• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

What is a "good" cow?

Grassfarmer said:
Thanks, that was very a interesting post Dylan. My next question is how does this relate to the quality of beef each type can yield? Is it possible to get decent quality carcasses off cattle with the internally stored fat? I'm guessing none of this type will marble and likely will have limited external fat.

You are welcome Grassfarmer. As regards beef quality that depends on your definition of beef quality, "carcass quality" needs to be defined also.
In terms of the extent of marbling in the breeds whose primary fat storage mechanism is internal I can't really help you there either. Need to do more research. The majority of the cattle we kill are Angus and high% Angus, we have also killed a number of Angus Galloway X cattle. One other breed of cattle we have kiledl are some Parthenaise. Noticably lighter meat color, virtually no marbling, extremely tender meat.
 
The Tuli breed stores internal fat, but has a marbeling score similar to Aberdeen Angus beef. One of the factors that attracted the attention of commercial breeders to this breed, which was developed as an easy keeping native breed to improve the quality of native owned cattle, was the fact that the national carcase competiton was won for nine consecutive years by the Tuli breeding station, with fullblood Tuli steers.
The competiton were the well known British, Continental and Bos Indicus breeds form across the country.[/quote]

Interesting note on the Tuli's, I think their are some in Alberta. I really know nothing about them, other than Alf Collins from Australia experimented with some but I got the impression from him that from a reproductive efficiency stand point they didn't give him what he had hoped for.
 
Dylan Biggs said:
The Tuli breed stores internal fat, but has a marbeling score similar to Aberdeen Angus beef. One of the factors that attracted the attention of commercial breeders to this breed, which was developed as an easy keeping native breed to improve the quality of native owned cattle, was the fact that the national carcase competiton was won for nine consecutive years by the Tuli breeding station, with fullblood Tuli steers.
The competiton were the well known British, Continental and Bos Indicus breeds form across the country.

Interesting note on the Tuli's, I think their are some in Alberta. I really know nothing about them, other than Alf Collins from Australia experimented with some but I got the impression from him that from a reproductive efficiency stand point they didn't give him what he had hoped for.[/quote]

There are both Tuli and Bonsmara herds in Alberta, in all the herds both my own and those I have supplied the stock for, all in challenging environments, the Tuli weaned more calves per females exposed than any of the other breeds in these areas. Research in Botswana and Zimbabwe both came up with similar findings. All the Australian research I have read has been positive in this regard, but no one breed is going to meet everyones' expectations. In south western Matabeleland, very few breeds could cope, the Tuli made us a good living mainly because of the lbs/acre produced compared to the other breeds in our area.
 
There were a number of Tuli imported to the Rimbey area - I'm not sure where from. A next door neighbor bought 3 females but they were eventually all shipped for being too wild. One bred heifer went "up and over" the head gate of their chute ripping her belly open in the process :shock: Luckily the vet was there to stitch her up. Maybe not a fair assessment of the breed - perhaps these individuals were off a wild line? I'll say one thing for them they could maintain condition really well and our winter cold didn't seem to bother them.
They claimed they were predisposed to calf during daylight hours only due to the fear of predation by lions - would that be true?
 
Much of the adaptation eg datlight calving and grazing in the heat of the day are as a result of 5000 years selection in the African savanna and the last 2000 years in the bushveld area of south western Zimbabwe.
I am surprised to hear of any Tuli being wild, I had a reasonable number in Rhodesia under extensive conditions, and never had trouble handling them, despite being off the ranch due to military deployments during the bush war. So much so that when I started with Tuli again in NC, it was because my younger son helped with the cattle while I was at my day job (2400 sow multiplyer pig herd) and as Craig has CP and Autism I couldnt risk cattle I felt might be wild in any way.
To be honest I was pleasantly surprised at how well both the Tuli and Bonsmara coped in Canada, I still wouldn't consider them a cold climate breed, thogh some F1 Tuli/Celtic breed cattle would be interesting as a maternal line.
 
Grassfarmer said:
They claimed they were predisposed to calf during daylight hours only due to the fear of predation by lions - would that be true?

The ultimate selection pressure for a certian trait.
 
This has been an interesting thread and one that I've enjoyed. I just want to throw my 2 cents worth in before my market value crashes. :lol: For us a "Good" cow has been one just as Dylan and others described - fertility, feet, udders, fleshing ability, disposition, mothering, survivability, etc. I would suggest though that fertility and survivability are 2 different things, and Grassfarmer eluded to it in an earlier post when he referred to deer in natural settings. Lots of deer are open and dry every year, it's just part of their being. They have a rough year/winter, and come up dry the following year. Maybe they stay dry 2 or 3 years running, maybe they never miss again, who knows? All I know is that we have had cows that are too easy fleshing that didn't milk, and skinny cows that milked themselves out of a job ie, came in open. I cull both, and I believe that in doing so we will breed fertility AND survivability into our herd over the long haul. We select for numerous traits and don't expect to see substantial improvement overnight, because evolution is a real slow dance.

I think that far too often we want things to improve so quickly that we jump at anything "different", instead of being patient and letting things develop in time. I have a herd sire for instance that is the best footed Galloway bull I have found to date. He has alot of muscle and thickness, is puppy dog quiet, throws excellent daughters and powerful sons. His one fault that has been obvious for years is that he is not as easy fleshing as I would like. Other bulls we've had are better than he in that regard, but we have continually used him because no other bull we've found has as much to offer in an overall package....until 2007. I had been mating this herdsire to several of our easiest fleshing Galloway cows hoping to get a son that all his traits plus the fleshing ability of these cows that have survived our winters on Prairie Wool and promises. In May of 2007 we got what we were waiting for - a bull calf out of an ideal cow, an almost ideal sire, born in the first week of the first cycle, and has been a standout to this day. These success stories of genetic Roulette happen every few years with cattle, every few months with hogs or poultry, and every few minutes with bacteria(I assume). Herein lies the lesson of patience - we have to accept the fact that these cattle developed over thousands of years, and we are not going to get what we want in every cross every breeding season.

Our project took a few years to develop just to a point where we feel we have the individuals to form a breeding program. In a few more, who knows where we'll be. But for now we have a herd of very consistent cows that are smaller than most people like, easier fleshing than most people have, and more fertile than the cows we used to pump alot of expensive inputs into. Are we raising the ideal beef animal? Not for all of you - but for us, we're getting there.

Our frame 4 herdsire weighing 2100lbs and his frame 2.5 son may be too small for some, but their sons and daughters are hardy enough to survive on stockpiled grass and very little hay, fertile enough to breed back in that system, and productive enough to give us calves that finish on grass, providing $2000-2500 per head in beef sales. They're not everyone's cup of tea, and no one cow is that for everyone. Ours work for us, so I guess that's what I call a good cow.
 
Soapweed said:
jingo2 said:
A good cow is a sold for profit cow.

Not necessarily. If you sell her, she is someone else's cow. If she is no longer your cow, how can she do you any good? This becomes a case of selling the goose that lays the golden eggs.

In the market now not many of those eggs are "Golden" , but from the cow calf point of you are right on soapweed.
 
Dylan Biggs said:
Soapweed said:
jingo2 said:
A good cow is a sold for profit cow.

Not necessarily. If you sell her, she is someone else's cow. If she is no longer your cow, how can she do you any good? This becomes a case of selling the goose that lays the golden eggs.

In the market now not many of those eggs are "Golden" , but from the cow calf point of you are right on soapweed.

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on why the cow was sold in the first place. If sold for a profit, one could buy a better cow, better genetics etc!
 
A good cow is one that is profitable every year. She probably doesn't always wean the heaviest calf, but she is more than likely efficient to have around. She comes in all sizes shapes and colors. She can't see the difference in her neighbors, be they black, white, long eared or horned. She can't look under the hide and tell you what her marbling score is. It seems everyone gets rapped up in industry standards set in the local coffee shop. In the end its the money that you put in the bank after you pay the bills that counts. Some of the best cows aren't much to talk about and neither are their calves. If she can raise that calf efficiently she will probably carry her weight and someone elses. I am not trying to offend anyone, just stating that unless you know what your neighbors PROFIT MARGIN is and your willing to share yours, you shouldn't probably make assumptions about their operation. A fella I know said one time when someone asked why he had cattle of all colors, "They all look the same when you jerk the hide off." The true problem is not finding a good cow it is finding 500 just like her.
 
Liveoak said:
Dylan Biggs said:
Soapweed said:
Not necessarily. If you sell her, she is someone else's cow. If she is no longer your cow, how can she do you any good? This becomes a case of selling the goose that lays the golden eggs.

In the market now not many of those eggs are "Golden" , but from the cow calf point of you are right on soapweed.

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on why the cow was sold in the first place. If sold for a profit, one could buy a better cow, better genetics etc!
How can you be sure that you have bought "better genetics"?
I would wager Soapweed would have a hard time finding "better genetics" than his own replacement heifers.
 
RobertMac said:
Liveoak said:
Dylan Biggs said:
In the market now not many of those eggs are "Golden" , but from the cow calf point of you are right on soapweed.

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on why the cow was sold in the first place. If sold for a profit, one could buy a better cow, better genetics etc!
How can you be sure that you have bought "better genetics"?
I would wager Soapweed would have a hard time finding "better genetics" than his own replacement heifers.

RobertMac, if you could have seen some of my original herd, many from south of the border, you would have seen planty of room for improvement! :lol2: Haven't seen Soapweeds cattle but my comment was directed "in general". If there was no benefit to selling replacement cattle, no one would be doing it! I'm sure their not doing it at a loss.
 
flyingS said:
A good cow is one that is profitable every year. She probably doesn't always wean the heaviest calf, but she is more than likely efficient to have around. She comes in all sizes shapes and colors. She can't see the difference in her neighbors, be they black, white, long eared or horned. She can't look under the hide and tell you what her marbling score is. It seems everyone gets rapped up in industry standards set in the local coffee shop. In the end its the money that you put in the bank after you pay the bills that counts. Some of the best cows aren't much to talk about and neither are their calves. If she can raise that calf efficiently she will probably carry her weight and someone elses. I am not trying to offend anyone, just stating that unless you know what your neighbors PROFIT MARGIN is and your willing to share yours, you shouldn't probably make assumptions about their operation. A fella I know said one time when someone asked why he had cattle of all colors, "They all look the same when you jerk the hide off." The true problem is not finding a good cow it is finding 500 just like her.


Exactly. :clap: :clap: :clap: :tiphat:
 
gcreekrch said:
flyingS said:
A good cow is one that is profitable every year. She probably doesn't always wean the heaviest calf, but she is more than likely efficient to have around. She comes in all sizes shapes and colors. She can't see the difference in her neighbors, be they black, white, long eared or horned. She can't look under the hide and tell you what her marbling score is. It seems everyone gets rapped up in industry standards set in the local coffee shop. In the end its the money that you put in the bank after you pay the bills that counts. Some of the best cows aren't much to talk about and neither are their calves. If she can raise that calf efficiently she will probably carry her weight and someone elses. I am not trying to offend anyone, just stating that unless you know what your neighbors PROFIT MARGIN is and your willing to share yours, you shouldn't probably make assumptions about their operation. A fella I know said one time when someone asked why he had cattle of all colors, "They all look the same when you jerk the hide off." The true problem is not finding a good cow it is finding 500 just like her.


Exactly. :clap: :clap: :clap: :tiphat:

Well said :!:
 
And a cow bought/bred in the low part of the cycle can be less "good" than a cow at the top of the cycle and be "better". What a twisted web we weave...
:lol: :lol: :lol:
 

Latest posts

Back
Top