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Black Herefords

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Nice photos, you guys!

jody, how did your daughter's show cattle do at the fair? I like the looks of them both!

I know what you mean. I think that was one reason BIL got rid of the bull this fall........all their calves were pretty big. They have a small black one now, they said. I haven't seen him, so know nothing about him other than he's small and black. :lol:

Al's cattle were bred to Red Angus bulls this year.......guess we'll see how they turn out, looks like both Blondie and Tillie will have calves this spring. Bandi was too small to breed, so are waiting till she's 2. Not sure what we'll find for them this year.......time will tell, I suppose!
 
Just think how miniscule the Angus breed would be if EXT would of been the first bull of the breed lol. Most breeds have done a good job of getting rid of theiur garbage traits over the last twenty years-udders,prolapses,bad feet, dispositions etc. The problem is that some breeders within the breeds still have a bit of a blind eye. All Herefords don't prolapse and all Angus won't calve on heifers lol.
 
DJL said:
We oiled lots of sunburned bags when we had herefords, but not near as many as our purebred hereford breeder neighbors.
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There's the problem...seedstock providers should be culling those animals instead of medicating and passing the problems on to the commercial man. If a seedstock provider isn't raising better cattle while being tougher on them than the commercial man, how is he helping the commercial man????
 
Ranchy said:
Nice photos, you guys!

jody, how did your daughter's show cattle do at the fair? I like the looks of them both!

I know what you mean. I think that was one reason BIL got rid of the bull this fall........all their calves were pretty big. They have a small black one now, they said. I haven't seen him, so know nothing about him other than he's small and black. :lol:

Al's cattle were bred to Red Angus bulls this year.......guess we'll see how they turn out, looks like both Blondie and Tillie will have calves this spring. Bandi was too small to breed, so are waiting till she's 2. Not sure what we'll find for them this year.......time will tell, I suppose!
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that Steer and hiefer were 2 years ago, the Steer was 2nd in his class the hiefer won her class and was grand for breeding stock.
Last year she her stere ws 3rd it its class , but the grand and resever came from her class. He hereford would have won any of the other class that day. A few years ago the judge came in put her calf 4th we saw it hanging at the meat plant agaist the reserve steer too bad the judge wasn't there that day.
 
Well, let me ask it a different way. If you bred a black hereford cow to a black hereford bull would you still have the same heterosis as if you bred an angus cow to a hereford bull? If not, what the heck is the value of black herefords ???
 
Well, let me ask it a different way. If you bred a black hereford cow to a black hereford bull would you still have the same heterosis as if you bred an angus cow to a hereford bull? If not, what the heck is the value of black herefords ???
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Heterosis comes from 2 dissimilar animals being mated so I would say no. Black hereford, Gelveigh "balancers", Chiangus, etc., value debateable.
 
RobertMac said:
PureCountry said:
Whoa, whoa, whoa let's back up now RobertMac. :D I really like Jim's cattle, but I was thinking along the lines of some feathernecked cows to start with, bred to our Galloway bull. They'd be dandy baldy cows.

If I had some papered Hereford cows, a Lent's bull would be on my wish list, but I know there's folks in these parts with great ones, too. :wink:
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Come on, Pure, you were headed down the right road...don't get side tracked and regress...and it has nothing to do with "breed". Reread Jim's book and it will come to you.

There are many "great ones" out there...the trick is consistent replication...and, by definition, prepotency doesn't come with heterosis(not even outcrossing with a breed).

As for "feathernecked cows", I like Gearld Fry's comment that a cow's neck only has to be long enough to get her mouth to the ground!
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Here's what I get for not keeping up with a post. Hadn't noticed this little gem until today RobertMac, sorry. Apparently you were looking for a conversation with this point of view and I had the blabber-mouthed-blinders on. :wink: Anyway, as to your remarks, Jim's point of consistent replication is the one key that reached out of his book and slapped me across the face. I have always had a problem with the "great ones" monger on a seedstock animal, particularily sires. I used it rather recklessly in my previous post.

It's always bothered me that bulls become known as "great ones" due to varying factors, ie. show winnings, progeny sales, inflated prices of progeny and so on. But when you analyze these individuals, there often is no rhyme or reason to there "greatness". They quite often are a surprise to their owners and everyone involved. They just happened to pop up and rise above their contemporaries. In this case, to me, that is not a great bull. The reason, as you stated, consistent replication, or lack thereof. How many bulls in ANY BREED, have been labelled "great one", only to go down in history as a one-shot wonder, because their progeny did not carry their same great characteristics. Thus my intense interest and research into linebred genetics. I believe it will work to reproduce consistency, which to me makes a great sire. As Jim says, have your ideal animal set in your mind as a goal to work towards, execute your breeding plan, then execute(different context :D ) all those which do not represent your ideal animal.

And yes I realise that prepotency doesn't come with heterosis....touche RobertMac. If I could find a buyer for all these crossbred cows right now, I'd let them go and make room for more Herefor....er, I mean Galloways. :wink:
 
Doug Thorson said:

Heterosis comes from 2 dissimilar animals being mated so I would say no. Black hereford, Gelveigh "balancers", Chiangus, etc., value debateable.
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Wouldn't that be true of any of the composits, ie.... brangus, beefmasters
etc... ??
 
Uniformity of profit should be the goal of every commercial cattle producer-raise the black,grey,yellow or rwf cattle that can go out and do that on your ranch-in the good years and the bad. I've seen alot of programs that could be writing books on how to ranch get sidetracted by the latest 'Ranching Formula for Success' tome. Lets face it-anybody who kept the boat afloat the last ten years wasn't doing everything wrong. A registry for black herefords makes as much sense as trying to breed white angus lol.
 
Northern Rancher said:
Uniformity of profit should be the goal of every commercial cattle producer-raise the black,grey,yellow or rwf cattle that can go out and do that on your ranch-in the good years and the bad. I've seen alot of programs that could be writing books on how to ranch get sidetracted by the latest 'Ranching Formula for Success' tome. Lets face it-anybody who kept the boat afloat the last ten years wasn't doing everything wrong. A registry for black herefords makes as much sense as trying to breed white angus lol.
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That is very good statement especially about keeping afloat. :clap:

have a cold one

lazy ace
 
efb said:
Doug Thorson said:

Heterosis comes from 2 dissimilar animals being mated so I would say no. Black hereford, Gelveigh "balancers", Chiangus, etc., value debateable.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Wouldn't that be true of any of the composits, ie.... brangus, beefmasters
etc... ??
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There is a big difference between Beefmasters and Lasater Beefmasters...the difference is what slapped Pure "across the face".

I have a very good friend just back from Iraq, so too many 'cold ones' and tequila shots to get into that deeper...sssooooo y'all have a very good New Year and bring it in right...I sure am!!!! :drink: :shock: :D :D
HAPPY NEW YEAR, Y'ALL!!!!!
 
have a very good friend just back from Iraq, so too many 'cold ones' and tequila shots to get into that deeper...sssooooo y'all have a very good New Year and bring it in right...I sure am!!!!
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Tell them thank you and have a great night!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
RobertMac said:
efb said:

Wouldn't that be true of any of the composits, ie.... brangus, beefmasters
etc... ??
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There is a big difference between Beefmasters and Lasater Beefmasters...the difference is what slapped Pure "across the face".

I have a very good friend just back from Iraq, so too many 'cold ones' and tequila shots to get into that deeper...sssooooo y'all have a very good New Year and bring it in right...I sure am!!!! :drink: :shock: :D :D
HAPPY NEW YEAR, Y'ALL!!!!!
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Hey RMac. Thank your friend from all of us.
 
Gentlemen, message delivered. Thanks!!!

Heterosis is not a free ride...the same thing that gives you larger weaning weights, gives you larger birth weights and more dystocia. Back when I thought it was important to weigh and measure to create a quality herd, I weighed all my calves at birth. After about 4 years, I sat at the computer and divided my herd by purebreds and crossbreds. Each year there was a difference of between 5-10 pounds in birth weights. My 'purebreds' were BBU beefmasters(which many don't consider a pure breed) and the rest were Brahman influence crossbreds with only a few F1s. Birth weights varied from 50+ to over 100 pounds in the same year from the same bull. Heterosis equals heterozygous genetics!

Now the difference Lasater Beefmaster genetics made...
First of all, Lasater Beefmasters have been a closed, linebred herd for about 70 years(to me, that makes them much more a 'pure' genetic base than most 'straight bred' purebreeds). The herd is somewhat unique in that for all those years, they were range raised, multi-sire range bred, and calved, unassisted, on the range. Genetic calving problems were virtually eliminated. The effect of Lasater genetics on my herd is that my birth weights range from mid-60 to mid-80 pounds. All heifers are in the lower end and the majority of larger calves are from the few crossbreds I have left. In the past 4 years, I have assisted one heifer and have lost less than a half dozen calves(almost all from heifers).

My point being that consistency is what you gain from linebreeding and using linebred bulls.
 
Robert Mac if you honestly think that crossbreeding is only good for increased weaning weight you need to find some more books to read. A well run crossbreeding program can achieve results similar to what you are talking. Straightbred commercial herds are nice for calendars and magazine covers but this cowboy just ain't smart enough to give up heterosis for Lent. My apologies to all good catholics fotr that outrageous pun.
 
Northern Rancher said:
Robert Mac if you honestly think that crossbreeding is only good for increased weaning weight you need to find some more books to read. A well run crossbreeding program can achieve results similar to what you are talking. Straightbred commercial herds are nice for calendars and magazine covers but this cowboy just ain't smart enough to give up heterosis for Lent. My apologies to all good catholics fotr that outrageous pun.
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Northern, look at the breed I use, that should tell you more about what I think of the value of crossbreeding!
 

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