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Welsh Blacks

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Northern Rancher

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Master Kaiser I checked out your bulls at Vermillion this weekend-what are your plans for them. Number 44 caught my eye so now you know which one is the poorest lol. Was a crappy day for bull watching for sure-as you walk through some of the other breeds you kind of have to wonder at times. There were some real good calves but some were kind of 'YIKES' lol.
 
Tell me more about Welsh Balcks, please.
I studied them some when we were in W. Montana.
In fact, I can remember someone there had some of them.
We thought at the time that they were worthwhile cattle,
but I don't remember the particulars.

Hummmm, like an Angus, but smaller, with more hair?
Did I come even close?
 
Alwways was interested in welsh blacks and Galloways for some reason... Actuallly, most of the minor British breeds have interested me... I saw some British Whites that were just awesome critters and had an AI tech tell me that he had used some semen of one bull on a clients black commercial herd and the calves were something to write home about....
 
Welsh are actually not very small. Cows average 13-1400lbs, bulls 2000 and bigger. What they lack in frame height, they make up for in thickness and capacity - especially Randy's.

Galloways however are smaller. Thick, fleshy and lots of volume means they'll weigh up as good, but they are shorter in stature. And Randy's - as well as ours - are as good as the Welsh, meaning their a couple steps up from Angus. :p :p :p :p
 
PureCountry said:
Welsh are actually not very small. Cows average 13-1400lbs, bulls 2000 and bigger. What they lack in frame height, they make up for in thickness and capacity - especially Randy's.

Galloways however are smaller. Thick, fleshy and lots of volume means they'll weigh up as good, but they are shorter in stature. And Randy's - as well as ours - are as good as the Welsh, meaning their a couple steps up from Angus. :p :p :p :p
Using optimal EPD's in this scenario - In your opinion - how would high quality Anjou Mains cross with similar Welsh genes?

DOC HARRIS
 
Faster horses said:
DOC, what would be the point of that?

I thought you were to breed
'like to like' for predictibility purposes.
Faster horses - I am a little surprised at you for that question - have you perused carefully the MainAnjou breed in the last year? Carefully?

DOC HARRIS
 
I admit it. I have NOT. Just the idea in my mind of BIG cattle (Maines)
with huge birthweights bred to the Welsh Blacks didn't fit well in my mind.
Guess I should research before I speak. Ya think? :wink:

But I did ask it in the form of a question...not that I was sure...
 
Speaking as someone who has used Maine bulls (and "Maintainers") andl who lives next door to someone who breeds them I will say there is some huge variety in that breed. I had a bull that was actually rather short in stature, could disappear in a group of the bigger cows in the herd.. I sold him this past spring because he started getting way to nasty for my tastes... He was thick and long and weighed in at just over one ton as a 3 year old.. I would say he was no taller than a Red Fork Red Angus I have..

I also sold a calving ease Maine bull whose calves wer ouhly the same size as the Angus calves but grew a bit better.... He was nothing to write home about and was very, very lanky to tell the truth.. He was an emergency buy that I was glad to part with, also weighed in at about a ton at 3.5 but was 5-6 inches taller at the shoulder, not as thick but he had a very small head...

We had no more problems calving out some AI maines than we did calving out a VDAR angus bull that we also AIed to...Wouldn't have used either on heifers as we did have a couple 100+ pound calves that year... They would drag me around the pasture when I tried to tag them...

I wish I had my old computer working, I would post some pictures of the bulls, they were nice bulls, good temperment but started breaking down way to young for me..
 
IL Rancher, you have some Red Fork Red Angus bulls? Did you get
them at a Pharo sale?

The folks who started that herd, Roland and Beverly Landrey (parents
to Sherri Graves) were very close friends of ours. I loved their cattle.
They sold Galena to ABS many moons ago. Those cattle are the reason
Red Angus have always been my favorite.

John Robbins (Double Fork Red Angus) told me once that Roland
was going to sell his cows and he was going down to buy them.
He called the night before he was to leave and told Roland he was
coming the next day and was bringing someone with him. "Who are
you bringing?" was Rolands question. John told him he was bringing
Jim Leachman along. Roland said flatly, "My cows aren't for sale."
John told me, "I guess I had the wrong guy with me."

Roland is suffering from Alheizmers now. Sad to see.
 
I have one red fork Bull... Bought him as a yearling at a Pharo sale... Yikes.. spring of 04 I think... He was a big Pharo sale yearling, almost 1100 pounds at the sale date but a fram 4.3 I think. I bought him sight unseen for WAY TOO much money but I think he was worth it. He has a leg injury this year and I don't know if he will recover or not for next year.. I hope so... I had a bull that went down last summer and I thought would never heal up. Held him in a pen for a month and he started gettting better and he bred and went through the whole season this year just fine... Sometimes they recover and sometimes they don't I guess. I have some Semen that we got from him as a 1.5 year old that I am going to use this Spring..

Tried to buy some more at last falls sale but they went to high for where I sloted them... My wife talked to Cheri (I think it is Cheri and not Sherri but I know who you mean) and said she was a real neat and nice lady.. I think I was out being chased by an angry momma cow or getting
 
or getting?...you didn't finish...Where'd you go????

Yes, you are correct it is Cheri. Her sister, Wanda, and our daughter
are both barbers and have been the best of buddies since 1973.
I used to spell really good, but as with other things, it seems to be
leaving me...makes me so aggravated!!!!

Ken Graves dad, Norris, was/is one of the most colorful guys in
Johnson County. Tough, tough, tough and his hair and face was
as red as the dirt in that country. The epitome of the word "Cowboy."
 
Faster horses said:
I admit it. I have NOT. Just the idea in my mind of BIG cattle (Maines)
with huge birthweights bred to the Welsh Blacks didn't fit well in my mind.
Guess I should research before I speak. Ya think? :wink:

But I did ask it in the form of a question...not that I was sure...
FH - In the last few years Maines have moderated their frame scores and improved their Growth and Maternal Traits almost exponentially. They make a tremendous cross with Angus. Several of the breed associations have realized the 'error of their ways', so to speak, and have improved their product for the benefit of producers and consumers as well. Limmy's have instigated a "Docility" EPD to the point that modern and young Limousin's are more docile than they were even five years ago. If Breeder's and Producer's don't wake up and smell a 'bitter' cup of coffee, they will smell the aroma of being 'left behind' at the marketplace!

DOC HARRIS
 
Or getting something for my wife at the store... That is what I meant to finish with.. Sorry, phone rang and it was time to start baling.. Got our equipment in last week and we have been waiting for a green light from the guy we rent our ground to to get in there and bale the stalks... Didn't get much done tonight, first time ever really running that quipment but nothing broke... Yet.


The only problem with Maines Doc, and it is on easily or fairly easily avoided is that a lot of the animals are show animals and suffer from post legs and buck knees... But there are lots of good comercial ones out there as well if that is what you want... For a little calving ease in one I have heard that Cunia based bloodlines aren't too bad.
 
I didn't see anyone post this link, and I'm not sure if Randy frequents the boards other than Bull Session. This is the link to his cattle:

http://www.westernrancher.com/CelticCattle.html

He does have some links at the bottom of the page that lead to pages with more information. I've cut and pasted some of the assocation's "hard sell" stuff below:

--------------------------------
The Welsh Black Female

The Welsh Black cow truly exemplifies the breed's economic characteristics. Her performance earns the slogan "The Brood Cow Breed"

Welsh Blacks have been selected for milk production throughout history. Cows give an even flow of milk with 4% butterfat over long lactations enabling them to maximize the benefits of the crossbred calf.

Genetic fertility is envied and can be maintained at the standard 283 days under tough range conditions. Many heifers cycle under one year of age.

The quiet, easily handled cow is considered in her prime at 10 years. Some Canadian cows have produced 14 calves by 16 years of age and are still producing.

A mature cow weighs 1100 - 1400 pounds and has a large pelvic arch, resulting in very minimal calving difficulties even with the large beef-type terminal sires used in crossbreeding.

The Welsh Black cow has the ability to deliver a large calf easily, supply plenty of milk over a long lactation and breed back regularly with a minimum of management inputs. Lower costs for housing, supplemental feed, and labor enhance the Welsh Blacks economic advantage.

The Welsh Black Bull

Mature Welsh Bulls weigh from 1900 to 2500 pounds. Birth weights generally range from 70 to 90 pounds with 1 or 2 assists per 100 calvings.

Welsh Blacks are among the fastest growing of all British Breeds, both in rate of gain and weights for age, and their excellent feed conversion achieves this gaiin, more economically than most.

With a thick hide and dense hair coat, these cattle will feed and finish without the need to lay down a thick outer fat layer. They will slaughter at about a year of age in the 1100 - 1300 lb. range, with a lean carcass with excellent marbling and above average cutability.

For cross breeding the Welsh Black Bull offers a quick growing crossbred calf that will produce a quality carcass at today's preferred weight.

The most important contribution of the Welsh Bull is through his replacement heifers with immediate profitable improvement in any herd's reproductive performance. The black baldy and black percentage crosses have achieved an enviable record as the "near perfect" commercial brood cow. For the cow-calf man Welsh Black can show the way.
----------------------------------

On a personal note, I've never run Welsh Blacks, but I have every intention of giving them a go in my commercial herd. From what I've seen, especially of Randy's cattle, they are money makers in a northern environment. Lots of volume, easy keeping, decent growth. I plan to buy a few females and breed them to my PB Shorthorn bull. I suspect the resulting females will be nothing short of spectacular.

As far as the Maine cross goes, I haven't talked to anyone whose tried it, and I know Randy isn't a big fan of continentals so I'm not sure what he'd say. In my opinion though, all the traits that made Angus cross so well to Maines are echoed and amplified in the Welsh Black animals. I've been wrong before, once or twice, but I can't see how it would miss.

Rod
 
On feb 18/06 we bought a welsh bull on the team auction, a two year old, he arrived here on pei march 18.

Not having any work for him until june 1st, we put him in with two other limo bulls for company, they got along fine .

June 1st we turned him and one of the limo's with a bunch of cows (this is a 4 year old near twice the size of the welsh).

The little bugger wanted all the cows to himself and would lay a beating on the big limo anytime he tried to breed a cow, after a few days of this we pulled the welsh.

The welsh bull we bought will be three in the spring and still will not tip the scales at 1350 when do they mature?

still waiting to see his first calf

regards redcountry
________
herb scales
 

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