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Another horse scenario

S

Soapweed

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
16,264
Location
northern Nebraska Sandhills
I have always been a horse lover and have owned many equines during my lifetime. They might not get to stay on this ranch for their entire life, but while they are here, they receive good feed and water and humane compassionate treatment.

A year ago last September, Saddletramp and I attended a horse sale where a ranch was going out of business and dispersing their entire cavvy of 35 broke saddle geldings. Always a sucker for a good looking horse, I purchased three that day. We were just ready to start our fall cattle work, and put a lot of miles on all three of these horses.

We right away found out that the young Paint had an ingrained hatred of being in a barn. He must feel clausrophobic, because he just goes ballistic. We work around the problem and just hobble him outside the door to saddle him. The horse can't be tied up, inside or out, because he pulls back. After he is saddled, it takes another half hour of round corral work before he is fit to ride.

We have put a lot of miles on this horse in the past year and a half. He lacks endurance and try after you do get him going. I cannot, with any kind of clear conscience, sell the horse as a saddle horse to some other party. I would feel guilty riding him through a horse sale ring, because I do not want to see someone else get hurt. The horse will never be a great horse, so our time would be better spent working with prospects that have more potential to really amount to something.

To my way of thinking, I should run this horse through an auction, loose, and "let the buyer beware." The horse would do more people more good in meat form than he ever will as a saddle horse.

A couple months ago, I sold two nice six-year-old Angus cows to our local locker plant. They were as pretty as cows can get, and both were bred. They would have brought top dollar as bred cows. The trouble was that both were mean. One came right out of the herd at me last spring. She was with a hundred other cows and their calves, and I was on foot quite a ways from a fence. She ran a hundred yards towards me, and just before she was going to hit me, I jumped at her and hollered. Fortunately for me she veered off and went back to the herd. I couldn't with a clear conscience even sell her as a weigh-up at a local barn. Some old farmer might buy her thinking she might have a calf. The locker was a perfect place for her and her equally evil sister.

Anyway, a bad horse is no different from a nasty cow, or a killer dog, or a wolf or mountain lion. They need to be done away with before they do away with a person or other beautiful gentle useful animal. A packing plant is a good place for undesirable livestock, and at least they are utilized in a positive fashion.
 
Right on the nose Soapweed.

There should be a method of gettin rid of unwanted, or unusable horses. Just as there are places to do this with cows, dogs...etc.

Any of you ever watched some of the SPCA shows on the animal channel know how they test dogs for adoptability. They see how they react with people.....thru all phases....play....feeding time....etc. If they show aggression of any kind, they are put down and not allowed into the adoption program.

Basically the horses that are problem horses, for whatever reason. They've been tested in real life situations by the owner, whether it be on a ranch, in an arena, or just a trail horse. If they have problems that can't be fixed (which some of them do) then there should be a means of gettin rid of them, where they can still be of some use to someone. Soapweed sums it up nicely in both these posts he's done on horse senerios.
 
My buddy was working a horse for a neighbor-I've never seen such an Outlaw SOB in my life-he'd chase you out of the roundpen the first day he was there. My friends Dad told us 'I'd shoot that bastard and buy two pigs to feed him too and I don't like pigs.' My buddy spent hours with that horse and got him gentle enough to saddle but you never could ride him he'd just throw himself upside down in midair. He had a real broncy clawhammer head but was too counterfeit to even make a rodeo horse. He sure as heck never got spoiled at his first home either he was a just a bad cat.
 
That just goes to show that plenty of the wrong kind of miles and lots of wet saddle blankits from somebody who doesnt understand what needs to be done is not the answer.
Im not saying this to put anybody down. Im not picking. Im just trying to help although I have a gut feeling that you dont want any help unless it envolves blameing the horse.
I cant give you the answers in a few paragraphs because its more complicated than that and to be honest I dont think anybody on here cares anyway.
Anyway for the sake of your horses, can I dare ask what training programs or trainers are you familiar with?
 
RoperAB said:
That just goes to show that plenty of the wrong kind of miles and lots of wet saddle blankits from somebody who doesnt understand what needs to be done is not the answer.
Im not saying this to put anybody down. Im not picking. Im just trying to help although I have a gut feeling that you dont want any help unless it envolves blameing the horse.
I cant give you the answers in a few paragraphs because its more complicated than that and to be honest I dont think anybody on here cares anyway.
Anyway for the sake of your horses, can I dare ask what training programs or trainers are you familiar with?
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I am an ongoing student in the School of Hard Knocks. Plenty of tuition has been paid by me for the learning I have acquired. I am not a disciple of Gurus, and don't claim to be one myself. RoperAB, you must be a perfect cowboy in an Utopian World. Congratulations, you are a very special person. I cannot hold a candle to you and your high expectations, and will be the first to admit my shortfalls.

Back in the Real World in which most of us live, there are prisons for people who cannot and will not follow basic rules of Society. People who are criminals, murderers, and rapists deserve to be locked up. For the real bad cases, capital punishment is recommended. Animals can be just as bad, if not worse, that the worst of evil people. Why should an outlaw horse be allowed to live out their life in pastures of knee high clover just because it is an exalted horse?
 
There are crazy people-could go on forever on that line,-there are crazy dogs.Even the great Barbra Woodhouse(sp) recomended some dogs to be put down. There are crazy horses-too many good,deserving ones in the world to put up with the bad ones..No reason to put up with a bad cow.Unless she's your "watchcow"..Saying all that,different folks see things differently,and my trash may be your treasure.. If you don't like the animal,sell it with full disclosuer..You'll sleep better
 
This will be my first post on here, very new to this. I have been reading posts and looking at all the great pictures for quite some time. soapweed. you hit the nail on the head!! I am amazed at what i read on here and what some people think, or lack of (thinking). Where has common sense disappeared to?


soapweed, did you work for LD Frome out at jackson, just curious I worked for his brother Ted, years ago fresh out of high school lotta of yearlings.
 
RoperAB said:
When I got rid of my ego, my horsemanship improved :lol:
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Your a legend in your own mind.From what I've seen of people who bang their own drum they would be better off being quiet.
 
Soapweed is right,
Life is to short to put up with cows that hunt, and horses that will get somebody hurt. Sometimes the best training or top genetics don't work, and the best you can do isn't enough to get a positive outcome.
I'd rather sell a bad one at a loss and come back to work and family the next day, and the next day, and the next day.
There's to many good ones out there to put with a few bad ones, and if that makes me a poor hand so be it.
 
MoFescue said:
This will be my first post on here, very new to this. I have been reading posts and looking at all the great pictures for quite some time. soapweed. you hit the nail on the head!! I am amazed at what i read on here and what some people think, or lack of (thinking). Where has common sense disappeared to?


soapweed, did you work for LD Frome out at jackson, just curious I worked for his brother Ted, years ago fresh out of high school lotta of yearlings.
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Yes, I worked for L.D. Frome in the late summer and fall hunting season of 1971. My first "assignment" was a twelve-day pack trip which started at the South Entrance of Yellowstone Park, and ended at Frome's base camp on Box Creek, where it runs into the south fork of the Buffalo on Turpin Meadow, northeast of Moran Junction. On that trip there were ten on the crew, 20 guests, 30 saddle horses, and 35 pack horses and mules. The last night of the pack trip, we got into the darndest lightning storm I've ever been in. It rained a good inch that night, and we awoke the next morning to a foot of snow on the ground. We saddled all the guest's horses and sent them to the road with two of the crew. Then we packed all the guest's duffel and bed rolls, sending four of the crew with that pack string. The remaining four of us packed up all the kitchen gear and tents. It was a cold wet ride for the twelve miles to base camp.

That whole hunting season I averaged riding thirty miles per day. It was a fun and adventuresome way to spend the fall. I never fired a shot the whole time I was up there, but sure did enjoy the horseback way of life. We were in the Teton Wilderness Area, where no motors were allowed. We sawed all the firewood by hand, and went through one seventy foot lodgepole pine per day. Great memories.
 
soapweed, it sure is a small world, I went out the summer of 86 went to work for outfitter in star valley,started packing in a camp in july, all of august and the first hunters arrivred in sept. The camp was up swift creek 8 miles in logged several miles there in a short time. Anyway i met LD once and knew his daughter Karen fairly well. The guy i was working for his brother managed Ted's yearling operation so the next spring i worked for him. We started processing cattle in the spring aprox. 5000hd turned them out to grass from carey Id, to jackson Wy and several ranches in between there. Wish i knew how many miles i rode that summer, and how many steers we roped, seen alot of good dog work and met some real good hands. ah your article i read about Frome's camp sure brouhgt back good memorys. THANKS!! I'll be out your way feb 21 At burwell, I've been buying bulls from a family out at stapelton Ne for the last 5 years. (cedar top ranch) do you know of them?
 
MoFescue said:
soapweed, it sure is a small world, I went out the summer of 86 went to work for outfitter in star valley,started packing in a camp in july, all of august and the first hunters arrivred in sept. The camp was up swift creek 8 miles in logged several miles there in a short time. Anyway i met LD once and knew his daughter Karen fairly well. The guy i was working for his brother managed Ted's yearling operation so the next spring i worked for him. We started processing cattle in the spring aprox. 5000hd turned them out to grass from carey Id, to jackson Wy and several ranches in between there. Wish i knew how many miles i rode that summer, and how many steers we roped, seen alot of good dog work and met some real good hands. ah your article i read about Frome's camp sure brouhgt back good memorys. THANKS!! I'll be out your way feb 21 At burwell, I've been buying bulls from a family out at stapelton Ne for the last 5 years. (cedar top ranch) do you know of them?
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That is interesting. Ted Frome had 700 calves with one of my neighbors several years ago. He brought them in as bawling calves in October. My neighbor fed them hay and cake that winter, and then had summer grass for them. If they would have been sold in July or August they would have made Mr. Frome a hundred dollars per head in profit. He chose to put them in a feedlot, and they ended up losing two hundred dollars per head. Who needs to gamble in Las Vegas when all they have to do is own cattle?

I don't know the folks at Cedar Top Ranch, but I'll bet they have good bulls. There aren't many bad ones in the Sandhills.

Take care.
 
Now Soapy, I'm dissappointed. You passed up a chance for some free advice from the whisperer himself and went on to talk about a mundane lightning storm in the Tetons! Too many good horses around to try & get someone hurt. I'm in your camp on this issue. I got stung with a goofey ol outlaw and really didn't appreciate it. I guess if he can sleep with it, I can. Better to forfiet a few bucks than a friend you may or may not have met.
 
I agree with N/D, life is too short. Chicken feed him, oh wait a minute, Bo Dereck says we can't do that anymore, Chicken feed him anyway!
 
Shortgrass said:
Now Soapy, I'm dissappointed. You passed up a chance for some free advice from the whisperer himself and went on to talk about a mundane lightning storm in the Tetons! Too many good horses around to try & get someone hurt. I'm in your camp on this issue. I got stung with a goofey ol outlaw and really didn't appreciate it. I guess if he can sleep with it, I can. Better to forfiet a few bucks than a friend you may or may not have met.
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RoperAB is probably a pretty good hand. I don't know that he is or know that he isn't. That is immaterial. I don't care how he sells or gets rid of his old unusable horses. That is his choice. I just think he should show me and other horse owners the same respect. I wish he would stick to his "horse whispering" and quit jumping on the band wagon with all the other Liberal "horse babblers" who insist on trying to tell the rest of us how to get rid of horses we don't want.

Being humane or inhumane should be the issue. It has been already been established that it is "more humane" to sell horses to slaughter than it is to watch them suffer from starvation, old age, or lack of attention.

Bonafide horse owners, who love and cherish their animals just as much as RoperAB does his, have responded to my "poll". They have overwhelmingly by a vote of 40 to 3, shown me that the majority of us do favor the option of slaughtering old or unusable horses. How much more plain does it have to be than that?
 
Soapweed...I like and respect you but its obvious you don't read ALL of Ropers posts...he is NOT,I reapeat NOT a liberal.He may have liberal thoughts as far as the horse slaughter goes,and I believe its because of his love of horses he has this belief. BUT its a FACT the boy is very conservative :!:
 

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