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Would you buy a twin bull?

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If you search the net, there have been quite a few studies on twinning in dairy and beef cattle. Twins are more common in Holsteins than most beef breeds.

If I was to select a herd for twinning, I would start on the maternal side and buy replacements that are dizygous fertile twins and/or carrying twins, preferably heifer twins. There is the freemartin issue. I would also select for bulls that are twins and keep their daughters.

In reality, in my situation I would not do this. This process should increase the beef cattle twinning rate from 1% to something greater.
 
George said:
Roundup said:
A human male carrying the "hyperovulation gene" could have influence on future twinning by passing it to his daughters.

Most twins are the result of hyperovulation, which means more than one egg is released for fertilization, they are not identical.

Occasionally, only one egg is released and it splits after fertilization and this may result in identical twins.

Twinning is far more complex than this. The point is, a sire can carry the hyperovulation gene and influence twinning in his daughters. This should be considered when adding bulls into the herd that are twins. They will not influence twinning in the unrelated cattle they breed, but they may in the daughters they help create.
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If there is a chance this is true it might prove interesting - - - I know it will be a few years down the road but I think I would like to see what happens - - - If I get no more tiwns than normall so be it.
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George---somebody--I think it was MARC ---http://www.ars.usda.gov/Main/docs.htm?docid=2340

bred up a line of 'twinners' quite a while ago---focusing on the 'twinning' w/o much emphasis on which beef breed. ABS used to sell 'twinning' semen, think they claimed a 30% or so twinning rate in the daughters.

I don't know if you AI--maybe somebody in your neighborhood does? If you plan ahead, pretty easy to feed some mga, put on some k-mars, shortens the heat detection and breeding to a few days. Works really good on heifers, no calves dragging them down or to contend with, you can lock them up and have them pretty handy for a few days. I havn't done it lately---know there's lotsa other ways, i like this method as minimum working and drugs, operate on 'KISS' as much as i can....you do gotta start program quite a bit ahead---first heat is not very fertile one---hey, i see woods in your pics--do YOU got any shine or know any banjo pickers--? WV ain't got back to me yet....... :p 8)
 
Roundup said:
If you search the net, there have been quite a few studies on twinning in dairy and beef cattle. Twins are more common in Holsteins than most beef breeds.

If I was to select a herd for twinning, I would start on the maternal side and buy replacements that are dizygous fertile twins and/or carrying twins, preferably heifer twins. There is the freemartin issue. I would also select for bulls that are twins and keep their daughters.

In reality, in my situation I would not do this. This process should increase the beef cattle twinning rate from 1% to something greater.
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In the dairy industry twinning isnt a real issue since the calf is just a byproduct of milk production.

In the beef industry a live healthy calf at birth and weaning is the goal. Because of inherent problems with twins it has been culled for heavily.

It honestly scares me that so many would be in favor of it. If a person has nurse cows and a small acreage that is easily managed a set of twins is'nt such a bad deal. A person who runs cattle on a few thousand acres though could run into some serious problems. Alot of times one or both twins will be significantly weaker when born than a single calf. Sometimes a cow will only pay attention to one and leave the other to starve. It is also harder on the cow. Although alot of people have some cows with high milk production, most beef cattle genetics only allow for milk production for one calf.

We start calving in a couple of weeks and some years it is a real bear when mother nature comes into play. Having several sets of twins would be a disaster. Usually when we have twins, or anyone else around here for that matter, one if not both twins will die. You pretty much bank on trying like crazy to save one knowing the other wont make it. Does'nt mean that we dont try, but it usually dont work that way. If one of ours has twins, she is gone by fall. I sure hope this twin thing does'nt catch on.

Tex
 
As a Simmental breeder i have experienced a twin rate of around 10% on pureberd &4%on commercial cows.this year has started out with 2 set so far out of 12 cows done so far out of different pastures one was a commercial hhr.bred red angus.the other was a bought comm.cow bred to my herdsire.for the pb. cows.the red simmental seem to have fewer twins than the fleckvieh types just my observation. I'm no expert
 
I went back thru my records and in 2006 and 2007 I had almost 50% twins / all thrived - - - none of which were the same sex so I'm assuming the cows produced 2 eggs.

I got by with it easily as my 8 pastures are from 6 to 8 acres and will easily keep 25 cows for a week before moving. Cow is rarely over 100 yards from water. Most of my pastures have a cutting of hay taken before the cows see it each year.

I have not had a set of twins since 2007 - - - all of the cows that had the twins have been replaced, mostly due to old age. I had purchased them all from the same breeder in 2003 as a mature herd. He has retired ( that's why I got the herd ) but I sure liked the twins.

At my age if I start selecting for heifers out of a twin bull now my grandchildren might have a great time later.

I know it could be a real pain if your conditions cause a cow to work harder, she might not be able to care for both calves or she might not breed back due to the strain. You need the cattle to best suit your conditions.

I know my situation is not typical for the industry but it sure works for me. But then you can't touch an acre of ground for under $3,000.00 and if it can be row cropped it is $5,000.00 and up.

In a normal year we can get 225+ bushels of corn at 17% moisture or 7+ tons of hay or 20+ tons of silage so the cows have it very easy.
 
George, I'm not being a smart aleck, but our corrals and working facilities are almost as big as your pastures. Where the cows are now is about a 3000 acre pasture that has places in it only a horse can go. Aot of places in that pasture a cow may have to go over a mile for water.

Believe me, I am glad that having twins has not been a detriment to you. As big as some of these places are, having a high percentage of twins would be catastrophic. I truly hope this trend does'nt become more mainstream. I think this something that will eventually bite the behind of those promoting it. We have all seen certain traits come and go in the horse industry and it usually took great effort to eradicate something that some promoter tried to get everyone to by into. I have a felling this may be the same way.

Tex
 
tumbleweed_texn said:
George, I'm not being a smart aleck, but our corrals and working facilities are almost as big as your pastures. Where the cows are now is about a 3000 acre pasture that has places in it only a horse can go. Aot of places in that pasture a cow may have to go over a mile for water.

Believe me, I am glad that having twins has not been a detriment to you. As big as some of these places are, having a high percentage of twins would be catastrophic. I truly hope this trend does'nt become more mainstream. I think this something that will eventually bite the behind of those promoting it. We have all seen certain traits come and go in the horse industry and it usually took great effort to eradicate something that some promoter tried to get everyone to by into. I have a felling this may be the same way.

Tex
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That was the point I was trying to make - - - Twins work good HERE

I would probably hate them in your conditions. I doubt your cattle would work in Canada as well as they do for you.
 
Don't get me wrong i'm no hobbyist.my family has calved out approx 150 head /year for the past 40 years .twins can be and are alot of extra work.they can sure help balance the death loss situation at weaning time.i have had cows raise their twins in the last few years as will no other suitable cow became available after the twins were born.the last 2 sets of twins weaned off at over700#each on bush pasture.i have sold several twin bulls over the years with the buyer well aware and have recived no negative feedback.I WOULD BUY A TWIN BULL.AND NOT WORRY ABOUT IT.
 
I've Gotta fess up, I'm pretty well educated about twins. Got a set living in our house and my wife did a lot of reasearch in the "why me!" stage of her pregnacy.
I personally think its something in the water, there's four sets of twins on our school bus.
 
Take the twins this year and either put the extra on a cow that lost one or sell the other as a bottle calf and consider it as bonus.

I've used a twin bull before. No biggy

The only thing is the actual birthweight is meaningless. I know a guy bought a twin and thought he had a heifer bull..he didn't
 
George said:
I went back thru my records and in 2006 and 2007 I had almost 50% twins / all thrived - - - none of which were the same sex so I'm assuming the cows produced 2 eggs.

I got by with it easily as my 8 pastures are from 6 to 8 acres and will easily keep 25 cows for a week before moving. Cow is rarely over 100 yards from water. Most of my pastures have a cutting of hay taken before the cows see it each year.

I have not had a set of twins since 2007 - - - all of the cows that had the twins have been replaced, mostly due to old age. I had purchased them all from the same breeder in 2003 as a mature herd. He has retired ( that's why I got the herd ) but I sure liked the twins.

At my age if I start selecting for heifers out of a twin bull now my grandchildren might have a great time later.

I know it could be a real pain if your conditions cause a cow to work harder, she might not be able to care for both calves or she might not breed back due to the strain. You need the cattle to best suit your conditions.

I know my situation is not typical for the industry but it sure works for me. But then you can't touch an acre of ground for under $3,000.00 and if it can be row cropped it is $5,000.00 and up.

In a normal year we can get 225+ bushels of corn at 17% moisture or 7+ tons of hay or 20+ tons of silage so the cows have it very easy.
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" You need the cattle to best suit your conditions. " George, that's a sentence with a great deal of wisdom in it. Trying to make the ranch fit the cows can be expensive.
 

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