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What is happened to our cattle prices???

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mtrancher

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northern montana
Can somebody explain to me why the bottom has dropped out of the fat cattle market. June live closed at 74.75 today. Thats off of a high of around 88-89 for June just a month or 2 ago. I realize that we were all kind of expecting the markets to drop off slightly this year but yikes! Thats close to $200 off on a 1350lb steer. I didn't use the futures on my cattle since I was going to just sell them as 7 weight feeders the 1st of Feb, but like a dummy have hung on to them when the market started going south. :x Does anyone have any ideas why the market has reacted so dramaticly downward, they mention that feedlot placements are up, where are they coming from since they also say rancher are holding back more for replacements. Canada or Mexico maybe? I'm just asking, as it doesn't make sense to me. Do you all think it will keep sliding?
 
mtrancher said:
Can somebody explain to me why the bottom has dropped out of the fat cattle market. June live closed at 74.75 today. Thats off of a high of around 88-89 for June just a month or 2 ago. I realize that we were all kind of expecting the markets to drop off slightly this year but yikes! Thats close to $200 off on a 1350lb steer. I didn't use the futures on my cattle since I was going to just sell them as 7 weight feeders the 1st of Feb, but like a dummy have hung on to them when the market started going south. :x Does anyone have any ideas why the market has reacted so dramaticly downward, they mention that feedlot placements are up, where are they coming from since they also say rancher are holding back more for replacements. Canada or Mexico maybe? I'm just asking, as it doesn't make sense to me. Do you all think it will keep sliding?

Well, this was my prediction. Maybe Agman can come up with something. He and SH keep telling us we have high cattle prices right now. I bet 200 to 400 per head more that Johanns et al has cheated you out of with respect to selling to Japan would come in handy right now.
 
The plants up here are killing a lot more cows and cutting back on the fats so the price up here isnt great either. The plants are sure lining their pockets off of .35 cows :shock: :?
 
Wow, only .35 cows still in Canada. You guys must still be really hurting from the BSE backlash. I don't think the price in the states is affected much at all by BSE as the day the positive cow in Alabama was announced the market went up!! Strange. So what are fats bringing in Canda?[/quote]
 
mtrancher said:
Can somebody explain to me why the bottom has dropped out of the fat cattle market. June live closed at 74.75 today. Thats off of a high of around 88-89 for June just a month or 2 ago. I realize that we were all kind of expecting the markets to drop off slightly this year but yikes! Thats close to $200 off on a 1350lb steer. I didn't use the futures on my cattle since I was going to just sell them as 7 weight feeders the 1st of Feb, but like a dummy have hung on to them when the market started going south. :x Does anyone have any ideas why the market has reacted so dramaticly downward, they mention that feedlot placements are up, where are they coming from since they also say rancher are holding back more for replacements. Canada or Mexico maybe? I'm just asking, as it doesn't make sense to me. Do you all think it will keep sliding?

This could be part of the reason for the weakening US cattle market-- Demand is down- Japan is closed- but we continue importing more cheap beef and cattle......

From Cattlenetwork:
"Beef exports in January were up 83% from 12 months earlier, but down 59.1% from January 2003, before BSE in North America.



The first month of 2006 saw a 20% increase in beef imports into the U.S. Much of the increase in our beef imports was from Australia. For some reason beef imports from Australia were quite small in January of 2005.



Our imports of feeder cattle from Mexico in January were up 24.7% from 12 months earlier. Our total live cattle imports in January were up 137.8% from 12 months earlier. Remember, the border to live cattle imports did not open until sometime in July last year."
 
mtrancher said:
Wow, only .35 cows still in Canada. You guys must still be really hurting from the BSE backlash. I don't think the price in the states is affected much at all by BSE as the day the positive cow in Alabama was announced the market went up!! Strange. So what are fats bringing in Canda?
[/quote]


Southern Ontario, fats are .93-1.00 cdn and butcher cows are .28-.50
 
Part of the downward pressure on fats is they are 100 pounds heavier then last year putting alot more meat into the system. Nice weather ,cheap grain and waiting on the market compounded the problem.
.
 
Econ101 said:
mtrancher said:
Can somebody explain to me why the bottom has dropped out of the fat cattle market. June live closed at 74.75 today. Thats off of a high of around 88-89 for June just a month or 2 ago. I realize that we were all kind of expecting the markets to drop off slightly this year but yikes! Thats close to $200 off on a 1350lb steer. I didn't use the futures on my cattle since I was going to just sell them as 7 weight feeders the 1st of Feb, but like a dummy have hung on to them when the market started going south. :x Does anyone have any ideas why the market has reacted so dramaticly downward, they mention that feedlot placements are up, where are they coming from since they also say rancher are holding back more for replacements. Canada or Mexico maybe? I'm just asking, as it doesn't make sense to me. Do you all think it will keep sliding?

Well, this was my prediction. Maybe Agman can come up with something. He and SH keep telling us we have high cattle prices right now. I bet 200 to 400 per head more that Johanns et al has cheated you out of with respect to selling to Japan would come in handy right now.

Annual record high prices were recorded in all categories of cattle during 2005. If you missed that minor detail you need to get up to speed on the market.

With eight percent more cattle on feed and record front-end fed cattle supplies developing this summer there is no secret that prices will work lower. Futures are an anticipatory market. They are already discounting that supply buildup.

Beef production YTD is up 4.1%. Beef demand peaked in 2004. Carcass weights are approximately 23 pounds above year ago levels and are at record levels. Competing meat supplies are also up. Because of the lack of export sales chicken is substantially lower than last year. Some cuts are 30% lower with dark meat as much as 45% lower.

Price this quarter will average $90. When cash prices traded at $84 today they broke a three week cash support level at $86 basis the south plains. There are three years since 1990 that violated price support in current dollars at $86 during the first quarter. Those three years proceeded to trade quickly down to $82 during the first quarter. There is one week remaining to meet that objective. Thus $82 is the next price objective. Late spring/summer prices could easily trade into the $74-$76 level. A record buildup in front-end fed cattle supplies is under way that could exceed 900,000 head by July. That was measurable and predictable already two months ago. It is ironic that the domestic fed cattle supply setup this year is the polar opposite of that which existed during the summer of 2003 when record fed cattle prices developed.

There is strong historical price support in current dollars at $82 for the second quarter. If that level fails the next significant level of price support is at $77 basis historical analysis. Only one year since 1980 would have suffered that magnitude of second quarter price decline measured in current dollars.

Easter this year is the latest in 16 years and has deferred spring product purchases. The good news is that product buying for post-Easter beef features, first of May beef features and buying to cover Memorial Day product needs could begin to surface very shortly. The sharply lower beef cutout values, which preceded the decline in cash cattle prices will encourage aggressive retail beef features in the coming weeks.

Given the seasonal upturn in weekly cattle slaughter that demand improvement is necessary and welcome. February and March mark seasonal lows in fed cattle slaughter. The seasonal improvement in beef demand will be necessary to turn and reverse the current downtrend in cash and beef cutout values. March is normally the weakest demand month of the year while May is normally the best demand month of the year for beef.

Some of the worst drought conditions in the past 111 years have plagued parts of the southwest and south plains. This restricted and in many cases eliminated wheat grazing which has forced record numbers of feeders, stockers and calves into feed yards and grow yards since last fall. The recent rains will slow placements temporarily. If no additional rains develop the reprieve will likely last only 6-8 weeks. Drought conditions have forced cow slaughter above year ago levels ending the cyclical downturn in domestic cow slaughter which begin in 1997.

When the economics of high fed cattle break evens, high replacement cost break evens and fed cattle sales prices are sharply above the current cost of gain producers, as they have for decades, will feed cattle to heavier weights to lower their final breakeven. These factors have all been in place over the past year. Each additional one pound gain in carcass weights is the equivalent of increasing cattle slaughter by 1,000 head per week. As previously stated carcass weights are 23 pounds above year ago levels. Year-to-date, 75% of the increase in beef production is the direct result of record carcass weights.
 
Manitoba_Rancher said:
Fats are running in that .78-.83 cdn$ here in Manitoba. Cows are priced anywhere from .15-.40 cdn

Just finished shipping a 3 year old bull for 20 cents. :( On 8 weights, I slipped another nickel in the last 2 weeks (a dime slip the week before that). If I'd shipped in February with 80 - 100 lbs less animal, I would have made an additional $4000. When I asked why such a slip, I found out that Cargill has about 15,000 animals being custom fed in my area by Hutterites, and the market was adjusting to these animals being in the supply chain in another 3 months, about the same time my own 8 weights would have finished.

Rod
 
Commodaties are priced by the Central Banking system in New York and England. Which also gives us franchise monies which is worth nothing. Stop competing with world market; sell at home; trade locally and price your own stock. Remove your persons from the corporate US. At this point everyone is relying on corporate to make demands on their living.

You have all stated what you have researched....the US is dumbing down your standards of living by trying to ruin your markets.

"Keep it at home and make your own market by taking back your ownership."

You are an "American of the U.S. Of A. Not a citizen of the US!"
:wink:
 
Demand for beef declining?

Now why would that be? Surely nothing to do with ranchers promoting the health risks associated with consuming beef during a North American BSE discovery in an attempt to shut another country out of it's market. Then, WHOOPS WE HAVE IT TOO!

There have been many blunders on the part of USDA but R-Calf can take a large part of the credit if there is a decrease in the US appetitite towards beef.
 
agman said:
Econ101 said:
mtrancher said:
Can somebody explain to me why the bottom has dropped out of the fat cattle market. June live closed at 74.75 today. Thats off of a high of around 88-89 for June just a month or 2 ago. I realize that we were all kind of expecting the markets to drop off slightly this year but yikes! Thats close to $200 off on a 1350lb steer. I didn't use the futures on my cattle since I was going to just sell them as 7 weight feeders the 1st of Feb, but like a dummy have hung on to them when the market started going south. :x Does anyone have any ideas why the market has reacted so dramaticly downward, they mention that feedlot placements are up, where are they coming from since they also say rancher are holding back more for replacements. Canada or Mexico maybe? I'm just asking, as it doesn't make sense to me. Do you all think it will keep sliding?

Well, this was my prediction. Maybe Agman can come up with something. He and SH keep telling us we have high cattle prices right now. I bet 200 to 400 per head more that Johanns et al has cheated you out of with respect to selling to Japan would come in handy right now.

Annual record high prices were recorded in all categories of cattle during 2005. If you missed that minor detail you need to get up to speed on the market.

With eight percent more cattle on feed and record front-end fed cattle supplies developing this summer there is no secret that prices will work lower. Futures are an anticipatory market. They are already discounting that supply buildup.

Beef production YTD is up 4.1%. Beef demand peaked in 2004. Carcass weights are approximately 23 pounds above year ago levels and are at record levels. Competing meat supplies are also up. Because of the lack of export sales chicken is substantially lower than last year. Some cuts are 30% lower with dark meat as much as 45% lower.

Price this quarter will average $90. When cash prices traded at $84 today they broke a three week cash support level at $86 basis the south plains. There are three years since 1990 that violated price support in current dollars at $86 during the first quarter. Those three years proceeded to trade quickly down to $82 during the first quarter. There is one week remaining to meet that objective. Thus $82 is the next price objective. Late spring/summer prices could easily trade into the $74-$76 level. A record buildup in front-end fed cattle supplies is under way that could exceed 900,000 head by July. That was measurable and predictable already two months ago. It is ironic that the domestic fed cattle supply setup this year is the polar opposite of that which existed during the summer of 2003 when record fed cattle prices developed.

There is strong historical price support in current dollars at $82 for the second quarter. If that level fails the next significant level of price support is at $77 basis historical analysis. Only one year since 1980 would have suffered that magnitude of second quarter price decline measured in current dollars.

Easter this year is the latest in 16 years and has deferred spring product purchases. The good news is that product buying for post-Easter beef features, first of May beef features and buying to cover Memorial Day product needs could begin to surface very shortly. The sharply lower beef cutout values, which preceded the decline in cash cattle prices will encourage aggressive retail beef features in the coming weeks.

Given the seasonal upturn in weekly cattle slaughter that demand improvement is necessary and welcome. February and March mark seasonal lows in fed cattle slaughter. The seasonal improvement in beef demand will be necessary to turn and reverse the current downtrend in cash and beef cutout values. March is normally the weakest demand month of the year while May is normally the best demand month of the year for beef.

Some of the worst drought conditions in the past 111 years have plagued parts of the southwest and south plains. This restricted and in many cases eliminated wheat grazing which has forced record numbers of feeders, stockers and calves into feed yards and grow yards since last fall. The recent rains will slow placements temporarily. If no additional rains develop the reprieve will likely last only 6-8 weeks. Drought conditions have forced cow slaughter above year ago levels ending the cyclical downturn in domestic cow slaughter which begin in 1997.

When the economics of high fed cattle break evens, high replacement cost break evens and fed cattle sales prices are sharply above the current cost of gain producers, as they have for decades, will feed cattle to heavier weights to lower their final breakeven. These factors have all been in place over the past year. Each additional one pound gain in carcass weights is the equivalent of increasing cattle slaughter by 1,000 head per week. As previously stated carcass weights are 23 pounds above year ago levels. Year-to-date, 75% of the increase in beef production is the direct result of record carcass weights.

Agman: "
Annual record high prices were recorded in all categories of cattle during 2005. If you missed that minor detail you need to get up to speed on the market."

Agman, I didn't miss that detail at all. Go look at my quote on the bottom of SH's posts, if we don't get our foreign markets in and the "shackle" space that captive supply brings that Rod spoke of, the independent cattlemen will take the hit again. In the end it is all about supply and demand, who controls it, and who are the gatekeepers.

The USDA is actively helping consolidate this industry with their policies as they have in poultry and the independent cattleman will be the one who loses. So much for pairing up with packers in the NCBA. That was the strategy employed in poultry that helped block all political power of the poultry farmers and what allowed the dissappearance of the markets in poultry. There is no "market" in poultry anymore for producers to sell to.

Bill, it has nothing to do with "declining demand". Most people could care less about bse as its prevelance is so low and the connect the dots to the disease from eating beef is so hard with the time frame involved. In the long run it has the chance to ruin the beef markets, however. This is a supply function. Without overseas markets to sell into, the price of beef is more supply driven than domestic demand driven, regardless of what Agman says. Demand stays relatively flat compared to supply.
 
Econ101 said:
agman said:
Econ101 said:
Well, this was my prediction. Maybe Agman can come up with something. He and SH keep telling us we have high cattle prices right now. I bet 200 to 400 per head more that Johanns et al has cheated you out of with respect to selling to Japan would come in handy right now.

Annual record high prices were recorded in all categories of cattle during 2005. If you missed that minor detail you need to get up to speed on the market.

With eight percent more cattle on feed and record front-end fed cattle supplies developing this summer there is no secret that prices will work lower. Futures are an anticipatory market. They are already discounting that supply buildup.

Beef production YTD is up 4.1%. Beef demand peaked in 2004. Carcass weights are approximately 23 pounds above year ago levels and are at record levels. Competing meat supplies are also up. Because of the lack of export sales chicken is substantially lower than last year. Some cuts are 30% lower with dark meat as much as 45% lower.

Price this quarter will average $90. When cash prices traded at $84 today they broke a three week cash support level at $86 basis the south plains. There are three years since 1990 that violated price support in current dollars at $86 during the first quarter. Those three years proceeded to trade quickly down to $82 during the first quarter. There is one week remaining to meet that objective. Thus $82 is the next price objective. Late spring/summer prices could easily trade into the $74-$76 level. A record buildup in front-end fed cattle supplies is under way that could exceed 900,000 head by July. That was measurable and predictable already two months ago. It is ironic that the domestic fed cattle supply setup this year is the polar opposite of that which existed during the summer of 2003 when record fed cattle prices developed.

There is strong historical price support in current dollars at $82 for the second quarter. If that level fails the next significant level of price support is at $77 basis historical analysis. Only one year since 1980 would have suffered that magnitude of second quarter price decline measured in current dollars.

Easter this year is the latest in 16 years and has deferred spring product purchases. The good news is that product buying for post-Easter beef features, first of May beef features and buying to cover Memorial Day product needs could begin to surface very shortly. The sharply lower beef cutout values, which preceded the decline in cash cattle prices will encourage aggressive retail beef features in the coming weeks.

Given the seasonal upturn in weekly cattle slaughter that demand improvement is necessary and welcome. February and March mark seasonal lows in fed cattle slaughter. The seasonal improvement in beef demand will be necessary to turn and reverse the current downtrend in cash and beef cutout values. March is normally the weakest demand month of the year while May is normally the best demand month of the year for beef.

Some of the worst drought conditions in the past 111 years have plagued parts of the southwest and south plains. This restricted and in many cases eliminated wheat grazing which has forced record numbers of feeders, stockers and calves into feed yards and grow yards since last fall. The recent rains will slow placements temporarily. If no additional rains develop the reprieve will likely last only 6-8 weeks. Drought conditions have forced cow slaughter above year ago levels ending the cyclical downturn in domestic cow slaughter which begin in 1997.

When the economics of high fed cattle break evens, high replacement cost break evens and fed cattle sales prices are sharply above the current cost of gain producers, as they have for decades, will feed cattle to heavier weights to lower their final breakeven. These factors have all been in place over the past year. Each additional one pound gain in carcass weights is the equivalent of increasing cattle slaughter by 1,000 head per week. As previously stated carcass weights are 23 pounds above year ago levels. Year-to-date, 75% of the increase in beef production is the direct result of record carcass weights.

Agman: "
Annual record high prices were recorded in all categories of cattle during 2005. If you missed that minor detail you need to get up to speed on the market."

Agman, I didn't miss that detail at all. Go look at my quote on the bottom of SH's posts, if we don't get our foreign markets in and the "shackle" space that captive supply brings that Rod spoke of, the independent cattlemen will take the hit again. In the end it is all about supply and demand, who controls it, and who are the gatekeepers.

The USDA is actively helping consolidate this industry with their policies as they have in poultry and the independent cattleman will be the one who loses. So much for pairing up with packers in the NCBA. That was the strategy employed in poultry that helped block all political power of the poultry farmers and what allowed the dissappearance of the markets in poultry. There is no "market" in poultry anymore for producers to sell to.

Bill, it has nothing to do with "declining demand". Most people could care less about bse as its prevelance is so low and the connect the dots to the disease from eating beef is so hard with the time frame involved. In the long run it has the chance to ruin the beef markets, however. This is a supply function. Without overseas markets to sell into, the price of beef is more supply driven than domestic demand driven, regardless of what Agman says. Demand stays relatively flat compared to supply.
Is demand for US beef increasing or remaining the same to consumers domestically and internationally?
 
Bill: "Is demand for US beef increasing or remaining the same to consumers domestically and internationally?"

With the sabotage polcies of the USDA who can tell? It seems we are more and more turning into a planned economy with the USDA taking a leading role in that planning, for both the U.S. and Canada. These policies trump true consumer driven demand.
 
Bill, "There have been many blunders on the part of USDA but R-Calf can take a large part of the credit if there is a decrease in the US appetitite towards beef."

:roll:
 
Sandhusker said:
Bill, "There have been many blunders on the part of USDA but R-Calf can take a large part of the credit if there is a decrease in the US appetitite towards beef."

:roll:
OK Sandhusker here's the question.

If R-Calf didn't impact consumer demand by playing the hazardous beef card when BSE eventually was reported in the US why not?

Is it your belief then that R-Calf isn't listened to anyways? If so why should they be supported if they have so little impact and credibility. Pretty hard to support both views isn't it Sandhusker? :roll: :roll:

Is R-Calf a group to be listened to or instead to be laughed at?
 
Bill, here is the result of following your advice in the cattle industry:

Just finished shipping a 3 year old bull for 20 cents. Sad On 8 weights, I slipped another nickel in the last 2 weeks (a dime slip the week before that). If I'd shipped in February with 80 - 100 lbs less animal, I would have made an additional $4000. When I asked why such a slip, I found out that Cargill has about 15,000 animals being custom fed in my area by Hutterites, and the market was adjusting to these animals being in the supply chain in another 3 months, about the same time my own 8 weights would have finished.

Rod

Now there may be some extraneous factors we don't know about, but here is the Montgomery Al. report for a smaller bull with some of the larger slaughter bulls bringing a buck U.S.:

MG_LS135
Montgomery, AL Thr Mar 23, 2006 USDA-AL Dept Ag Market News



Feeder Bulls Medium and Large 1
Head Wt Range Avg Wt Price Range Avg Price
1 500-550 540 116.00 116.00




Now, Bill, what was worse, a little market power or rcalf influencing demand with bse? AL just had their bse cow, remember?

Bill, you keep coming up with empty argumements just to derail rcalf and their fight against market power, which was lost in Canada. Which one is more important?
 
Econ101 said:
Bill, here is the result of following your advice in the cattle industry:

Just finished shipping a 3 year old bull for 20 cents. Sad On 8 weights, I slipped another nickel in the last 2 weeks (a dime slip the week before that). If I'd shipped in February with 80 - 100 lbs less animal, I would have made an additional $4000. When I asked why such a slip, I found out that Cargill has about 15,000 animals being custom fed in my area by Hutterites, and the market was adjusting to these animals being in the supply chain in another 3 months, about the same time my own 8 weights would have finished.

Rod
Where is there mention as to following my advice and in fact where have I ever given it? You are confused once again econ.

Is R-calf taken seriously or not, are they to be listened to or laughed at?

The supporters here like to credit them with making advances when the prices are high. Then look the other way when there is blame placed after media disasters initiated by R-Klan. Pretty tough to sell it both ways.
 

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