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Brain sample still "lying around" says Mt. news co

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Mike

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Murgen:"Jason, this might be hair splitting, but Japan has assumed the US has had BSE all along,"

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Read this Murgen if you believe that! It's a Canadian publication too!

http://www.producer.com/free/editorial/bse/20030625bse.html

He states:"However, Japan has warned the U.S. that after July 1, American beef will not be accepted into the Japanese market unless it can be guaranteed BSE free and not Canadian."

The Japanese believes everybody has it.
 

Kathy

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The brain samples can rot until there is nothing but liquid left, and a western blot test could still find malformed proteins related to the PRION.

The PrPsc is protease K resistant, remember. The undigestible core will not be affected by rotting and degrading.

No one is talking about back testing (with Western Blot) the thousands of other USA animals tested in the past, did they keep representative samples, or, did they only keep samples from those that showed a preliminary "false" positive?


As far as understanding the science goes, if you leave it up to others to form your opinions for you, you'll never dig yourself out of the hole.
 

Jason

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Murgen And for prevalence of BSE said:
Murgen for quite some time, even before the Guelph plant was sold, Japan has been in high level talks with Canada. Japan is happy with our traceback although officially they have said they need more to assure their 20 month threshold that they have already publicly agreed to, but it is really just a matter of semantics.

Japan will import from Canada this year I believe. The reason I say that is more to do with information I find out behind the scenes.

The Phillipines agreed to Canadain beef because of a friend of mine that has a Phillipino worker on staff and they went to visit some officils this fellow knew. It was a gentleman's agreement basically done outside of "official" government channels. The culture is different and having a Phillipino guide my friend through the differences, made the border opening a snap.

The Japanese influence in Canada will likely be the same. When the right connected rancher gets ahold of the right Japanese official and they talk face to face, the border will open.

The official news release is that the country considered our saftey records and the border was opened, but it took a catalyst to get it done. These other countries around the world are not watching this thing as closely as we are because they are not always directly affected, at least to the extent we are.

The big packers are focused on business and don't have the time or desire to play politics until their current deals are threatened. If they were to lose access to the US market for boxed beef you can bet they would be focused on getting it back or a replacement for it. If they would have to take a cut in price to open a new market, they wouldn't do it unless they had the extra capacity to service it. The Guelph plant might be the extra capacity, or just might be the catalyst for Japan. If we don't know the people involved we might never know the real story.
 

Bill

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Sandhusker said:
Maple Leaf Angus said:
Sandhusker said:
As far as R-CALF goes, this whole deal is only showing that they have the USDA pegged right.

. . . and supposing they could actually claim that to their credit, would that justify the damage they have wreaked on the cattle producers of this country?

Yeah, they look so good. About as good as jacko after his aquittal.

You can blame R-CALF if it makes you feel better but the fact remains it was the USDA who closed the border and a judge who kept it closed. If the USDA has their ducks in a row as is their job, the border might of been open long ago.

I'd also like to point out that R-CALF didn't set cattle prices up there, didn't get any handouts, and wasn't in contempt of parliament.

While I'm at it, R-CALF isn't the outfit prohibiting you guys from going after our former markets with tested beef.

But, it's all R-CALF's fault............. :roll:
Gee you make it almost sound like R-Calf wants the border open. How could we be so mistaken.
 
A

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Mike said:
Right now, Sash, the only conspiracy I'm ruling out is the one about the USDA being well intentioned and well informed on matters concerning BSE, and consumer confidence worldwide.
Of course no one will take the heat for this dilemma now because Ann is gone.

Mike- right now in this community Johanns is picking up a lot of heat-- and the black helicopters are getting thick enough we may need an air traffic controller :lol:

I stopped in town yesterday- Majority of the talk at the coffeeshop, feedstore, VFW, and waterhole was this situation-- And Johanns comments the day before that cattle prices were too high and needed to be lowered are the take off pad for the copters....Ms. Ann may have caused the problem- but Johanns is catching the heat.....

Even some staunch old Republicans are thinking he'll ride this announcement until prices and futures quit dropping- then he'll finally have it retested and announce it is really positive so he can get the prices to take another tumble...No more problem with too high of cattle prices- maintain cheap food supply for the masses...

No-one can tell me that an organization like USDA has to negotiate with the UK and figure out how to retest this- and that it will take weeks to do it.... they should have a set up protocol with outside labs for retesting... If not they better get someone in their that can run the outfit....
 

don

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seems like the r-calfers in particular don't want to consider johanns' comments on beef prices in the context of competition for consumer dollars with other meats. like every other situation they take a little chunk of what was said and turn it to their purpose so that they can paint the secretary as a traitor to cattlemen. the consumer will tell you when beef prices are too high and by some indications they think beef prices are already there. then you can whine about that.
 

Border rancher

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I know I make you all very angry when I point out how the "R Calf terrorists" might be working. Things could be working just the way they want. If their agenda really is to destroy the beef industry, and later the whole food industry and supply in North America, this new BSE development would make them very happy! Less work for them, just have too keep on telling consumers everywhere that BEEF IS NOT SAFE!

Do you ever wonder what segment of the food industry these terrorists may attack next, maybe grains or chickens or fruits?

As I have said in previous posts, I don't want this to be the case, but think about it. No bombs, no wars, just North America brought to it's knees.All they had to use was a little propaganda.

(As I also have said before, all R Calf members are NOT terrorists, but a few well chosen leaders might be.)
 

Sandhusker

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Border rancher said:
I know I make you all very angry when I point out how the "R Calf terrorists" might be working. Things could be working just the way they want. If their agenda really is to destroy the beef industry, and later the whole food industry and supply in North America, this new BSE development would make them very happy! Less work for them, just have too keep on telling consumers everywhere that BEEF IS NOT SAFE!

Do you ever wonder what segment of the food industry these terrorists may attack next, maybe grains or chickens or fruits?

As I have said in previous posts, I don't want this to be the case, but think about it. No bombs, no wars, just North America brought to it's knees.All they had to use was a little propaganda.


(As I also have said before, all R Calf members are NOT terrorists, but a few well chosen leaders might be.)

BR, you need to quit smoking that "tobacco" that comes out of BC! :lol: I'd also recommend you not eat those little mushrooms that grow in the cow pies! :lol:
 

Border rancher

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Back a ways to Mike.

I think we all remember the 2003 cow in Canada. Owned by a gentleman originally from Louisiana, I believe. No one really sure where she came from. One story around here was that a Canadian cattle dealer smuggled in some US cows with a load of other stock and that cow was one of them!
Smelled really kind of fishy. didn't it?
 

rkaiser

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:)This thread has a little of everything on it. New trend or what?

Jason and Murgen have been touching on the Cargil purchase of Better Beef in Guelph. Do you guys realise that the deal is not final and the competition bureau has meetings planned for next week. Guess what, one grassroots producer group has been invited to give their view on the situation which would see Cargil take another big chunk of the Canadian slaughter capacity pie.

I can only imagine Jasons response to the fact that BIG C will be standing against another monopolistic move by the Multinationals in Canada.
 

Mike

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Border rancher said:
Back a ways to Mike.

I think we all remember the 2003 cow in Canada. Owned by a gentleman originally from Louisiana, I believe. No one really sure where she came from. One story around here was that a Canadian cattle dealer smuggled in some US cows with a load of other stock and that cow was one of them!
Smelled really kind of fishy. didn't it?

My post asked if he had forgotten the 1993 cow. The one that came from England and may have been the one to upset the whole apple cart.
 

Sandhusker

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rkaiser said:
:)This thread has a little of everything on it. New trend or what?

Jason and Murgen have been touching on the Cargil purchase of Better Beef in Guelph. Do you guys realise that the deal is not final and the competition bureau has meetings planned for next week. Guess what, one grassroots producer group has been invited to give their view on the situation which would see Cargil take another big chunk of the Canadian slaughter capacity pie.

I can only imagine Jasons response to the fact that BIG C will be standing against another monopolistic move by the Multinationals in Canada.

Sounds to me like BIG C is a protectionist outfit. :wink: :lol:
 

rkaiser

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Oh by the way Border Rancher, I do read most of what you say and feel you have as firm a grasp on the issues as any other person on this site.

Reader can talk about her lack of support for conspiracies while she follows unproven theory. (Sounds a bit strange to me!!)

Sandhusker can defend the actions of Rcalf till the cows come home. (What the heck is that all about)

And good old Randy can be depended on to challenge the Packer raping of Canadian producers, and the idea that BSE is even a problem in the first place.

It's all about opinion, and I wouldn't keep coming back to ranchers if I didn't like the fact that everyone here has an opinion.

Thanks for you input Border Rancher, if you ever want to have a chat or send me a note, my name is Randy Kaiser. I live at Crossfield AB, and my phone # is (403) 946 - 0228.
 

rkaiser

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:) You little sneaky Sandman, you got one in on me while I was typing with my one clean finger.

Protectionist for standing up to monopolistic activity???? Give me a break. BIG C wants competition, and would prefer it to be Canadian, but have also been working with Asian, and European folks to spread this industry out.

Sometimes I wonder what Rcalf's agenda really is! Are you happy with the fact that your actions have taken out Cargil and Tyson's competition in your own part of the USA?
 

Murgen

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My post asked if he had forgotten the 1993 cow. The one that came from England and may have been the one to upset the whole apple cart.

I didn't forget about this one Mike, and you're right, at that time I guess Canada did use the excuse "it's not domestic", but also remember that nether Canada or the US had the feedbans etc. in place at that time.
 

Mike

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Murgen said:
My post asked if he had forgotten the 1993 cow. The one that came from England and may have been the one to upset the whole apple cart.

I didn't forget about this one Mike, and you're right, at that time I guess Canada did use the excuse "it's not domestic", but also remember that nether Canada or the US had the feedbans etc. in place at that time.

Right, about the excuse, "it's not domestic". Well, ten years later in the State of Washington, what did we hear? "It's not domestic".

The same mistakes have been repeated all over the world. :mad: :mad:
 

Murgen

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The same mistakes have been repeated all over the world

Your right Mike, the same mistakes have been made. I guess what ticks off most Canadians is that in the US, you have group that has now set up both our countries for a huge fallout.

If the border had opened and North America had said to the world, "look there will be cases, but the safeguards and testing are in place", this last cow would not have had the impact it will have, if it comes back positive.

And Sandhusker, to say Rcalf did not extend the border closure is an outright lie, and it lowers you're cedibility even to say it.
 

Sandhusker

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rkaiser said:
:) You little sneaky Sandman, you got one in on me while I was typing with my one clean finger.

Protectionist for standing up to monopolistic activity???? Give me a break. BIG C wants competition, and would prefer it to be Canadian, but have also been working with Asian, and European folks to spread this industry out.

Sometimes I wonder what Rcalf's agenda really is! Are you happy with the fact that your actions have taken out Cargil and Tyson's competition in your own part of the USA?

:lol: :lol: Hey, I'm all for you and hope you get something done. If I lived in Canada, I'd be a member of BIG C. A person has to look out for themselves. I've just noticed that when R-CALF tries to influence matters that affect US producers they're labeled "protectionist", but that label isn't applied evenly to others doing the same.

No, I'm not happy about Tyson and Cargil getting rooted deeper. But blaming R-CALF for it? That's just like Billy telling the teacher the bully is cheating in the game and the teacher makes everybody sit down - and then the kids blame Billy!
 

Sandhusker

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Murgen, "And Sandhusker, to say Rcalf did not extend the border closure is an outright lie, and it lowers you're cedibility even to say it."

R-CALF certainly asked for the border to remain closed - but they don't have the power to close or open. If R-CALF didn't have a case, the border would of opened last March.
 

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