When a neighbor goes behind your back is it just business?

[CattleArmy]

What happens when small community members end up with one taking a lease away from another? Is the guy who took it just doing business? Or does being a neighbor count more then doing business? I have thought and thought on this issue the past few days. I do know that one never knows the value of their neighbors until they are down and out and they just step in and help out. I also know that neighbors help most of our operations run smoothly when working large volumes of cattle. I also know it's nice to see your neighbor in town smile and share some visiting. Yet, I also know how much harder it is to come across pasture when one needs it.



Just wondering what all of your opinions are.

 

[John SD]

Happens all the time in the ranching business, unfortunately. I visit another board that predominantly discusses farming and lots of guys have made posts similar to yours. It's a dog eat dog world out there in ag and most every other business.

Nothing we can do about what other folks do. We can only conduct ourselves in an honest and forthright manner. Might miss out on some real deals that way but at least a person can sleep well at night knowing they have done the right thing.

 

[jigs]

I picked up 240 acres two years ago, the land was sold and the guy who farmed it for years was booted. I told the buyer it was for sale, the tenant is a neighbor and I had to keep quiet about me getting the land for a few months.... was VERY hard, and I felt dishonest, but dirt is like gold here.....and I know 3 neighbors have already talked to my landlord about booting me, but he is a pretty decent guy, so I hope to be on there for a while!

 

[Denny]

From what I've seen here is if the property owner was happy with their current rental situation you could'nt rent it for more money anyhow.If the property is up for rental and anyone can bid on it there should be no hard feelings on the loseing bidder's part.But if you go out and rent up ground that other's have expect to have it done to you in return.

I have just became a larger operator here over the last 5 years and f you don't step on a few toes along the way your going to be ranching a 100 miles from home in every direction.I have ran add's in our newspaper stateing the price I'm willing to pay.I rented two places the first time I had done this and both situation's the land owner's were very discusted with their previous situation.I still rent both of these properties and others have tried to rent them also.

I did rent a piece last year that was a sticky stuation the land owner/rancher sold the piece of land that adjoin's mine on a corner.In casual conversation with a neighbor he mentioned It was up for rent he also stated that another neighbor he did'nt want renting it had bid on it so he was going to put in a bid.After a couple weeks of thinking on it I decided to put out a bid also.When all was said and done I ended up getting it rented.The neighbor in turn went and rented a piece of ground I had been renting for 10 years.He's pissed at me which is a blessing as he's a user neighbor anyhow so It's all good.He is near 70 years old and prepping his electrician son to take over I figure them young guys should have to struggle a bit or they will never know what it's really like.

There has been land grab struggles as long as there have been cattle and ranchers.If the people are satisfied with you as a renter you will always have 1st chance to rent the land.That is why when a piece of ground comes up for rent I bid pretty high on it because who ever gets it most likely will be renting it 10 years from now or 20 or 30 thats how it is here.

The number one thing everyone need's to remember is the land belong's to the landowner.If they want the cows out on a certain day and thats stated in a contract they had better be out if it's a verbal deal and they want them gone before hunting season move'em.I have 4 of these type of pasture's3 of them they need to be moved by Oct 1st the other a day before deer opener.I have these pieces grazed well enough by the dates requested that it's time to move them anyhow.

I rent several pieces of ground where it's a widow woman who lives there but the kid's who don't have alot of say in what goes on.Therefore I need to keep everyone happy.Take time out to have coffee with these people and help them if they need something.We had one who broke her leg my daughter and I went and mowed her lawn one time.Covered another's sewer with hay for winter and cut a dead tree out of another's yard.It's the little thing's that keep your ground rented not normally the money.

AND PAY THEM ON THE DAY YOU SAY YOUR GOING TO.If I have to I will borrow the money for 30 days to get the rent's paid on time.These people depend on this money for their own bills don't short them or stretch them out 30,60,90 days.

Being in business I know how important it is to get paid on the day I need to.If someone string's me along for a week or two or more it used to shut us down completely.I could'nt buy steel, axel's or pay the help.Everything is very close in profit margins. I've gotten more buying power these last few years which makes it easier to sit on a new trailer for a few week's it can get a little tense but one phone call and I can cure that now, back then I could'nt.

So in most cases it's just Business Some people want it worse and will go after it.

 

[kolanuraven]

What happens when small community members end up with one taking a lease away from another? Is the guy who took it just doing business? .

It's just business.

If you wanted it....then you should have ponied up and made your claim . If not, then it goes to the highest bidder.


Bottom line....the $$$ rules in 99.9% of these cases as the rentor depends on that extra cash. It cost everyone more to live nowadays!

If something is for rent or for sale...same rules apply!

 

[Andy]

There is a fine line of it being a bussiness deal and people just being greedy. If ground is on the open market, anyone that wants it should put in a bid and not feel like there renting it out from under someone. If the landlord approaches you about renting his land don't feel bad about renting it away from a neighbor. There are a few large farmers around here that rent a lot of ground for 40-70 dollars and then will call other landowners and try and rent land away from neighbors for 100-120 and they can do that and it still averages out a reasonable rent. These people are just greedy and most locals wont work with them anymore.

 

[Shelly]

We have neighbours who'll go behind other peoples backs to try and get land that others have been renting. Or they'll try to buy it. Personally, I think it's low-down and rude. We rent land from a lady in B.C. My father-in-law had it first, and then we took over. So far she's happy with the deal, but we have learned through her uncle that these neighbours have been sniffing around trying to get it. She has talked to her uncle about it, and he has told her just to stay with us. He knows of the neighbours and has no use for them. They are just land hungry.

 

[CattleArmy]

Just wanting to make one small clarification. It wasn't up for lease the same man had it for years well as long as I can remember. The guy who took it went behind his back and did it. It wasn't up for lease, auction, or anything. As far as the gentleman who had it knew things were just fine.


Cutting some off at the pass who will say things weren't just fine if the guy was willing to lease to another. Amazing what heresay and the almighty dollar can do when it's snuck around. :wink:

 

[CattleArmy]

We have neighbours who'll go behind other peoples backs to try and get land that others have been renting. Or they'll try to buy it. Personally, I think it's low-down and rude. We rent land from a lady in B.C. My father-in-law had it first, and then we took over. So far she's happy with the deal, but we have learned through her uncle that these neighbours have been sniffing around trying to get it. She has talked to her uncle about it, and he has told her just to stay with us. He knows of the neighbours and has no use for them. They are just land hungry.

This sounds close to the situation.

 

[cutterone]

I've seen A--holes actually be in the waiting line of funerals and ask the widow if they could buy/rent their land.
If it's publicy open then I don't have a problen but when it's down and dirty I find it offensive. I think I saw a 60 minutes show about one neighbor killing a neighbor over land.

 

[DJL]

The same thing goes on here. We rent land, and have had it for 20 some years, first sub-renting, and then being approached by the owner to rent directly (which made the guy who was renting it, then sub-renting to us wildly angry), but hear fairly regularly of neighbors hoping to rent it or buy it, but fortunately for us, the guy is happy with our grass management and we've kept it. The other land we rent has just fallen into our laps; we didn't go looking for it, and the neighbors have been sniffing around in hopes of grabbing it out from under us too. I wouldn't say they are my favorite neighbors.......

 

[Mini Rancher]

My Aunt and Uncle lost some ground they had Rented for about 30 years. A neighbor stepped in, bought it right out from under them, they never knew it was for sale. Never even hinted it was sale.

 

[southwestcwby]

Well looks like most of you folks are good. I see there is only one who says business is business. I would dang sure hate to have ya for a neighbor.

I knew a gentlemen that had a 60 section lease and had it for the last 25 years well it was always known that when his agreement was up he was always a day or two late getting in there and signing the papers on it. Well one feller who had waited in the shadows for that very thing to happen slipped in there and took it away from him. Now thats dirty pool i don't care who you are thats just dirty. There is business and then there is greed and that my fine folks is GREED. You can tell allot about folks by laying in the shadows here and reading these posts.

 

[leanin' H]

If you don't have your honor and ethics, then you don't have much. If you are neighbors with somebody then your excpected to be a neighbor. And friend. A good samaratin! Out in this country our neighbors are like family. Now and then you get a bad one but they don't last. They usually fold at the first challenge. But it's in thier make up. Without your word and your ethics you are built with too many flaws too make it ranching . I know there are bad apples that seem to do all right, but i think most folks are good hearted and thats what draws em' to this vocation. If I could pick up pasture but had to be sneaky to do it, then it isnt worth it. If i talked to both sides and found the ethical way to lease it then i'd be all for it. To each thier own though. I aint trying to be preachy if some of ya'll feel differently. I just really believe a lot of our problems today start with stretching the boundaries of truth, fairness and the golden rule. If you'd not want it done to yourself, why would ya do it to another? :???:

 

[kolanuraven]

I see somebody left the door open & let the trash blow in AGAIN!!!!

 

[Mrs.Greg]

Theres always the kinda nieghbors that go behind backs,happens around here alot. Heck,our river land nieghbor was backstabbed by his own family members.

IF the renter is respecting the land and the owners wishes,that renters worth gold or would be to greg and I ... to others money talks.We've also seen where the renters will not respect the landowners wishes so really doesn't deserve the respect in return.

In the end,its the landowners decision and really no one else can really judge that decision

 

[Stretch]

"Back stabbing" I fight it all the time and have just basically resigned to the fact that almost every neighbor I have would run right over me and try for ground if they could. That is part of the reason that I haven't grown my own operation much right now. I feel that the big boom in grain prices and such is going to blow sky high and take a bunch of high rollers down in the next couple years. Land rent is high and getting higher by the day. Dryland farm ground is a 100.00 plus and irrigated is 200.00 plus and pasture is 150.00 a season. I have neighbors that will go to funerals and talk to the families to get weasled into a deal. I am taking the approach that do my best on what I have and be good to everyone and hope that something comes my way for now. As Cody gets bigger I suppose I will need to be more aggressive but this way I can sleep at night knowing I didn't crap all over someone to get where I am. I have gotten more into doing things for landowners that live a distance away and use the land for hunting and such and that has been a plus for my bottom line. Deep down I realize life is a lot like an auction if you want something you need to raise your hand and spend for it till you get it or keep your hands in your pockets and be happy with what you have..

 

[per]

The only truly safe land is deeded land. The neighbor can't rent it out from under you if you own it. The hard part to get your mind around is the fact that it doesn't always pay given the price of land. However in the long term the land speculation business has been good to us and I am glad the 3 generations before me also bought overpriced land.

 

[southwestcwby]

Its just best all around to be a good neighbor, what good is it when everyone around you is pissed off at you. That to me is not good business sense. You kinda want to get along with everyone around you because weather you know it or not sometime you are gonna need their help.

Funny how that one little ole lonely vote up there for the business is business choice is staying only one vote. :lol: must be someone who has never been around cow or farm folks or who has never had to help pull a neighbor out of the mud or had them do the same for you.

 

[nonothing]

I think the person who owns the land should be taken to task on this issue as well....If its about collecting more money for lease land, then the land owner should offer the lease holding tenat first right of refusal.....People need to have first right of refusal written into their lease agreement....This right only bieng a monitary issue ,for as a land owner you should have the right to control your land and what happens on it...If though the only issue is raising rent at the end of a lease the lease owner should get a chance to accept of move on....It is to bad the act of good faith in land dealing is no longer just a handshake...