When to give C&D shot to new borns?

[daisy.605]

My vet says to give the C & D shot to new born calves when they are 3 days old. I am wondering if a person can give it sooner after birth, so that I can catch them? I have a problem with them overeating and this Alpha C&D shot has stopped the deaths.

 

[James]

I give mine soon after birth when they are tagged which is 12 to 24 hrs. old

 

[jodywy]

I use Alpha C&D and usually day they are born

 

[Faster horses]

I'm curious. If you don't mind me asking, what are you feeding your cows that over-eating is a problem?

I have a suggestion. A diet of alfalfa and/or grain hay can lead to entertoxemia. Going to grass hay or grass hay with a small amount
of alfalfa helps that situation a lot.
Baby calves don't need a big blast of milk, causes more problems than not.
A diet lower in protein after calving will result in less milk production and the cow will 'come to her milk' as the calf grows and takes more.

FWIW

 

[101]

Alpha C&D helps us out and has for years, we also give C&D to our cows and seems to help us even more, Where we run them when their about a week old is on a native Western Wheat Grass pasture, that is only grazed in the spring, usually off by May 15 so usually a lot of old grass from year to year, has a creek thru it for our spring protection, some years we need to have Mag. out if the grass comes too fast! Good luck 101

 

[jodywy]

I'm curious. If you don't mind me asking, what are you feeding your cows that over-eating is a problem?

I have a suggestion. A diet of alfalfa and/or grain hay can lead to entertoxemia. Going to grass hay or grass hay with a small amount
of alfalfa helps that situation a lot.
Baby calves don't need a big blast of milk, causes more problems than not.
A diet lower in protein after calving will result in less milk production and the cow will 'come to her milk' as the calf grows and takes more.

FWIW

grass hay, it hits just as the meadows start greening up, found having mineral out helps too

 

[cowboykell]

We give the C&D shot at a month of age when we give the cows their pre-breeding shot. The cows have C&D in their scour shot and with the C&D at a month of age, we would still lose 2 or 3 every year. Last year we gave a Type A shot in addition to the C&D and never lost a calf. We gave both shots again at a month of age this year. Our vet says the calf's immune system isn't developed enough at a couple days old to provide protection, recommended the 30 day approach. Works for us.

 

[Howdy1]

Faster Horses,
It isn't always a nutrition thing. We get it the worst with older calves that have been thru some tough weather. They don't suck for a day or two and load up on milk when they find momma and bango they get enterotoxemia. Kills them very fast in not looking for it.

We give the C&D shot right after they are born when we tag anywhere from an hour of two after birth to a day later. Don't know if its right but works for us.

 

[Faster horses]

Faster Horses,
It isn't always a nutrition thing. We get it the worst with older calves that have been thru some tough weather. They don't suck for a day or two and load up on milk when they find momma and bango they get enterotoxemia. Kills them very fast in not looking for it.

We give the C&D shot right after they are born when we tag anywhere from an hour of two after birth to a day later. Don't know if its right but works for us.

Well, it's still nutrition, if the calf doesn't suck and gets a big charge of milk, right? Maybe you couldn't help the circumstances, but it was still nutrition or lack of for several hours.

We just fed grass hay and we had everything happen to us and more, that happened to everybody else that posts here. We eliminated overeating without giving shots. I'm not saying that works for everyone, but it was something that has worked for many. I just threw it out there as food for thought on what was being fed post-calving. We went through a horrendous 8 years of sick calves and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. We eliminated all our problems with good nutrition program and way less vaccinations. We quit vaccinating at branding except for blackleg, and of course that Vision 7 shot for blackleg also contains C&D. But we didn't give anything else and never noticed a difference. Our vet says the calves are too young at branding to utilize the vaccine for IBR, BVD, PI3, etc. so we stopped giving it til we preconditioned. BTW, he also says Alpha 7 and Vision 7 are the most effective blackleg/C&D brands to use.

I've learned sometimes you can look at the whole situation, not just one part, hence food for thought. I could give names of ranchers who cut the protein out of their feed post-calving and eliminated over-eating. In situations like Jody experiences, putting an old bale of hay, or even straw,
out for the cows really helps satisfy their dry-matter needs and cuts down
the amount of green grass they eat which in turns lowers milk production
which plays a big part in entertoxemia.

Maybe I'm too eager to help. Please excuse me.

 

[Big Swede]

Faster Horses,
It isn't always a nutrition thing. We get it the worst with older calves that have been thru some tough weather. They don't suck for a day or two and load up on milk when they find momma and bango they get enterotoxemia. Kills them very fast in not looking for it.

We give the C&D shot right after they are born when we tag anywhere from an hour of two after birth to a day later. Don't know if its right but works for us.

I used to lose about 1% a year to over eating even using Alpha 7 at birth when I calved in March and April. Since calving on grass the problem went away even though I don't give Alpha 7 at birth any more or give scour guard to the cows. I think it's because the cow and calf are always together, no storms to weather, more small meals per day. Nothing more frustrating than finding a big month old calf dead in the morning when they were perfectly healthy the night before.


I think it was rancher fred that suggested this might happen when moving to later calving. He was right.

 

[jodywy]

Friend over east of Sheridan Wyoming calves late Aug- Sept. warm fall rain in October and the cheat grass jumped ,they were dosing calves left and right with Penicillin and Antitoxin.... they lost a lot of calves that fall.

 

[Big Swede]

Friend over east of Sheridan Wyoming calves late Aug- Sept. warm fall rain in October and the cheat grass jumped ,they were dosing calves left and right with Penicillin and Antitoxin.... they lost a lot of calves that fall.

I would guess a flush of green after being on dry grass for a couple months might do that. That's too bad. Did it ever happen again? I've heard of grass tetany in those situations too.

 

[Faster horses]

Friend over east of Sheridan Wyoming calves late Aug- Sept. warm fall rain in October and the cheat grass jumped ,they were dosing calves left and right with Penicillin and Antitoxin.... they lost a lot of calves that fall.

It would be interesting to know their nutrition program. Were they
feeding mineral?

When we were at Buffalo, Wyoming, we had problems with Pulmonary Emphysema when we would bring cattle from dryland native pasture in the fall to irrigated meadows. That was
a lung problem caused from a change to lush, fast growing feed, particularly in the fall. But it didn't cause entertoxemia.

 

[daisy.605]

I'm curious. If you don't mind me asking, what are you feeding your cows that over-eating is a problem?

I have a suggestion. A diet of alfalfa and/or grain hay can lead to entertoxemia. Going to grass hay or grass hay with a small amount
of alfalfa helps that situation a lot.
Baby calves don't need a big blast of milk, causes more problems than not.
A diet lower in protein after calving will result in less milk production and the cow will 'come to her milk' as the calf grows and takes more.

FWIW

I normally feed them alfalfa and grass hay. The problem comes after a snow storm, when the calves are hunkered down and don't nurse like they would normally. When the storm passes, they over eat and die. I also give the cows scour boss shots prior to calving.

 

[Faster horses]

I'm curious. If you don't mind me asking, what are you feeding your cows that over-eating is a problem?

I have a suggestion. A diet of alfalfa and/or grain hay can lead to entertoxemia. Going to grass hay or grass hay with a small amount
of alfalfa helps that situation a lot.
Baby calves don't need a big blast of milk, causes more problems than not.
A diet lower in protein after calving will result in less milk production and the cow will 'come to her milk' as the calf grows and takes more.

FWIW

I normally feed them alfalfa and grass hay. The problem comes after a snow storm, when the calves are hunkered down and don't nurse like they would normally. When the storm passes, they over eat and die. I also give the cows scour boss shots prior to calving.

How much of that hay is alfalfa? I don't mean to beat a dead horse here,
but if you could feed straight grass hay after calving, I really think some of
your overeating problems would disappear. Alfalfa hay helps to create more milk production and baby calves just can't handle it. Grass hay is more like mother nature and milk production increases as the calves get bigger and can handle the milk. I realize Overeating can be a "good managers disease" but sometimes, we are killing with kindness. I'm not saying not to give the shot, I'm saying what might help to avoid the problem, or to cut down on the problem.

As a FWIW, I have an article that talks about cows' diets high in protein at breeding time. It was specific about the cattle being on cereal grain pastures that were 20% protein. There had been a problem getting the cows bred and research was done on the reason why. What was deducted from that study is that the
high protein in the diet upset the PH in the uterus. The eggs could not attach to the uterine wall. The cows cycled, but did not conceive. They ran the cows in different pastures at breeding time and solved the problem. I thought that was very interesting. It was written by Dr. Price as the Consulting Nutritionist for Beef Magazine some years back.

Good luck!

 

[tamarack]

Pardon my ignorance but what is a c and d shot ? We give our calves a scour vaccine at birth along with a d e selenium all by mouth and they get blackleg at a month when they go to pasture never seem to lose any by overeating.

 

[Faster horses]

Pardon my ignorance but what is a c and d shot ? We give our calves a scour vaccine at birth along with a d e selenium all by mouth and they get blackleg at a month when they go to pasture never seem to lose any by overeating.

It is commonly included in a 7 or 8-way Blackleg vaccine.

Here, this might help:

C & D Antitoxin Indications

Recommended for the prevention and treatment of enterotoxemia caused by Clostridium perfringens Types C and D in calves, cattle, lambs, sheep, and baby pigs.

This discussion began because daisy.605 wanted to know how soon
Alpha 7 (a blackleg vaccine with C&D) could be given after a calf was born
to help prevent overeating disease. You said you are giving it at a month of age. You apparently don't have a problem with enterotoxemia (overeating).

 

[jodywy]

Pardon my ignorance but what is a c and d shot ? We give our calves a scour vaccine at birth along with a d e selenium all by mouth and they get blackleg at a month when they go to pasture never seem to lose any by overeating.

Clostridium perfringens is a Gram-positive, rod-shaped, anaerobic, spore-forming bacterium of the genus Clostridium. C. perfringens is ever present in nature and can be found as a normal component of decaying vegetation, marine sediment, the intestinal tract of humans and other vertebrates, insects, and soil. It has the shortest reported generation time of any organism at 6.3 minutes in thioglycollate medium.

Seem we get hit after snow melt and calves are licking and eating dirt.... vaccination and mineral seems to help.

 

[cowmannd]

There is also a type A. One good way to prevent overeating is to supplement the cows with 500iu of Vit E. Start 60 days prior to calving. Neighbor give a AD&E shot to cows. I used to feed only 100iu of Vit E and then give Alpha C&D and still loose some. Now I might treat 1.

 

[tamarack]

Ok now I get it same as our blackleg shot some farmers give it at 2 or 3 days old and turn them out to pasture vet says it wont work because calves are too young but they figure it is better than nothing and they seem to have good luck so far.