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Vaccine at room temp

Ours got shipped this year and was room temp when it got here...I sent it back. I wouldn't risk it myself. Especially the MLV
 
It really depends on what you were planning on using it on, but I'd try to figure out a way to use it before I just threw it out. Like Nicky mentioned, I'd be most concerned about the MLV part but there's probably still some good left in that, too. The killed factions are probably still okay, though.

I'd use it on something that I had in the chute that I hadn't planned on vaccinating. For example, I've used expired vaccines on cows that I hadn't planned on vaccinating, but was running through the chute just to pour. It doesn't have to be 100% for you to still get a little additional immunity out of it. Every little bit helps, is the way I look at it.

I wouldn't feel right using it on cattle that I was selling as having had two rounds of shots without giving two rounds of good vaccine, though. In a case like that, I'd use it as just an additional booster to cattle that I knew had already had two rounds of good vaccine.
 
Texan said:
It really depends on what you were planning on using it on, but I'd try to figure out a way to use it before I just threw it out. Like Nicky mentioned, I'd be most concerned about the MLV part but there's probably still some good left in that, too. The killed factions are probably still okay, though.

I'd use it on something that I had in the chute that I hadn't planned on vaccinating. For example, I've used expired vaccines on cows that I hadn't planned on vaccinating, but was running through the chute just to pour. It doesn't have to be 100% for you to still get a little additional immunity out of it. Every little bit helps, is the way I look at it.
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I don't really like this theory. If you have your cows on a good vaccinating plan you don't need to use expired or warm vaccine if they are already up to date. Also what if the certain parts of the vaccine are right on the border of working or not working you could start to build ressistance to a vaccine. Just like using old pour on or not enough will build ressistance of parasites to such a product. With the price of all beef from the calf to bulls I don't think taking a chance like this would be worth it. Not to mention I believe in my opinion it would be violating the label use.
 
well im pretty sick about this whole little deal. i've bought all my vaccines from an outfit in MT forever and really like doing business with them cause they're local outfit and specialize in livestock you name it and i like to support them. i had my wife pick up the vaccines and wormer. its about 2 hours from here and they didn't put any ice packs in with the vaccines and they sat in the entry room to the house and were out of the cooler in a double up paper grocery sack for about 10-12 hours total. they couldn't have got over 68 or 70 degrees tops. anyhow - its pretty much on me even tho they didn't put any ice packs in with them but its like burning up a 1000 dollar bill if i can't use them. they are what i was going to use for first go round of shots on the calves. oh i just get po'd thinking about it cause i know im going to have to drive back down there and buy them all over again plus another round for boosters. i suppose there is no way of testing to know for sure?
 
If it wasn't mixed up I would bet the Pyramid 5 with Presponse would be OK and the 7 way Somnus is probably OK. Heck they used to sell Blackleg from a display in the store window. :shock:
If you have the MLV mixed it loses some potency but it's not completely gone for a day or 2.

When Blackleg is opened it can become contaminated and grow in the bottle.

At least you didn't leave it on the dash of the truck in the hot sun.
 
3 M L & C said:
Texan said:
It really depends on what you were planning on using it on, but I'd try to figure out a way to use it before I just threw it out. Like Nicky mentioned, I'd be most concerned about the MLV part but there's probably still some good left in that, too. The killed factions are probably still okay, though.

I'd use it on something that I had in the chute that I hadn't planned on vaccinating. For example, I've used expired vaccines on cows that I hadn't planned on vaccinating, but was running through the chute just to pour. It doesn't have to be 100% for you to still get a little additional immunity out of it. Every little bit helps, is the way I look at it.
Click to expand...

I don't really like this theory. If you have your cows on a good vaccinating plan you don't need to use expired or warm vaccine if they are already up to date. Also what if the certain parts of the vaccine are right on the border of working or not working you could start to build ressistance to a vaccine. Just like using old pour on or not enough will build ressistance of parasites to such a product. With the price of all beef from the calf to bulls I don't think taking a chance like this would be worth it. Not to mention I believe in my opinion it would be violating the label use.
Click to expand...

When you bring up resistance, you're making the assumption that vaccines work like endectocides and antimicrobials - that they actually travel throughout the body to attack parasites/organisms and kill on their own. But, what they actually do is to stimulate the animal's own immune system to remember that virus/bacteria and to attack it and kill it when it is encountered. Every additional dose of vaccine works to enhance that memory of what they are supposed to attack - that's why we give annual boosters.

The vaccine doesn't travel throughout the body like the products that animals can develop resistance to. The vaccine stays fairly localized in lymph nodes close to the site of injection and immune cells are produced. When infection is encountered later, those same lymph nodes have circulated the immune cells throughout the body so they can fight infection wherever it is encountered. To put it simply, the vaccine 'grows' what it needs to within the body.

Just think for a minute - if it was possible for a less than optimum size dose of vaccine to create a resistance to the vaccine, wouldn't we have to be much more careful in dosing? Wouldn't it be absolutely essential that with a dose as low as 2 ml's that we not make any errors whatsoever? Would we give the same size dose to all animals? Would a 200 pound calf and a 2,000 pound bull both get a 2 ml shot? No, the vaccine stimulates the system within the animal to do the job it's supposed to do. That's why we don't sweat it when we give a 2 ml dose SQ and know that part of it will probably be pushed back out. We know that we are still getting something into that animal that will help its immune system to remember what it is supposed to do and that the animal's own immune system is basically 'growing' the cells it needs for response to challenges.

I agree with you about having cattle on a good vaccination program - I strongly encourage everyone to do that. But, I also realize that it is virtually impossible to achieve 100% immunity in a set of cattle - no matter how good the vaccination program. All animals respond differently to the same shot and in some cases, certain individuals don't respond with any immunity, whatsoever. Every time we can get additional vaccine into a set of cattle, we not only enhance the memory and immune response in those cattle that have already responded, but we also pick up some immunity in those individuals that did NOT respond previously.

As for labeling, when the pharmaceutical companies develop labels for vaccines, they have to balance functionality with practicality. They want to be sure that their product will work as advertised, but they also realize that if producers are going to use their product, it must be user friendly. They can't really recommend as many boosters as they would actually like because they realize that producers simply aren't going to run their cattle through the chute that many times in a year.

So, if you want to only use fresh vaccine that has been properly stored and handled, I'm all for it - that's what I do, as well. If I have too much MLV mixed up and don't use it, I squirt it out on the ground. I not only keep vaccine in coolers, I keep my syringes in coolers, too. I try to use MLV's within 30 minutes. I quit buying 50ds MLV's just to be sure I kept my vaccine fresh since I'm getting slower the older I get. So, I do everything that I can to store and handle vaccine properly. But, I also realize that once I have given cattle that properly stored and handled vaccine, if I have the opportunity to get something else into them before the next booster, I'm going to do that. And I'm going to know that I have picked up some additional immunity for my trouble - instead of just throwing it in the trash.

Anyway, good discussion. I agree with you completely about having a good vaccination program and taking care of the product. Great advice!
 
I wouldn't use them...

Especially not as the first round of vaccinations for naive calves. If we were talking about vaccinating mature 8 yr old cows who've been vaccinated every year since calves, and you were hard up for cash, I'd tell you it wouldn't hurt but probably won't benefit your animals this year.

That said, the only way I'd give a vaccine that has sat out to calves, is if I was weaning on the truck and letting someone else deal with the mess. Vaccination programs rely on "herd immunity" - meaning you're counting on disease staying out because 75-90% of animals are protected. In this case, you'll probably have an incredibly low (less than 5%) response rate, meaning the calves are unprotected.

Good post by Texan too.
 
milkmaid said:
I wouldn't use them...

Especially not as the first round of vaccinations for naive calves. If we were talking about vaccinating mature 8 yr old cows who've been vaccinated every year since calves, and you were hard up for cash, I'd tell you it wouldn't hurt but probably won't benefit your animals this year.

That said, the only way I'd give a vaccine that has sat out to calves, is if I was weaning on the truck and letting someone else deal with the mess. Vaccination programs rely on "herd immunity" - meaning you're counting on disease staying out because 75-90% of animals are protected. In this case, you'll probably have an incredibly low (less than 5%) response rate, meaning the calves are unprotected.

Good post by Texan too.
Click to expand...

well thats the whole reason i vaccinate - so the next guy down the line doesn't have a mess. the reason i was so po'd about it was that i knew i was going to buy them over again to do it right. anyhow - the guys i bought them from said they'd replace them since they didn't put any ice packs with them. i told the guy that you already had a lifetime customer with or without replacing them as i should have taken a cooler and never let it happen. anyhow - he sold two alley sections and a digital scale for his efforts and proved to me why i'll always give them my business.

no on to the next drama... deal with oil in the coolant on my f350. someone i don't think ford will be as generous after 321,000 miles.
 
I have an uncle who is a vet tell me that the expiration dates on vaccine are quite forgiving if they have been kept in the refrigerator at all times. As for using the stuff that was warm for that long, I think I'd pitch it and try to never let it happen again. Why risk having cattle you want to be covered running around with the chance of the disease getting to them because of bad vaccine?
 
river rat said:
I have an uncle who is a vet tell me that the expiration dates on vaccine are quite forgiving if they have been kept in the refrigerator at all times. As for using the stuff that was warm for that long, I think I'd pitch it and try to never let it happen again. Why risk having cattle you want to be covered running around with the chance of the disease getting to them because of bad vaccine?
Click to expand...

I was told that they gotta 'meet the specs'---that say it says '200 mg per cc' that it has to still have that strength on exp date, so probably has even more when just bought and don't go to -0- on expiration date---but might be a little weaker as it gets older.
 
Hereford76 said:
milkmaid said:
I wouldn't use them...

Especially not as the first round of vaccinations for naive calves. If we were talking about vaccinating mature 8 yr old cows who've been vaccinated every year since calves, and you were hard up for cash, I'd tell you it wouldn't hurt but probably won't benefit your animals this year.

That said, the only way I'd give a vaccine that has sat out to calves, is if I was weaning on the truck and letting someone else deal with the mess. Vaccination programs rely on "herd immunity" - meaning you're counting on disease staying out because 75-90% of animals are protected. In this case, you'll probably have an incredibly low (less than 5%) response rate, meaning the calves are unprotected.

Good post by Texan too.
Click to expand...

well thats the whole reason i vaccinate - so the next guy down the line doesn't have a mess. the reason i was so po'd about it was that i knew i was going to buy them over again to do it right. anyhow - the guys i bought them from said they'd replace them since they didn't put any ice packs with them. i told the guy that you already had a lifetime customer with or without replacing them as i should have taken a cooler and never let it happen. anyhow - he sold two alley sections and a digital scale for his efforts and proved to me why i'll always give them my business.

no on to the next drama... deal with oil in the coolant on my f350. someone i don't think ford will be as generous after 321,000 miles.
Click to expand...

On your ford, one possibility is hole in cylinder wall---and one of the back ones is notorious for poor circulation and developing pinholes--Roger @ The Parts Store in Great Falls also has a shop---told me on a rebuilt he always sleeves that hole, whether it needs it or not. Additives in anti freeze can lose their goodies----I try to keep the corrosion inhibitor up to strength in my diesels---might take a pint on initial dose, then several ounces a yr, depending on capacity of cooling system. Parts stores have it.
 
littlejoe said:
Hereford76 said:
milkmaid said:
I wouldn't use them...

Especially not as the first round of vaccinations for naive calves. If we were talking about vaccinating mature 8 yr old cows who've been vaccinated every year since calves, and you were hard up for cash, I'd tell you it wouldn't hurt but probably won't benefit your animals this year.

That said, the only way I'd give a vaccine that has sat out to calves, is if I was weaning on the truck and letting someone else deal with the mess. Vaccination programs rely on "herd immunity" - meaning you're counting on disease staying out because 75-90% of animals are protected. In this case, you'll probably have an incredibly low (less than 5%) response rate, meaning the calves are unprotected.

Good post by Texan too.
Click to expand...

well thats the whole reason i vaccinate - so the next guy down the line doesn't have a mess. the reason i was so po'd about it was that i knew i was going to buy them over again to do it right. anyhow - the guys i bought them from said they'd replace them since they didn't put any ice packs with them. i told the guy that you already had a lifetime customer with or without replacing them as i should have taken a cooler and never let it happen. anyhow - he sold two alley sections and a digital scale for his efforts and proved to me why i'll always give them my business.

no on to the next drama... deal with oil in the coolant on my f350. someone i don't think ford will be as generous after 321,000 miles.
Click to expand...

On your ford, one possibility is hole in cylinder wall---and one of the back ones is notorious for poor circulation and developing pinholes--Roger @ The Parts Store in Great Falls also has a shop---told me on a rebuilt he always sleeves that hole, whether it needs it or not. Additives in anti freeze can lose their goodies----I try to keep the corrosion inhibitor up to strength in my diesels---might take a pint on initial dose, then several ounces a yr, depending on capacity of cooling system. Parts stores have it.
Click to expand...

thanks for the tips littlejoe. hey always wanted to ask - do you know little harry from kiowa?
 

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