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What makes a good maternal bull?

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Obviously I am biased as I raised this bull. I kept him intact and used him because he is the type I like and as Northern Rancher says, his mother was a good cow. She produced consistently, had excellent feet, very good small teats and an excellent disposition. My only criticism of her was the depth of her udder as an older cow, but it never broke down and wasn't a swing bag. This bull is a half brother to Glacier Logan 210.
 
Those are three excellent photo examples Dylan - I can't help but notice the similarity in type between them and pictures I've seen of the Shoshone cattle.

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Above is an early 80s picture of the best Luing bull ever to come to Canada. Pictured as a rising two year old back in the day when they were sold in "ready to work" condition. More than half his daughters lasted to 15 years old and he was the sire of the 23 year old pictured below.
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I'll post later a picture of the more typical type of bull that gets sold in our breed nowadays. WB I would suggest these more typical big rear muscled bull out of a "power cow" are the ones that will breed the "narrower chested angular cow whose backbone I can see 12 mos. of the year." That has been my experience anyway.
 
Whatever happened to Bakewell's like begets like-I've found a masculine well muscled bull bred to a good broody cow produces offspring that are much like their parents.
 
I'm not against masculine, well muscled bulls NR just suggesting that sometimes, in some breeds masculine bulls that are not necessarily heavy of their hind quarters might produce the best females consistently. I think Larry Leonhardt said a bulls individual performance is of little consequence in a maternal breed - his only role is to convey the genetics of his dam onto future generations. I wonder sometimes if our selection doesn't lead us towards picking too much of a terminal sire type and thus weakening the female characteristics in the offspring?
 
Some friends of ours bought some Shoshone bulls from Larry Leonhardt
last spring. They certainly don't have the big butts that some look for;
in fact some might call them slight in that department.
But then again, Larry breeds for females. He says, "no one wants to buy
my bulls, but everyone wants to buy my cows."

Thanks for the nice words about the cow I pictured. I chose her
because she is out of a Shoshone bull.
 
I don't think that it is any secret that some of the bloodlines being looked at by many cattlemen to put some maternal back in their herds are not always the heaviest muscled- or have the fanciest numbers-- exs. Wye, Shoshone, Cole Creek...
A lot of it is acquiring- and keeping- a moderation in all traits.....

Locally many found out a few years ago by going 'bigger, better, faster" with the heavy muscling of the Limi bulls- but paid dearly for it with what they lost in fertility and maternal....
 
IMHO the answer is a bull with three great home owned cows on the dam side.
Reguarless of breed or promotion etc.
 
Here is an example of 25 years of "genetic progress" in a maternal breed. :roll:
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The early 1980s prototype.
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The 2000's prototype - 400lbs heavier at the same age, 6+ inches taller, double muscled yet still claiming the easy care attributes of their ancestors :roll: :roll:
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Funny how more of this type of cow has been showing up since more of these taller, leaner, limo muscled type bulls have been used.
Sorry but I don't believe that one animal can do it all - our fathers and grandfathers had terminal and maternal lines and breeds of cattle for a reason. No matter how much feed, outcrossing, EPDs or BS we throw at the issue I don't think the fundamentals have changed.
 
The last 15 or so years I've just bred to make coiws and the steers take care of themselves-the premium on a good bred heifer is better than on a Prime-Y1 steer on the grid.
 
That's been the program here, nr. The steer calves were merely
a by-product. I'd say that paid off when we sold the cows.
The man that bought some from us in 2005 and paid what we asked,
again stepped up and brought all of them, at the price we asked this
fall.We didn't even have to advertise them. We just called him up as
he had asked that we let him know when we were ready to sell more.

The sale of steer calves never suffered any price discount for being
straight black either. It worked for us and was fairly easy to do...
as long as you did your homework on what bulls to buy and
and looked at the cowherd they came from. We looked at disposition,
udder quality, disposition, feet, disposition, fleshing ability, disposition,
size and disposition. :D You can certainly weed out quickly...

I'm all for crossbred cattle, we just never had the ranch to support
two cowherds. We were able to run straight bred and get a premium
for the heifer calves until we were able to keep them and breed them
to sell as bred heifers. I hope we did the industry a service. Now the
cows are gone and what we have left are the 2009 heifer calves.
 
You got me curious- so I was looking at some of the old GDAR, N Bar, Wye used bulls-- some that were touted for maternal qualities..

What has been described as a "buffalo" look- to me was always the true old "range bull" look...The emulation bulls probably have more "the" look than any- but were touted by many as tops in maternal too..

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Rito 054 GDAR- argumentatively one of the top maternal bulls...

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GDAR Rainmaker 340

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Candolier Forever 376 (a double bred Forever of Wye)

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CH Quantam 3330 (altho I like his son 6247- a double bred Shoshone Intent KGEA 27- even better)

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Shoshone Viking GD60

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Favour of Wye- thought by many Wye breeders to be one of the most maternal...

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You should just have posted the link to 5BarX discussion OT, I think it added to our discussion on the topic here quite a bit.

http://5barx.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=4283

For anyone that's interested. :D
 
I agree TOTALLY.
I have never heard a bad word about that line of cattle.
Have you?

And I just really like O54...
I called Russ DeNowh (GDAR) years ago, when 2100 was popular.
Charlie Younkin, who we were buying our bulls from then, steered
me toward 054. I called Russ and talked to him. I will never forget
what he said when I asked about both of those bulls. He said,
"I have never culled an 054 for a bad bag, and I have 2100's."
That told me what I needed to know. We used 054. He was a
cow maker.

thanks OT, for posting those old pictures.
 
I have a few 3330 daughters and they are as bullet proof a cow as I have had in a long time. Easy keeping, easy to be around and raise nice calves. I had one slip back calving a couple of years ago and she caught back up the next year. Owned a Traveler 124 son out of a Rito 054 daughter that came from VDAR. He produced good daughters that are getting some age on them. Still have a good bank of semen on him and its about time to use him again.

The carcass chase and curve bender chase screwed up a lot of good cattle.
 
Angus 62 said:
I have a few 3330 daughters and they are as bullet proof a cow as I have had in a long time. Easy keeping, easy to be around and raise nice calves. I had one slip back calving a couple of years ago and she caught back up the next year.

The carcass chase and curve bender chase screwed up a lot of good cattle.
Click to expand...

I was just talking about 3330 and his son CH Quantum 6247 "Cedar" 12687606 the other day after the bull sale....One of the "Cedar" co-owners, Zane Panasuk, and I were discussing the influence the old bull and those bulls have had....

Cole Creek Angus, Hanson Angus, and Zane Panasuk Angus owned the "Cedar" bull- that we have some daughters out of- that I really like... He is a little more moderate framed than 3330-lighter birthweight- and a proven heifer bull with over 1000 heifers having been bred to him... He is the sire of two bulls Cole Creek have now- a Jr. Herd Sire- Cole Creek 756 Cedar 47S 15123818 - and Cole Creek Black Cedar 46P 14496765- an 03 model which I've heard many speak highly of and think is proving out to be a great comaker..
 

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