White wings new graze

[Big Muddy rancher]

I been thinking about WW new place he showed us pictures of. He was talking about Bush hogging and improving the land. I have no experience with that kind of country but I was wondering how it would work to maybe just bush hog the fence lines and put up electric fence and mob graze the place. Would it work to multi-species graze goats with the cattle to help clean up the place.
The thing I don't like about bush hogging is it cost money and I don't see it fixing the problem which I see as grass stressed and weeds taking advantage of it.

Lets kick this around and since WW is the one that has the responsibility for the place we can't be wrong.

 

[gcreekrch]

Goats.

There are a couple of retired goat wranglers on here that might even take a months holiday and get WW started on proper herding techniques.

 

[burnt]

Goats.

There are a couple of retired goat wranglers on here that might even take a months holiday and get WW started on proper herding techniques.

I doubt that the oldest one would leave Texas though. And Venezuela is a loooong way from Utah. :wink:

 

[Denny]

My dad had a creek bottom he ran goats in for a few years they ate anything within reach.It sure cleaned it up.

 

[leanin' H]

I plan to take a months holiday but I won't be heading south! After putting you two smart butts in your place using a massive amount of beating with a stick, i'd have 29 days, 23 hours and 50 minutes to see the sights! :wink:

A brush beater has it's place to me. It works great to take out sage brush. It stresses the brush while allowing the grass to flourish. It doesnt do very well on rabbit brush though. But it may work for getting rid of Whitewings brush areas and spots that are uncompatable with intensive grazing.

 

[the_jersey_lilly_2000]

If done at the proper time it can help immensely in allowing the grass to flourish.

but....if from what I've seen of WhiteWing's place he's got started now.....it's most likely gonna end up planted in Coastal hay anyway :wink: He's got that plantin thing down to a science. As a matter of fact...we will be planting more acreage with coastal too.....he'd be more'n welcome to come do it for us if he so desires. LOL

 

[Red Barn Angus]

I wonder if he is in a place where he can burn the pasture in the spring. In these parts a good early spring fire does a lot of good in controlling brush and small trees. Of course chemicals will do some good too but they cost money.

 

[per]

Goats followed by pigs followed by cows followed by chickens.... repeat as necessary.

 

[little bow rancher]

just wondering how many species of tapping root plants there would be , being the climate there in and if livestock would be able to control that type of vegetation , but I have to agree , goats and sheep are most likely the way to go , we've been watching different types of plants in are area , weed's and such and seem to be able to control them to a certain degree with sheep.

 

[PATB]

I agree clear fence paths and but cattle and goats to work at high rates. The object is to destroy the brush and promote grass growth. If you use temp fencing you could always remove the fencing and bushhop the whole place after several passes with the animals. If there are times of the year you need to feed hay do so on the brush and it will disappear and become a patch of grass.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

I agree clear fence paths and but cattle and goats to work at high rates. The object is to destroy the brush and promote grass growth. If you use temp fencing you could always remove the fencing and bushhop the whole place after several passes with the animals. If there are times of the year you need to feed hay do so on the brush and it will disappear and become a patch of grass.

This is more what I was thinking. Letting the live stock do the work. I know he has access to labor but I haven't figured out yet why he has his cattle penned up so much hauling feed and not letting the animal do the harvesting.
The grazing would have to be a planned "Mob graze" to eat what they can and use the hoof action to incorporate the litter and fertilizer/manure.Then rest it to let the desirable grasses grow. I guess that is if there is desirable native grasses. :?

 

[the_jersey_lilly_2000]

I agree clear fence paths and but cattle and goats to work at high rates. The object is to destroy the brush and promote grass growth. If you use temp fencing you could always remove the fencing and bushhop the whole place after several passes with the animals. If there are times of the year you need to feed hay do so on the brush and it will disappear and become a patch of grass.

I don't know what type vegetation they have there as far as undesirable trees and bushes....but that doesn't work here. So it may not work there. Here if you want to get rid of that kind of stuff you either catch it when its small and bushhog it....or bull doze it and pile it up and burn it later. And we have some stuff that if you don't pile it up and burn it...it'll sprout from the cuttings left layin on the ground. You quickly learn which type do this...and avoid them with the bushhog. Go back in and spray each individual bush with chemicals to kill it....then follow up with the dozer.

And also...using goats may in fact just be spreading the weed seeds. We've found here the best method is to either bushhog it or spray with chemicals. We choose to bushhog because in the long run it ends up costing about the same. And there's no worries of havin to inhale or deal with the chemicals.

 

[balestabber]

i've heard the digestive tract of a animal does not affect the germination of weed seed.
hot wire does not work well here with sheep and goats.
water here is a problem in summer months.
but it is an option or an idea to ponder on.

 

[the_jersey_lilly_2000]

I wasn't saying that the digestive tract would make the seeds anymore fertile than they are to begin with. What I'm saying is....there may be places that are easily cleaned up....or weed free for that matter....but when you put in a herd of goats, cows, whatever then those seed may be spread to places that you don't want them, or that have less weeds. If it were me...my first thing to do would be to bushhog it. Then go from there on how to clear out the rest of the unwanted vegetation.

Hehe don'tcha love how we are workin Whitewing's place and he hasn't even posted on this thread :wink:

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

I wasn't saying that the digestive tract would make the seeds anymore fertile than they are to begin with. What I'm saying is....there may be places that are easily cleaned up....or weed free for that matter....but when you put in a herd of goats, cows, whatever then those seed may be spread to places that you don't want them, or that have less weeds. If it were me...my first thing to do would be to bushhog it. Then go from there on how to clear out the rest of the unwanted vegetation.

Does bush hogging not spread weed seeds?


Does rest and rotation not work in the southern climes? :?

 

[the_jersey_lilly_2000]

I wasn't saying that the digestive tract would make the seeds anymore fertile than they are to begin with. What I'm saying is....there may be places that are easily cleaned up....or weed free for that matter....but when you put in a herd of goats, cows, whatever then those seed may be spread to places that you don't want them, or that have less weeds. If it were me...my first thing to do would be to bushhog it. Then go from there on how to clear out the rest of the unwanted vegetation.

Does bush hogging not spread weed seeds?


Does rest and rotation not work in the southern climes? :?

If you have an area that has undesirables....and you shred. Alot of the time we will stop there and clean off the deck of the mower so that those seeds and junk aren't taken on itno areas that don't already have them. If you shred at the optimal time...before things go to seed...then you aren't spreading any seeds at all. But you are givin the grass the opportunity to then take over instead of the weeds.

And yes...rest and rotation works in the southern climes. But if left at rest too long....things take over real quick. Such as the acreage that Whitewing has aquired.

I've heard some of you northern folks talk about taking cows off and leaving a pasture for a year or two 'at rest'....here if you done that you'd have so many dew berry vines and other manner of junk growin that it wouldn't even be fun. You'd be amazed at how fast coons can start new persimmon thickets. Red and Black hawl bushes sprout up seems like almost over night, never ending battle. And if left ungrazed or unattended those things take over. And they have thorns that look like Jesus' crown of thorns on em.

 

[burnt]

. . . which I think illustrates the fact that what works well in one ecosystem is disastrous in another.

I've been to visit friends in the deep saooowwth (as in Mississippi) only a couple of times, but was greatly impressed how differently things grow there than in our more northerly climate in southern Ontario.

And going into the Big Muddy would be that much different again.

 

[the_jersey_lilly_2000]

Yeap it's true....what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another. And what I've stated may not work for Whitewing. But I think our climates are similar to some extent. But not knowing what kind of vegetation he's dealing with makes it rather difficult to come up with a solution. We aren't in his shoes......And from pictures that he's posted of his place....I think he's doin a great job of it. Some of the things he does with his cattle we may not understand. But if it's what works for him....more power to him. I'm looking forward to seeing the improvements on this new place and how it all works out.

And ya'll remember a while back him stating that diesel cost him .06 cents a gallon or somethin like that. I think bushhoggin would be his most economical method of weed controll with taking just that one factor into concideration. Nothin like what we pay for it here.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Oh I agree ,what works one place won't always work another. I am just questioning to get discussion going.
The two year rest is for more arid places and short growing seasons. Down south I am sure a quicker turn around would be needed.

I wish White wing would join in as We can speculate all we want but he is where the hoof meets the soil.

 

[little bow rancher]

yes , yes it would be nice to hear what white wing has to say