1st day of Leachman animal abuse trial
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Thanks for the link, Big Muddy. That 'use' of HSUS, one of the worst enemies of food animal producers is only one incidence of an ag group 'partning' with other groups dangerous to our freedom to operate farms and ranches.
Just one other which comes to mind are the WaterKeepers, a virulent 'environmental' seeking control of water in the country, if not the world.
Callicrates' statement that HSUS are not against eating meat should give none of us ANY comfort whatsoever!
mrj
Just one other which comes to mind are the WaterKeepers, a virulent 'environmental' seeking control of water in the country, if not the world.
Callicrates' statement that HSUS are not against eating meat should give none of us ANY comfort whatsoever!
mrj
TexasBred
Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
OT that is a very good question I often wonder about as well but it's true. The same for attorney's. I've seen both attorneys and expert witnesses testify one way in one case today and a month latter the attorney will be representing the "other side" in an identical case and have the same expert witnesses testifying 180 degrees opposite of what they said in the previous case. All they have to do is rearrange the numbers etc. You should know as a former law inforcement officer than even YOU can make evidence say what you want it to say in court.
And for the last time I'm not a right wingnut....I'm just a very conservative citizen who has voted both democrat and republican many times my life very concerned about the future of my country.
TexasBred
Well-known member
Oldtimer said:So are you saying you think the Yellowstone County Sheriffs Dept, Montana Dept. of Livestock, Yellowstone County Attornies Office, BIA, etal all conspired together and paid expert witness's to railroad old Leachman... :???:
You have been living too long in wingernut conspiracy land... :roll::lol: :lol:
All I'm saying is that ALL expert witnesses are paid. Do you think they will testify contrary to what the side that hired them wants and expects?? Not if they want to be "hired" again. The "expert" for the other side is saying just the opposite....so one is always lieing. But it doesn't matter because it's just whoever is the most convincing.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Lonecowboy said:
Anyone that works with livestock knows that they get injured- and they die- for multiple reasons which are usually beyond anyones control....
Those 5 head are not all the animals within that herd that died or were injured--just those they were sure of they could show that were injured by the lack of proper care .. If I remember right- at one time they looked at lots more counts- but narrowed it down to those....
And I don't think the number of dead animals was ever or could ever be determined...
This isn't any little Texas back 40-- these horses ran in thousands and thousands of acres of rough country on/near the Crow Rez (land he was trespassing on)- so getting a true count of the dead would be extremely difficult....
Lonecowboy
Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Hittin it a little bit hard tonight are we?
When you sober up go look at that site again- that is just what the government killed working them- NOT how many died on the range.
You big government, liberty hating, libertarians get a little bit sensitive don't you?
A
Anonymous
Guest
Lonecowboy said:Oldtimer said:Lonecowboy said:
Hittin it a little bit hard tonight are we?
When you sober up go look at that site again- that is just what the government killed working them- NOT how many died on the range.
You big government, liberty hating, libertarians get a little bit sensitive don't you?
You sound like one of those bunny hugging nudenik PETA girls now.......Definitely sounds like you have never worked with wild horses...
Your site is about some roundup in California and nothing to do with this one as you try to make it sound...
You and the Texans slap at the Sheriff's and Livestock Detectives and Stock Inspectors does make me a little sensitive....Makes me wonder why you two hate enforcement folks- and/or authority :???:
littlejoe
Well-known member
Big ego, former hi-flyer, abandoned about 1,000 head of horses on land he don't own, for a year or so...
Is that a pwoblum?
http://www.wimp.com/brainsurgeon/
Is that a pwoblum?
http://www.wimp.com/brainsurgeon/
Was OT not at one time a judge?
The thought of someone like him sitting on the bench in judgment of others sends shivers down my spine.
I've never seen someone so full of himself for his "40+ years of law enforcement experience", who with only tiny bits of information can make sweeping statements about the character, integrity, and motives of others.
If OT once wore the badge of "authority", then yeah, everyone is wise to question authority.
The thought of someone like him sitting on the bench in judgment of others sends shivers down my spine.
I've never seen someone so full of himself for his "40+ years of law enforcement experience", who with only tiny bits of information can make sweeping statements about the character, integrity, and motives of others.
If OT once wore the badge of "authority", then yeah, everyone is wise to question authority.
Lonecowboy
Well-known member
Oldtimer said:Lonecowboy said:Oldtimer said:Hittin it a little bit hard tonight are we?
When you sober up go look at that site again- that is just what the government killed working them- NOT how many died on the range.
You big government, liberty hating, libertarians get a little bit sensitive don't you?
You sound like one of those bunny hugging nudenik PETA girls now.......Definitely sounds like you have never worked with wild horses...
Your site is about some roundup in California and nothing to do with this one as you try to make it sound...
You and the Texans slap at the Sheriff's and Livestock Detectives and Stock Inspectors does make me a little sensitive....Makes me wonder why you two hate enforcement folks- and/or authority :???:
Your a special kinda stupid oldtimer.
I don't hate good government- just tyranical government.
When government holds people to higher standards than they themselves are held to then we no longer have Liberty or Justice- we have Tyranny.
And that I will fight all day long.
I am NOT defending Leachman - just condeming government double standards.
When you have LIVEstock the only other alternative is DEADstock- All stockmen pencil in a certain ammount of death loss- it's just the way it is.
The cost of doing business.
Don't use a different yardstick to measure with just cause is government.
oldtimer wrote
You and the Texans slap at the Sheriff's and Livestock Detectives and Stock Inspectors does make me a little sensitive....Makes me wonder why you two hate enforcement folks- and/or authority
Could it have anything to do with YOU, and your KNOW it all attitude????
You know the i know someone who knew someone who's 3rd cousin slept with someone who knows this as a fact?????
EH R2??????
You and the Texans slap at the Sheriff's and Livestock Detectives and Stock Inspectors does make me a little sensitive....Makes me wonder why you two hate enforcement folks- and/or authority
Could it have anything to do with YOU, and your KNOW it all attitude????
You know the i know someone who knew someone who's 3rd cousin slept with someone who knows this as a fact?????
EH R2??????
TexasBred
Well-known member
hopalong said:oldtimer wrote
You and the Texans slap at the Sheriff's and Livestock Detectives and Stock Inspectors does make me a little sensitive....Makes me wonder why you two hate enforcement folks- and/or authority
Could it have anything to do with YOU, and your KNOW it all attitude????
You know the i know someone who knew someone who's 3rd cousin slept with someone who knows this as a fact?????
EH R2??????
Hate law enforcement?? Never. But being an officer of the law or a livestock inspector hardly qualifies you to be an expert witness in any trial.
There's a difference in a "witness" and an "EXPERT witness". That's why they charge OT......surely you charged if you were called to be an "expert witness"?? If not you left a world of money on the table. Guess nobody bothered to tell you about it. Why the hell do you think these people would even want to testify at a trial ??? Not as a public service....its about MONEY !!!!!
A
Anonymous
Guest
TexasBred said:hopalong said:oldtimer wrote
You and the Texans slap at the Sheriff's and Livestock Detectives and Stock Inspectors does make me a little sensitive....Makes me wonder why you two hate enforcement folks- and/or authority
Could it have anything to do with YOU, and your KNOW it all attitude????
You know the i know someone who knew someone who's 3rd cousin slept with someone who knows this as a fact?????
EH R2??????
Hate law enforcement?? Never. But being an officer of the law or a livestock inspector hardly qualifies you to be an expert witness in any trial.
There's a difference in a "witness" and an "EXPERT witness". That's why they charge OT......surely you charged if you were called to be an "expert witness"?? If not you left a world of money on the table. Guess nobody bothered to tell you about it. Why the hell do you think these people would even want to testify at a trial ??? Not as a public service....its about MONEY !!!!!
WRONG again Texan- In MT you only have to show that you have knowledge on the subject above that of the normal/average person be allowed by the Judge to testify as an "expert"...Education, training, knowledge, and experience in a given field are the factors that render a witness competent to testify as an expert and qualified to give an opinion on a subject within the scope of his or her expertise, rather than any licensing by the state.... Usually once certified by one court- that precedence makes being certified by other courts much easier...
I was certified as an "expert" to testify several times - but since it came as part of my standard professional job description could/would not charge more... State Crime Lab- Brand Inspectors- Detectives- Medical Examiners- FBI experts all testify as just a part of their job -- and get nothing more...
Its the whore professional witness's that will testify anyway an attorney wants that try to charge the huge fees-- which is also what makes their testimony that much less credible... Most are used by the defense to try and create enough of a smoke screen to raise a reasonable doubt...
I don't know of anyone in this trial that was used by the prosecution that would have been a "paid expert"....No fee/wage more than their normal wage... The Defense may have had to pay for Leachmans Missouri friends costs/testimony...
TexasBred
Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
It's the whore law enforcement people who testify simply to get a conviction regardless of the evidence. People are being released right and left based on "new evidence"....some having served 30 years or more due to the prosecution being less than truthful. To be perfectly honest you don't have the information at your disposal to know if the people who testified fo the state were paid or not. Keep in mind OT taht regardless of which side the "expert witneses" testify, by definition they are still "experts" regardless of how much they charge. Maybe the thought is "the more expensive they are the more "expert" they are in the field"?? After reading hundreds of your post I would be scared to death to see you walk into a court room as an expert witness for either side. Someone with no morals or ethics is a nightmare for everyone. You never know how many times they have "whored" themselves since they accepted your fee. [/u][/b]
Larrry
Well-known member
Exactly, but you have those that whore themselves for money and some for a little fifteen minutes of fame.
Mike
Well-known member
Over zealous Prosecutor with a Political Agenda=Mike Nifong
TexasBred
Well-known member
Larrry said:
"Keep the money....just make sure my pic is in the write up and my name mentioned several times......you owe me one Mr. D.A."
