What brand of mineral do you feed?

[therancher]

run 240 cows in eastern iowa and only feed salt had 3 open cows last yr rest will calve in 60 days. With intensive grazing and a good clover program dont see that im giving up anything!

 

[Faster horses]

run 240 cows in eastern iowa and only feed salt had 3 open cows last yr rest will calve in 60 days. With intensive grazing and a good clover program dont see that im giving up anything!

Well, those cows could calve in 45 days, seriously. We have customers who consistenly get 85-90% breed up in the first heat cycle. But if you are satisfied
with your program, that's great.

 

[Faster horses]

I really don't care what a manufactorer pays for salt, if I pay 1200/ton for mineral I am still paying 1200/ton for the salt put in that mineral even if they only pay 50/ton. I truly believe that if she needs it she will consume it. I have fed several brands of mineral and different formulas within a brand as well as worked where they didn't ever feed mineral. Some had salt some did not. The only thing that I found to be cosistent was if you feed salt and mineral in 2 seperate bunks your cows will tell which they need, If you mix or cut mineral with salt it is costing you a lot of money to feed salt. I don't buy the taste line, I have seen cows licking stuff that is not in there diet when they are lacking something. As far as herd health, mineral might help at times of the year. Although nothing can replace good herd and pasture management. I mean clostral immunity and fresh pasture. I have documented numbers to back that up and can honestly say climate will not change the results. While seeing the difference in performance the mineral package stayed consistent.
No offense FH, I never take advice from someone that is selling a product. I do my research and get advice from someone who has nothing to gain from my ignorance. Then I go out and bid product. I used to work with a man that was paid salary by the company and was willing to show me documentation to prove it. He gave me good advice and his product was always reasonably priced, yes I would still bid it and he knew it. He never tried to pull the wool over my eyes and he kept my business,

I AM NOT SELLING A PRODUCT TO ANYONE ON THIS FORUM AND THAT IS A
FACT. I am offended that you would say that. I have helped many people so
they wouldn't go through what we did. Mineral enhances the colostrum and
therefore the calves are VIGOROUS when they are born.

Flying S, I will ask you this. Have you ever NOT doctored one calf and had
a 100% calf crop to sell? We have; and more than once.

My intent is to let people know what
I have learned over the past 20 years and I GET NOTHING for it, but the satisfaction of helping them. And not to brag, but I have helped a lot of people.
For no monetary reward. Period. Due to constant research information about
mineal is constantly changing. Like the phos that I mentioned. We try to stay
up with the latest research so we can continue to help producers. We have had
the opportunity to sell mineral when it wasn't necessary; as in the case of one
producer that thought he had coccidosis in some yearling heifers he got in to
AI. He started giving them grain and they got loose behind and he thought it
was cocci and it wasn't. He wanted one of our products for cocci and I discouraged him from buying it. I told him the grain had their rumen upset and
they would be fine when he turned them out. They were. I have to look at
myself in the mirror everyday and I would not knowingly sell someone something
they didn't need. I pride myself on that. Money is not my motivator; healthy
cattle are. That's why I will help someone miles away from where I live. I care!

What do you mean by this statement:
" I mean clostral immunity and fresh pasture. I have documented numbers to back that up and can honestly say climate will not change the results. While seeing the difference in performance the mineral package stayed consistent." I couldn't
quite understand.

edited to add: Mineral is not a magic bullet, and as you indicated it goes along
with good grass management. For one thing, the first rule of mineral is that
QUALITY AND QUANTITY OF FORAGE DICTATES MINERAL CONSUMPTION.

 

[Faster horses]

I will say BULL S*** to your company buying salt cheaper. I have brokered enough salt to know the prices. The only reason any mineral company would add any salt, is because its cheap, and the average cowman has been led to believe that salt must be in their mineral. A generic, one size fits all program is a sales persons dream, and for the most part does little for the individual cowman.
You can get most of your samples tested through your extension office, so it isn't all that expensive, nor hard to do.
I am not slamming Vigortone, nor any other mineral company, but if you guys are serious about trying to improve your efficiency, breed up, and overall herd health, do your research. Vigortone HAS done the research, and meets your generic needs, but I DO BELIEVE a person can go way beyond generic, basic needs.

If you have brokered salt, then surely you know that you can't buy salt for
$50 ton any more. In our area salt is at least $200/ton. I have sat with
ranchers and figured out the cost of our mineral with almost no salt and added
the price of the salt in and we have found the mineral with the salt added is
CHEAPER!!

I don't think you have any idea of the service we perform for our
customers. And if our so called 'generic' mineral doesn't do the job, why do
we have so many satisfied customers? Even the veterinarian buys our mineral
and a few years ago, he didn't believe in feeding mineral. He has seen it for
himself how much a good mineral program enchances herd health. We still
have our very first customer, so that says a LOT. Our customers run from
50 head to 1200 head and we treat them all fairly, as we would like to be
treated.

Yes, you can get your samples tested through the extension office and by that
if you are inferring that we might not be honest with what we find; I will tell you
that we send all our samples to an INDEPENDENT LAB. One with a much faster
turn around than the one our extension office uses. We even provide the
customer with a pre-paid envelope to send their samples in.

We also do fecal samples and that has been most enlightening.

As far as I'm concerned, this is the end of the subject. I refrained from joining
in until my name was mentioned. And I'm not sorry I posted some information
that SOMEONE might get some help out of.

I didn't appreciate your BS remark. That was not necessary.

 

[eatbeef]

Wow, this has been an interesting post. :?

I have noticed alot have mentioned test feed, grass, water, blood, etc.

Can you just collect manure samples and have them tested and give you the results you need to design a mineral????

Kinda hard to test the grass because you really dont know how much of which grasses they are eating.

 

[Faster horses]

Wow, this has been an interesting post. :?

I have noticed alot have mentioned test feed, grass, water, blood, etc.

Can you just collect manure samples and have them tested and give you the results you need to design a mineral????

Kinda hard to test the grass because you really dont know how much of which grasses they are eating.

You should be with us when we do a grass sample. :shock: It's down in the draws,
up over the hills, we collect a variety of grasses and send them in. It is not
a slow easy job, there is lots of walking involved. People can make it just
too confusing. We keep it simple. As I mentioned, in our country producers use
one or two products. One of our most popular formulas was designed from
a local ranch, grass samples taken in August and through those samples we
were able to drop the phos 1% and save the producers some money. It has
become our most popular mineral. We have it in 6% and 3.5% phos. The
3.5% can be fed in the spring when the grass is green. Our producers use it until
the grass starts drying up in August. Works excellent that way and they save
$$$.

 

[C Thompson]

This is almost as controversial as winter calving. I won't be the only one this time. We do give block salt to our cows with trace mineral in it year round but like therancher here we have never given mineral to our cows and probably won't start unless we see a need. We have never got an honest 100 percent calf crop if you count it from cows exposed to calves weaned and I doubt anyone else does regularly either even with a lot of expensive inputs and twins. I have heard that in some areas minerals are missing and some have corrected problems by feeding some so I won't argue that in some cases they are beneficial. I don't even know the cost of a mineral program per head because even though a lot of folks here do feed minerals, some of us do not and there is not any obvious difference in cow performance.

 

[flyingS]

FH, I did not wean 100% of calves born, I weaned 98.6% out of 1000 hd. I am not bragging, you called me out, so I will give you the facts. I calved those cows with the help of my wife and my dog Maddie. I could of been gone for a 1/3 to 1/2 that time helping neighbors brand and working other cattle on the ranch, leaving my wife home alone. She not only calved but started the first 590 hd on rotation at 30 days while calving the remainder, Maddie helped where she could. When you have that many calves and that little man power you won't save them all. My point is that had I the time to do nothing but live with my cows, I might have done better than I did. As it stood we made a plan and managed through it and did pretty well anyway. That success was attributed to hard work and dedication, good knowledgeable help that knows the importance of stocknanship, and good pasture management. The cows were not lot calved and calves were segregated by age trying not to get more than 200 in a group. We did not scour guard the cows either. Mineral had nothing to do with any of it. My wife made sure every calf sucked every day until they were a week old. When we rotated through our pastures, moving at a maximum every 4 days, our pairs stayed mated even with almost 600 in a group. They always had plenty of grass and water, despite being in the middle of a drought.
No doubt you have knowledge of your product, but that does not mean that there isn't a better one or a more effecient way to gain results. I was talking about anyone who sells a product, it is there job to sell the product line not present more feasible options. Maybe your product is the most affordable in your area, I don't know because I don't live there. While you may not sell someone mineral that doesn't need it, you aren't going to tell them they can get the same results from a more affordable product. I am sure you get a comission on your sells, just as I get paid for services I provide.
Sorry for highjacking the thread.

 

[LazyWP]

I will say BULL S*** to your company buying salt cheaper. I have brokered enough salt to know the prices. The only reason any mineral company would add any salt, is because its cheap, and the average cowman has been led to believe that salt must be in their mineral. A generic, one size fits all program is a sales persons dream, and for the most part does little for the individual cowman.
You can get most of your samples tested through your extension office, so it isn't all that expensive, nor hard to do.
I am not slamming Vigortone, nor any other mineral company, but if you guys are serious about trying to improve your efficiency, breed up, and overall herd health, do your research. Vigortone HAS done the research, and meets your generic needs, but I DO BELIEVE a person can go way beyond generic, basic needs.

So where is the mineral you feed manufactured?

Mineral is manufactured in Sioux City Iowa, I think. Distributed by a local rancher. I am not saying its the best, but it is custom mixed to my situation. The salt I feed now costs me $100/ton, and the mineral is a tick over $1200.

 

[Denny]

$2.50 per 50 pounds of salt bullshit.You must dig it up out back as the freight would tally damn near that much.If your going to tell stories make them a bit believeable. My salt cost between $5 and $6 for 50#s picked up 3 miles from home frieght is figured in on that price.I could buy salt cheaper at Cutler in Duluth by the semi load then add $600 frieght to get it here.Might save 50 cents a bag.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

I will say BULL S*** to your company buying salt cheaper. I have brokered enough salt to know the prices. The only reason any mineral company would add any salt, is because its cheap, and the average cowman has been led to believe that salt must be in their mineral. A generic, one size fits all program is a sales persons dream, and for the most part does little for the individual cowman.
You can get most of your samples tested through your extension office, so it isn't all that expensive, nor hard to do.
I am not slamming Vigortone, nor any other mineral company, but if you guys are serious about trying to improve your efficiency, breed up, and overall herd health, do your research. Vigortone HAS done the research, and meets your generic needs, but I DO BELIEVE a person can go way beyond generic, basic needs.

So where is the mineral you feed manufactured?

Mineral is manufactured in Sioux City Iowa, I think. Distributed by a local rancher. I am not saying its the best, but it is custom mixed to my situation. The salt I feed now costs me $100/ton, and the mineral is a tick over $1200.

So is it a "Custom " mix to your herd with water feed and samples taken or to your area?

 

[LazyWP]

So where is the mineral you feed manufactured?

Mineral is manufactured in Sioux City Iowa, I think. Distributed by a local rancher. I am not saying its the best, but it is custom mixed to my situation. The salt I feed now costs me $100/ton, and the mineral is a tick over $1200.

So is it a "Custom " mix to your herd with water feed and samples taken or to your area?

Yes sir

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Mineral is manufactured in Sioux City Iowa, I think. Distributed by a local rancher. I am not saying its the best, but it is custom mixed to my situation. The salt I feed now costs me $100/ton, and the mineral is a tick over $1200.

So is it a "Custom " mix to your herd with water feed and samples taken or to your area?

Yes sir

Yes sir what? Your area or feed and water taken from the ranch? :?

 

[LazyWP]

samples of grass and water from the ranch.

 

[LazyWP]

It really makes no difference to what you guys do. Every one of you claim to be progressive, yet very few want to do any research on your own. YOu would rather sit back and listen to your local sales rep tell you what you need to feed. Vigortone has done a bunch of research, and so have other companies. I am just saying that there are ways to cut the price of your mineral program, and still have it meet your needs.
In this area, we are short on Copper, that we are adding 25ppm to sheep. There are other areas, that don't need to feed mineral, or so I hear.

 

[Bar M]

As far as i am concerned a mineral program is the cheapest insurance policy you can buy. Too put it simply do what works for your operation, weather it is improved pastures in iowa or the big rolling plains of the sandhills, it still comes down to what works.
Personally i use a purina 12-6 with salt and the same 12-6 with igr in the summer it is infront of the cows everyday of the year and where i am its alot easier to fill mineral tubes with one bag and not have to worry about salt blocks or mixing my own salt in just to much screwing around for me.

 

[Denny]

Best mineral here is a 16 16 blend from adm 16 phos 16 cal no salt the guys who use that have the biggest calves and the best breed up of any in the area $27 a bag.Thats what I've went to Vigortone charges freight on top of freight on top of freight no kidding 3 different charges on the invoice pertaining to delivery screw'em.

 

[Faster horses]

It really makes no difference to what you guys do. Every one of you claim to be progressive, yet very few want to do any research on your own. YOu would rather sit back and listen to your local sales rep tell you what you need to feed. Vigortone has done a bunch of research, and so have other companies. I am just saying that there are ways to cut the price of your mineral program, and still have it meet your needs.
In this area, we are short on Copper, that we are adding 25ppm to sheep. There are other areas, that don't need to feed mineral, or so I hear.

Ranchers are busy people. They depend on us to provide the research, especially
when they find someone they can trust to tell them right. When it was available,
I subscribed to a nutrition newsletter by Dave Wieland (who was the consulting
nutritionist for BEEF magazine) so that I had more sources at hand. The information
in that newsletter, by an INDEPENDENT person, pretty much correlated with
what Vigortone teaches us. Also, John Patterson, MSU, has done the major
work in Montana finding out about the need for mineral in Montana. Montana
is short of copper and zinc as a whole. I talk
with him from time to time as well. Mark Peterson, now at Ft. Keogh, is another
person I have talked with when he was in New Mexico.
I take this very seriously and
want to pass along correct information. Vigortone is the oldest mineral company
in the US. Last year was their 100th year. They are industry leaders and they
didn't get that way by passing along fraudlent information. They have held
ranch trials (yes, right on different ranches, not it a lab situation) and have
published their findings. Show me another mineral company who has done that.

Have you ever heard of the NRC? We use their information too. However, they
have not published anything new for quite some time now. Vigortone is
doing research all the time. I've known times when they have send product
to an independent lab.

Our product speaks for itself, or ranchers in our area wouldn't continue to use
it. They are people whose livestock make their living. I'm very happy to
be able to work with them! I (we) have worked to earn their trust, as I'm
sure your mineral rep has done with you.

BTW, that $200/ton salt is when it is on sale. Regualar price here is comparable
to the price in Denny's area.

Now the way I undertand it, the cows you feed the mineral to, are not yours,
correct? So is the owner the one who buys and chooses the mineral?
The price you posted is higher than ours, especially
when it's on sale and we have a sale for about 3 months in the spring and 3 months in the fall.
Our customers stock up then. For 5 ton orders or more, the truck goes in; for smaller orders
WE DELIVER IT for no extra charge. You see, we are ranchers and we understand
the business. Good service+excellent product=success.
We can and do make custom made mineral; but for the most part, it isn't
needed in our area. If you will notice I never knock custom made mineral.

FWIW

 

[loomixguy]

A mineral program doesn't need to meet the producer's needs...IT NEEDS TO MEET THE COW'S NEEDS!

The NRC recommendations have been out for years, and it doesn't matter where you are located, the cow's needs aren't going to change. Most reputable feed companies will have a pretty fair idea of what is lacking in an area and manufacture mineral to fill the gaps, so to speak. Mineral needs in South Dakota will be plumb different than the needs in southern Kansas Most folks will be able to get along with a mineral that is floor stocked. Some locations may require additional copper or whatever, and need a mineral with additional levels to meet any localized requirements.

I recently had a customer switch mineral blends when I found out he was using an OLD Gooch formula that was 50 years old and now was requiring a 2 ton minimum order. The mineral he is using now has twice the protein and way more macro and micro nutrients than the old formula had. The old formula had no selenium, Vitamin D, or E, among others.

The best part is, he's happy with the new mineral, it's a floor stocked item, and he's saving around $100/ton.

 

[flyingS]

Denny, salt is 112/ton at the local feed store. If you want there number I can sure get it to you.