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9/11 Truthers thread

lightninboy

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UA Flight 93
1996 Boeing 757-222
N591UA

AA Flight 77
1991 Boeing 757-223
N644AA

UA Flight 175
1983 Boeing 767-222
N612UA

AA Flight 11
1987 Boeing 767-223ER
N334AA

http://aviation-safety.net/database/dblist.php?Year=2001&lang=&page=2


Fleet lists

http://www.geocities.com/~aeromoe/fleets/


Thus, in all probability, the oldest trick in the manuals of covert military ops was used: smokescreens. In reality, the towers were most likely enveloped in thick smoke (military obscurants) as they collapsed - and no real footage exists of that brief event. Thankfully - for all normal people of this world - the 9/11 planners hired a poorly skilled animation crew : in their efforts to simulate reality, their crass 'artistry' and countless mistakes provide ample and repeatable proof of the trickery - forever engraved in the TV archives.

The 9/11 TV broadcasts were designed to 'sell' a fictitious terror attack to the world-- by replacing the real-life events of the day (the WTC demolitions) with fake imagery.

WHAT ABOUT THE "AMATEUR" VIDEOS ?
All the other videos (endlessly replayed on TV) were released only later. They have all been extensively analyzed by scores of video analysts; each and every video snippet of "amateur imagery" has been methodically dissected and compared - and empirically proved to be nothing else than computer-generated fabrications.

HOW WERE PRIVATE VIDEOS IMPEDED ?
NO private photography of the real-life events was allowed: thus, the imagery aired by the TV networks feared no comparison and was passed off as reality.
Down below documentary "September Clues" did frame-by-frame analysis of all 911 footage, and come to conclusion the planes NEVER EXISTED, they were simple 2d cutouts over-imposed over live footage, there was a number of inconsistencies and mistakes due to this, there is even some footage where they literally FORGOT to include the planes, there is footage of the gashes clearly being made by demolition charges in the shape of a plane without a plane ever hitting it.
Once you see this video, you can never ever believe that there were planes in 911.

Whats about the airplanes victims and witnesses?
Back in 2009 "September Clues" had brought the series of remarkable discoveries in the collection of victim stories. What began as an insightful look at the CNN.com 9/11 Victim Memorial, the original source of the death reports, turned into realization after realization that the entire body of victims - from the airplanes, to the Pentagon, to the World Trade Center - had all been created at the same time by an "identity generating" software program which creates 'digital' people with (oft improbable) fictitious names.

http://www.ufo-blogger.com/2011/05/911-planes-never-existed-september.html


Dulles Airport is only 20 miles from the Pentagon. So it is insane to believe that the "hijackers", who started from Dulles Airport, waited until they were some 300 miles away from their target, the Pentagon, before hijacking the aircraft, turning it around and retracing their path back to the Pentagon. This would give the US Air Force over 40 minutes to get fighter aircraft up to investigate, and if necessary, shoot them down.

http://guardian.150m.com/pentagon/small/911-flights.htm


No-Planes" is easily dismissed by those who cannot - or will not - take the time to undertake that work, leading them to dive for the 'safety' (but irrationality) of 'hugging planes'.

The So-Called Planes

Well, there were four of them, we are told. Here are the established facts about them (based on what we have been told):

AA11, Tail Number N334AA, no entries in the BTS Database for 11th September 2001, de-registered 14th January 2002
AA77, Tail Number N644AA, no entries in the BTS Database for 11th September 2001, de-registered 14th January 2002
UA175, Tail Number N612UA, does have entries in the BTS Database for 11th September 2001, de-registered 28th September, 2005
UA93, Tail Number N591UA, does have entries in the BTS Database for 11th September 2001, de-registered 28th September, 2005

What is immediately curious about this is:

a) The lack of entries, in the BTS Database, for the American Airlines flights is indicative that they did not actually exist. Therefore, before proving that AA11 hit the North Tower, and that AA77 hit the Pentagon, their very existence needs to be proved. And no such proof has ever been forthcoming. But that doesn't worry the UNTruthers. However it does worry the No-planers.

b) The fact that American Airlines decided to de-register both of their craft on the same day is indicative of a 'sudden realisation' that 'maybe they ought to do that'. After all, they should have done it by midday on the 12th September, 2001 (by law). (If the 'planes' were real, that is). Or could it be that N334AA & N644AA carried on in service, were old, and were, indeed, de-commissioned in January 2002 in case some 'plane-spotting Anorak' noticed?

c) Similarly (b) applies to United Airlines, except that their own 'realisation' took more than three more years. Or could it be that 4 more years of service were squeezed out of N612UA & N591UA, before someone decided that 'some plane-spotting Anorak' might just notice? (Actually one did, and pasted up a photo of N591UA taken during 2003. But that disappeared very quickly)

The Bureau of Transport Statistics' entries are automatically computer-collected. Adding false entries is readily possible of course. Deleting entries is much more problematic, because all references and linkages to it have to be accurately removed, in order to coincide. How often have you clicked a link in a Webpage and been returned "Error 404. URL not found"? Here the target has been deleted, but the link (the reference) still remains, which indicates its prior existence. That's the problem with deletion. Other linkages indicate a 'prior existence'. In the case of AA11 & AA77 'other linkages' cannot be found. Either the deletion was unbelievably thorough, or there never existed anything to delete.

The No-Planes Position is that flights AA11 & AA77 are not even proved, whereas it is accepted that flights UA93 & UA175 existed, and took off. No-planers do not, necessarily agree that both of these flights contained any passengers. On balance they accept that UA93 most probably contained passengers. And, in all probability, all of them.

Shanksville

While, on the one hand No-planers accept that UA93 existed, and took off, they do not agree that it crashed in Shanksville, Pennsylvania. A critical analysis of the "Shanksville hole" completely refutes any contention of a commercial airliner crashing there.
As for Flight 93, the information in Loose Change, 2nd Edition is considered likely to be correct. In other words that UA93 landed in Cleveland Ohio, reporting "a bomb on board". It is likely that any passengers were taken to the disused NASA Hanger and 'never seen again' (until their DNA was examined. This explains how there was actually some DNA available for pathological examination).

The North Tower hit

The North Tower was probably hit by 'something'. Some 'flying object'. But this was certainly not a commercial airliner.
The major piece of impact evidence comes, of course, from the Fireman's Video taken by the Naudet brothers. This has been very carefully assessed.

The South Tower 'hit'

Unlike the case of the North Tower, the word 'hit' is here in quotes.
This was the one everyone saw on television, so it must have been a plane.
No. What you 'saw' on television was a 'cartoon'. A Computer-Generated Image. Known as a CGI for short. Its called "Cartoon175" in No-plane-speak.

http://www.veronicachapman.com/links/NoPlanes.htm
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I have watched September clues many times...they make a very good argument that no planes hit the twin towers...from my study, i believe that planes did hit the towers but they were military planes that were remote controlled...we know no commercial airlines hit the towers....impossible for the experience of the supposed hijackers...

flight 93 was shot down by our military...guaranteed and could be proven in court...

pentagon was hit by missile...this can be proven in court as well...
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
9/11 was an inside govt job with help of mossad...this much is clear...
 

lightninboy

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Why Propaganda Trumps Truth
By Paul Craig Roberts
10-4-2009

Researchers examined why big lies succeed where little lies fail. Governments can get away with mass deceptions, but politicians cannot get away with sexual affairs.

The researchers explain why so many Americans still believe that Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11, years after it has become obvious that Iraq had nothing to do with the event.

In Mein Kampf, Hitler explained the believability of the Big Lie as compared to the small lie.

What the sociologists and Hitler are telling us is that by the time facts become clear, people are emotionally wedded to the beliefs planted by the propaganda and find it a wrenching experience to free themselves. It is more comfortable, instead, to denounce the truth-tellers than the liars whom the truth-tellers expose.

The psychology of belief retention even when those beliefs are wrong is a pillar of social cohesion and stability.

The staying power of the Big Lie is the barrier through which the 9/11 Truth Movement is finding it difficult to break. The assertion that the 9/11 Truth Movement consists of conspiracy theorists and crackpots is obviously untrue. The leaders of the movement are highly qualified professionals, such as demolition experts, physicists, structural architects, engineers, pilots, and former high officials in the government. Unlike their critics parroting the government's line, they know what they are talking about.

Are you able to watch the presentation without scoffing at someone who knows far more about it than you do? What is your response when you find that you cannot defend your beliefs against the evidence presented? Scoff some more? Become enraged?

I have asked on several occasions and have never had an answer, which does not mean that there isn't one, how millions of pieces of unburnt, uncharred paper can be floating over lower Manhattan from the destruction of the WTC towers when the official explanation of the destruction is fires so hot and evenly distributed that they caused the massive steel structures to weaken and fail simultaneously so that the buildings fell in free fall time just as they would if they had been brought down by controlled demolition.

Access to thermite is strictly controlled and NO ONE except the US military and possibly Israel has access to nano-thermite.

The physicist, Steven Jones, has produced overwhelming evidence that explosives were used to bring down the buildings. His evidence is not engaged, examined, tested, and refuted. It is simply ignored.

What I find puzzling is the people I know who do not believe a word the government says about anything except 9/11.

The problem faced by truth is the emotional needs of people. With 9/11 many Americans feel that they must believe their government so that they don't feel like they are being unsupportive or unpatriotic, and they are very fearful of being called "terrorist sympathizers."

Naive people think that if the US government's explanation of 9/11 was wrong, physicists and engineers would all speak up. Some have (see above). However, for most physicists and engineers this would be an act of suicide. Physicists owe their careers to government grants, and their departments are critically dependent on government funding.

An engineering firm that spoke out would never again be awarded a government contract. In addition, its patriotic, flag-waving customers would regard the firm as a terrorist apologist and cease to do business with it.

In New York today there is an enormous push by 9/11 families for a real and independent investigation of the 9/11 events. Tens of thousands of New Yorkers have provided the necessary signatures on petitions that require the state to put the proposal for an independent commission up to vote. However, the state, so far, is not obeying the law.

Why are the tens of thousands of New Yorkers who are demanding a real investigation dismissed as conspiracy theorists? The 9/11 skeptics know far more about the events of that day than do the uninformed people who call them names. Most of the people I know who are content with the government's official explanation have never examined the evidence. Yet, these no-nothings shout down those who have studied the matter closely.

http://www.rense.com/general87/whyof.htm
 

hypocritexposer

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9/11 Truthers thread



All 2 of you......


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The 11 Most Compelling 9/11 Conspiracy Theories
May 2, 2011

Let’s pretend this is David Letterman.

Number 11! Inside Traders Knew About Attacks Before They Happened!
Right before the September 11th attacks some fishy business happened within the stock market and insurance firms. An “extraordinary” amount of put options were placed on United Airlines and American Airlines stocks, the same airlines that were hijacked during the attacks.

Number 10! Air Defense Was Told To “Stand Down”!
Some skeptics believe NORAD commanded defense systems to “Stand-down”, because of their lack of presence during the attacks.

Number 9! Planes Didn’t Make Twin Towers Collapse: Bombs Did!
The World Trade Center collapse appeared similar to a controlled demolition. Many architects and scientists even maintain that a plane’s fuel cannot produce enough heat to melt the steel frame of the two buildings that collapsed.

Number 8! The Pentagon Attack Scientifically Doesn’t Hold Up!
Theorists maintain that the impact holes in the pentagon were much smaller then a commercial American Airlines plane.

Number 7! Flight 93 Was Completely Staged!
Skeptics believe that Flight 93 landed safely, while a substitute plane was shot out of the sky. Other theorists believe that the passengers were murdered or relocated, and will never be found.

Number 6! Hijackers Are Alive! How Did Their Passports Survive Explosion??!!
After the September 11th attacks, the “Loose Change” documentary stated that all of the hijackers were in fact alive in other countries. In the aftermath of the attacks, passports and identification were found as evidence. Many skeptics question how identification made out of paper survived an explosion, which destroyed buildings.

Number 5! Cell Phone Calls Made From Plane Were Faked!
Scientists and skeptics maintain that cell phones could not receive reception from the altitude the planes typically fly.

Number 4! Jewish People Knew Attack Was Going To Happen And Took Off Work On September 11th!
Theorists noticed that 4,000 Jewish employees took off from work on September 11th 2001. Some of the first people to record the attacks on camera were Jewish also.

Number 3! Black Boxes Found By Search Crew Were Kept Secret!
Skeptics believe the tapes were not disclosed in order to support the secret scheme.

The Number 2 Most Compelling 9/11 Conspiracy Theory! The Bin Laden Tapes Are Fake!
Initially, Osama Bid Laden denied any responsibility or involvement with the attacks. Soon afterwards, numerous tapes came out claiming that he took full responsibility on the attacks. Many skeptics believe that Bin Laden was targeted because of his stakes in the stocks as well as former President George W. Bush’s personal business ventures in the Middle East.

And The Number 1 Most Compelling 9/11 Conspiracy Theory! Aluminum Planes Can’t Penetrate The Steel Structure Of The World Trade Center!
Commercial airplanes’ frames are constructed with a very light aluminum material, in order to make it easier to fly.

Ever notice that you can smash a beer can against most any other surface?

So, there, ladies and gentlemen, there you have The 11 Most Compelling 9/11 Conspiracy Theories!

http://newsone.com/newsone-original/samalesh/the-11-most-compelling-911-conspiracy-theories/
 

lightninboy

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04/28/09 (PilotsFor911Truth.org) – Recently it has been brought to our attention that Air Traffic Control (ATC) transcripts reveal United 93 as being airborne after it’s alleged crash. Similar scenarios have been offered with regard to American 77 and American 11 showing an aircraft target continuing past its alleged crash point in the case of American 11, or past the turn-around point in the case of American 77. However, both these issues can be easily explained by “Coast Mode” radar tracking. This is not the case with United 93.

Radar Coast Mode activates when a transponder is inoperative (or turned off) and primary radar tracking is lost, which enables ATC to have some sort of reference of the flight after losing radar coverage of the physical aircraft. When an aircraft target enters “Coast Mode”, ATC is alerted in the form of a blue tag on the target as well as the tag letters switching to CST. ATC will readily recognize when an aircraft enters “Coast Mode”.

It is impossible for ATC to have observed United 93 transponder and altitude after the reported impact time and southeast of the crash site, if United 93 did in fact crash in Shanksville as the 9/11 Commission would have you believe.

http://911caper.com/2010/05/09/united-93-still-airborne-after-alleged-crash-according-to-atcradar/


What really happened in Shanksville?

However different eyewitnesses to the crash report that parts of the plane were falling away midair and later plane parts were actually found 6 to 8 miles from the crash site. Several eyewitnesses also reported seeing a second plane in the area that morning. One without any markings.

The site of the crash was also remarkable for its lack of debris. Like the mysteriously missing plane at the Pentagon, Flight 93 seemed to disappear into an abandoned mine shaft.

Raising additional questions is the fact that there was a second crash site several miles away that was not generally reported in the media.

Wayne Madsen, a free-lance journalist, maintains that two planes were shot down in Shanksville on 9/11 – a Global Hawk and Flight 93. If that is the case, that would account for the lack of debris at the ‘official site’ and the second investigation area which was sealed off from public view.

http://911caper.com/2010/03/13/what-really-happened-in-shanksville/


Shanksville forest mostly burned after 9/11?
Updated: 12/30/06

Take a look again at the scope of the burnt forest section next to the fake crater in this FBI aerial taken on Sept. 12 that looks like it was taken sometime in the morning based on the shadows casted towards the west:

I had previously speculated that all this fire damage resulted from something the military launched to crash on to the fake crater to simulate fire damage to it, but it accidentally bounced up off the ground and landed on this section of forest and that’s how some of the tops of the trees there got broken and how that section got burned even though it’s at a different trajectory from how we were told the alleged plane came in.

However a couple things still stumped me about the burnt forest section:

1) How did that much of the forest catch on fire, but had reportedly stopped burning when the first people at the scene arrived 10-15 minutes after the explosion?

2) How did that much of the forest catch fire without the ground below it catching fire?

We never saw and there were no reports of any kind of forest fire like this even though a wall of jet fuel fire supposedly hit the forest from a plane crashing at a blistering 580mph:

Maybe there is an explanation to these anomalies. Maybe the section of burnt forest you see in the aerial photos did not initially have that much fire damage after whatever exploded there on 9/11, but perhaps was later set further on fire by the rescue crews (cover-up crews) at the scene, or burned some other way?

“Our goal right now is to preserve everything as it is for tonight,” Killeen said, adding that further investigation would continue in the morning.” - Daily Athenaeum (09/12/01)

Look again at that Sept. 12th aerial from the U.S. government’s site and look at how much of the forest was damaged and how some of the trees closest to the fake crater are thinned out and almost look removed:

Now look at this WTAE photo taken from a National Guard helicotper with PA's Gov. Tom Ridge on board that was taken after 6 p.m. on what looks like 9/11. See if you can see the extent of forest damage as in the above aerial or the proceeding aerials:

Here is video of the scene on 9/11. Does the forest look very damaged to you?

To me, it looks unmistakable that the forest section seen in the early evening WTAE photo and the above video of the scene on the day of the attack looks no where as near as damaged as seen in all the other aerials taken after 9/11 which suggests the forest was further burned to give the illusion that there was more damage to the scene since the perps botched the crash scene up so bad on 9/11.

I don't know how the perps burned more of that section of forest, but it obviously had to be burned sometime during the night or early in the moring before that government's aerial was taken sometime on the morning of 9/12. I did notice that there seems to be no nighttime photos of the crash scene and FEMA didn’t even have any photos of Shanksville in their photo library where they have tons of photos of Ground Zero and the Pentagon.

Notice though that this photo that is supposedly taken on 9/12 is the first ground photo the shows the entire tree line and the sky! This one is weird because it doesn't look like the forest is very damaged (although it is hard to tell with the shadows) and there is still white smoldering at the same spot on 9/11 which the WTAE photo taken in the evening of 9/11 doesn't seem to show. Was this pic taken on 9/12?

In the current Google Earth aerial, notice how all of the burnt forest section was cleared out afterward:

(Forest cleared out to about 70yds deep according to Google Earth.)

http://killtown.blogspot.com/2006/12/shanksville-forest-mostly-burned-after.html
 

lightninboy

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The "4" Flights of 9/11 - What about the Passengers? What happened to them?

by Phil Jayhan
Administrator
Let’s Roll Community Forums
6 Mar 2010

Question # 1. Do we have any evidence that shows the passengers at the airport, boarding terminals or boarding the planes?

Answer: No - Not on any of the "4 flights" of 911.

Question # 2. How does a passenger purchase a ticket for a Flight which will not fly on 9/11?

This is conceivably possible. Flights are canceled all the time and combined with other flights according to the dictates of the airlines and passenger loads any given day. Yet there are no records of any such occurrences on 9/11.

Question #3. How does a passenger fly on a flight which never takes off on 911?

Now this is impossible. The passengers all disappeared and that, seamlessly, on 911. This is beyond dispute. Because the BTS database is accurate and also definite. Flight 11 did not depart on 911.

Question # 4. Where did the passengers go, if not onto flight 11?

At this point we are running out of ground to walk on unless we pass over the most difficult bridge of all and ask the most unpleasant of all questions;

Question # 5. Were any of the passengers on flight 11 or any of the 4 planes part of the conspiracy of 9/11?

Flight 93 was boarded twice. By two groups of people at two separate locations at Newark Airport. We know this because of two credible eye-witnesses. This is also more then likely the reason why flight 93 was 41 minutes late in taking off on 9/11. We were never supposed to know or learn of this 2nd boarding for flight 93, this was one of those things they couldn't forsee. After closing it's door at the terminal, Flight 93 reopened the door to the plane, to allow Mark Bingham aboard. Mark Bingham has for all intents and purposes totally messed up and missed his plane. They literally re-opened the door to the airplane at the terminal jet-bridge and allowed him onto the plane.

After pulling away from the gate, flight 93 goes around the corner to pick up another 'charter' for the days flight, a second group of people. This was never reported on. Nor were you ever intended to so much as get a glimpse of this 2nd boarding. It happened as the result of a planning snafu.

Triton Clayton White saw something he wasn't supposed to see, because the planners of 911 did not take into consideration the possibility of charter flights offloading on the same tarmac they were to pick up this 2nd group of people with Flight 93. Triton Clayton White (New York Giant Football player) saw FLIGHT 93 being boarded on the Tarmac at Newark, which is another separate boarding then when they picked people up at the terminal using a jet-bridge. That self same terminal at Newark, to this day, has a flag at it, where the hero's of 9/11 boarded their fateful flight. Make no mistake about it, the first group of people boarded at the terminal, and a 2nd group of people boarded on the Tarmac. All onto flight 93, and all of this at Newark on 9/11.

But who is this 2nd group of people being boarded onto flight 93, and why the cloak and dagger boarding of a 2nd group of passengers onto Flight 93 on the tarmac, AFTER the boarding at the terminal?

STATUS: NO DEPARTURE: NO BOARDING: On flight 11, we have passengers which boarded and disappeared onto a plane which never took off and which video evidence plausibly shows to be a military drone.

STATUS: DEPARTURE & BOARDING: On flight 175, we have a different issue, as the plane which struck the towers was not commercial flight 175, with those passengers aboard, and also all sorts of plausible evidence that shows this plane to be a military drone as well.

STATUS: NO DEPARTURE: NO BOARDING: On flight 77, we have passengers which allegedly board and depart on a flight which never departed that day, according to BTS.

STATUS: DEPARTURE & TWO BOARDINGS: On flight 93, we have an unusual late passenger being let on the plane after missing it, as well as a second boarding on the tarmac after its first initial boarding at the terminal using a jet-bridge.

At Boston they did a variation of the disappearing coin trick, with an additional coin thrown in, Delta flight 1989, as we will see, and at Dulles, they used the disappearing deck trick. Simply put, the passengers of flight 77 at Dulles are the same group of people who we see on the SECOND BOARDING AT NEWARK AIRPORT. The passengers at Dulles caught an earlier flight which took them to Newark where they were to rendevouz with Flight 93, and did so successfully. Howbeit, there is a witness to this deception, Triton Clayton White, the New york Giant who saw Flight 93 boarding ON THE TARMAC. After its FIRST BOARDING AT THE TERMINAL.

At Boston Logan International Airport, they used a similar deception. Here, the passengers from both flights 11 & 175 are combined into one flight. It would eventually become delta flight 1989 and land at Cleveland International Airport... While flight 93, now having also the passengers from flight 77 from the 2nd boarding at Newark, will head to the same destination; Cleveland International Airport.

Stuart Air Force Base Mystery - Explained

Above Stuart air force base we are told that flight 11 and 175 nearly collided they got so close. We were also given snippets of this through air traffic control tapes. The explanation for this is as plausible as it is logical. This is where the 2 military drones which were to strike to world trade centers took off from. They would replace the flight path of Flight 175 as well as the path of flight 11, which up to this point was provided for by an electronic warfare plane which was one of "4" such aircraft in the air for the War games which were taking place on 9/11/2001. Sometime shortly after this, Flight 175 NOW HAVING BEEN REPLACED BY A MILITARY DRONE ON RADAR will change its transponder to Delta 1989, and make an emergency landing at Cleveland, with reports of a bomb aboard. This plane would contain roughly 200 people, and not only is it plausible that these people were the people from flights 11 & 175, it is highly probable and likely. Another plane, Flight 93, would also land at Cleveland airport. This was confirmed by both the Mayor of Cleveland, and United Airlines who publicly acknowledged on 911 and confirmed flight 93 landed in Cleveland. Flight 93 would end up being sequestered at one end of the airport, at the NASA Glenn hangar, while the other flight containing the other passengers from 11 & 175, now designated as Delta 1989, would be sequestered at the other end of the airport, at the I-X Exposition center. The two flights, Delta 1989 and United flight 93 had roughly 260 some people between them, the same number as the "4" flights, 11, 175, 77 & 93.

The Cleveland Airport Mystery - Explained

We can conclude that Delta 1989 landed at 10:10, and at 12:30 the 69 passengers were taken into the FAA headquarter. Flight X landed at 10:45, and at 11:15 the 200 passengers were taken into the evacuated NASA Center.

What happened after Cleveland is anyone's guess. All air traffic was closed. If any planes flew, it is doubtful there was recordings of them, especially if they contained the passengers from any of these 4 flights. All that lied ahead of them at this point is their new lives and new identities.

There is what I believe happened to the passengers. For the first time in 9 years I believe we have come as close as we can without a full fledged honest open inquiry into the crimes of 911 in understanding all the mysteries of the missing passengers & planes. Perhaps you believe the passengers were all real, and then eliminated afterward. Regardless of your viewpoint on this issue, I believe I have outlined the most plausible explanation as to what occurred on 9/11 regarding the 4 planes and passengers. Adapt this scenario as neccessary as it meets your knowledge of the events of 911.

Control Group -- All Military people aboard any of the 4 flights -- (20-25% of passengers)

Control Group -- All Military Industrial people, Raytheon, Boeing, etc. (25-30% of passengers right here)

Control Group -- Misc Criminal network ties. e.g. Eric Hartano, 20 year old student on Flight 175. Seems innocuous enough and hard to depose, right? Until you find out his father was Sam Hartano, who was being prosecuted for ripping off the Indonesian CENTRAL BANK. Sam Hartano, oddly, went missing from Indonesian law about 1 year after Eric hartano, his son, allegedly perished on 911.

Control Group --- High profile people. Presidents, Vice Presidents, CEO's, CFO's, Directors, Project Managers, Playwrights, Actors, Producers, Actors who were supposed to fly on 911 on 93,. There was inordinately high numbers of all these types of people aboard all 4 flights. It is a statistical improbability to say the least and an impossibility to say it like it is.

Control Group -- Dead people. We have several instances of dead people on the passengers manifests. Also, people from other flights were added into the passengers manifest, in at least one instance with 2 people. They tried to have this corrected but am not sure how far they actually got in rectifying it.

I think you get the idea. The people who did 911 are part of a huge criminal network, and they recycle people and identities on a daily basis.

Snippets: Flight Crews
•Flight 11: There were nine flight attendants on American Airlines Flight 11 the morning of 9/11. At least four of them were not originally booked to be on this flight
•Flight 175: There were seven flight attendants on this plane on 9/11, at least four of whom had only recently been assigned to it.
•Flight 77: Of the four attendants on this plane, at least two were not originally scheduled to be on it.
•Flight 93: At least three of the five attendants on this flight were not originally booked to be on it.

Snippets: Passengers
•Flight 175: Touri Bolourchi "was not supposed to be aboard Flight 175
•Flight 77: Barbara Olson, who flew on Flight 77 on 9/11, was originally "scheduled to fly to Los Angeles on the night of Sept. 10," but "changed her schedule
•Flight 93: Environmental lawyer Alan Beaven arranged to take Flight 93 on 9/11 the day before ***
•Flight 93: A number of the Flight 93 passengers were originally booked on United Airlines Flight 91
*** How can Alan Beaven arrange to fly on flight 93 the day before 9/11? Flight 93 was not even created until about 2 hours before it flew on 9/11.

But wait, there is a whole lot more; these are just 'snippets.' All of this is once again on the not believable scale.

http://shoestring911.blogspot.com/2008/03/last-minute-pilots-passengers-and.html

The easiest way to get rid of people is to gas them. An odorless super strong gas could easily knock out or kill anyone in a plane. Any survivors would simply be given an antidote as part of their arrangement before the gassing.

I picture them all herded into one or two buildings and gassed the way the Nazis did to the Jews, etc., during WW2.

Have you ever seen the movie "Airport 77"?

Flight 11;
The hole in the facade is about 23ft short, so what was it: commuter, missile, 767, 737?

Flight 175:
Could be a drone. Why not a dead center hit just like flight 11? Most of the jet fuel misses tower 2. Was this pilot way worse than Hani Hanjour?

Flight 77:
I’ll stick with the flyover so far. Budget workers missing, trillions gone, also the evidence they worked on.

Flight 93:
Flight 93 did not crash at Shanksville but in the vicinity or by Camp David.

9/11 - FLIGHT 93 SHANKSVILLE CRASH LIE - INDIAN LAKE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrGSHn8kLQs

Anyway all these people were put on 1 plane which flew out. Some researchers think it flew over the Atlantic and nose-dived. I don't believe there were hijackers. I think we have the technology to fly airplanes remotely. I think 3 missiles struck that day and one odd, blue fuel plane with no windows.
I think these passengers agreed to go into something like the witness protection program. I think they were given new identities, plastic surgery and money galore. I think Barbara Olson may be alive. It's even possible she's Ted Olson's new wife.

http://letsrollforums.com/happened-passengers-4-flights-t20496.html
 

lightninboy

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Wayne Madsen
Prisonplanet.com
Saturday, Sept 19th, 2009

WMR has previously reported that based on numerous sources within the National Security Agency, Defense Intelligence Agency, and the U.S. Air Force, United 93 was shot down by the Air Force over Pennsylvania by two F-16s. A Global Hawk unmanned aerial vehicle was also in the vicinity of the doomed Boeing 757 and crashed where the large passenger plane was reported to have crashed.

http://researchris.blogspot.com/2009/09/911-commission-played-with-fire.html


July 9, 2009 -- SPECIAL REPORT. The 9/11 "dogfight" over rural Pennsylvania

Based on information received from five different sources within the U.S. intelligence community who worked at three different agencies, WMR can report that on the morning of September 11, 2001, the U.S. Air Force shot down two air targets over a rural Pennsylvania area near the small town of Shanksville.

In what has become a story of mythic proportions, United Flight 93 took off from Newark International Airport at 8:42 am and was bound for San Francisco. The flight departed 41 minutes late from Newark. At 9:27 am, United 93 was allegedly hijacked by terrorists who turned off the plane's transponder at 9:30 am and changed course, heading to Washington. Passenger Todd Beamer, according to folklore, made a cell phone call at 9:45 am from the plane and ended the call with an announcement that the passengers were going to revolt. Beamer allegedly said "Let's Roll," a phrase that would be used by President George W. Bush in his speech from Atlanta on November 8, 2001.

At 9:58, a Flight 93 passenger allegedly made a cell phone call and said that he saw an explosion and smoke and that the plane was "going down."
The wife of United 93 passenger Mark "Mickey" Rothenberg, Meredith, expressed curiosity why her husband, who "lived by the phone," as she put it, never bothered calling her from the plane.

What WMR has uncovered from conversations with U.S. intelligence personnel who were on duty at National Security Agency (NSA) headquarters on September 11 and at other intelligence activities is that:
the tactical air communications unit at the National Security Operations Center (NSOC) at NSA was broadcasting live the cockpit communications between two U.S. Air Force F-16s over Somerset County, Pennsylvania. One F-16 pilot said "we are now engaging the target."

The NSA CRITICOM messaging system contained a flash message called a "CRITIC" that stated a commercial aircraft was "intercepted" over Pennsylvania. The latitude and longitude of the interception was provided along with the time of the interception.

A highly-classified and specially encrypted special communications network that linked Air Force Chief of Staff General John Jumper to the Vice President and National Security Council, and very few other intelligence officials contained a message on the morning of September 11 that confirmed the U.S. Air Force shot down United flight 93. The message stated that a U.S. Air Force fighter jet shot the engine on flight 93 with a heat-seeking missile "over Pennsylvania." The plane, according to the report, did not break up in the sky but crashed. The engine shot off the plane by the Air Force was later located 3,000 yards from the main wreckage site and the engine was riddled with shrapnel as was the surrounding fuselage. The following day, the comments stream for the special communications system was erased, something that had never before occurred with the particular system.

On September 11, President George W. Bush was overheard stating: "We shot a plane down over Pennsylvania."

However, WMR has learned from sources in Shanksville and the surrounding area that the "official" Stony Creek crash site where no Boeing 757 wreckage was seen when first responders from Shanksville arrived at 10:06 am, was not the crash site of United 93 but the impact crater of what closely matches the description of a Global Hawk unmanned aerial vehicle that was first reported by one witness at a nearby junk yard to have "collided" with United flight 93 but another witness witnessed a small white aircraft pass over Ginger Hill Road and clear some trees before exploding in a small mushroom cloud on the other side of the tree line. When the aircraft passed over the trees, there was no disturbance to the foliage. The fallout from the explosion was described by the witness as "glittery." There was hardly any wind that morning in the Shanksville area. Government investigators later claimed that the reported 8-mile long debris field from United 93 was due to debris being carried by the wind.

A 911 emergency call to the Somerset Hospital Critical Care unit stated that the hospital should prepare for mass casualties since "two planes collided over Pennsylvania."

Some thirty minutes after first responders arrived at the Stony Creek impact datum, helicopters and SUVs descended on the quiet community and remained there in force for up to three days. Although all planes had been ordered grounded by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), one large plane that swooped in low over the area was said at the time to be carrying Pennsylvania Governor Tom Ridge on an inspection tour of the crash site.
The mysterious crash site was placed under 24-hour armed guard. The area remains restricted to the public with a chain link fence to the present day. On the evening of September 11, two hapless teens who entered the restricted area around the crash datum were wrestled to the ground by security personnel and had loaded guns placed on them until they could be escorted away.

At the same time, the Air Force shot down United 93 but its crash impact area was not where the government and media claimed it had crashed -- in a reclaimed landfill area in Stony Creek Township. WMR learned that there were five different debris locations discovered on the morning of September 11: (1) the Stony Creek location where the Global Hawk drone crashed; (2) a reported engine location near the Global Hawk location but supposedly found in dense woods near the Global Hawk datum; (3) debris and reportedly a part of a body found in Indian Lake, to the east of the Global Hawk datum; (4) a debris field consisting only of singed paper on a single property on the east side of Huckleberry Highway, southeast of Indian Lake; and (5) another debris field, also consisting mostly of singed paper, in New Baltimore, some 8 miles from the fourth debris field, just off the Pennsylvania Turnpike.

At the Huckleberry Highway residential debris field, singed paper was gathered up that filled two lawn-sized plastic garbage bags. Witnesses described the paper as being insurance papers, bank statements, and stock and bond certificates. None of the neighboring homes reported any debris attributed to United 93. The New Baltimore debris field also reportedly consisted of singed bonds and insurance and bank papers.

The only witness who saw the non-Boeing 757 aircraft that crashed in the landfill in Stony Creek described it as "not a plane" with no engine, pure white, tubular, with no markings or windows, soundless, and with the appearance of a molded piece of plastic. The aircraft banked to the right before ascending over a tree line before crashing. Under the aircraft and mid-belly could be seen what the witness described as a "fin and spoiler."

The gaudy temporary United 93 memorial is run by the National Park Service before a permanent memorial is constructed.

After the crash of the reported unmanned aerial vehicle, the witness noticed two fighter jets in the area that circled and departed rapidly from the scene. Although Shanksville and environs were far from the chaos in New York and Washington on the morning of September 11, all the phones circuits were tied up in the rural Pennsylvania area when the two aircraft went down at around 10:00 am. However, one phone call that got through to a witness from a relative in Lancaster, Pennsylvania said that a friend in the Air Force said that the service had "shot down a plane in Pennsylvania."

WMR learned that witnesses, including Amish and non-Amish farmers who were working in their fields that morning and saw U.S. Air Force fighter planes shoot down United 93 were threatened by FBI agents. One witness had a security gag order placed on him by the FBI. As the years went by, a number of farmer witnesses changed their stories to coincide with the official story that rebel passengers crashed a Boeing 757 into a reclaimed landfill and that it was simply "absorbed" into the ground with scant plane debris.

One FBI agent with an accompanying policeman, who was not wearing a uniform known to the region, pounded on one witness's door at 11:30 pm on the night of 9/11 and was extremely nasty with the witness and her family, including an ailing elderly mother. The police officer, who was neither with the Somerset County Sheriff's Department or the Pennsylvania State Police, never showed the witness a badge nor did he introduce himself. The FBI scoffed at the witness, claiming the witness had no idea what a Boeing 757 actually looked like. The witness told the FBI agent that what was seen "could have been from another country."

The temporary memorial has cockpit voice recorder transmission transcripts available with the Islamic-oriented comments of the alleged hijackers highlighted.

The next day, three FBI agents came to the same witness and told the witness: "Do not lose faith in your government. We are handling it." The FBI tried to explain the small white plane as someone flying around taking pictures of the crash scene and that the pilot was heavily fined as a result. The FBI was informed by the witness that the white aircraft was in the area before the explosion.

The "Flight 93" crash site remains fenced in and restricted. The reason is because a Boeing 757 never crashed there. It was the impact point of a Global Hawk UAV likely shot down by the Air Force. The crash site shown on TV lies beyond the small US flag in the center of the field but before the tree line.

A reporter for the Newark Star-Ledger, who arrived in Shanksville to cover the story, later was quoted as saying, "As time goes by, this is not going to the official story," a reference to the myth-lore surrounding the fate of United 93.

What was described by the closest witness nearest the Stony Creek impact area was a Global Hawk UAV.

Among the first responders was the Shanksville Fire Department. Initially, the Shanksville and New Baltimore volunteer fire departments were skeptical about the official story because neither saw any plane wreckage. However, after brand new fire trucks with "9/11" painted on them showed up shortly after 9/11, their stories changes and became much more aligned with the jingoistic explanation of brave Americans sacrificing themselves to protect the nation's capital from another attack. Shanksville's twenty-year Mayor Ernie Stull stated that when he arrived at the crash scene he saw no evidence of a plane crash. Stull died of heart failure at age 82 in 2006 after retiring as mayor in 2005.

Initial skepticism by Shanksville first responders was quickly erased with a new fire engine and a piece of the World Trade Center shaped into a cross.
Somerset coroner Wallace Miller said that when he first arrived at the crash datum he was stunned to see how small the 10 foot deep hole was and the absence of bodies. A nearby cabin belonging to Barry Hoover was destroyed by a "blast" from what he described as a tornado or hurricane.

Flight 93 temporary memorial is full of kitsch but lacking in truth.
Unlike New York and the Arlington-Washington areas, the rural area around Shanksville has never had a town activist meeting of those witnesses who saw things that do not fit neatly into the government's description. Most people accept the government's theory and are supporting the building of a permanent National Park Service memorial to honor Flight 93. A 100-year old church has been bought with private funds, mainly from the fortune of 84 Lumber owned Joseph Hardy, and transformed into a kitschy 9/11 chapel with letters from George W. Bush and police and fire department badges from around the country. The chapel is run by "Reverend Al" Alphonse Mascherino, whose certificate is on display: an honorary doctorate of divinity from the Midwest Seminary of Bible Theology in Missouri.

The small town of New Baltimore, some 10 miles from Shanksville had a Flight 93 debris field, one consisting of singed financial documents. New Baltimore lies alongside the Pennsylvania Turnpike.
A number of questions have arisen based on the new information about the aerial fireworks that involved at least four planes over the the Shanksville area on 9/11.

One of the primary questions is the role the U.S. Air Force Global Hawk Program office at the Air Combat Command (ACC) at Langley Air Force Base, Virginia played on 9/11. On September 6, 2001, just three working days prior to 9/11, the Air Combat Command chief, General John P. Jumper, assumed control of the Air Force as Chief of Staff. In August 2007, after just three months on the job as Commander of the 5th Bomb Wing at Minot Air Force Base, North Dakota, six nuclear-armed cruise missiles were shipped to Louisiana for, what WMR reported, was a planned secret nuclear strike on Iran utilizing a separate chain-of-command from the Pentagon. The mission was aborted after three high-ranking Air Force officers leaked the movement of the weapons to the media. After being relieved of his command over the missing nuclear weapons incident, Col. Bruce Emig was transferred to the Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) Division at the Air Combat Command at Langley Air Force Base, Virginia. One of the Air Force's primary UAV contractors is Northrop Grumman, which has a cooperative relationship with Israel Aircraft Industries on using Israeli UAV technology, particularly for the Global Hawk UAV.

Another question is who ordered FBI agents and unknown police officers to badger witnesses in the Shanksville area into silence? Was it FBI director Robert Mueller who said there was no proof that Osama Bin Laden was responsible for 9/11. Or was it someone else known for threatening people and worse: Vice President Dick Cheney whose own dubious fingerprints are all over the anomalies associated with American Airlines flight 77 that allegedly crashed into the Pentagon. One retired senior U.S. Air Force official told WMR today that what he saw make a hole in the side of the Pentagon had to have been a UAV. Like Stony Creek, there were no indications that a commercial aircraft had crashed into the Pentagon.

And those two questions are just for starters.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread349348/pg6
 

lightninboy

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NSA Security running amok to plug leaks about 9/11

By Wayne Madsen
Jul 7, 2009
(WMR) -- WMR has learned that the National Security “Q” Group, responsible for security, has grown to an immense security and counter-intelligence force, with an estimated one thousand government employees, contractors, and paid informants. NSA’s Security force is reportedly primarily tasked with plugging any leaks of classified or other information that points to U.S. government’s involvement with the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001.

NSA Security has doggedly pursued a number of NSA employees, some in “sting” operations, others in frequent polygraphs and repeated security interviews where threats are made by thuggish NSA security agents with and without the presence of FBI agents, and others in constant surveillance operations at their homes, churches, and other locations away from the Fort Meade, Maryland, headquarters of the agency.

NSA’s Security chief is Kemp Ensor III. Ensor has built up what amounts to a massive law enforcement and intelligence agency in Maryland that operates as a virtual independent operation that answers to no one. Maryland’s congressional delegation has shown little interest in oversight over the security operation.

The bottom line is that a number of NSA personnel who were on duty in the months leading up to 9/11, the day of the attacks, and subsequent weeks and months, are aware of undeniable facts that point to a massive cover-up by the Bush-Cheney administration of the circumstances surrounding 9/11, including what actually befell United Airlines flight 93 and who was issuing direct military orders from the White House.

The Obama administration, rather than lessen the pressure on the NSA personnel, has turned up the heat and is resorting to even more draconian methods to ensure silence.

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=118291.0
 

lightninboy

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June 21, 2006

United Airlines Flight 93 supposedly nosedived straight into the ground like this:

and burrowed itself into the ground according to the official story

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A56110-2002May8&notFound=true

and left this shallow crater which looks about 10ft deep.

Now put aside for a second that you can't see much of anything in or around the crater that looks like a giant plane had just crashed there (like the lack of a tail section sticking out of the ground) or that the 5,500 gallons of fuel still on the plane didn't scorch the long dry grass growing around right up to the rim of the crater. What else seems odd about this crater is:

Where did all the dirt go???

Flight 93 was a Boeing 757 with a 155ft long fuselage, 124ft wingspan, and should have weighed about 75 tons at least when it supposedly crashed.

The mounds of dirt seen outside the crater looks like about the same amount that would fit back into the 10 ft deep crater.

So a 155ft long plane weighing 75tons at impact nosedives at 580mph and buries itself underground, leaving a shallow 10ft deep crater, but only ejects out enough dirt to fill back in the 10ft deep crater???

http://killtown.blogspot.com/2006/06/shanksville-crater-oddity.html


Killtown
January 30, 2007

Here is a photo released from the Moussaoui trial that is supposedly showing one of Flight 93’s engines being recovered from the crater which is "proof" that Flight 93 crashed in Shanksville according to OCT’s and even some 9/11 Truthlings.

The small smashed-up engine scrap fits neatly into the backhoe bucket. All the perps had to do was lower this small engine scrap down a few feet with their backhoe and quickly snap a pic for their little perp engine photo-op.

Remember that we were told that the perps had to dig down to about 45ft to recover the rest of Flight 93 and then the black boxes, which are located in the tail section of the plane, where supposedly found at 15ft and 25ft below the ground and yet we are supposed to believe that one of Flight 93’s heavy and strong engines that supposedly impacted the ground at a whopping 580mph only managed to burrow down just a few of feet under the “soft soil”???

And one wonders what happened to the rest on the once large engine that’s nowhere seen in the crater?!

The only other pieces of debris that are seen in the crater are just a few shiny and very small scraps that look placed in the crater. I guess not placing any other debris in the crater along side the engine for their little photo-op would just look a little “too obvious”!

If you look closely at the “burrowed engine,” you’ll notice that it’s not even submerged in the “soft dirt” and doesn't seem to have any dirt on it after it supposedly burrowed through the dirt at 580mph. The engine scrap also looks old and rusted.

One question would be, is this engine scrap facing up as if a plane crashed backwards?

It's also interesting to note that in another Moussaoui/government close-up photo of the fake crater, they show a couple haz-mat perps that they seem to purposely want in their photo-op, but don’t want to show their faces.

So, planted engine #1!

Now, planted engine #2:

Well, there is no photographic evidence of a second engine reportedly found at the scene, so there is no way to know if this alleged 2nd engine found was the type Flight 93 even had. It is also not clear as to what was found and where. News reports have a nearly intact engine vs. an engine fan and found in the bushes vs. found in the pond 300yds away.

Now good ole’ Popular Mechanics seems to be saying this engine part found in the pond tumbled across the ground before landing in the pond. If it did that, it would have had to lob over the very tall tree line hugging the service road next to the crater.

http://killtown.blogspot.com/2007/01/planted-engines-at-shanksville.html
 

lightninboy

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This is officially one of the engines from flight 93, apparently freshly unearthed.

However, there are a few problems with this scene:

1) why did this engine go in the ground but the other one went flying away?

2) how exactly was it, that this heavy engine impacting the ground at 600 mph, only went ONE FOOT underground-- when the black boxes in the TAIL of the plane went at least 15 feet underground?

3) are they really using an excavator to dig out a hole that is in theory packed with human remains? Shouldn't they be doing this excavation a little more delicately?

4) as best as I can tell, this is the rear half of a crumpled up turbofan engine. Where is the front half?

5) most interestingly, the engine looks as though it went into the ground at a 90 degree angle. How can this be the case, when officially flight 93 hit the ground at a 45 degree angle?

UPDATE: Although the engine is clearly not at a 45 degree angle (as the official account would hold), I realized the engine is not at a perfect 90 degree angle.

The engine is actually at about a 70 degree angle, where 90 degrees is straight vertical.

This picture nonetheless deviates drastically from the official story.

You should be able to see in the picture that there are trees in the background. The only foliage near the crash site was straight to the west. This means the picture was taken to the east of the crater looking west.

This means the topmost part of the engine is leaning TOWARDS THE SOUTH.

Officially, the plane came from the north, heading south, and if the plane went into the ground at some angle (most sources say 45 degrees), the engine should be positioned with the topmost part tipping significantly to the north. In other words, the engine debris should be leaning northwards. In this picture, the engine is tilted completely the wrong direction!

It is extremely unlikely the engine was tilted the opposite way during the digging process, since removal of dirt on the northern side if anything should have made the engine tilt more in that direction, which would have supported the official story more. Further, if the engine was moved significantly prior to the picture being taken, it invalidates this official evidence.

http://covertoperations.blogspot.com/2007/01/engine-trouble.html
 

lightninboy

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Is Flight93crash.com a spook site?

Flight93crash.com only focuses on the shoot down theory and has been the most popular conspiracy site about Flight 93 in which just about every 9/11 conspiracy site out there has linked to.

They have not updated their website at all since Aug ’03!

No one seems to know who is running this site!

Their domain name was created 6 days after 9/11.

Administrative Contact:
Crash, Flight93 [email protected]
300 N Center Ave
Somerset, PA 15501
United States
555-4451536

This address is only about 12 miles away from the crash site and not only that, an internet search of their registered address reveals this address is for the Somerset County government offices!

9/11 researcher Thomas Potter noticed the area code of their registered phone number (555-445-1536) was fictitious and notified the domain company, GoDaddy.com, in which they said Flight93crash.com had to correct it or their account would be cancelled.

Did Flight93crash.com have a phony address listed at the domain registration?

Well today, they changed their domain registration address to generic GoDaddy.com address.

N. Hayden Rd
Scottsdale, Arizona 85260

Flight93crash.com is hosted on a dedicated server

The government must think this is key disinfo to maintain a dedicated server.

http://64.27.92.241/

64.27.92.241 - IP hosts 2 Total Domains

1 FLIGHT93CRASH.COM
2 SAUNDERSPROPERTYCO.COM

CustName: Mark Bogani
Address: Private Residence
City: Hoboken
StateProv: NJ

It's a spook site-- no doubt!

The CSPAN broadcast this week from congress, by Jewish ADL Mossad Simon Weiselthal Nazi Hunters bragged how great it is to create fake websites to sucker 9/11 Truthers and other Islamic Jihadists, such as Jew Adam Gadahn who is USAma Bin Laden's official spokesman. Congress failed to ask why USAma would trust a Jewish kid from California in his allCIAduh HQ, when Gadahn's father and grandfather run ADL's Mossad HQ in USA. But Congress did point out that Gadahn was "recruited by a website on the internet".

Yes, I think that it is a government site. Now they use private domain registration service to cover the information.

http://killtown.blogspot.com/2007/02/is-flight93crashcom-spook-site.html
 

lightninboy

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Back in Black boxes

Officials said that Flight 93's flight data recorder (FDR) and cockpit voice recorder (CVR) were recovered at Shanksville.

They said the FDR was recovered 15ft underground at 4:45 pm on 9/13 and the CVR was found 25ft underground at 8:25 pm on 9/14.

If Flight 93 didn't crash in Shanksville, then these black boxes must have been planted.

Some will be skeptical and will ask for evidence that the boxes were planted.

So let's see what we can "dig up".

The photos of Flight 93's alleged black boxes were released in April 2006 after the Zacarias Moussaoui trial ended.

Were these photos that crucial to the prosecution’s case that we had to wait four long years to see them???

The website these photos are posted at lists the “squared-shaped” box as the CVR...

and the “cylinder-shaped” one as the FDR...

However, when the NTSB released their data analysis on the FDR, they show the FDR as the squared-shaped one, not the cylinder-shaped one as the Moussaoui site has it.

The day before the first black box was allegedly found, investigators and U.S. Rep. John Murtha said that one or both of the boxes might have been crushed by the impact or incinerated by the jet fuel-fed inferno.

Wait a minute?

What inferno???

And how does fire exist under a sealed crater?

The CVR was supposedly found 10ft deeper in the ground the day after the FDR was.

How did the CVR manage to burrow so much deeper when both boxes are located next to each other in the tail section?

Well, one has to wonder if the reason the NTSB never released the name of the CVR's manufacturer was because they planted the wrong one?

http://hoodwinkedatshanksville.blogspot.com/2007/03/back-in-black-boxes.html
 

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Aug 24 2007

Susan McElwain, Robbin Duppstadt, Susan Custer, and at least 20 other people (some documented, most not) saw a HIGHLY CLASSIFIED UNMANNED AERIAL VEHICLE on the morning of 9/11.

It is similar in appearance to a Global Hawk except for the tail section. All eyewitnesses to date have agreed more like a GH and a Predator Drone and definitely not a Warthog or Falcon20.

Why could it not have been an F15 fighter jet that Susan McElwain saw? An F15 has 2 rear engines and 2 upright fins at the side.

http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=14431


Domenick “Terrorcell” DiMaggio CIT
Jan 26 2008

List of Shanksville area residents who saw a small white drone plane:
Lee Purbaugh
Jim Brandt
John Fleegle
Rick Chaney
Dennis Decker
Robin Duppstadt
Susan Custer
Susan McElwain
Dale Browning
Tom Spinelli
Viola Saylor

I know another person who has seen two fighter jets BEFORE the crash. Viola Saylor claimed she has seen "two normal planes" after the A-10(?) from the south shortly after the crash. Robin Duppstadt was in Buckstown and has seen one fighter jet high in the air just after the crash. The drawing she has shown me had resembled a F-15.

No one including Susan positively identified them as F15's. But all witnesses describe them as 2 fighter jets, triangular shaped. I'm guessing they're referencing the angled wings and not actually something along the lines of a stealth bomber so it just seems F15 would be the most likely suspect for these.

The small drawing of Robin was also triangular shaped. When I showed her a picture of an A-10, Robin denied this was the plane she has seen. She also mentioned that the plane had no weapons, in contrast to the A-10 on the picture.
I guess the two F-15 didn’t fire a missile (screeching sound), because they were unarmed. I’m confused about this missile sound. If this was a missile, who fired this thing from the northwest?

There was most definitely a "screeching" sound which went from Indian Lake to the crash site.

The NORAD tapes have phantom flight 93 located at one point at 39.51 N, 78.46 W. I checked the map, it is near Cacapon State Park in the Maryland "pan handle" between PA and WV. If you draw a line from Shanksville to this location, it runs over New Baltimore.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index.php?showtopic=9036

Because it sounded like a missile doesn't mean it was one. I haven't heard of anyone seeing a missile unless that is what Susan saw instead of a drone but even so Susan says it was silent.

Dom and I agree that two fighter jets (probably F-15`s) were coming from the southeast and heading to the crash site just before the explosion.
We agree the plane which McElwain has seen was probably an UAV and coming from the southeast (heading to the crater).
We also agree the screeching sound was coming from the southeast and also heading to the crater. I think it was a missile fired from the UAV (Predator?) for the shootdown of Flight 93. The two F-15 perhaps were covering the shootdown from radar with chaff (confetti rain Indian Lake).

Susan McElwain claims in the video that she has seen two "triangled" fighter jets. I personally met a guy who has seen two fighter jets just before the crash.

One thing about what Susan saw, I don't think it's necessary to go any further about the UAV other than knowing a UAV was in the area. What it was doing doesn't matter. One was there, one was not supposed to be. It's up to the govt to explain why it was there.

You mean if there was a shootdown? If the screaming thing was a missile, which has shot down the plane, there should have been two explosions. The first when the missile hit the plane, the second when the plane hit the ground.
But according to witnesses the screaming thing leads to the (only one) explosion. The alleged missile logically must have hit the ground without hitting an airborne plane.
And what was the reason to fire a missile(or bomb) into the ground? Was there an already crashed plane to destroy?

I have spoken now to a couple residents in New Baltimore and if the FBI had shut the place down and recovered a plane there everybody would know because there can't be over 300 people in that town. The debris didn't get heavier south of Indian Lake. Also Indian Lake residents made 911 calls reporting a plane "breaking apart on their homes". This also puts the doomed craft south of the crash site.

I believe Michael & Lisa Merringer all heard the airborne explosions and so did Laura Temyer. If you go through the accounts you will come across a couple witnesses that describe 2-3 airborne bangs before the plane crash. I think the plane was shot down and finished off when it crashed insuring not much evidence would remain.

I believe the plane was engaged while in air. There were 2 or 3 impacts on it which are the loud bangs described by witnesses and large "screaming" thing was most likely some sort of larger object (bomb?) which met the plane at the ground.

Which also creates a vaccumlike effect according to the witnesses I disclosed to you privately who claim their property damage consisted of things being sucked towards the explosion instead of blown away from it.

I do believe now it was some kind of thermobaric bomb, also called vacuum bomb.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermobaric_weapon

Do you remember Eric Peterson telling about the initial explosion and then a split of a second later the big explosion? This is exactly what is happening when a thermobaric bomb explodes.

But there are no debris fields to the north. The debris fields start at the south with light debris at NB, heavier debris at IL, and then the final at Shanksville. The plane didn't end up in New Baltimore. I have now spoken to enough people. So my belief is if the plane didn't end up there then this is the beginning of the debris field and not the end. Also the damage done to the trees is totally inconsistent with this pattern of debris being blown to the southeast because everything blasted towards the west of the crater.

Which is another reason why I believe the plane heard and witnessed over Indian Lake before the crash is the doomed plane. I think too many people have been looking at the debris field in the wrong pattern with Shanksville first and New Baltimore third but I believe that to be the opposite.

The plane most likely isn't UA93. Not everyone we were told was on it really was.

I'm not sure but I don't think a single missile is going to eliminate that much of the plane. When planes crash you know it. People got there couldn't find the 757. The crater was 10' deep it didn't accommodate a 757. So either no plane crashed there or what did was destroyed in more than one way. Perhaps the plane itself was explosive laden since I believe it most likely to not have been UA93.

The people south of the crash site (Indian Lake residents), Jim Stop report seeing debris falling from the plane or as the State Police said "breaking apart on their homes". Delasko says debris was raining down when she went outside the marina after the crash. Wind would have taken it 20 minutes to get there. The debris is heavier at Indian Lake than New Baltimore. To me the debris should be heavier in New Baltimore if we talking a scenario where the plane continues flying southeast and losing parts.

Whatever damaged the trees came from the east. I believe the official story is the plane was flying towards DC so it would be flying south/southeast over the field there. For the plane to be consistent with the blast trajectory it would have to be traveling southwest over the field or northwest and sort of "cartwheel" into the woods.

I know there were the UAV, 2 Fighter jets, and 1 commercial plane. I'm still working on positively identifying this silver plane at treetop level over the crash site minutes later.

It is quite obvious Mrs. McElwain either saw a missile or some type of classified US Military Drone Craft. Based on other accounts such as Lee Purbaugh who saw the little white plane IMMEDIATELY after the crash and based on my recent discussion with Rick Chaney there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever this craft is real and this craft was there at that exact moment.

Orbiter
This remotely flown aircraft has been operational for 10+ years. Silent electric motor operation and capability of gliding.
This aircraft is currently sold to police and intelligence agencies for surveillance and covert operations.
Wingspan 7.2 feet. A perfect surveillance vehicle for recording the Inside Job treason against America on 9-11.
Perhaps they had an Orbiter over the WTC so George Dubya Boosh could get a live feed of the 1st aircraft hitting the North Tower he could dance over. You surely don't think Dubya lied when he said he saw it, do you? Those little devils worshipping before Molech at the Skull & Bones sacrificial ceremonies surely love their dances. Maybe Dubya felt the need to celebrate down there hiding out in Florida, and ordered a direct feed from an Orbiter or similar UAV.

http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/60373/1/
 

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Domenick DiMaggio CIT
Feb 27 2009
Shanksville : Final Report

Part I: The Crash Site & Crater and Origins Thereof

The other inconsistency is that the blast trajectory of the impact and the flight path conflict. One aerial photo clearly demonstrates the blast trajectory into the woods is in a southwest direction while Viola’s house is located northwest. Indian Lake is southeast of the crash site.

Part II: If Not Shanksville Then Where?

In Loose Change: Final Cut Indian Lake Mayor Barry Lichty elaborates on his experience that morning. He says the power had gone off and he felt a tremor and then he heard what “sounded like a missile” come over his house because it was “going that fast”. Then he states that it “was coming from that direction” [the crash site].
There is no other explanation for what went screaming from the crash site immediately after the explosion than it was the plane witnessed by Bob, Doug, & Viola which if it continued to fly would have been in a direct path with Indian Lake.

Viola said that in order for the plane to have crashed the way they said it did compared to the way it was when she saw it the plane would have had to pull up and then nose dive into the ground which of course is aerodynamically impossible. It is interesting also to note that Viola turned down an opportunity to be an Official Ambassador at the Flight 93 Memorial because “I wouldn’t go along with the stories”.

Val McClatchey lives southeast of the crash site directly in between the site and Indian Lake. On the morning of 9/11 Val was sitting on her couch when she first heard Flight 93 fly overhead.

Claims of Flight 93 flying over Indian Lake can be found in every local paper in Pennsylvania.
No one at Indian Lake can ever hear Flight 93 fly over if the official story is true. Indian Lake is 3 miles southeast of the alleged impact site. No one witnessed Flight 93 approach the crashsite from the southeast but from the northwest. This indicates the plane continued on past the alleged impact spot in a direct line most likely ascending.

Part III: What Happened to the Passengers?

This is always the last question people have when told a plane did not crash in the Shanksville field. Which while we’re at it isn’t even really Shanksville but Lambertsville.

Not one person witnessed human remains at the Flight 93 crash site on 9/11. Despite many people searching for remains of anything throughout the immediate area none were seen. Naturally I found this to be very surprising when Wally Miller showed me the photographs he took on the following day after stating he too did not discover any remains on the 11th.

The photographs Wally took showed very little evidence of human remains. So little one could attribute it all to coming from one human being. There were several photos of a severed left arm, a couple which appeared to be a human scalp, and lastly a couple of what appeared to be an organ perhaps a heart or lung it was hard to distinguish in the photo. The amazing part is that all of these remains photographed by Wally on the 12th were in plain view laying in dirt. The only dirt in the vicinity is the dirt road which the plane allegedly crashed by. Everyone was traveling up and down this road and many people wondered off into the area of the blast trajectory into the woods. None reported seeing any such thing and let me tell you the half an arm would have easily been noticed.

Wally Miller never found a drop of blood at the crash site. Despite a severed arm laying in dirt along with what appeared to be internal organs none of them left a single trace of blood where they were recovered.

Instead the FBI recovered the remains [undocumented of course] and proceeded to bring them into the DMORT facility they erected for Miller and the task of identifying the deceased. The FBI then in turn would bring the remains to Miller without any proper documentation of their chain of custody or place of location.

The FBI also provided Miller the list of names of who he would find and provided samples of those said individuals to Miller.

So they gave Miller the names of the victims, the remains of the victims, & the DNA samples to test against those remains to confirm their identities. The FBI took Wally Miller by the hand and led him down the path of the deceived. And with that they accomplished their necessary ending to their story in Shanksville.

That is my conclusion based on over 2.5 years researching hands on with many many hours logged interviewing eyewitnesses in person, over the phone, through email, & on video. Taken their accounts and seeing how they fit with the little one sentences released by the corporate media of other witnesses and putting the puzzle together.

Ultimately I cannot tell you what happened to the plane that flew in front of Bob Blair & Doug Miller, passed Viola Saylor, & then was heard flying overhead by McClatchey and all the Indian Lake residents. But I can tell you it did not crash in a field in Lambertsville [Shanksville] on the morning of 9/11 and the case made that it did by the US Government and 9/11 Commission and corporate media fails epically to scrutiny and a new fully open public transparent hearing is necessary to finally finding out and understanding the truth of what really happened on the morning of 9/11.

http://z3.invisionfree.com/CIT/index.php?showtopic=532&st=0
 

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Killtown
December 31, 2009

I issued this challenge for skeptics to prove the part of the official story that says most of Flight 93 buried itself underground. Not only has no one been able to pass my challenge, most skeptics actually agree with me that most of Flight 93 didn't bury itself! However, they contend most of the plane burying is not the official story and that most of Flight 93's wreckage remained above ground, but offer no estimate of what percentage that was (of course).

Skeptics are in quite a pickle by believing 95% of Flight 93 was recovered at the scene, but can't locate where the bulk of that amount of wreckage was before the cleanup started.

Arguably the most absurd claim of the alleged Shanksville crash: Officials claim Flight 93's cockpit 'broke off' into the woods; remains were found inside.

http://killtown.blogspot.com/2009/12/year-end-review-of-my-911-research.html


Killtown
January 28, 2010

After the alleged crash of Flight 93, hardly much of the large Boeing 757 looked to be left. Most of the plane seemed to have been obliterated.

Approx two weeks later, the FBI made an astonishing announcement to the media that refuted the assumption that most of Flight 93 obliterated. The FBI claimed that they had recovered a whopping 95% of the plane!

But do you see anywhere close to 95% of a Boeing 757 left at that field? Hardly. More like only 5% of a 757 left.

So where did most of the plane go if 95% was recovered?

Well get this. Officials claim that, because Flight 93 crashed at a 40-degree angle into a patch of soft soil going so fast, most of the 757 actually burrowed underground!

But one only has to look at a closeup aerial photo of the shallow 10ft deep crater to know that is absurd.

To further the absurdity, the reason there is no deep 40-degree angle hole in the ground that a Boeing 757 just supposedly bore down through is because after most of Flight 93 tunneled down into the ground, official said the loose soil fell back in on itself and covered the hole, thus blocking any view that most of Flight 93 was down there.

And if the official story couldn't get any more absurd, the section of Flight 93 that didn't find itself underground, but separated at impact and bounced in the woods was, get this, the cockpit.

http://killtown.blogspot.com/2010/01/flight-93-crash-was-massive-hoax.html


Killtown
May 25, 2010

The official claim:

95% of 757 recovered

but

only 8% of passenger remains recovered

yet

miraculously enough to identify 100% of the 44 passengers

but mindbogglingly

the Coroner reports never seeing a single drop of blood, fresh or dried.

then factor in

out of the carnage that caused a 757 to shatter into mostly small plate-sized pieces and causing 44 passengers to be reduced to hamburger meat resulting in only 8% total left, this pristine red bandanna, that was supposedly around the head of one of the hijackers on board, was allegedly found amongst the carnage without a snagged thread.

These odds are so great and so unbelievable that it supports a conspiracy.

http://killtown.blogspot.com/2010/05/claim-of-only-8-of-flight-93-passenger.html
 

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SUPERMNNN
Tong Li, phD.
SuperNova International, Inc.
1709 Thompson St.
Lansing, MI 48906
7th Aug 2006

EVENT/LOCATION --------- TIME (sec)
NEW BALTIMORE DEBRIS----- 0
FIRST TRANSPONDER SIG---- 45
SECOND TRANSPONDER SIG-- 90
INDIAN LAKE DEBRIS--------- 128
ENGINE PART FELL----------- 170
CRASHING------------------- 180

Look at the event sequence and vincinity of our marked events on the time line of Voice Recorder Transcript, keep in mind of the following:
1. The plane lost one engine above New Baltimore while flying from Cleveland to Wahsington DC.
2. It made a U-turn above New Baltimore (assuming somewhere after New Baltimore)
3. It might be a cockpit fire (from burned pilot mannual, if an engine debris went into the cockpit, it was likely to cause fire)
4. The plane passed Indian Lake, endured some EVENT which caused a wide spread debris.
5. The last few seconds, the plane lost the last engine, stalled and dived into crash site.

http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-237976.html
 

lightninboy

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For now anyway I've settled on a theory for Flight 93: Lisa Guiliani and Victor Thorn

The Shanksville crater was created by a missile, Flight 93 or whatever it was was flying southeast from Shanksville over Indian Lake and it crashed at New Baltimore.

I'll try to explain the reasons for it.

It feels good to settle on a theory which you feel is hard to prove wrong.
 

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