Bred cow sale.

[Silver]

No real problem OT. Still another thousand miles, give or take, to my cows. I'll be selling beef to someone while you're feeding your cows and looking at em. :lol:

That's again where you and I differ- as I would never wish that upon any cattle producer...

But stepping all over them by taking advantage of a bunch of smoke and mirror legal loopholes thereby starving them out is okay, right?

 

[bearvalley]

Didn't say I wished it on anyone OT. Kind of funny thogh that when the hint of a possible problem slides into your lap you sure duck out.
Must be you have Selective Gloating Syndrome.
Do you need labelled? :wink:

 

[gcreekrch]

No real problem OT. Still another thousand miles, give or take, to my cows. I'll be selling beef to someone while you're feeding your cows and looking at em. :lol:

That's again where you and I differ- as I would never wish that upon any cattle producer...

But stepping all over them by taking advantage of a bunch of smoke and mirror legal loopholes thereby starving them out is okay, right?

Now don't put any more BS words in OT's mouth.


It's already overfull. :lol:

 

[gcreekrch]

FWIW, I do like the cattle that OT raises. However, I also put a lot of weight on who I will do business with and the buck would stop there. :wink:

 

[loomixguy]

Didn't say I wished it on anyone OT. Kind of funny thogh that when the hint of a possible problem slides into your lap you sure duck out.
Must be you have Selective Gloating Syndrome.
You need neutered. :wink:

FIXED!

 

[mytwocents]

NOBODY here has done more bullying than OT.

Stick around for even a short time and it becomes crystal clear he talks out of both sides of his withered hind end....just like his hero, Zero.

Right now the Canadians are in his rifle sights. Makes me wonder just how much Canadian whiskey he has partaken of in his life.....kinda hypocritical if you ask me.

As far as easily traceable paperwork on livestock, the papers are no more honest than the man who owns the stock. You don't buy the story, you buy the merchandise.

Does oldtimer bully alone or does the little mob join in with him? From what I've seen he fights his battles alone. Big difference.

How do you figure the Canadians are in his rifle sites? Because he defends himself against them? It appears to me that any U.S. rancher on here that does not kiss the Canadians axx is in the Canadians' rifle sights. As a U.S. rancher I'm damn tired of getting blamed by Canadians for crap that I had nothing to do with. I'm sure the Canadians must love these pathetic apologetic U.S. ranchers on this sight that show their phony and useless sympathy for Canada - who all too eagerly put down their own country to stick up for another. Yes, Canada is our closest ally, but when it comes to my own country I stick with my own. I don't have any respect for anyone on here that does otherwise. There's a word for that. It's called a traitor.

There's corruption in government and leadership in both countries, policies we don't agree with, etc. but most of us ranchers don't condone it or have any part to play in that, or enough clout to change the things that need to be changed. We're simply trying to make an honest living the best we can raising cattle. So when people like Kato keep on with the blame game and the "Thanks a lot" crap - it tends to get under my skin.

 

[Silver]

FWIW, I do like the cattle that OT raises. However, I also put a lot of weight on who I will do business with and the buck would stop there. :wink:

Yes, I have to agree with you there. And it appears as though he raises fine horses as well.

 

[Silver]

NOBODY here has done more bullying than OT.

Stick around for even a short time and it becomes crystal clear he talks out of both sides of his withered hind end....just like his hero, Zero.

Right now the Canadians are in his rifle sights. Makes me wonder just how much Canadian whiskey he has partaken of in his life.....kinda hypocritical if you ask me.

As far as easily traceable paperwork on livestock, the papers are no more honest than the man who owns the stock. You don't buy the story, you buy the merchandise.

Does oldtimer bully alone or does the little mob join in with him? From what I've seen he fights his battles alone. Big difference.

How do you figure the Canadians are in his rifle sites? Because he defends himself against them? It appears to me that any U.S. rancher on here that does not kiss the Canadians axx is in the Canadians' rifle sights. As a U.S. rancher I'm damn tired of getting blamed by Canadians for crap that I had nothing to do with. I'm sure the Canadians must love these pathetic apologetic U.S. ranchers on this sight that show their phony and useless sympathy for Canada - who all too eagerly put down their own country to stick up for another. Yes, Canada is our closest ally, but when it comes to my own country I stick with my own. I don't have any respect for anyone on here that does otherwise. There's a word for that. It's called a traitor.

There's corruption in government and leadership in both countries, policies we don't agree with, etc. but most of us ranchers don't condone it or have any part to play in that, or enough clout to change the things that need to be changed. We're simply trying to make an honest living the best we can raising cattle. So when people like Kato keep on with the blame game and the "Thanks a lot" crap - it tends to get under my skin.

Well the way I see it is if you are or were a card carrying Rcalf member you were actively attacking the livelihood of myself, my family, my neighbours and my countrymen. That is something I can't and won't get past any time soon.

 

[Anonymous]

No real problem OT. Still another thousand miles, give or take, to my cows. I'll be selling beef to someone while you're feeding your cows and looking at em. :lol:

That's again where you and I differ- as I would never wish that upon any cattle producer...

But stepping all over them by taking advantage of a bunch of smoke and mirror legal loopholes thereby starving them out is okay, right?

You mean when right after the passage of NAFTA Canada declared that "ALL US CATTLE ARE DISEASED" and restricted US cattle from going north and started sending bullhauler after bullhauler south loaded down with "cheap" cattle (your dollar was worth about 50-75 cents) to wreck the US markets???

Did you folks ever think why R-CALF originated mostly in border states like MT, ID, WA, and the Dakotas ? Do you think it was because cattlemen in those states knew Canadians better and knew they were terrible folks, thought them evil , and wanted to do them harm :???: :roll: NO- it was because these border states saw all the one way cattle traffic.... All headed south.... And saw the damage it was doing to US cattle producers and the country as a whole....

I actually saw the perspective from 3 positions- Sheriff's Officer, Brand Inspector, and cattleman.... And like others in the state I saw truckload after truckload of cattle all headed south- and Trans X trucks parked lining the truckstops on their way back and forth hauling swinging Canadian beef south... We'd have to go get the drivers out of the Cafe because they would be interfering with traffic on the 4 Lane...

And I saw neighbors/acquaintances and their families in tears watching these trucks taking their livelihood away as we had to foreclose on them... Ranchers that lost their places partially brought about because of the wrecked prices... And as a brand inspector I saw MT cattle being allowed to be shipped all over the US with just a Vets health inspection, but for 6-7 years after the NAFTA passage I saw/inspected NONE going north (cattle that ran across the fenceline from the Canadian cattle)... I inspected hundreds of potloads of cattle being shipped out of state- but not a one went north from this area until about 2001 or 2002 when Jones, Vold, Jones bought some video auction cattle at a sale in Malta and I inspected about a dozen semi-loads...

And even tho MSU tested hundreds of cattle herds - NONE tested positive for the diseases the Canadians were claiming (Anaplas and Blue Tongue)-- but Canada kept up the ALL US CATTLE ARE DISEASED claim-- and much of the restrictions... Until during the BSE era when Canada had their teat in a wringer and was trying to get the border open to their cows going south- and all of a sudden WALLAH- magically the Canadian government decides your US cows really aren't as diseased as we thought and they finally dropped most of the restrictions, (10-12 years after having the border closed to US cattle :roll: )

Yep Silver- that does remind me of someone taking advantage of a bunch of smoke and mirror legal loopholes and using them to step all over their neighbors !!!!

And Silver-- you surely don't want all these DISEASED US CATTLE being comingled with your Canadian cattle as a North American herd- would you :???:

 

[S.S.A.P.]

FWIW, I do like the cattle that OT raises. However, I also put a lot of weight on who I will do business with and the buck would stop there. :wink:

Same here - just ask my family ! ;-) Since I do all the paperwork, make the sale catalog and take the pictures there will not be an HF prefix 8) Its not the cattle's fault

 

[S.S.A.P.]

wow ~ OT ... just wow. How can you say the border was closed - yet then say you (one lone inspector in the whole United States of America) you yourself inspected cattle heading north? :roll:

 

[Anonymous]

wow ~ OT ... just wow. How can you say the border was closed - yet then say you (one lone inspector in the whole United States of America) you yourself inspected cattle heading north? :roll:

Easy- after several years (and the US Vets showing Canada's rules were uncalled for) Canada eased the restrictions some and did a trial program with some border areas during a few limited months...
But access to Canada was still very restricted...

 

[bearvalley]

Not everyone in the Canadian cattle business is blaming the US for the hand that got delt up here. What happened is done. So maybe it's time to move on. Some members of the American public would be happy if none of our beef was used in their country. Hell, it's just filler. A cut above dog food.
Maybe the simple solution would be to just close the door. Both ways. The Canadian herd is about cut down to where we can peddle it in other directions than south. No export. No import. If the US needs more beef, get some more Mexican jerky. Or maybe see what China exports. But one thing I know for damn sure is that any Canadian beef that is born, raised and processed here will hold its own with any other countries.

 

[Silver]

That's again where you and I differ- as I would never wish that upon any cattle producer...

But stepping all over them by taking advantage of a bunch of smoke and mirror legal loopholes thereby starving them out is okay, right?

You mean when right after the passage of NAFTA Canada declared that "ALL US CATTLE ARE DISEASED" and restricted US cattle from going north and started sending bullhauler after bullhauler south loaded down with "cheap" cattle (your dollar was worth about 50 cents) to wreck the US markets???

Did you folks ever think why R-CALF originated mostly in border states like MT, ID, WA, and the Dakotas ? Do you think it was because cattlemen in those states knew Canadians better and knew they were terrible folks, thought them evil , and wanted to do them harm :???: :roll: NO- it was because these border states saw all the one way cattle traffic.... All headed south.... And saw the damage it was doing to US cattle producers and the country as a whole....

I actually saw the perspective from 3 positions- Sheriff's Officer, Brand Inspector, and cattleman.... And like others in the state I saw truckload after truckload of cattle all headed south- and Trans X trucks parked lining the truckstops on their way back and forth hauling swinging Canadian beef south... We'd have to go get the drivers out of the Cafe because they would be interfering with traffic on the 4 Lane...

And I saw neighbors/acquaintances and their families in tears watching these trucks taking their livelihood away as we had to foreclose on them... Ranchers that lost their places partially brought about because of the wrecked prices... And as a brand inspector for 6-7 years after the NAFTA passage I saw MT cattle being allowed to be shipped all over the US with just a Vets health inspection- but I saw/inspected NONE going north (cattle that ran across the fenceline from the Canadian cattle)... I inspected hundreds of potloads of cattle being shipped out of state- but not a one went north from this area until about 2001 or 2002 when Jones, Vold, Jones bought some video auction cattle at a sale in Malta and I inspected about a dozen semi-loads...

And even tho MSU tested hundreds of cattle herds - NONE tested positive for the diseases the Canadians were claiming (Anaplas and Blue Tongue)-- but Canada kept up the ALL US CATTLE ARE DISEASED claim-- and much of the restrictions... Until during the BSE era when Canada had their teat in a wringer and was trying to get the border open to their cows going south- and all of a sudden WALLAH- magically the Canadian government decides your US cows really aren't as diseased as we thought and they finally dropped most of the restrictions, (10-12 years after having the border closed to US cattle :roll: )

Yep Silver- that does remind me of someone taking advantage of a bunch of smoke and mirror legal loopholes and using them to step all over their neighbors !!!!

And Silver-- you surely don't want all these DISEASED US CATTLE being comingled with your Canadian cattle as a North American herd- would you :???:

And you've never taken the time to question your gov't high dollar policy of the time that created these conditions????? Did Canada lower it's dollar to cheat you out of a livelihood?????

You keep spouting about the DISEASED US CATTLE that we wouldn't let in. I've given you plenty of chances to tell the whole truth. Once again you FAILED. They were allowed in during winter months and you know that. I've also stated on here in the past that I and most folks I know never agreed with that. I was taught 2 wrongs never make a right.

Do you believe Canada was sending those cattle down there? You never thought to wonder what the circumstances were that led to AMERICAN's importing all these cattle and thumbing there noses at you on the way by???????????

I was a member of the cattlemen's ash. when we voted down the proposal to shut down the port to US cattle in BC which is the only life line to Hawaiian ranchers. Our feeling was that the American cattleman was not who we were after.

You never mention that it was your governments strong dollar policy combined with NAFTA that destroyed our packing industry and turned us into merely a supplier of "cheap beef" for the giant US conglomerates.

So don't keep dragging up these half truths and fashioning them into a "poor me" story, you see it how you like but I'm not buying your BS. You are a self centered fool and that's not going to change by me pointing it out to you, so I'm done. Have a great night.

 

[S.S.A.P.]

... AMERICAN's importing ...

Two important words! :wink:

A 'nuts n bolts' explanation from Silver!

 

[leanin' H]

Not everyone in the Canadian cattle business is blaming the US for the hand that got delt up here. What happened is done. So maybe it's time to move on. Some members of the American public would be happy if none of our beef was used in their country. Hell, it's just filler. A cut above dog food.
Maybe the simple solution would be to just close the door. Both ways. The Canadian herd is about cut down to where we can peddle it in other directions than south. No export. No import. If the US needs more beef, get some more Mexican jerky. Or maybe see what China exports. But one thing I know for damn sure is that any Canadian beef that is born, raised and processed here will hold its own with any other countries.

And to me(just a small producer without much of a voice) what Bearvalley says is the big issue that rcalf folks choose to ignore. Without equal trade with our northern neighbors, we will get stuck with mexican junk. It wont effect me or my family as we eat our own beef. It will effect me and my family when mexican cattle with issues start showing up. I TRUST CANADIAN PRODUCERS AND BEEF. And i do not trust mexican or chinese producers or the products the export. Too many questions and leaving ourselves open to more fiascos like the rat poison in food from china episode. Canada and America are 2 sovern countrys who need to look out for their own interests. But both countrys have a long and proud history of working together for the benefit of both. Failing to do so will have negative effects that will reach a lot further than a line on a map. Divided we all fall.

 

[Anonymous]

But stepping all over them by taking advantage of a bunch of smoke and mirror legal loopholes thereby starving them out is okay, right?

You mean when right after the passage of NAFTA Canada declared that "ALL US CATTLE ARE DISEASED" and restricted US cattle from going north and started sending bullhauler after bullhauler south loaded down with "cheap" cattle (your dollar was worth about 50 cents) to wreck the US markets???

Did you folks ever think why R-CALF originated mostly in border states like MT, ID, WA, and the Dakotas ? Do you think it was because cattlemen in those states knew Canadians better and knew they were terrible folks, thought them evil , and wanted to do them harm :???: :roll: NO- it was because these border states saw all the one way cattle traffic.... All headed south.... And saw the damage it was doing to US cattle producers and the country as a whole....

I actually saw the perspective from 3 positions- Sheriff's Officer, Brand Inspector, and cattleman.... And like others in the state I saw truckload after truckload of cattle all headed south- and Trans X trucks parked lining the truckstops on their way back and forth hauling swinging Canadian beef south... We'd have to go get the drivers out of the Cafe because they would be interfering with traffic on the 4 Lane...

And I saw neighbors/acquaintances and their families in tears watching these trucks taking their livelihood away as we had to foreclose on them... Ranchers that lost their places partially brought about because of the wrecked prices... And as a brand inspector for 6-7 years after the NAFTA passage I saw MT cattle being allowed to be shipped all over the US with just a Vets health inspection- but I saw/inspected NONE going north (cattle that ran across the fenceline from the Canadian cattle)... I inspected hundreds of potloads of cattle being shipped out of state- but not a one went north from this area until about 2001 or 2002 when Jones, Vold, Jones bought some video auction cattle at a sale in Malta and I inspected about a dozen semi-loads...

And even tho MSU tested hundreds of cattle herds - NONE tested positive for the diseases the Canadians were claiming (Anaplas and Blue Tongue)-- but Canada kept up the ALL US CATTLE ARE DISEASED claim-- and much of the restrictions... Until during the BSE era when Canada had their teat in a wringer and was trying to get the border open to their cows going south- and all of a sudden WALLAH- magically the Canadian government decides your US cows really aren't as diseased as we thought and they finally dropped most of the restrictions, (10-12 years after having the border closed to US cattle :roll: )

Yep Silver- that does remind me of someone taking advantage of a bunch of smoke and mirror legal loopholes and using them to step all over their neighbors !!!!

And Silver-- you surely don't want all these DISEASED US CATTLE being comingled with your Canadian cattle as a North American herd- would you :???:

And you've never taken the time to question your gov't high dollar policy of the time that created these conditions????? Did Canada lower it's dollar to cheat you out of a livelihood?????

You keep spouting about the DISEASED US CATTLE that we wouldn't let in. I've given you plenty of chances to tell the whole truth. Once again you FAILED. They were allowed in during winter months and you know that. I've also stated on here in the past that I and most folks I know never agreed with that. I was taught 2 wrongs never make a right.

Do you believe Canada was sending those cattle down there? You never thought to wonder what the circumstances were that led to AMERICAN's importing all these cattle and thumbing there noses at you on the way by???????????

I was a member of the cattlemen's ash. when we voted down the proposal to shut down the port to US cattle in BC which is the only life line to Hawaiian ranchers. Our feeling was that the American cattleman was not who we were after.

You never mention that it was your governments strong dollar policy combined with NAFTA that destroyed our packing industry and turned us into merely a supplier of "cheap beef" for the giant US conglomerates.

So don't keep dragging up these half truths and fashioning them into a "poor me" story, you see it how you like but I'm not buying your BS. You are a self centered fool and that's not going to change by me pointing it out to you, so I'm done. Have a great night.

Apparently you didn't read my answer to SSAP:

Easy- after several years (and the US Vets showing Canada's rules were uncalled for) Canada eased the restrictions some and did a trial program with some border areas during a few limited months...
But access to Canada was still very restricted...

We could go back further- and bring up the challenge and losing of the CROW rate and the Prairie Provinces subsidizing Canadians switching from grain to grass, hay, and cattle-- which caused the Canadian cattle herd to greatly expand (also negatively affecting beef prices)...
But like you said-- its all because WE ARE NOT THE SAME COUNTRY- and have differing laws and politicians...

And the Canadian governments closure of the border to US cattle after NAFTA took many as a shock- including many NAFTA supporters (of which I was one before I found out how politically influenced NAFTA was)...

While our government was challenged (and still being challenged on NAFTA) but refused to challenge the negative impact Canada's/NAFTA's actions were taking, R- CALF came to be and did challenge it in court... And R-CALF won their illegal dumping challenge- but was unable at that time to show how much economic impact it had made... An impact that wasn't shown until the border was closed to Canadian cattle because of BSE and US cattlemen saw record prices they had never dreamt of....

I agree- its all water under the bridge and we're not going to change things... Hopefully we'll learn from it- but as I watch history repeat itself generation after generation, I doubt it... Altho- even in Montana here, I've seen moves (like changes to the Canadian bangs import rules) that I didn't think I would see...

But like I and others said before-- I get bent out of shape when some of the Canadians want to blame all their present day problems on the US, or US cattlemen.... We felt many of the Canadian governments actions were cheap shots- but we got past them... And Canadians crawling in bed with the Mexicans to challenge the sovereignty of the US Congress passed law at a time when our country has such a fear of world groups/foreign groups usurping that sovereignty is not setting too well with many.....

So now since almost every country in the world has COOL rules labeling our meat products - and the consumers have asked for them- and convinced Congress and the President (s) (past and current), who have authorized it -- I think we should move ahead with them...
And I agree with those in the other thread- that I think Canada could hold their own with no problem by having identical rules- and identifying and promoting their product ...
I wouldn't have said that 5-10 years ago (BSE days) but consumers have rather short memories- and are more concerned with so much foodstuffs now coming in from 3rd world countries like Mexico.....

 

[mytwocents]

NOBODY here has done more bullying than OT.

Stick around for even a short time and it becomes crystal clear he talks out of both sides of his withered hind end....just like his hero, Zero.

Right now the Canadians are in his rifle sights. Makes me wonder just how much Canadian whiskey he has partaken of in his life.....kinda hypocritical if you ask me.

As far as easily traceable paperwork on livestock, the papers are no more honest than the man who owns the stock. You don't buy the story, you buy the merchandise.

Does oldtimer bully alone or does the little mob join in with him? From what I've seen he fights his battles alone. Big difference.

How do you figure the Canadians are in his rifle sites? Because he defends himself against them? It appears to me that any U.S. rancher on here that does not kiss the Canadians axx is in the Canadians' rifle sights. As a U.S. rancher I'm damn tired of getting blamed by Canadians for crap that I had nothing to do with. I'm sure the Canadians must love these pathetic apologetic U.S. ranchers on this sight that show their phony and useless sympathy for Canada - who all too eagerly put down their own country to stick up for another. Yes, Canada is our closest ally, but when it comes to my own country I stick with my own. I don't have any respect for anyone on here that does otherwise. There's a word for that. It's called a traitor.

There's corruption in government and leadership in both countries, policies we don't agree with, etc. but most of us ranchers don't condone it or have any part to play in that, or enough clout to change the things that need to be changed. We're simply trying to make an honest living the best we can raising cattle. So when people like Kato keep on with the blame game and the "Thanks a lot" crap - it tends to get under my skin.

Well the way I see it is if you are or were a card carrying Rcalf member you were actively attacking the livelihood of myself, my family, my neighbours and my countrymen. That is something I can't and won't get past any time soon.

I think you need to check back into your history further, back when potload after potload of Canadian cattle were flooding our markets and lowering our prices. Many ranchers in the US lost their livelihoods due to the Canadians dumping their cattle on us. So if any of your cattle came into the US at that time then you too were actively attacking the livelihood of myself, my family, my neighbors and my countrymen.

You see, it can be a never-ending blame game with legitimate points being made by both sides. I think a group of ranchers from both sides could sit down and figure out better trade policies regarding cattle then what our crooked Government/politicians have done.

 

[Silver]

Does oldtimer bully alone or does the little mob join in with him? From what I've seen he fights his battles alone. Big difference.

How do you figure the Canadians are in his rifle sites? Because he defends himself against them? It appears to me that any U.S. rancher on here that does not kiss the Canadians axx is in the Canadians' rifle sights. As a U.S. rancher I'm damn tired of getting blamed by Canadians for crap that I had nothing to do with. I'm sure the Canadians must love these pathetic apologetic U.S. ranchers on this sight that show their phony and useless sympathy for Canada - who all too eagerly put down their own country to stick up for another. Yes, Canada is our closest ally, but when it comes to my own country I stick with my own. I don't have any respect for anyone on here that does otherwise. There's a word for that. It's called a traitor.

There's corruption in government and leadership in both countries, policies we don't agree with, etc. but most of us ranchers don't condone it or have any part to play in that, or enough clout to change the things that need to be changed. We're simply trying to make an honest living the best we can raising cattle. So when people like Kato keep on with the blame game and the "Thanks a lot" crap - it tends to get under my skin.

Well the way I see it is if you are or were a card carrying Rcalf member you were actively attacking the livelihood of myself, my family, my neighbours and my countrymen. That is something I can't and won't get past any time soon.

I think you need to check back into your history further, back when potload after potload of Canadian cattle were flooding our markets and lowering our prices. Many ranchers in the US lost their livelihoods due to the Canadians dumping their cattle on us. So if any of your cattle came into the US at that time then you too were actively attacking the livelihood of myself, my family, my neighbors and my countrymen.

You see, it can be a never-ending blame game with legitimate points being made by both sides. I think a group of ranchers from both sides could sit down and figure out better trade policies regarding cattle then what our crooked Government/politicians have done.

I think I covered your little "Evil Canadians flooding our market" deal already. I might add we weren't getting rich either.

 

[C Thompson]

Just checking in to see how you all are getting along. Pleased to see all the love and good cheer that this festive season brings out in neighbors and friends. I think I'll check out a few of the more positive posts.