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What happened to SH?

Brad S: "A year ago I helped a friend doctor a 800# colt with slash marks on both sides of its hips and ribs."

Sorry Brad, but unless you can show someone a lion track, the chances are that the hip and rib injuries were created by something other than a lion. More than likely a sharp plank, nail, wire, or something else that cut it when it spooked from something else which usually ends up being a dog.

How can I say that when I didn't see it?

1. Because I have verified many of these same types of reports.

2. A mountain lion would have absolutey no trouble killing a 800 lb. colt if they set their mind to it. If a lion gets their claws on it, IT'S USUALLY DEAD!

3. In the rare chance that it did miss, the claw marks would most likely be on the neck and ribs rather than the hips and ribs. A lion kills by seperation of the neck vertabrae and that requires control of the front end of their prey, not the back where they get the sh*t kicked out of them.

Trust me on this Brad, I have been down this road many times.

Thanks for your concern on the car. We recovered the car yesterday and an investigation is pending. I can't release any more details at this point.


~SH~
 
2. A mountain lion would have absolutey no trouble killing a 800 lb. colt if they set their mind to it. If a lion gets their claws on it, IT'S USUALLY DEAD!

I disagree, many may be that way, but had a friend that had a colt that was just 3 months old with claw marks down one side and across the hips. There was cat tracks and the colt lived, I think they got the cat too. How it got away is a mystery, unless the others ran it off.
 
Were in a area take gets "Cat sightings" quite often but I have only seen one Bob cat in my life. had cows really spooked last fall but am leaning towards some roving dogs.

Rancher have you ever seen the movie Holes? John Voight has a line that I can see you saying," ONCE UPON A TIME THERE WAS A MAGICAL PLACE THAT IT NEVER RAINED, THEE END." :cowboy:
 
SH, "Sorry Brad, but unless you can show someone a lion track, the chances are that the hip and rib injuries were created by something other than a lion. More than likely a sharp plank, nail, wire, or something else that cut it when it spooked from something else which usually ends up being a dog."

Nail and plank in a horse pasture? Dude, you need to get off the rez. A graduate level biologist did examine the horse while he was in my barn. He said no way on K9s making such clean slashes, also K9s bite under the neck. My nephew (the biologist) was also involved in confirming sitings at The University of Kansas via DNA testing of feces.


How can I say that when I didn't see it?

1. Because I have verified many of these same types of reports.

terribly unscientific methoodology to lump reports

2. A mountain lion would have absolutey no trouble killing a 800 lb. colt if they set their mind to it. If a lion gets their claws on it, IT'S USUALLY DEAD!

Agreed, big experianced cougar could likely bring down a colt. As the biologist explained, the younger less experianced and smaller cats are pushed out to marginal habitat areas, and they would be ecpected to be less successful predators.



3. In the rare chance that it did miss, the claw marks would most likely be on the neck and ribs rather than the hips and ribs. A lion kills by seperation of the neck vertabrae and that requires control of the front end of their prey, not the back where they get the sh*t kicked out of them.

The biologist was satisified that cat predation was the most plausible explaination he could derive, and likely the short coupled colt was able to free himself because the cat was unable to avoid kicking.

Trust me on this Brad, I have been down this road many times.

Your experiances would seem more valuable if you didn't think horsemen had nails and planks in their horse pasture, and you accounted for the short length of a young colt in your analysis.
 
Brad S.: "A graduate level biologist did examine the horse while he was in my barn. He said no way on K9s making such clean slashes, also K9s bite under the neck. My nephew (the biologist) was also involved in confirming sitings at The University of Kansas via DNA testing of feces."

Brad, I have seen experienced veterinarians misjudge lion kills.

There was a 1200 pound cow killed in SD where a local veterinarian claimed that a cow was killed by a lion and argued with the trapper. The cow was laying in a deep cow trail with a broken neck. The trapper knew that a lion would not kill a 1200 pound cow without feeding on it or trying to cover it after feeding on it. The trapper skinned it out. NO DEEP PUNCTURE WOUNDS. The cow was old and had simply fallen wrong and broke it's neck.

The veterinarian was clearly wrong and quite miffed that someone would second guess his experience and education.

I guess this lion must have run up to the cow, scared it to death, and it fell and broke it's neck?????? LOL!

That's the type of sh*t we deal with in working with "self proclaimed lion experts".

The fact remains, few people are experienced in evaluating lion kills.

Your friend may know exactly what he's talking about but experience has taught me not to take some things at word value from someone I don't know and trust especially when it comes to confirming lion kills.

If your friend was involved in confirming sitings via DNA testing of feces, why wouln't he find a track?

Lions leave tracks!


FYI, I have evaluated literally thousands of K9 kills. K9's do not kill by biting under the neck. "MOST" COYOTES kill by biting under the neck but most dogs just tear the hell out of an animal from whereever they can grab them.


Brad S.: "As the biologist explained, the younger less experianced and smaller cats are pushed out to marginal habitat areas, and they would be ecpected to be less successful predators."

That theory is plausible.

When the biologists in this state want to confirm a lion kill, they call the men who work with lion complaints.


Brad S.: "The biologist was satisified that cat predation was the most plausible explaination he could derive, and likely the short coupled colt was able to free himself because the cat was unable to avoid kicking."

Without any evidence to the contrary, why wouldn't you believe it?

Some of the trappers I know are so tired of receiving bogus lion complaints that they take the time to find where every horse cut itself. If they don't they keep getting repeat calls for the same thing.


Brad S.: "Your experiances would seem more valuable if you didn't think horsemen had nails and planks in their horse pasture, and you accounted for the short length of a young colt in your analysis."

I am well aware of the difference between a "horseman" and "someone with horses". I am simply pointed out some of the findings I and others have dealt with.

The short length of a young colt would make it that much easier for a lion to kill it. Even younger inexperienced lions (1 1/2 years old) would have no trouble killing an 800 pound colt if they took the notion. If lions were crippling colts they would also have to be killing colts, feeding on colts, and burying colts. Lions seldom miss on deer so why would they miss a domestic 800 pound colt so often?

For whatever reason, people simply want to believe that a lion crippled their animal despite the evidence to the contrary.

Again, your case may have been a lion but my experience and the experience of those who work with lion complaints every day, it would be a rarity.

Like I said before, unfortunately all the bogus complaints discredit the legitimate ones but I never call it either way for sure unless I can prove it wwith a track or deep pucture wounds.


~SH~
 

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