Black Herefords

[katrina]

The "Black Hereford" looks to be just a science project. Someone thought it would be cool to try to breed a "purebred" black one. Well, the good of the black baldy is in the heterosis. So, if you make a Black Hereford, you must have done so by using some weird genetics in the Hereford breed to create that black color, or perhaps dipped into another gene pool to paint the canvas a little. Where's the heterosis? Why is a black baldy a sought after animal? HETEROSIS. So use Angus and Hereford and make an F1 cow or F1 feeder calves. No need to even have a purebred "Black Hereford".
Where do they fit? In somebody's hobby farm. That's my humble opinion, of course. :wink:


HP

:clap: :agree:

 

[CattleArmy]

Why not just cross a Hereford cow with a Black Angus bull and call it a Black Herfeord if a person has to put herford in the name?

We have a handful of Herefords (ok my Dad does and my youngest does) and when I see them it reminds me of my grandfather. He was a strong Herford man and it took years and years to ever get him convinced to go Angus. My uncles used to tell him a Hereford when calving goes behind the hill and prolapses while an Angus goes behind the hill and has a calf just slick.

Sunburned bags make for long days and hungry calves! ick!

I have owned and run my own cattle for 58 years,always herefords,and no doubt we have as much sun on snow as any where.In all that time we have treated sun-burn bags one time. Also in the last 12 years we have had one prolapse a BLACK!!

Maybe my grandfathers herd wasn't used to the sun. 8) If that is all the sun burned bags you have ran into then lucky you. It sure wasn't that way when my grandfather had them and it's not that way for us either. We have even had black/white face cows with a white tits end up burnt. Maybe it's the combination of the sun and the wind here?

 

[CattleArmy]

Why not just cross a Hereford cow with a Black Angus bull and call it a Black Herfeord if a person has to put herford in the name?

We have a handful of Herefords (ok my Dad does and my youngest does) and when I see them it reminds me of my grandfather. He was a strong Herford man and it took years and years to ever get him convinced to go Angus. My uncles used to tell him a Hereford when calving goes behind the hill and prolapses while an Angus goes behind the hill and has a calf just slick.

Sunburned bags make for long days and hungry calves! ick!

I have owned and run my own cattle for 58 years,always herefords,and no doubt we have as much sun on snow as any where.In all that time we have treated sun-burn bags one time. Also in the last 12 years we have had one prolapse a BLACK!!

Easy Juan, you're old enough to know that every new generation "knows" they can build a better mouse trap! When/if they are at this as long as you, they will learn that it's not the breed, IT'S THE BREEDER!!!!

Sorry fellas but the sale barns here pay higher for black hides. I'm just as about producing a quality animal as anyone else here but I also think that taking into consideration what the buyers want makes for good business.

When we A.I. we use hereford bulls for clean up bulls for two reasons. Number one if the calving date is close and it's a toss up to if it was pasture bred or AIed the little white face or color makes it easier to tell or at least asssume and two everyone on this place likes the cross produced.

 

[Horseless]

It's sad to see someone trying create black herefords. But, I think I have seen some Black Charolais, but they call them Angus. :wink:

 

[kolanuraven]

It's sad to see someone trying create black herefords. But, I think I have seen some Black Charolais, but they call them Angus. :wink:

There was such a creature called a black Charolais.

I remember when we had ' Chevys' back in the 80's someone came up with them. I thought they just looked like muddy Chevys.

I wonder what happened with that....I hadn't thought about them till your post.


**********************


I looked and this is one place I found. They got red ones now!!! They sure look a lot better than they did yrs ago.

http://www.laueranch.com/charolais.html

 

[Soapweed]

It's sad to see someone trying create black herefords. But, I think I have seen some Black Charolais, but they call them Angus. :wink:

A black Angus won some kind of Grand Prize at the Denver Stock Show years ago. The prize was rescinded when the black shoe polish rubbed off, and the black critter was found to be a white Charolais instead. :roll:

 

[katrina]

Why not just cross a Hereford cow with a Black Angus bull and call it a Black Herfeord if a person has to put herford in the name?

We have a handful of Herefords (ok my Dad does and my youngest does) and when I see them it reminds me of my grandfather. He was a strong Herford man and it took years and years to ever get him convinced to go Angus. My uncles used to tell him a Hereford when calving goes behind the hill and prolapses while an Angus goes behind the hill and has a calf just slick.

Sunburned bags make for long days and hungry calves! ick!

I have owned and run my own cattle for 58 years,always herefords,and no doubt we have as much sun on snow as any where.In all that time we have treated sun-burn bags one time. Also in the last 12 years we have had one prolapse a BLACK!!

Easy Juan, you're old enough to know that every new generation "knows" they can build a better mouse trap! When/if they are at this as long as you, they will learn that it's not the breed, IT'S THE BREEDER!!!!

Ditto!!!!
Well said....... I just happen to be in town and watched Wolfenden Herefords kick some black ass at the local salebarn.. Helloooo!!!!!!!
Each and every breed has a purpose and I tip my hat to those that do so. :tiphat:

 

[Turkey Track Bar]

It's sad to see someone trying create black herefords. But, I think I have seen some Black Charolais, but they call them Angus. :wink:

A black Angus won some kind of Grand Prize at the Denver Stock Show years ago. The prize was rescinded when the black shoe polish rubbed off, and the black critter was found to be a white Charolais instead. :roll:

Soap...

That bull was called Big Mac...cheaters obviously come in all shapes and sizes, and can be found in all places...

Just goes to prove the saying there are no bad breeds, just bad breeders...

I agree with the others, that the black Herf is just someones science project. In many markets, Herefords and other "red" hided cattle hold their own, and often outsell the "blacks." Two that quickly come to mind are St. Onge and Mobridge, SD.

As well, Juan, my folks raise Herfs at nearly 8,000 feet of elevation, in a place that gets a huge pile of snow, and I don't ever recall dealing with sunburned udders. I'd think that if there ever was place that would have issues it would be there. I'd suggest those differences are genetic differences, just like prolapses. I don't think we ever dealt with prolapses, but because of Brisket Disease, we didn't use the "line" of Herefords that prolapsed!

Cheers---

TTB :wink:

 

[DJL]

We oiled lots of sunburned bags when we had herefords, but not near as many as our purebred hereford breeder neighbors. We had an August snowstorm one year, and the neighbors were actually oiling bags, and were surprised that we didn't do any. If the calf can't figure out how to suck (this is August, remember) too bad!
I'll stick with black angus. I sew up enough hereford prolapses in the feedlot to keep my memories refreshed as to why we went Angus. :lol: :lol:

 

[Soapweed]

We oiled lots of sunburned bags when we had herefords, but not near as many as our purebred hereford breeder neighbors. We had an August snowstorm one year, and the neighbors were actually oiling bags, and were surprised that we didn't do any. If the calf can't figure out how to suck (this is August, remember) too bad!
I'll stick with black angus. I sew up enough hereford prolapses in the feedlot to keep my memories refreshed as to why we went Angus. :lol: :lol:

I concur. :wink:

 

[Juan]

It's sad to see someone trying create black herefords. But, I think I have seen some Black Charolais, but they call them Angus. :wink:

 

[Juan]

We oiled lots of sunburned bags when we had herefords, but not near as many as our purebred hereford breeder neighbors. We had an August snowstorm one year, and the neighbors were actually oiling bags, and were surprised that we didn't do any. If the calf can't figure out how to suck (this is August, remember) too bad!
I'll stick with black angus. I sew up enough hereford prolapses in the feedlot to keep my memories refreshed as to why we went Angus. :lol: :lol:

I concur. :wink:

Soap----wasn't it this spring you put pictures on this site of two BLACKS you were sewing?

 

[Juan]

It's sad to see someone trying create black herefords. But, I think I have seen some Black Charolais, but they call them Angus. :wink:

A black Angus won some kind of Grand Prize at the Denver Stock Show years ago. The prize was rescinded when the black shoe polish rubbed off, and the black critter was found to be a white Charolais instead. :roll:

I remember that steer.I think it was grand champion fed steer.It was bought by Eddie Collins(the self proclaimed) marketing genius and put on display in Iowa.
Just wondering if any one knows what became of him? E.C. that is.

 

[Soapweed]

We oiled lots of sunburned bags when we had herefords, but not near as many as our purebred hereford breeder neighbors. We had an August snowstorm one year, and the neighbors were actually oiling bags, and were surprised that we didn't do any. If the calf can't figure out how to suck (this is August, remember) too bad!
I'll stick with black angus. I sew up enough hereford prolapses in the feedlot to keep my memories refreshed as to why we went Angus. :lol: :lol:

I concur. :wink:

Soap----wasn't it this spring you put pictures on this site of two BLACKS you were sewing?

One of them was just a yearling heifer (about 14 months old) that was so prolific she got bred while still sucking her mother. She had a little trouble calving, and prolapsed because of it. Of course the calf was dead. We had just gotten the heifers home from another ranch where they had spent the winter, and weren't aware that we had any pregnant heifers. This rancher had told me about another heifer that was pregnant, which we hauled home and watched closely. We saved that calf. Amazingly enough, both of this teenage mommas were again bred this fall.

All I know is that I have run my own version of the "hard-ass cattle company" for many years, and have culled very vigorously. That is why there are no Herefords or cow dogs on this outfit. :wink:

 

[Silver]

Only angus I ever had a lot to do with was on a ranch I worked on for a bit. We had about 2000 to calve out, so we had some prolapses. All angus. But the herd was mostly angus so odds were for it.
They were all uterin (sp?) prolapses so I would never blame the cow or the breed for that.

 

[SMN Herf]

There is someone somewhere that may make a black blady breed that is homozygous black, but it will take them a lifetime. Just like so mamy of these other breeds that were bred up from another breed rarely did any of them use their top end cows. It was more of a marketing tool so they could still market bulls out of their bottom end cows. I sure wish they wouldn't call it a Hereford though.

The "hard ass" cattle approach is nothing new to me. Been doing it that way from the time I started in the cattle business. I can't imagine anyone doing it any other way. My Herefords have prospered under my system. with no more work than our black cows. They can do anything that our Angus cows can do and some things a whole lot better. Plus they are a whole lot easier to handle.

Brian

 

[Ranchy]

I'm kinda trying to talk Al into a Hereford steer for 4-H this year, they do have great dispositions, and since he didn't keep Blondie's steer calf to take. He was half Hereford, Blondie is Char. He was a good looking calf, but had his mother's wild side bad. lol

The only time we ever had any trouble with prolapses was if the bull was Hereford..........they make big calves! Back when I was a teenager, we lost a heifer cause she'd bred to a Hereford bull......calf was just too big; and then I lost the milk cow's heifer, same reason. We pulled probably 3/4 of the calves we had on the ranch we were on in Encino, NM, back in 2000-2001, all Hereford sired.

Never saw a Hereford cow have a problem calving or prolapsing, really, though.

 

[Doug Thorson]

The only time we ever had any trouble with prolapses was if the bull was Hereford..........they make big calves! Back when I was a teenager, we lost a heifer cause she'd bred to a Hereford bull......calf was just too big; and then I lost the milk cow's heifer, same reason. We pulled probably 3/4 of the calves we had on the ranch we were on in Encino, NM, back in 2000-2001, all Hereford sired.

I would have to say that was the breeder. I almost never have a hereford sired calf that has any problem with birthweight. I never keep an animal that has 100# birthweight. Last year I never had one. My heifers are bred hereford and I sleep all night.

 

[jodywy]

Growing up here in Star Valley, valley floor around 6000 ft and summer range over 8000(sheep get the real high stuff up to 10,000).There was only one black angus herd for years and when they trailed by to their summer pasture which wasn't up the mountain about 10% of those old cows had their tongues out and had brisket disease. Well with better genetics and PAP testing there more black Angus herd here. Don't know what set it off this summer but saw about a dozen of those black cows come off the mountain with brisket disease , even saw a spring calf the neighbors had down on the river with it, that was a first.
My herd is a Hereford base, we run Hereford and Black Angus bull, plus there are some red Angus bulls on the common forest allotment. I moved calving up to March to get at least one cycle of calves out of my own bulls. Been averaging 70 to 83% in those first 22 days. We usually have 40 pulse inches of snow on the ground that time of year; calves don't pick bugs up off of packed snow. I have a large pasture below a big lot and corrals with a couple barns and open shed. The cows are in the pasture on a packed feed ground during the day before dark I open the gate to hay in the large lot, the cows that don't come in get chased in to a smaller corral and old barn horse back. They put in a lean too behind the big old bam , usually by 11pm each of those cows have calved. Next morning pairs go one way and the rest go to a lit feed of hay back in the pasture. We don't have sun burned bags, once in a while a frozen teat end but the black get those too. Been years since had any prolepses and they all daughters of one old cow. I do have a few one eyed cows but they seem to come years apart.
There more differents with in breeds then between them
My daughter likes to mess up a good angus, angus cross steer show every year....

march snow

pairs

one eyed cow

black twins

last pen to vaccinate

red show steer and black show hiefer

 

[SMN Herf]

The only time we ever had any trouble with prolapses was if the bull was Hereford..........they make big calves! Back when I was a teenager, we lost a heifer cause she'd bred to a Hereford bull......calf was just too big; and then I lost the milk cow's heifer, same reason. We pulled probably 3/4 of the calves we had on the ranch we were on in Encino, NM, back in 2000-2001, all Hereford sired.

The problem wasn't the breed, it was the bull! I have several bull customers that have used my bulls on their first calf heifers with great results. They tell me they check heifers and tag calves. Rarely touch a single heifer. When they sell their steers most of those bwf steers end up on the heavy load of straightbred angus steers.



Here is a picture of a bull I raised that was used on commercial angus herifers very successfully and I recently bought him back.

Last spring

Here is one from last week while out on corn stalks. Hasn't had any feed since last winter.

a cow and her calf from this past summer.