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Brain sample still "lying around" says Mt. news co

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Border rancher

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The way I see it today…

Hello again, I have just listened to some farm reports from Montana. I ALMOST couldn't believe what I was hearing. The commentator said that the sample of brain from the "maybe BSE" is still "lying around" somewhere in the USA.

I think you (in the USA) must have been caught with your first real case of the disease. I will wait daily, probably to hear that somehow the sample has disappeared once again. I hope your citizens who were so sceptical about the disappearance of a sample once before haven’t forgotten about that one!

Maybe this one will just be kept at room temperature or warmer until the little piece of tissue is no longer of any use to the lab in England!

I bet many of your cattle producers and organizations were getting pretty worried! Those “canuckleheads”,( an often used quote by a frequent contributor to these forums), were about to become self sufficient, opening more packing plants etc., maybe testing everything to get “your” export markets. You needed to pull out another of the many frozen BSE specimens, you know, one of the ones imported from Canada, but gosh, none left! Then some higher up government official stepped in and insisted on testing one from the US that was hidden away months ago! How very rude of him!

Now, if by some miscalculated miracle, the sample is tested and found positive, your producers, (unless consumers and importers are just plain tired of the whole stupid game), will go down, no more Christmas every day for you guys! The worst part for cattlemen here in Canada is that, although many of you would not admit to a North American cattle herd, the rest of the world did recognize that fact. SO, NOW YOU GET TO TAKE US DOWN WITH YOU and we have been down as much as we can handle for the past 2 years!

I don’t expect any response to this, most of my posts don’t get one. However it made me feel better and even you guys down south can’t take that away from me!
 

don

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apparently the americans and british are negotiating testing procedures which i guess means the americans are trying to predetermine the result. usda is appearing more inept with every move they make regarding bse. is it any wonder so many borders stay closed? looking at the whole situation now it is becoming more obvious that the mistakes of so many other nations are being repeated: coverup, deception and stupidity. it becomes more obvious that usda has tested all those 375,000 animals in an effort to not find bse. the fact is that other countries are aware of this and the distrust is well founded.
 

Maple Leaf Angus

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Hang on there Border Rancher. We're not gonna be taken down with anybody. I think the beef consumer world knows what is going on with testing, transparency and trust.

You think so too, maybe?
 

don

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usda is between a rock and a hard place. if they don't get credible they can't export; if they do find bse in a stupid way like this retest, it makes a sham out of all the tests they have done so far. maybe those usda veterinarians weren't just cranks after all.
 

Mike

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Both you guys have good reason to vent. But nothing will be solved by downgrading each other's (U.S. & Canada) current situation or past practices by our leaders who put us here.
What baffles me is the mistakes made in England, Japan, France and other countries were right out there in public for all to see and learn from.
Coverups, hiding, and denying have gotten neither of us anywhere and will only add to the problem.

When Claude Lavigne (of CFIA) stated in 2001, "We are completely free of BSE. The risk of transmission in a country where the disease doesn't exist is zero. And that's our situation.", he proved without a doubt that our leaders have no long term vision, period. All they (USDA & CFIA) look at is now. Which is not good for us or the cattlemen of the future.

We need to get outraged at our governments, not each other.
 

Border rancher

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Of course I agree with you, I was just telling those in the US who are so against Canadian cattle and all that is related what they are hoping will happen if they "go down"

Canada is so far ahead of the US on the whole BSE issue with traceback (not perfect yet but still way ahead of them), with BSE testing and most of all with plain old honesty, that they shouldn't have a chance!

But we all know, unless we are really stupid, that consumers (if they even care) can be fickle and beef importing countries have other agendas. I can easily see that we in Canada cannot sell as many Japanese cars, electronics etc. (a friend pointed this out to me) as can the USA so I guess that makes them ahead of us there!

Personally,I just hope that somehow we will get decent prices for what we produce before we are too old to enjoy those prices. I know that, because of our age, we will never recover financially to "before BSE", but a few good years would sure be nice!
 

Border rancher

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My last post should have been directed to Maple Leaf Angus. I am not used to getting replies to my posts so I guess I haven't learned hoe to reply to a reply.

Interesting how, after Canadian cattle producers have been blamed for everything concerning BSE for so long, now we should just blame our governments!
 

Maple Leaf Angus

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Mike, I don't think I was downgrading anyone. I was simply saying it as I see it. I believe that I am not alone in how I perceive the situation.

Is it my imagination, or has there been a distinct change (since last Friday) in the attitude of some, particularly the "hard-core" r-calfers, American contributors on this board?

I know that there have been a number of Americans who have been very balanced and decent in their shared opinions; I'm not bashing them.

Border Rancher, maybe I'm just having a bad day, but it's got to the point where I'm starting not to care any more about this business. I hope things get back to a profitable level again so cattle farmers and ranchers can make a living again. But my cattle are for sale and I want out.
 

Jason

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Maple Leaf, wanting out is not all bad. I actually think this makes ranchers here a bit better. We are making business descisions instead of justifying a lifestyle.

Japan has assumed the US has had BSE all along with the amount of cattle that we have traded over the years. Any reasonable person knew this was true. The current re-test only shows why the US hadn't found them sooner. The tests were different. Actually it is a good thing. It shows we have mostly this newly named atypical BSE. It is advancing the science, and people are starting to realize the BSE "crisis" has been overblown. After all, with all due respect to those who have lost loved ones, only 170 people have died from vCJD worlwide.

This has been an economic issue all along. Sandhusker has asked why the rules changed when Canada and the US by implication discovered BSE, and the reason is we haven't seen the hundreds of cases Britian saw. We have firewalls in place and immediately introduced more. And the beef business is more agressive in Canada and the US than it is in Europe, because for one reason Europe has a different market and huge subsidies.

Japan has had a hard time supporting its small beef industry and saw an opportunity to score some political points with BSE. They also want greater acess to the only economy in the world(the US) that consumes more than they do themselves.

Remember we are dealing with bureocrats and red tape, not evil empires. Mistakes are made and then fixed if possible when and if found. Most of the pencil pushers in CFIA USDA etc are not tied to cattle and get paid whatever happens. We take it personally when it affects us.
 

Mike

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Maple Leaf Angus:"Is it my imagination, or has there been a distinct change (since last Friday) in the attitude of some, particularly the "hard-core" r-calfers, American contributors on this board?"

Quite the contrary MLA. The distinct change has been the ones that have been unwilling to admit the USDA is capable and/or culpable of mistakes. They have not only changed but suspiciously absent of comment about the huge inconsistencies in testing that have surfaced recently. They have been quick to point out R-Calf and the so-called lies but fail to address the USDA and the obvious "cheating".

"Tunnel Vision" is the first word that comes to mind, "Predictable" is another.
 

Sandhusker

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Mike said:
Maple Leaf Angus:"Is it my imagination, or has there been a distinct change (since last Friday) in the attitude of some, particularly the "hard-core" r-calfers, American contributors on this board?"

Quite the contrary MLA. The distinct change has been the ones that have been unwilling to admit the USDA is capable and/or culpable of mistakes. They have not only changed but suspiciously absent of comment about the huge inconsistencies in testing that have surfaced recently. They have been quick to point out R-Calf and the so-called lies but fail to address the USDA and the obvious "cheating".

"Tunnel Vision" is the first word that comes to mind, "Predictable" is another.

You're exactly right on the "suspiciously absent" part, Mike. There used to be a handful who defended the USDA regardless - haven't heard from any of them lately. :wink:

As far as R-CALF goes, this whole deal is only showing that they have the USDA pegged right.
 

SASH

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If I was a conspiracy theorist, I would say that this whole thing has been planned right from the get-go. The price of beef is getting so high in the states that people are switching to pork and chicken. Beef processing plants in the US are closing, and production is shifting north to Canada. Up until March 2nd, the border was going to open and the packers would be on the road to recovery, but now because of one misinformed Montana judge, that's not working and the big money in the beef industry is suffering. Japan, with full testing is finding a proportionally large number of BSE infected cattle and is becoming more suspicious of US testing with every one they find. So they say 'What should we do about this problem?'. 'Well, we should find a cow in the US that has BSE and make sure that it is a domestic cow.' This will result in a decrease in demand and therefore prices for finished beef allowing the packers to compete better with pork and chicken and eliminate the protests of that Montana judge about the US being BSE free. Also, by re-testing a cow that the public already knows about, it still keeps the incidence low which will help keep the Japanese happy while allaying their suspicions that the US is not catching everything. If you don't think big business thinks that far ahead, then you haven't spent much time dealing with big business.
 

Mike

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Right now, Sash, the only conspiracy I'm ruling out is the one about the USDA being well intentioned and well informed on matters concerning BSE, and consumer confidence worldwide.
Of course no one will take the heat for this dilemma now because Ann is gone.
 

Maple Leaf Angus

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Sandhusker said:
As far as R-CALF goes, this whole deal is only showing that they have the USDA pegged right.

. . . and supposing they could actually claim that to their credit, would that justify the damage they have wreaked on the cattle producers of this country?

Yeah, they look so good. About as good as jacko after his aquittal.
 

Murgen

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Japan has assumed the US has had BSE all along with the amount of cattle that we have traded over the years.

Jason, this might be hair splitting, but Japan has assumed the US has had BSE all along, because they have had the same risk factors. (imported MBM, imported European Cattle, etc.)

And for prevalence of BSE, I believe Japan now has the excuse they have been waiting for to start importing Canadian product. Knowing what we know now, can it be assumed that the US has tested any animals properly.

And I wonder why Cargill bought that plant in Guelph, that has offices in Japan also. Was it just for the kill capacity, or did they know something like this was coming and thought that Canada might be the first to Export again?



When Claude Lavigne (of CFIA) stated in 2001, "We are completely free of BSE. The risk of transmission in a country where the disease doesn't exist is zero. And that's our situation.", he proved without a doubt that our leaders have no long term vision, period. All they (USDA & CFIA) look at is now. Which is not good for us or the cattlemen of the future

And for this statement, it was accurate at the time. Then in 2003, the rest of the world saw that North America did not take action soon enough (1997) That is what changed, and I think Canada was forthcoming with their testing and information on infected animals. I believe this will only help Canada in the end.
 

Mike

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Murgen:"And for this statement, it was accurate at the time."

Did you forget about the 1993 cow Murgen? That statement is about the equivalent of "Bill Clinton's" "I did not have sexual relations with that woman".

The May 2003 cow was sitting back generating prions the whole time Lavigne was talking.

Not picking on you but just pointing out that our leaders have not been smart enough to see what might happen down the road. They are worrying about exports, etc. TODAY only. Canada HAS been good about cover-ups though. I commend you for that.
 

Sandhusker

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Maple Leaf Angus said:
Sandhusker said:
As far as R-CALF goes, this whole deal is only showing that they have the USDA pegged right.

. . . and supposing they could actually claim that to their credit, would that justify the damage they have wreaked on the cattle producers of this country?

Yeah, they look so good. About as good as jacko after his aquittal.

You can blame R-CALF if it makes you feel better but the fact remains it was the USDA who closed the border and a judge who kept it closed. If the USDA has their ducks in a row as is their job, the border might of been open long ago.

I'd also like to point out that R-CALF didn't set cattle prices up there, didn't get any handouts, and wasn't in contempt of parliament.

While I'm at it, R-CALF isn't the outfit prohibiting you guys from going after our former markets with tested beef.

But, it's all R-CALF's fault............. :roll:
 

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