :wink:
I don't care if I ever get to hunt out there again. I have plenty here in my own cozy part of the state. It was just nice to get away and bullsh!t with the ranchers on the other side of the state. But if your attitudes and ways are going to be so greedy and narrow minded, I won't miss it one bit.
Have you ever looked at the Deed to you property? You should read it sometime. I'm sure it won't change your mind on anything, but maybe it might bring some light to the subject for you. I for one would find it extremly funny if the government needed your little parcel of land back for something or another one day and sent you packing. :lol2:
But enough about this lock out. Lets agree to disagree on that subject and move on. Friends? :|
I hope that they do get Prieksat "canned", "tanked" "sent packing" or what ever. Maybe GFP will get a clue and decide to be a little more cooperative with us landowners.
SJ
Well-known member
Yes and so do you, I think they might call it a city sales tax. Some times when the city has something big coming into town, that draws people from outside, they double the price of the room which in turn brings in more city tax. I remember when my son-in-law was in the hospital in Rapid City and we were staying in a hotel, close to the hospital. We had been there 23 days and the rally was coming to town. We were told we would have to find other lodging. I asked if all the rooms were reserved for the rally they answered no but were sure that they could fill them. We could stay, but the room would have been over 250 dollars a night. We ate, filled with fuel, shopped and took our 2 year old grandson to many different things to entertain him for 23 days and we paid for all of them.
My son-in-law was very ill. Was it trespassing NO, I paid for my access. Do you want to talk about camaraderie.
I am still answering your other questions and will post them later.
SJ
Well-known member
I stated before I was basing my reason on my experiences. I never said anything happen I said it could have. It is just my opinion and you have yours which is fine. I am not going to road hunt and you choose to road hunt. I am fine with that. If you want my approval I can't give it. I am not arguing just stating an opinion.
GF&P will also tell you where Mountain lions are gotten but the hunter that got the lion might tell you otherwise, why do you suppose that is? GF&P will tell you that they are going to take your pet deer to a refuge area or at least away from your place and it will live happily ever after. Do you really think that is what they do? If a rancher called and said he had more than one mountain lion killing on his place they came out and took care of the problem do you think GF&P would put that on their website or in the paper? Why do you think that is? Is it wrong I don't know, maybe public fear or outrage is a factor? Have you ever had to shoot the family dog? I have, I don't like having to tell them and would rather tell them it ran away. I don't because my mother always told me that it took 10 lies to cover one and a 100 to cover the 10, my memory isn't that good but I will always remember the truth.
I was trying to find the handbook that addressed GF&P liability. It would make you think they are just going to take liability, when I asked GF&P-- if they would just pay a liability claim without going to court. They said probably not. Depending on what the liability claim is would determine probably whether the property owner would go to court or not. You see the property owner is paying for his legal counsel and the legal counsel against him and everyone else in that court room. You have a 50/50 chance of winning. It becomes a game of how much do you want to gamble, Hold them or fold them.
Okay I will, but don't property owners have a right to complain about the hunters not following the 660 feet rule. Is the 660 rule just a suggestion like policy?
You are right. But it is my pasture, the land that the ditch and road sits on, I pay the taxes and still share in the maintenance costs. I cannot in all the years that I have been here remember doing that. If I am on the road I am late getting somewhere. We don't usually check the pasture from the road but we do fence. To say it couldn't happen or never, can't say that.
I don't have any hard facts and never said I did, I am just using my common sense. If you were running an enterprise what facts would you publish?
Happy go lucky
Well-known member
SJ wrote:GF&P will also tell you where Mountain lions are gotten but the hunter that got the lion might tell you otherwise, why do you suppose that is? GF&P will tell you that they are going to take your pet deer to a refuge area or at least away from your place and it will live happily ever after. Do you really think that is what they do? If a rancher called and said he had more than one mountain lion killing on his place they came out and took care of the problem do you think GF&P would put that on their website or in the paper? Why do you think that is? Is it wrong I don't know, maybe public fear or outrage is a factor?
You can't be serious can you? Could it work the other way? The hunter not knowing or telling your game dept the wrong area? What would a wildlife biologist have to hide from the public on species location? You really have no trust of your game dept, I guess that is your business, but at least back it with some factual evidance.Wildlife Biologist for the most part are all about collecting data and having it true and factual, not about making it up or changing it, as that will serve no true purpose in finding out answers or true conclusions.
I mean come on SJ this took me 1 quick search to find this out and yet you think they are hiding something yet make available for all to see numbers killed,sex,age and location?
HUNTER SURVEYLARRY M. GIGLIOTTI, PH.D.SOUTH DAKOTA GAME, FISH AND PARKSSouth Dakota's first mountain lion season ended October 24, 2005, just 24 daysafter it's start after the fifth breading-aged female was harvested, meeting the safeguardharvest quota of five breading-aged females. The total harvest quota for the 2005 seasonwas 25 mountain lions. A total of 13 mountain lions were harvested (Table 1 and Figure1). About 57% of the license holders reported spending some time hunting for mountainlions. About 86% of the license holders that did not hunt listed the reasons as "seasonended before I had an opportunity to go lion hunting." About 6% bought a license butdid not intend to hunt and another 8% listed "other" reasons for not going lion hunting.Table 1. Mountain lion harvest information for the 2005 South Dakota mountain lionseason.ID NumberDate of HarvestSexEstimated AgeWeightLocation of HarvestBH-110/01/2005Female5-784 pounds7 miles west of SpearfishBH-210/02/2005Female2-3 93 pounds1 mile west of Custer StateParkBH-310/03/2005Male3 121 pounds 8 miles southwest of SpearfishBH-410/05/2005Male8-10 141 pounds3 miles west of Rapid CityBH-510/07/2005Male2 106 pounds11 miles south of SpearfishBH-610/08/2005Male2 104 pounds2 miles south of MysticBH-710/09/2005Female1.5 70 pounds2.5 miles west of PiedmontBH-810/12/2005Male2 98 pounds2 miles northwest ofRockervilleBH-910/15/2005Female1.5 68 pounds8 miles northwest of CusterBH-1010/18/2005Female5-6 91 pounds5 miles east of Hill CityBH-1110/19/2005Male2.5-3.5 97 pounds1.5 miles west of CusterBH-1210/20/2005Female2-3 86 pounds4.5 miles south of SturgisBH-1310/24/2005Female4-5 90 pounds8 miles south of Lead
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You can't be serious can you? Could it work the other way? The hunter not knowing or telling your game dept the wrong area? What would a wildlife biologist have to hide from the public on species location? You really have no trust of your game dept, I guess that is your business, but at least back it with some factual evidance.Wildlife Biologist for the most part are all about collecting data and having it true and factual, not about making it up or changing it, as that will serve no true purpose in finding out answers or true conclusions.
I mean come on SJ this took me 1 quick search to find this out and yet you think they are hiding something yet make available for all to see numbers killed,sex,age and location?
HUNTER SURVEYLARRY M. GIGLIOTTI, PH.D.SOUTH DAKOTA GAME, FISH AND PARKSSouth Dakota's first mountain lion season ended October 24, 2005, just 24 daysafter it's start after the fifth breading-aged female was harvested, meeting the safeguardharvest quota of five breading-aged females. The total harvest quota for the 2005 seasonwas 25 mountain lions. A total of 13 mountain lions were harvested (Table 1 and Figure1). About 57% of the license holders reported spending some time hunting for mountainlions. About 86% of the license holders that did not hunt listed the reasons as "seasonended before I had an opportunity to go lion hunting." About 6% bought a license butdid not intend to hunt and another 8% listed "other" reasons for not going lion hunting.Table 1. Mountain lion harvest information for the 2005 South Dakota mountain lionseason.ID NumberDate of HarvestSexEstimated AgeWeightLocation of HarvestBH-110/01/2005Female5-784 pounds7 miles west of SpearfishBH-210/02/2005Female2-3 93 pounds1 mile west of Custer StateParkBH-310/03/2005Male3 121 pounds 8 miles southwest of SpearfishBH-410/05/2005Male8-10 141 pounds3 miles west of Rapid CityBH-510/07/2005Male2 106 pounds11 miles south of SpearfishBH-610/08/2005Male2 104 pounds2 miles south of MysticBH-710/09/2005Female1.5 70 pounds2.5 miles west of PiedmontBH-810/12/2005Male2 98 pounds2 miles northwest ofRockervilleBH-910/15/2005Female1.5 68 pounds8 miles northwest of CusterBH-1010/18/2005Female5-6 91 pounds5 miles east of Hill CityBH-1110/19/2005Male2.5-3.5 97 pounds1.5 miles west of CusterBH-1210/20/2005Female2-3 86 pounds4.5 miles south of SturgisBH-1310/24/2005Female4-5 90 pounds8 miles south of Lead
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P Joe
Well-known member
SJ said:
Hate to burst your bubble but the last time I checked City sales tax didn't pay for sidewalks on private property. So if you take a stroll thru any neighborhod or by any business, you were walking on private property and the sidewalk was paid for privately!
P Joe
Well-known member
SJ said:
Thats fine and you respectful voice your opinion and seem to respect mine. It's the likes of Brad S who sit their on their high horse and preach how "dishonorable" it is for me to do something that it legal, legit, and probably will be for the next century in SD.
SJ said:
It's against the law to shoot within 660 feet of any occupied building or livestock. I think, don't quote me, it is a 200 fine and lose of license for a year. And For some reason most landowners don't know this and I don't understand why. I've turned in people before for shooting in my shelter belt next to the house. I make sure that I follow this rule myself, because I know what it is like to round-up 100 cattle and fix 1/4 mile of fence because of some idiot with a shotgun.
SJ said:
But the road is still public domain. If road hunters are not following the rules then call them in. You don't have to do anything more. By law that pickup should be parked on the shoulder of the road with the doors closed. By law they cannot shoot while there are vehicles close by. By law you CAN"T road hunt a state highway.
SJ said:
I know what you guys think of GFP, but they are suppose to by law keep a record of all hunting related accidents. You can look at all of 2006's at the link below. It is pretty detailed to what happened. I don't deny that some probably did happen that didn't get reported, but I have never seen a report about one on any of my local news stations or paper.
http://www.sdgfp.info/Wildlife/hunting/Safety/Incidents.htm
P Joe
Well-known member
Happy go lucky said:
Not to defend SJ or anything :shock: , but our GFP has been known to and has been caught in a few lies.
The mountain lion data, I personally don't believe they would make those things up and such, because so many other groups were watching them on that 1st season. As far as the hunter giving a wrong location, well maybe but I would guess it wasn't out of pure fraud. I've been thru the hills and sometimes you get mixed up to where you are at.
I can understand SJ's distrust with GFP on certain things, but I think sometimes it does go to far.
SJ
Well-known member
PJoe--I don't live in a bubble so don't worry about bursting it. I have been wrong before and I will be wrong again.
Southdakotahunter
Well-known member
You CAN hunt road right of ways on highways. I have ditch hunted geese before on US HWY 81 and been checked by GFP while doing so. No problem. Drive HYW 1804 north of Pierre sometime in the late fall...hunters line the road, i have also been checked there. Never run into the marshall in question tho. You have to be 660 feet away from a resident home or cattle. Thats it. If the owner gives you permission to be closer, thats fine also. The interstate system may be different. I have looked and looked in the book and find nothing anywhere about it however.
SJ
Well-known member
Happy –I don't know where or what facts I could give you that would make any difference as they would not be in a fact sheet or from someone with a badge or a person with initials.
The only thing that I can tell you or give you is instances or experiences. Here is one and you can take it for what it is worth (I am not a decorated person of any kind).
When the lockout started some people were in fear of retaliation if the list were given out. Some told of instances they had had with CO's, and some had sent or called in complaints. GF&P stated over and over, that no one could substantiate any of these rumors or allegations. I told people if you want your complaint filed don't call, don't send it regular mail. Send it registered with three witnesses and notarized. If you call, record it. They may still be able to round file it but if it is brought to court and you have the green slip stating it was sent, they are going to have to negate it and the three witnesses. When it was stated in the paper that I had said people were in fear of retaliation the Governor came out and as much as said wasn't true wouldn't happen.
Now if you read the Governors office order to "stand down" with US fish and wildlife, it stated that some sportsmen were in fear of repercussions, if they revealed who they were.
I won't ask who you believe?
I guess I will always believe there are honest people and dishonest people in all walks of life but I will never believe that a badge or initials or just because a person is a decorated person, eliminates them from all temptation.
We have been taught to believe those who are decorated and question those who are not.
The only thing that I can tell you or give you is instances or experiences. Here is one and you can take it for what it is worth (I am not a decorated person of any kind).
When the lockout started some people were in fear of retaliation if the list were given out. Some told of instances they had had with CO's, and some had sent or called in complaints. GF&P stated over and over, that no one could substantiate any of these rumors or allegations. I told people if you want your complaint filed don't call, don't send it regular mail. Send it registered with three witnesses and notarized. If you call, record it. They may still be able to round file it but if it is brought to court and you have the green slip stating it was sent, they are going to have to negate it and the three witnesses. When it was stated in the paper that I had said people were in fear of retaliation the Governor came out and as much as said wasn't true wouldn't happen.
Now if you read the Governors office order to "stand down" with US fish and wildlife, it stated that some sportsmen were in fear of repercussions, if they revealed who they were.
I won't ask who you believe?
I guess I will always believe there are honest people and dishonest people in all walks of life but I will never believe that a badge or initials or just because a person is a decorated person, eliminates them from all temptation.
We have been taught to believe those who are decorated and question those who are not.
P Joe
Well-known member
Southdakotahunter said:
I know you can for waterfowl, but is it legal for pheasants?
P Joe
Well-known member
SJ said:
Well, you were going on on such a nice rant, that I really didn't want to disturb it but couldn't resist. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Southdakotahunter
Well-known member
They are considered small game, and yes, its legal. as long as your 660 away. It can be dangerous for your dog tho, thats why i stick clear of it, i will on county hwys tho
Happy go lucky
Well-known member
SJ I'll have to take you at your word on that issue because I'm not there to know anything about Edited for LB: A strong armed stance when your lockout started.
I would say this though on the matter: If you guys locked your land out in response to GFP stances on issues, I would think it to be PR suicide for a dept to try and take aEdited for LB: strong armed stance and risk further opposition from even more landowners and other user groups, adding fuel to a small fire and making it larger in a hurry! I wouldn't see a dept doing such tatics at a time when they want less press on an issue that would effect their operating budget for sure if these alligations turned out to be factual?
You have some bad apples in all walks of life, but as I stated you can make the very,very small minority out to be the majority because the majority differs from your opinions and stances in life.
I would say this though on the matter: If you guys locked your land out in response to GFP stances on issues, I would think it to be PR suicide for a dept to try and take aEdited for LB: strong armed stance and risk further opposition from even more landowners and other user groups, adding fuel to a small fire and making it larger in a hurry! I wouldn't see a dept doing such tatics at a time when they want less press on an issue that would effect their operating budget for sure if these alligations turned out to be factual?
You have some bad apples in all walks of life, but as I stated you can make the very,very small minority out to be the majority because the majority differs from your opinions and stances in life.
Liberty Belle
Well-known member
Doggone it Happy, you sure are entertaining! 
:lol: :lol:
I was the one who talked about the guys teaching our new CO how to bull dog, not SJ. I'm guessing you have no idea what bull dogging even is, do you? :shock:
I have a pretty fair grasp of the English language, but for the life of me, I can't make heads nor tails of this! A bull dogging stance? :???: :cboy:
:lol: :lol: I was the one who talked about the guys teaching our new CO how to bull dog, not SJ. I'm guessing you have no idea what bull dogging even is, do you? :shock:
What the heck are you talking about here? :???:
I have a pretty fair grasp of the English language, but for the life of me, I can't make heads nor tails of this! A bull dogging stance? :???: :cboy:
