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USFW & GF&P story from RCJ

P Joe:I undersand that you feel it would have been common courtesy for the GF&P to call the sheriff before hand. I don't disagree with that. But I think you are combining your feeling towards GF&P to arrive at that judgement.

Here is a fair question and please give me a fair answer.

Would we be having this discussion IF
Prieksat had not called the sheriff.
Prieksat went to said pilots house.
Prieksat wrote a ticket, much like a speeding ticket to said pilot.
Pilot signed ticket and acknowlede to either pay fines or appear in court.
Prieksat left premises.
Sheriff was never informed of any thing.

And if that is still wrong then please answer this one

Is it ok for a highway partolman to write a speeding ticket on a county owned road without informing the sheriff??

And one more.

Can a sheriff write up a ticket and investigate a poaching violation?
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This started because USFW and GF&P abused their power and the rights of landowners. No, if that hadn't happened, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Unfortunately it did happen and we are still talking about it years after the fact because nothing has been done to remedy the situation.

I would assume that a highway patrolman, the sheriff, a game warden or any law enforcement officer can arrest a law breaker for breaking the law. For what it's worth, even you and I can make a citizens arrest. What does your question have to do with anything?

Why is it so important to you to whitewash the actions of these guys?
 
Liberty Belle said:
This started because USFW and GF&P abused their power and the rights of landowners.
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This line. This one right here is what I wanted to see typed. Prieksat abused his power. Go after him, the person. Don't hold the whole agency accoutable for his actions.

If you don't like a certain truck salesman, do you just not buy a truck alltogether or do you buy a truck from someone else??

I'm not whitewashing anything, just trying to get to the bottom of what some of you are really peeved off about.

Why is it so important to you to hold everyone accountable for the actions of a few?

How many GF&P officers did you catch on your land before all this went down? How many GF&P officers have you caught on you land afterwards? Did you yourself have any direct interaction with Prieksat?

If you answer none and no to these, then what really is your beef with GF&P??
 
Liberty Belle wrote:
This started because USFW and GF&P abused their power and the rights of landowners.
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P Joe: This line. This one right here is what I wanted to see typed. Prieksat abused his power. Go after him, the person. Don't hold the whole agency accoutable for his actions.

If you don't like a certain truck salesman, do you just not buy a truck alltogether or do you buy a truck from someone else??
P Joe, I'm gonna try one last time so pay attention! These agencies, USFW and GF&P need to be held accountable because it was their policies and their employees that caused these headaches.
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Those guys didn't just show up on their own to see how much damage they could cause to landowners and hunters, they were representing two wildlife agencies that have done NOTHING to get rid of these heavy-handed brutes and have done nothing to prevent this sort of thing from happening again.

It's not as if we can go to a different law enforcement agency like we would switch retailers if we didn't like the treatment we got at the first one!!

Get it through your head that we had no choice in how these matters were handled. They came to us, it's not like we went shopping for a different law enforcement officer!
I'm not whitewashing anything, just trying to get to the bottom of what some of you are really peeved off about.

Why is it so important to you to hold everyone accountable for the actions of a few?

How many GF&P officers did you catch on your land before all this went down? How many GF&P officers have you caught on you land afterwards? Did you yourself have any direct interaction with Prieksat?

If you answer none and no to these, then what really is your beef with GF&P??
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Good grief P Joe, we've answered every one of your questions, ad nauseam, and I'm beginning to realize that you either don't have the reading skills needed to process the information or you just don't want to.

Go back and read over the hundreds of posts dealing with the exact issue we're discussing and, just for the heck of it, see if you can figure it out on your own?
 
Dedicated to our FW & GF&P and their groupies
beating_a_dead_horse.jpg


What the FW & GF&P and their groupies do with a dead horse:

1. Buying a stronger whip.
2. Changing riders.
3. Say things like, "This is the way we have always ridden this horse."
4. Appointing a committee to study the horse.
5. Arranging to visit other sites to see how they ride dead horses.
6. Increasing the standards to ride dead horses.
7. Appointing a tiger team to revive the dead horse.
8. Creating a training session to increase our riding ability.
9. Comparing the state of dead horses in todays environment.
10. Change the requirements declaring that "This horse is not dead."
11. Hire contractors to ride the dead horse.
12. Harnessing several dead horses together for increased speed.
13. Declaring that "No horse is too dead to beat."
14. Providing additional funding to increase the horse's performance.
15. Do a Cost Analysis study to see if contractors can ride it cheaper.
16. Purchase a product to make dead horses run faster.
17. Declare the horse is "better, faster and cheaper" dead.
18. Form a quality circle to find uses for dead horses.
19. Revisit the performance requirements for horses.
20. Say this horse was procured with cost as an independent variable.
21. Promote the dead horse to a supervisory position.
 
SJ with all due respect, it really doesn't matter why 1,000's call the tip line, just that they do and they help law enforcement out! The local co's get many calls themselves, and many county's I'm familiar with any game/fishery law violations they hear about get referred to the local CO and they don't try and do their own investigation. Frankly they don't have the experiance or back ground for alot of these cases. No fault to the sheriff or his/her staff they just don't get the training needed to be effective at it.
 
there is a difference between a hp office writing a ticket for speeding, or a f&g officer writting a ticket for dui, those types of tickets are written because of an act that just happened!! not prior to but just happened!
he went and arrested the pilot after the fact based on testimony from a wittness, therefore after the fact!!!!!! (apples & oranges)
This was not prieksat's first slip shod handling of a case. a google search turned up several complaints about his arrogance aand gestopo style handing of other cases.
as stated before the local agency should have been notified and give the option to serve the warrent with the f & g officer IF for no other reason SAFETY!!!! (HIS OWN)
 
passin thru said:
Dedicated to our FW & GF&P and their groupies
beating_a_dead_horse.jpg


What the FW & GF&P and their groupies do with a dead horse:

1. Buying a stronger whip.
2. Changing riders.
3. Say things like, "This is the way we have always ridden this horse."
4. Appointing a committee to study the horse.
5. Arranging to visit other sites to see how they ride dead horses.
6. Increasing the standards to ride dead horses.
7. Appointing a tiger team to revive the dead horse.
8. Creating a training session to increase our riding ability.
9. Comparing the state of dead horses in todays environment.
10. Change the requirements declaring that "This horse is not dead."
11. Hire contractors to ride the dead horse.
12. Harnessing several dead horses together for increased speed.
13. Declaring that "No horse is too dead to beat."
14. Providing additional funding to increase the horse's performance.
15. Do a Cost Analysis study to see if contractors can ride it cheaper.
16. Purchase a product to make dead horses run faster.
17. Declare the horse is "better, faster and cheaper" dead.
18. Form a quality circle to find uses for dead horses.
19. Revisit the performance requirements for horses.
20. Say this horse was procured with cost as an independent variable.
21. Promote the dead horse to a supervisory position.
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:lol: :lol: :lol:

:o

:shock:

This is way to true, to be funny! :x
 
Liberty Belle said:
Good grief P Joe, we've answered every one of your questions, ad nauseam, and I'm beginning to realize that you either don't have the reading skills needed to process the information or you just don't want to.

Go back and read over the hundreds of posts dealing with the exact issue we're discussing and, just for the heck of it, see if you can figure it out on your own?[/b]
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I have yet to see you post that GF&P walked on "YOUR" land with out YOUR permission. I haven't seen any of you give an example. In fact the only thing I see is you complain about Prieksat and the open fields doctrine. When was the last time you were abused by GF&P?? Where you ever "directly" your self abused by GF&P.
 
I tried to google the SD lockout page seems to be missing?????? Whats up with that????????????????????

People loosing interest in the SD cause or what?
 
No actually the lockout is probably stronger than ever. We have found that using GF&P's favorite website "tonydeanoutdoors" and ranchernet have been quite effective. Tony Dean himself has closed more acres for the degenerate, property right whackos, subsidy sucking alternative farmers, which he lumps all into one category "swine", than anyone else.

The newspapers have been great also.
 
________________________________________
Happy--SJ with all due respect, it really doesn't matter why 1,000's call the tip line, just that they do and they help law enforcement out! The local co's get many calls themselves, and many county's I'm familiar with any game/fishery law violations they hear about get referred to the local CO and they don't try and do their own investigation. Frankly they don't have the experience or back ground for alot of these cases. No fault to the sheriff or his/her staff they just don't get the training needed to be effective at it.
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I agree it helps the Sheriff out, as in most instances, he would probably need a complaint signed or it would not be imperative for him to waste his time on speculation of a crime. I am also sure that the local Co's get many calls themselves as long as it is within working hours. You are right many game violations called into the Sheriffs office are turned over to GF&P by the Sheriff's as they are not time sensitive or of eminent danger to society. As far as experience or background you are probably right their also, the sheriff probably doesn't know what kind of gun is "legal" to put a deer out of its misery, what to do with the person who is transporting wild meat without a permit, or picking up road kill (without a permit). He probably doesn't carry the kit needed to take a sample, of a hot dish or to see if a person had eaten wild meat and had not had a movement before leaving home and is transporting wild meat without a transport permit. Just stopping people carrying packages of meat, testing it to see if it is wild or maybe the person would come clean during the act and tell you it was wild meat, then you would have ticket them, they would ultimately go to court, be fined and possibly have to do jail time, that all takes time. I agree,No fault to the sheriff or his/her staff they just don't get the training needed to be effective at it.


The GF&P laws are probably under lock and key, making it impossible for a lay person (sheriff) to access them.


I agree with you on all points.
 
SJ I detected a bit of sarcasim on your behalf? You see widlife laws are on the books for a reason wouldn't you agree? It is easier to look the other way or feel as some do when you have high populations of wild game, problem is there is a BIG market for wild game goods and if slackened up, the numbers combined with other factors could turn in a hurray. Not to mention pure wanton waste of a resource.

I ask you to take a look on EBay at what deer antlers bring and what would happen if the laws where loosened up. The people want these laws and that is why they are on the books. You adn I can debate the finer points of license allotments or lack thereof, but the laws are there for the betterment of all.

I suppose we could do away with some laws like; lead for waterfowl hunting, no possession or daily bag limits "the greedy get the most"? Allowing any and all firearms to be legal no matter if they are sufficant for the game or not, blaze orange who needs it right? Night hunting of big game, because those that work all day could get the spot light out and fill there big game tags, no one would worry or care? Baiting of deer and other game, because we are all so busy with our lives who would want to put in the time or enjoyment of the hunt, why we can just get them nice and fat on corn,soybeans and minerals and have it over with in the first 30 mintues of day break, oh wait we can go out at night and sit in our blinds with the 2 million candle power spotlight and have our big buck after we get off work in the fall I forgot.

Then we could get into all those silly fishing rules and regs and use electro shockers, gill nets, snagging of all game species. Then no one would have to call those pesky CO's for much except trespass and they would have no need to be on anyones property. THere you have we just solved all those conflicts. WE should have thought of this years back, the peace and harmony for all would be great! Oh wait except for the sportsman/woman they might just have a problem with all those pesky rules and regs being dropped or wouldn't they?

I as a sportsman want all to follow and obey the rules set forth by our governments both state and federal, that way everyone is on the same playing field and those with the dollars can't buy themselves exclusive rules or rights. The land can be owned or leased by whoever, but with wildlife we should all be on the same playing field when it comes to the pursuit of that wild game.
 
Happy

I understand business. I understand why we have to have tons of laws, rules and regulations. Law enforcement is big business and to support big business you need opportunity (laws, rules and regulations) for cash flow, to get cash flow you need law breakers. If wildlife law only consisted of 2 laws, limit and license, you would not be able to generate enough money to justify the job.

Do I think we should get rid of all law enforcement? No
 
SJ if you think 2 laws like limit and license would keep poaching,market hunting and slob hunting or fishing to a minimum then you have an over simplistic outlook that would be doomed to fail!!!!!

We aren't dealing with 1 species, that has 1 set of circumstances, the same habitat and same protection needs by any stretch of the imagination. You have many species that can handle hunting/fishing pressures and times of protection differ for all those species. Hunters like the opportunity to harvest many species and as long as we safe guard them to different degrees with varying rules and regs we can insure future populations of all those species.

You also have public input as well and what the general public likes to see happen with these species, your have landowner input and sportsman/woman input alot of people to keep all relatively happy don't you think? You think those 2 laws would serve the purpose of ALL species and ALL people who have a voice in widlife conservation? I sure don't by any means.

The easiest way if you so choose to limit the funding from rule violation citations would be to read the hunting and fishing book for your state and stay within side the law!!!! Many sportsman/woman do it every year. You also will see many times the rules and regs are liberialized to alow additional take of certain species. Snow geese for example, in the spring you can shoot as many as you like, use electronic calls and have more than 3 shells in your gun, the reason why you can do this is backed by science and not just people emotion, the science tells us we need a large take of these geese because they get to their nesting grounds eat themselves and other species out of house and home, having an impact on many other species,when they redirect the population then the laws will follow as such too.

Wildlife consevrvation is not static, it ebbs and flows with all variables that force the ebb and flow of many species.
 
Happy--The easiest way if you so choose to limit the funding from rule violation citations would be to read the hunting and fishing book for your state and stay within side the law!!!!
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I have read the hunting and fishing book for our state and by reading these books I find that many of the laws are a catch 22 in favor of GF&P. I have brought this up to many of the employees of our agency and they too can't argue that it could be taken 2 different ways. Many of the laws are ridiculous and unnecessary. In reality you never own the wildlife you hunt until it is flushed down the toilet. I could list many of these but then again you can read.

Have a good day we are ultimately going to agree to disagree. You seem to be in favor of strict government control and I believe in limited government control. You see I don't believe people would go headlong into destruction if it weren't for strict government control.
 

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