Back to the Beer

[Red Robin]

It's funny how you liberal lackeys squall when a conservative makes a generalization but when you make a generalization and are confronted to provide facts you are silent. Could it be your open mind is void of intellectual matter and that you are completely programed and driven by the leftist propaganda you have been force fed by the liberal elite establishment ??? I'm personally glad to have positions on issues I am convinced of and willing to defend.

 

[CattleRMe]

For social issues I do not agree with homeschooling. I think to many families take the religious card to get to do it and in turn just do it to make their lives easier. Say by not having to drive them to school or by not having to stick to a schedule.

 

[Red Robin]

For social issues I do not agree with homeschooling. I think to many families take the religious card to get to do it and in turn just do it to make their lives easier. Say by not having to drive them to school or by not having to stick to a schedule.

Of course that is just your limited opinion. If you are correct, I guess it doesn't hurt their learning ability.

The largest data set on the academic success of the home educated reveals positive things. 16,311 students from across the country were tested with the nationally normed Iowa Test of Basic Skills. The nationwide average for the homeschooled on the Basic Battery (i.e., reading, language, and math) was the 77th percentile. They were at the 79th percentile in reading, the 73rd in language, and the 73rd in math. (The national average is the 50th percentile.) See the table on this sheet.5
Reading Language Math
Conventional Schools 50 50 50
Home Education 79 73 73

Canada's largest study of its kind revealed similar findings on the academic success of the home educated. Dr. Brian Ray found the students scoring, on average, at the 80th percentile in reading, the 76th in language, and the 79th in math. Students whose parents were certified teachers did no better than the other students.6

Dr. Steven Duvall compared the academic engaged time (AET) and basic skill development of learning disabled students who were home educated to those in public school special education programs. Higher rates of AET and greater academic gains were made by the home educated. "... parents, even without special education training, provided powerful instructional environments at home..." (p. 11).7

Repeatedly, across North America, the home educated score as well as or better, on average, than those in conventional schools.8

 

[CattleRMe]

I have a bunch of acquaintances who homeschool and have followed homeschooling for a while as an interesting, somewhat flawed, concept. It's clear that SOME homeschooled kids get a far better education, but that the parents and kids have to work hard at the peer socialization angle. Often they petition the public schools to let the kids be involved in the after school public school activities. And in some cases, the homeschooled kids are not fully socialized, depending upon the parents. And in some cases they are definitely odd.

I won't dispute that the right parent can provide a better education to the homeschooled kid. I had my kids in private (mostly parochial) schools in elementary. My son was in a very good private junior high school and the quality of his education -- in some classes -- was incomparable. Public schools use textbooks which water down the language and the concepts to the lowest common denominator and that turns out to be a flawed approach too. My son was reading original materials in social studies / history from age 12 and once he got over the first hurdles, developed a richer vocabulary, ability to read difficult material, and more mature conceptual thinking than his public school peers. On the other hand, our public schools are excellent in many aspects and his private school did not do well in math or foreign language. It did much better in the humanities and social sciences and in some sciences.

Home schooling has to be approved and follow a curriculum I believe. Or at the home schoolers I know have a network, a curriculum and so forth.

I asked a group of homeshoolers if the state mandated any of the education and the answer was no that is in the state of Nebraska.

They get to choose their own curriculum and many of them in this area go with a religious company for their curriculum needs. The state does not even make the children be tested at the end of the year to see where they are or if they are in fact being educated by their parents. In order to graduate they have to pass the local ged program. I volunteered for the ged program one year and can say from being their the educational standards for the ged are much lower then taking classes at the high school.

I can think of one family in this area who's children are socially way behind and also educationally due to the fact of the poor home schooling job of their mother. Yet the state of Nebraska doesn't mandate tests or even check on these children to make sure their parents choices are not holding them back in life.

 

[Red Robin]

I asked a group of homeshoolers if the state mandated any of the education and the answer was no that is in the state of Nebraska.

The government school system can't sweep their own doorstep. Gangs, crime, racial tension, illiteracy, etc. probably needs to be addressed before they take on more tasks like mandating home school text books.

 

[CattleRMe]

Red Robin what about an 18 year old boy that reads maybe at the forth grade level because of the lack of home schooling his mother really did??? The state shouldn't get involved in that????

 

[Faster horses]

I want to tell you CattleRMe, that our banker will tell you that he graduated from Public High School and could not read. He had to learn
to speed read to enter college. He said once this family thought about sueing the school system because he didn't get a quality education.
They just passed him along.

 

[IL Rancher]

God, there are plenty of kids coming out of HS around this glorious nation with reading levels that are either non existant or below 4th grade.. The public school system in much of this country is a disaster and it is only getting worse... The more stories I hear about what goes on in them the more I am looking for alternatives as my children get older. The priorties in a lot of these schools are way out of kilter and their seams to be no accountability... I really, really, really wish our school systems were set up like they are in many european countries in which the dollars are tied to where the kids go to school regardles of wether it is private. public or relgious of some sort.

 

[ranchwife]

I want to tell you CattleRMe, that our banker will tell you that he graduated from Public High School and could not read. He had to learn
to speed read to enter college. He said once this family thought about sueing the school system because he didn't get a quality education.
They just passed him along.

my ex-husband graduated in the top 10 of his class (of a whopping 82 students) and yet he could not read, write or do simple, basic arithmatic!! I cannot tell you how many nights I spent "tutoring" him and helping him fill out job applications because he did not understand what "prior experience" was!!

I look at my own children (including the 19 year old who dropped out of high school mid way through his senior year because the teachers and the administrator labelled him a "lost cause") and wish with all my heart and soul that I had had the time and the ambition to home school him!! However, I am NOT a teacher and do not feel qualified!!! I did not go to school to teach and I honestly do not feel as though I could have done they job they do!!

 

[Red Robin]

The difference between home schooled and government schooled kids is most noticable in the minority races. It's quite dramatic. Another benefit of home school is it saves the taxpayer around $4000 bucks per kid.
Think what you want CattleRMe but the government school system is the one in real trouble, not the home schools.
http://www.naaha.com/homeschoolingbenefits.htm

 

[CattleRMe]

I want to tell you CattleRMe, that our banker will tell you that he graduated from Public High School and could not read. He had to learn
to speed read to enter college. He said once this family thought about sueing the school system because he didn't get a quality education.
They just passed him along.

my ex-husband graduated in the top 10 of his class (of a whopping 82 students) and yet he could not read, write or do simple, basic arithmatic!! I cannot tell you how many nights I spent "tutoring" him and helping him fill out job applications because he did not understand what "prior experience" was!!

I look at my own children (including the 19 year old who dropped out of high school mid way through his senior year because the teachers and the administrator labelled him a "lost cause") and wish with all my heart and soul that I had had the time and the ambition to home school him!! However, I am NOT a teacher and do not feel qualified!!! I did not go to school to teach and I honestly do not feel as though I could have done they job they do!!

I don't understand how someone that lacking of educational skills (not being sarcastic i swear) could graduate in the top 10? Makes one wonder what the other 72 were like. :???:

 

[CattleRMe]

The difference between home schooled and government schooled kids is most noticable in the minority races. It's quite dramatic. Another benefit of home school is it saves the taxpayer around $4000 bucks per kid.
Think what you want CattleRMe but the government school system is the one in real trouble, not the home schools.
http://www.naaha.com/homeschoolingbenefits.htm

The social aspects of public school are an important step for children into the real world. They learn about peer pressure, responsibility of self, and start to gain independance from dear old mom and dad. These factors helping them cope in the real world. I believer strongly in academics however I feel some one can be the smartest person around and if they can't handle the outside world they won't be as successful as the person who can handle the world and are mediocre students.

 

[CJ]

I have mixed views on home schooling. It has become fairly popular in this area for a variety of reasons. I know of some families who work very hard at it and the children have done well and are really fine young citizens. Others, not so well. We have no requirement for testing or even for graduation by passing a GED test. I know of several kids who haven't even tried to take the test. I have seen the effect of this first hand. My ex brother in laws family was mostly supposedly home schooled. They are an extreme example, but far from the only one I know of. They didn't want their children exposed to the influence of "bad people". I think they had good, but mis-guided intentions in the beginning and really seemed to work at school for a few years with some of the older children. They also were involved in outside activities for social development of the kids. After a few years though they quit working so much, until the children were no longer being schooled at all. Still they would not allow the kids to go to school in town. I could take up a whole page with the trainwreck they built in their own house, but I'll just tell you this. They had eight children. The oldest two went to public school until the oldest was in high school, the other in junior high. The oldest is an attorney for the government. She got the heck out of Dodge and didn't look back. The second went to a two year college and if she could get away from the influence of her parents, would be a fine young lady. ALL of the younger ones are now or soon will be drains on society, through welfare and medicaid paying for their tribe of illegitimate children,etc.. These kids can't function in the world, or for some reason feel they don't need to. Even if they wanted to participate in the world of work, they aren't employable. There are still, I believe, two of school age, that are headed down the same hill. And now they have started over with the grand children.
The point of this rant is this. If home schooling works for you, great. I'll support your right to do it. If you find you can't or don't want to work that hard at it, I won't willingly support your kids for the rest of their lives because you were too lazy or unable to teach them. If that is the case, get them back in school where they belong.

 

[Northern Rancher]

I wouldn't say all home scholing is bad-I coach alot of homeschooled kids in hockey there are as well adjusted and socialized as any. As for those 72 other kids from the previous thread-I wonder how many of them are card carrying R-Calfers lol. I think alot of parents who home school because of problems with the school system would get along better if they interacted with the teachers a bit more. I have four kids in public school here-all their teachers are very approachable about any concerns that might arise. I'm lucky that my kids are doing well in school but if there was a problem there is lots of resources available to deal with it. One thing I'll have to say most public schooled Americans are terrible at Geography-don't really know much about that great frozen land mass to the north of you.

 

[Faster horses]

Hey NR, on "Who wants to be a Millionaire" tonight, one question was "what provice in Canada does not border the US."

And I knew the answer.

The choices were Sask., Newfundland, Alberda, Manitoba.

How about that? :wink:

 

[Northern Rancher]

Kudos to you m'lady. Bet you brushed up after I teased you before lol.

 

[Faster horses]

Well, put it this way, I wouldn't have known the answer before that
incident. :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

 

[TSR]

I asked a group of homeshoolers if the state mandated any of the education and the answer was no that is in the state of Nebraska.

The government school system can't sweep their own doorstep. Gangs, crime, racial tension, illiteracy, etc. probably needs to be addressed before they take on more tasks like mandating home school text books.

In at least one state (TN) they have to take the same test as the public school students at the end of the school year, or so I am told. I have several teacher friends and they all say that MOST home schoolers are behind when compared to the regular school kids and I would agree they have no reason to lie. This day and time it generally takes 2 parents working to make a living this puts stress on home schoolers. I know that some mothers stay home just to home school which is their right. But I really wonder that by the time those kids get to the Jr. High level how many of those parents are proficient enough in Algebra etc. Just my thoughts.

 

[TSR]

I wouldn't say all home scholing is bad-I coach alot of homeschooled kids in hockey there are as well adjusted and socialized as any. As for those 72 other kids from the previous thread-I wonder how many of them are card carrying R-Calfers lol. I think alot of parents who home school because of problems with the school system would get along better if they interacted with the teachers a bit more. I have four kids in public school here-all their teachers are very approachable about any concerns that might arise. I'm lucky that my kids are doing well in school but if there was a problem there is lots of resources available to deal with it. One thing I'll have to say most public schooled Americans are terrible at Geography-don't really know much about that great frozen land mass to the north of you.

Generally speaking the public school system in the US is a very successful system. It does get the blame undeservedly many times for societal ills. I am glad NR that you have a good relationship with your children's teachers. You made a very good point --work with your teachers. Some want to blame everything on the teachers which helps no one.

 

[CattleRMe]

I asked a group of homeshoolers if the state mandated any of the education and the answer was no that is in the state of Nebraska.

The government school system can't sweep their own doorstep. Gangs, crime, racial tension, illiteracy, etc. probably needs to be addressed before they take on more tasks like mandating home school text books.

In at least one state (TN) they have to take the same test as the public school students at the end of the school year, or so I am told. I have several teacher friends and they all say that MOST home schoolers are behind when compared to the regular school kids and I would agree they have no reason to lie. This day and time it generally takes 2 parents working to make a living this puts stress on home schoolers. I know that some mothers stay home just to home school which is their right. But I really wonder that by the time those kids get to the Jr. High level how many of those parents are proficient enough in Algebra etc. Just my thoughts.

I would wonder that also :???: