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BSE CASE CONFIRMED IN ALBERTA

Question wrote:

Maybe familirise yourself with the OIE. The primary concern is animal health of the world they are the animal version of the WHO. It is a long way down from that ivory tower but here we go, until pressured by the USA repesentatives a country could not export animals for 6 years after finding a BSE/BASE positive animal so under the old rules the US would not be able to export anywhere in the world for another 4 1/2 years. Who got the risk levels system put in to allow some trade - your US representatives. You guys want to change rules - OK , but you do not get special rules that only apply to the US.
As i have told you before Sand h I market all my own slaughter animals and you know that, so don't do the whole holier than thow act.

With all due respect, it is obvious that you know little about the OIE and how it actually works. Having been to their offices in Paris and talked personally with the Head of the Animal Test Section, you would choke if you knew how many lobby groups attend that office daily. There is a steady stream of paid lobby groups that have one goal in life and that is to sway the Section Heads of each department within the OIE to suit the needs of different juristictions around the world, which curiously enough, also includes the USA and Canada. Anyone can go there and chat with them - providing they can privide valid cause to be let in. To say that the only goal of the OIE is animal health is actually only part of their function. They are more than that and my discussions with Dr. Diaz there has showed me that. But to blindly make a statement regarding what they do when you have no idea what they actually do is like eating the skin of the orange and not knowing what is actually under.

Interstingly you state that the US Government applied pressure (to the OIE) I assume and that is a great example of the lobby groups doing their job. So, at the end of the day, one can safely assume that it is the pressure applied by certain influential lobby groups that will determine a likely aoutcome to an apparent OIE directive. Man alive, isn't it great to live in a democracy wherein the people get to make the choices and not just some "other" interested party or group - say like........Cargyll or Tyson for example?

So, one last question, question?

Who wags the tail of that dog?? And for what reason other than one that is purely associated with trade and international agreements and greed?

And you think it is so simply explainable.
 
Mike said:
Sandhusker said:
QUESTION said:
Maybe familirise yourself with the OIE. The primary concern is animal health of the world they are the animal version of the WHO. It is a long way down from that ivory tower but here we go, until pressured by the USA repesentatives a country could not export animals for 6 years after finding a BSE/BASE positive animal so under the old rules the US would not be able to export anywhere in the world for another 4 1/2 years. Who got the risk levels system put in to allow some trade - your US representatives. You guys want to change rules - OK , but you do not get special rules that only apply to the US.
As i have told you before Sand h I market all my own slaughter animals and you know that, so don't do the whole holier than thow act.

You're right, the OIE did change their guidelines on trade after being pressured by the US. That should tell you something about their credibility on health issues/trade. If they were unbiased and purely a health organization, why did they change their tune? Did the USDA have some new science to update their knowledge on the disease?

You got another coon treed here? :lol: :lol:

I try to be humble, but sometimes this is just too easy. :lol:
 
bse-tester wrote-

Having been to their offices in Paris and talked personally with the Head of the Animal Test Section, you would choke if you knew how many lobby groups attend that office daily. There is a steady stream of paid lobby groups that have one goal in life and that is to sway the Section Heads of each department within the OIE to suit the needs....

:D :D :D What the hell were YOU doing there, Ron???

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Well Timmyboy, it did not take as long for you to surface as I figured it would.

If you must know everything I do Timmy, call them and ask them. But hey, don't waste your time, they will not share that with you or anyone else. You see Timmy, you do not have the necessary clearance to know what I am doing on a day-to-day basis and the chances of you ever having that kind of clearance is lower than zero.

But, in order to appease your conspiracy theory filled mind, I was not there lobbying as you are so desperately hoping. I was invited to attend there for, shall we say, other reasons.

Better luck throwing your mud elsewhere pal. :D :roll: :roll:
 
Well bse - tester correct me i am mistaken. The changes concerning risk status happened under the perview of the old OIE supervisor an american :shock: Now Vallet(sp) a frenchman is running it and the US has to follow the rules set for everyone. There is no satisfying any of these extremesits, so i will just keep sending breeding cattle to the US. All i can do is what i do and ensure my cattle are clear of BSE. These guys have their own adgenda and it has nothing to do with consumer safety or eliminating BSE. Where have all the altruists gone. :cry:
 
Actually QUESTION, the guy in charge is Dr. Francois Diaz. He runs the BSE Section for the OIE and has done so for many years. As far as I know, there are no extremists there but there are some in Canada apparently.

You state:


These guys have their own agenda and it has nothing to do with consumer safety or eliminating BSE.

You obviously know nothing about the OIE and what it is really all about. But it is convenient for you to simply label them as extremists with their own agenda and that is how you view the world. You talk of being sure that you keep your cattle free of BSE. How do you do that? Do you simply go over to them and one at a time, look into their eyes and make a wish?? How the hell do you know what is living inside them on a day to day basis. Last year alone in the UK there were over 200 cases of BSE/Scrapie found prior to slaughter. These animals were not generally reported in the media because the UK Government has decided to simply do discreet surveillance and take them out of the loop wherever possible but they still admit that there is a significant risk that some animals are going through the system.

Also, in the USA, I have been advised that there are a Typical (classic PrPsc) and an A-Typical brain from animals born and raised in the USA. Do you honestly think that there are no conspiracies within the Canadian, UK and US Governments that prevent us and the rest of the world from knowing the depths to which BSE goes in their respective National herds - you can bank on it!!! The folks I have met at the OIE take their jobs extremely seriously and have shown repeatedly that they are dedicated to the ellimination of BSE, Scrapie and all known TSE's. :D :D
 
Not one mention on this thread that the 11th BSE positive cow in Canada came from EAST CENTRAL Alberta. And that little geographic comment is all you're going to be told by government officials/CFIA - as to where this cow was located/raised.

No doubt down-wind of the Wainwright or Suffield military ranges!

But, as far as I can see, there are few, if any people/ranchers that care about the very probable connection between military activities and the onset of BSE/CWD.

Mark Purdey's book "Animal Pharm" is now available, and I have received my shipment. I will soon be sending approximately 30 books to various libraries in Alberta, Saskatchewan and BC. If you don't want to read some of the data, as seen on Mark's webpages, www.markpurdey.com or www.purdeyenvironment.com, you will soon be able to check the book out at one of your local libraries (Western Canadians only).

The research on the internet sites is very similar to what is in the book. If you read "The wasting lands" at:

http://www.markpurdey.com/articles_thewastingland.htm

you will have a heads up, and can explore more articles from this link.

Please consider this, if Mark Purdey is correct (and I have been correct) in our past statements which clearly link military weapons, eg. depleted uranium as one, if not the, nucleating agent causing the misfolding and aggregation of various proteins including the prion protein - the governments of Canada and the USA will NEVER ALLOW BLANKET TESTING, unless, of course, they want to see the total demise of the beef/animal protein industry.

Mark Purdey makes some fine points to ponder in his book. You are missing out, if you don't read it or his research.

Consuming animals contaminated with heavy metals and radio-isotopes is not a good thing, though it is probably unavoidable at this stage of the game. The food chain is compromised; however, meat is one of the least effective methods of contamination as the absorption of these contaminates past the gut/blood barrier is very very low. Low protein, or non-protein foods allow for much higher up-take of these contaminates (as the contaminate is not locked up in the protein shell). The researchers cannot explain how a protease resistant protein molecule gets transported to the brain, especially when it is stuck to the nerve cell membrane.

Anyways the science is there if anybody cares to read about it, and do their own research...

It is a pathetic situation when we are not being told the EXACT location of the BSE positive cattle. There is no reason to hide it from us, except to:

protect those contaminating the environment from being forced to face up to the situation they have created.... ie: the military is getting away with this... and nobody gives a damn.

The rancher that had the positive cow have nothing to lose from speaking out and having the public scrutinize their operations. I, for one, do not believe that the Canadian BSE cases have anything to do with feeding MBM (and the UK cases are very complex - due to a multitude of contamination exposures, Phosmet, heavy metals, Chernobyl fallout, nuclear industry fallout - Sellefield etc.).

I will assist any rancher willing to come forward and ask questions.

Remember that, your operation might be next!
 
Your so full of shirt Kathy....I'm from East Central Alta. Wainwright is almost two hrs from me,if your going to toot your BS get your facts straight.

You and I have had this discussion.....its not the general publics Beeswax where that animal came from....the right authorities know,its devastating to a owner and they DO NOT need to be front and center for the vulturous media
 
You can come to my home anytime and discuss this situation.

Until the truth is known, and we all know that the CFIA is just following the UK mantra, the more people looking at this problem the better.

You are free to trust the "authorities" to tell you what's best; but, for now, I am free to ask my questions and make my statements.

Thought police are not needed here.

Unless you are the most recent rancher "directly affected" by the new BSE case, you have no right to speak for the affected individual.

Certainly, it is devastating for them, especially when they take onto themselves ALL the blame for feeding that darn contaminated MBM/feed. They might be pleasantly surprised to learn that there are other hypotheses out there (the prion/MBM theory is just a hypothesis, not proven science). They might have legal venues which they could pursue, should they wish, to discover if some "industrial/military practice" contributed to their positive animal.

By the way, we are all directly affected by this. Our keeping quiet is exactly what the CFIA and other government officials want. Divide and conquer!

I'm from East Central Alberta too. My ranch may be affected next.

If a case is ever found on our premises, I will not be quiet. The wind can carry contaminates for hundreds, if not thousands of miles, depending on the source of contamination, eg. mine tailings

The very least that officials should release is the "hunting zone" number.
 
Sad for you,I don't see how the affected cow could come from our place as we haven't sold any cattle in a couple years,but chances are prob pretty good I may know the owners...hope I never find out and pray YOU don't either.

The proper authorities know,you or I don't need to,thats it pure and simple
 
Mrs.Greg said:
Sad for you,I don't see how the affected cow could come from our place as we haven't sold any cattle in a couple years,but chances are prob pretty good I may know the owners...hope I never find out and pray YOU don't either.

The proper authorities know,you or I don't need to,thats it pure and simple

If it does come out, and it is either you or your neighbors, I hope you receive just compensation from the packers who sold offal to be used as cattle feed and started the problem to boost their bottom line.

We should never allow or food companies to compete on food safety issues.
 
Tex said:
Mrs.Greg said:
Sad for you,I don't see how the affected cow could come from our place as we haven't sold any cattle in a couple years,but chances are prob pretty good I may know the owners...hope I never find out and pray YOU don't either.

The proper authorities know,you or I don't need to,thats it pure and simple

If it does come out, and it is either you or your neighbors, I hope you receive just compensation from the packers who sold offal to be used as cattle feed and started the problem to boost their bottom line.

We should never allow or food companies to compete on food safety issues.
Well tex,how do you propose that a feed company would accept any responsibilities for thier actions when people like Kathy are publicly disputing it was feed that started this mess.

greg and I don't,never have used feed,just our own home grown hay,straw oats,we don't implant and have very very rarely used antibiotics,we stray on the side of all natural.The cow didn't come from our place.

To be honest Kathys post is the first time I've even heard its an animal from East Central Alta.I don't frequent coffeeshops and my job in the health industry is confidentially based so gossip rarely crosses my ears
 
Not that NEWS stations can't promulgate gossip, but, the EC AB location came from a news report.

Good for you not using the chemicals and antibiotics. I wish more ranchers would go this direction.
 
Kathy said:
You can come to my home anytime and discuss this situation.

Until the truth is known, and we all know that the CFIA is just following the UK mantra, the more people looking at this problem the better.

You are free to trust the "authorities" to tell you what's best; but, for now, I am free to ask my questions and make my statements.

Thought police are not needed here.

Unless you are the most recent rancher "directly affected" by the new BSE case, you have no right to speak for the affected individual.

Certainly, it is devastating for them, especially when they take onto themselves ALL the blame for feeding that darn contaminated MBM/feed. They might be pleasantly surprised to learn that there are other hypotheses out there (the prion/MBM theory is just a hypothesis, not proven science). They might have legal venues which they could pursue, should they wish, to discover if some "industrial/military practice" contributed to their positive animal.

By the way, we are all directly affected by this. Our keeping quiet is exactly what the CFIA and other government officials want. Divide and conquer!

I'm from East Central Alberta too. My ranch may be affected next.

If a case is ever found on our premises, I will not be quiet. The wind can carry contaminates for hundreds, if not thousands of miles, depending on the source of contamination, eg. mine tailings

The very least that officials should release is the "hunting zone" number.



the only contaminant i see flying in the wind here is the BS you are spreading kathy, hope it's not contagious :lol: :lol2: :tiphat:



Transmissible Spongiform Encephalopathy (TSE) risk assessment of the use
of bovine spray dried red cells in feeds for fish, in consideration of a report
produced by the European Animal Protein Association1
Scientific Opinion of the Panel on Biological Hazards
(Question No EFSA-Q-2007-105)
Adopted on 6 December 2007



PANEL MEMBERS
Olivier Andreoletti, Herbert Budka, Sava Buncic, Pierre Colin, John D Collins,
Aline De Koeijer, John Griffin, Arie Havelaar, James Hope, Günter Klein, Hilde Kruse,
Simone Magnino, Antonio Martínez López, James McLauchlin, Christophe Nguyen-The,
Karsten Noeckler, Birgit Noerrung, Miguel Prieto Maradona, Terence Roberts, Ivar Vågsholm,
Emmanuel Vanopdenbosch.


SUMMARY


In its Opinion of 21 October 2004 on BSE risk from dissemination of brain particles in blood
and carcass following stunning, the EFSA concluded that the brain damage caused by both
penetrating and non-penetrating captive bolt stunning in cattle, as well as that caused by
penetrating captive bolt in sheep can result in occurrence of central nervous system tissue in
venous blood draining the head. The risk could however not be quantified.


In its Opinion of 28 April 2005 on the assessment of the health risks of feeding of ruminants
with fishmeal in relation to the risk of TSE the EFSA concluded that if there is any risk of TSE
in fishmeal, this could arise from the mammalian feed being fed to fish which are then included
in fishmeal or through fishmeal contaminated by Meat and Bone Meal (MBM). The risk of TSE
in fish, either being fed directly or by amplification of infectivity is remote.


Against this background, the European Commission has requested to the Scientific Panel on
Biological Hazards to deliver a scientific opinion on a TSE risk assessment of the use of bovine
blood in feeds for fish, in consideration of a report produced by the European Animal Protein
Association (EAPA).


The EFSA opinion considers that the EAPA report is well written and comprehensive. However,
its qualitative approach does not fully take into account the uncertainties surrounding several of
its risk parameters. Consequently, its conclusions may be overly optimistic.


1 For citation purposes: Opinion of the Scientific Panel on Biological Hazards on the request from the European
Commission on a Transmissible Spongiform Encephalopathy risk assessment of the use of bovine spray dried red
cells in feeds for fish, in consideration of a report produced by the European Animal Protein Association. The
EFSA Journal (2007), 596, 1-45.


Opinion on a TSE risk assessment of the use of bovine spray dried red cells in feeds for fish,
in consideration of a report produced by the European Animal Protein Association
The EFSA Journal (2007) 596, 2-45


A human or animal health risk may arise if recycling of BSE-contaminated bovine SDRC occurs
directly (bovine SDRC fed to cattle) or indirectly (fishmeal made from fish recently fed with
BSE contaminated bovine SDRC given to cattle) because this would be equivalent to feeding
cattle by-products to cattle (intra-species recycling).


The assessment of the BSE related-risk of bovine SDRC from slaughtered bovine animals
considered fit for human consumption to be included in aqua feed is theoretically feasible both
semi-quantitatively and quantitatively by developing a probabilistic risk assessment model.
However, key parameter limits of this model (i.e. endogenous bovine blood BSE infectivity and
degree of contamination with CNS by current stunning and slaughter methods) can only be
developed from expert opinion and judgement, as there is currently not experimental data
available. Both the degree of uncertainty of this type of data (which would reduce the robustness
of any risk estimates) and the extensive work that would be needed to produce such model
makes its development unrealistic in the frame of this opinion.


On the other hand and considering the current implementation of the EU feed-ban, the inclusion
of bovine blood products in the authorized list of ingredients in fish feed would potentially limit
the suitability of current available tools, to detect the presence of prohibited bovine by-products
(i.e. SRM)


Following this, the BIOHAZ panel recommends to develop and assess the outcome of a semiquantitative
or quantitative risk model of the BSE risk of bovine SDRC employed in aqua feed.
In order to enhance the robustness of that risk assessment with experimental data which is
currently not available, it is further recommended to quantitatively evaluate different risk
parameters. These would include the evaluation of the endogenous blood infectivity levels in
incubating and terminally BSE affected cattle, the evaluation of the current allowed methods for
cattle stunning for the potential to produce embolism and the quantitative assessment of the CNS
contamination risk posed by different blood collection methods.


Finally, a combination of tests capable of detecting, with a high level of sensitivity, the species
and tissue origin of the animal proteins included in fish feed should be developed and validated.



snip...


CONCLUSIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS


CONCLUSIONS


• The EAPA report is well written and comprehensive. However, its qualitative approach
does not fully take into account the uncertainties surrounding several of its risk
parameters. Consequently, its conclusions may be overly optimistic.


• A human or animal health risk may arise if recycling of BSE-contaminated bovine SDRC
occurs directly (bovine SDRC fed to cattle) or indirectly (fishmeal made from fish
recently fed with BSE contaminated bovine SDRC given to cattle) because this would be
equivalent to feeding cattle by-products to cattle (intra-species recycling).


• The production technology employed for the manufacturing of SDRC as described in the
EAPA report would be unlikely to reduce BSE infectivity if present.


• The assessment of the BSE related-risk of bovine SDRC from slaughtered bovine
animals considered fit for human consumption to be included in aqua feed is theoretically
feasible both semi-quantitatively and quantitatively by developing of a probabilistic risk
assessment model. However, key parameter limits of this model (i.e. endogenous bovine
blood BSE infectivity and degree of contamination with CNS by current stunning and
slaughter methods) can only be developed from expert opinion and judgement, as there is
Opinion on a TSE risk assessment of the use of bovine spray dried red cells in feeds for fish,
in consideration of a report produced by the European Animal Protein Association


The EFSA Journal (2007) 596, 16-45


currently not experimental data available. Both the degree of uncertainty of this type of
data (which would reduce the robustness of any risk estimates) and the extensive work
that would be needed to produce such model makes its development unrealistic in the
frame of this opinion.


• Inclusion of bovine blood products in the authorized list of ingredients in fish feed would
potentially limit the suitability of current available tools, to detect for the presence of
prohibited bovine by-products (i.e. SRM). The results of PCR and other DNA based
methods would be particularly prone to misinterpretation if bovine SDRC, which
includes DNA containing leucocytes, was included in feed.


RECOMMENDATIONS


• To develop and assess the outcome of a semi-quantitative or quantitative risk model of
the BSE risk of bovine SDRC employed in aqua feed.


• To evaluate the endogenous blood infectivity levels in incubating and terminally BSE
affected cattle, in order to provide a quantitative estimate of this source of blood
infectivity as a parameter for the quantitative risk model.


• To evaluate the potential of currently allowed methods for cattle stunning to produce
embolism, in order to provide a quantitative estimate of this source of blood infectivity as
a parameter for the quantitative risk model.


• To assess in a quantitative way the risk of CNS contamination posed by different blood
collection methods.


• To develop and validate a combination of tests capable of detecting with a high level of
sensitivity, the species and tissue origin of the animal proteins included in fish feed.



http://www.efsa.europa.eu/EFSA/Scientific_Opinion/biohaz_op_ej596_blood_feeds_fish_en.pdf



EFSA opinion on the BSE related public health risks of certain animal proteins in animal feed
15/11/2007


It is widely accepted that BSE[1] was most likely spread in cattle because they were given feed that contained BSE-contaminated animal proteins. With limited exceptions, the practice of feeding animal protein to cattle or any other farmed livestock used for food has been banned since 2001 [2]. At the request of the European Parliament, EFSA has issued an opinion on the BSE related public health risks of certain animal proteins in animal feed, which will help inform any future consideration of amendments to the existing feed ban.

EFSA's BIOHAZ[3] Panel's opinion particularly addressed feed containing pig protein being fed to poultry and feed containing poultry protein being fed to pigs. The concern relates to the risk of transmission of the BSE agent through animal feed and hence the risk of causing BSE related exposure in humans. The Panel has concluded, with certain qualifications, that the risks to public health would be negligible: up to now, BSE has not been identified in pigs or poultry under natural conditions, therefore the risk of transmitting BSE to pigs through feeding poultry processed proteins and vice-versa is considered negligible. Hence the Panel conclusion in relation to public health.
Certain important qualifications are attached to this opinion. The Panel's conclusions take into account the decline in the BSE epidemic and the current control measures in place. The Panel stressed that their opinion only remains valid in the context of the continued effective implementation of the other current BSE control measures. Whilst BSE has so far not been found to occur under natural conditions in either pigs or poultry, if a TSE were ever found to occur naturally there would be a need to reassess the risk. It is also noted that it is not yet possible, with the currently approved method, to distinguish the species origin of proteins in a feed product.

The Panel also considered a further request from the Parliament on the public health risks in relation to introducing possible tolerance levels for small quantities of any animal protein in animal feed. The Panel concluded that it is not currently possible to define the parameters that would enable risk managers to establish such tolerance levels, due to the lack of internationally agreed scientific methodology.

The Panel also noted that introducing any tolerance level would lead to an increase in the risk of transmission of BSE compared to the current EU situation. Given that it is not currently possible to quantify amounts of animal proteins in feed, it is not possible to determine whether the amounts would be above or below what may be considered as the tolerance level. The Panel recommended further studies on detection limits and techniques to quantify animal proteins in feed.

Under the current protective measures, if a tolerance level for animal protein in feed was to be introduced, the risk of transmitting BSE to cattle or other ruminants cannot be excluded. The few infected animals that could arise would probably not be able to maintain the presence of BSE in the cattle population but would increase the potential risk of human exposure to BSE. However, the risk of transmitting BSE to non-ruminants, if a tolerance level was to be introduced, is lower than to ruminants, as long as intra-species recycling is avoided and so in this scenario the Panel concluded that any increase in the exposure risk of BSE for humans would be negligible.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[1] Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE), which affects cattle, is the most well known Transmissible Spongiform Encephalopathy (TSE). TSE's are a family of transmissible progressive diseases that mainly affect the central nervous system. Other examples of TSEs include Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (CJD) in humans and scrapie in sheep
[2] Regulation EC No 999/2001 of the European Parliament and of the Council lays down rules for the prevention., control and eradication of certain TSEs
[3] EFSA's Scientific Panel on Biological Hazards (BIOHAZ)

http://www.efsa.europa.eu/EFSA/efsa_locale-1178620753812_1178659674461.htm


Parma, 11 May 2007
PRESS RELEASE


EFSA opinion on the likelihood of BSE infectivity in specified risk material
from cattle at different age groups


EFSA has today published an opinion on the likelihood of BSE infectivity in specified risk materials
(SRM)1 from cattle at different age groups. SRMs are the tissues in cattle containing the highest
risk of BSE infectivity. These are removed as a key element of the EU BSE controls2. EFSA was
asked by the European Commission to follow-up on one of its recommendations from its previous
opinion (EFSA, 20053) on SRM removal by further estimating the likelihood of the infectivity in
SRMs derived from BSE-infected cattle. Following evaluation of new experimental data, the EFSA
Panel on biological hazards (BIOHAZ) confirmed that its earlier opinion of 2005 is still valid, which
said that BSE infectivity in the central nervous system of cattle occurs during the last quarter of the
incubation period in the animal before the disease becomes clinically detectable.


Experimental data confirmed that the "marker" for BSE (the disease-associated prion protein) in the
central nervous system of cattle becomes detectable during the last quarter of the BSE incubation period
in the animal, before the disease becomes clinically manifest. In applying this prediction model on the
likely natural exposure of cattle (rather than artificial laboratory experiments), the BSE "marker" would
either not be detectable or would still be absent in the vertebral column in cattle up to and including the
age of 33 months. However, the interpretation of such experimental data needs to take into account the
exceptional detection of BSE infection in animals younger than 33 months in EU cohorts born after 2000,
and the fact that failure to detect the BSE "marker" does not guarantee absence of infectivity in a tissue4.


1 Specified Risk Materials are animal tissues in cattle, such as the spinal cord, brain, vertebral column (that includes nervous
ganglia), and tonsils which are most likely to carry the infective BSE agent.
2 Various SRM materials are removed either at all ages (eg tonsils); over 12 months (eg the skull and spinal cord); or at 24
months (eg vertebral column) in cattle in the EU.
Full details: http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/lex/LexUriServ/site/en/oj/2006/l_116/l_11620060429en00090013.pdf
The 24 month vertebral column risk management decision was made by the European Commission informed by the 2005
EFSA opinion on SRMs:
http://eurlex.
europa.eu/Notice.do?val=418201:cs&lang=en&list=438337:cs,429650:cs,426000:cs,425765:cs,424532:cs,422602:cs,4220
90:cs,418201:cs,406122:cs,402452:cs,&pos=8&page=1&nbl=29&pgs=10&hwords=999/2001~
3 http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/science/biohaz/biohaz_opinions/938.html
4 In updating its previous opinion, the BIOHAZ Panel became aware that scientific consensus on the preferred approach to
calculating BSE infectivity recommended by experts in 2005, could not be achieved. This approach, drawing on surveillance
data from Member States, would have developed a predictive model of the number of BSE cases in different age groups. The
possibility that this approach might not be viable had been anticipated in 2005 as a potential limitation. Hence, the Panel based
its opinion on new experimental studies and additional experimental data on BSE detection in cattle together with actual
epidemiological data from surveillance rather than any predictive modelling.


The Panel also noted that the BSE epidemic is in decline5, and is likely to continue to decrease further, in
the different EU Member States. However, the Panel also recommended that there is good reason to
consider the risk level of each Member State separately or consider groups with similar characteristics
because of differences at the start of various control measures and surveillance between EU member
states, as well as differences in the country specific level of exposure.
It is for the European Commission and risk managers in Member States to decide whether any
modifications to current controls are warranted, informed by EFSA's opinion.
The opinion is available on the EFSA website at:
http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/science/biohaz/biohaz_opinions/biohaz_op_ej476_srm.html
For media enquiries, please contact:
E-mail: [email protected]
Alun Jones, Press Officer
Tel: +39 0521 036 487
or
Anne-Laure Gassin, EFSA Communications Director
Tel: +39 0521 036 248
Mobile: +39 348 640 3434
5 Since the implementation of the TSE Regulation in 2001, more than 50 million of adult bovine animals have been tested
across the EU and around 7.000 cases have been detected. A constant decline (about 35 % per year) in the number of cases has
been recorded: from 2.167 cases in 2001 to around 520 cases in 2005. Only 22 cases concerned animals born after introduction
of the total feed ban.

European Food Safety Authority - Largo N. Palli 5/a, I - 43100 Parma
0521 036 111 • Fax: (+39) 0521 036 110 • [email protected] • www.efsa.europa.eu


http://www.efsa.europa.eu/EFSA/News_PR/pr_biohaz_srm_en,0.pdf



P04.27

Experimental BSE Infection of Non-human Primates: Efficacy of the Oral Route


Holznagel, E1; Yutzy, B1; Deslys, J-P2; Lasmézas, C2; Pocchiari, M3; Ingrosso, L3;
Bierke, P4; Schulz-Schaeffer, W5; Motzkus, D6; Hunsmann, G6; Löwer, J1
1Paul-Ehrlich-Institut, Germany; 2Commissariat à l´Energie Atomique, France; 3Instituto
Superiore di Sanità, Italy; 4Swedish Institute for Infectious Disease control, Sweden;
5Georg August University, Germany; 6German Primate Center, Germany


Background:

In 2001, a study was initiated in primates to assess the risk for humans
to contract BSE through contaminated food. For this purpose, BSE brain was
titrated in cynomolgus monkeys.


Aims:

The primary objective is the determination of the minimal infectious dose (MID50)
for oral exposure to BSE in a simian model, and, by in doing this, to assess the risk for
humans. Secondly, we aimed at examining the course of the disease to identify
possible biomarkers.


Methods:


Groups with six monkeys each were orally dosed with lowering amounts of
BSE brain: 16g, 5g, 0.5g, 0.05g, and 0.005g. In a second titration study,
animals were intracerebrally (i.c.) dosed (50, 5, 0.5, 0.05, and 0.005 mg).


Results:


In an ongoing study, a considerable number of high-dosed macaques already
developed simian vCJD upon oral or intracerebral exposure or are at the onset of the
clinical phase. However, there are differences in the clinical course between orally and
intracerebrally infected animals that may influence the detection of biomarkers.


Conclusions:


Simian vCJD can be easily triggered in cynomolgus monkeys on the oral
route using less than 5 g BSE brain homogenate. The difference in the incubation
period between 5 g oral and 5 mg i.c. is only 1 year (5 years versus 4 years). However,
there are rapid progressors among orally dosed monkeys that develop simian vCJD as
fast as intracerebrally inoculated animals.


The work referenced was performed in partial fulfilment of the study "BSE in primates"
supported by the EU (QLK1-2002-01096).


http://www.prion2007.com/pdf/Prion%20Book%20of%20Abstracts.pdf


look at the table and you'll see that as little as 1 mg (or 0.001 gm) caused
7% (1 of 14) of the cows to come down with BSE;


Risk of oral infection with bovine spongiform encephalopathy agent in
primates

Corinne Ida Lasmézas, Emmanuel Comoy, Stephen Hawkins, Christian Herzog,
Franck Mouthon, Timm Konold, Frédéric Auvré, Evelyne Correia, Nathalie
Lescoutra-Etchegaray, Nicole Salès, Gerald Wells, Paul Brown, Jean-Philippe
Deslys Summary The uncertain extent of human exposure to bovine spongiform
encephalopathy (BSE)--which can lead to variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease
(vCJD)--is compounded by incomplete knowledge about the efficiency of oral
infection and the magnitude of any bovine-to-human biological barrier to
transmission. We therefore investigated oral transmission of BSE to
non-human primates. We gave two macaques a 5 g oral dose of brain homogenate
from a BSE-infected cow. One macaque developed vCJD-like neurological
disease 60 months after exposure, whereas the other remained free of disease
at 76 months. On the basis of these findings and data from other studies, we
made a preliminary estimate of the food exposure risk for man, which
provides additional assurance that existing public health measures can
prevent transmission of BSE to man.


snip...


BSE bovine brain inoculum

100 g 10 g 5 g 1 g 100 mg 10 mg 1 mg 0·1 mg 0·01 mg

Primate (oral route)* 1/2 (50%)

Cattle (oral route)* 10/10 (100%) 7/9 (78%) 7/10 (70%) 3/15 (20%) 1/15 (7%)
1/15 (7%)

RIII mice (ic ip route)* 17/18 (94%) 15/17 (88%) 1/14 (7%)

PrPres biochemical detection

The comparison is made on the basis of calibration of the bovine inoculum
used in our study with primates against a bovine brain inoculum with a
similar PrPres concentration that was

inoculated into mice and cattle.8 *Data are number of animals
positive/number of animals surviving at the time of clinical onset of
disease in the first positive animal (%). The accuracy of

bioassays is generally judged to be about plus or minus 1 log. ic
ip=intracerebral and intraperitoneal.

Table 1: Comparison of transmission rates in primates and cattle infected
orally with similar BSE brain inocula


Published online January 27, 2005

http://www.thelancet.com/journal/journal.isa



It is clear that the designing scientists must

also have shared Mr Bradley's surprise at the results because all the dose

levels right down to 1 gram triggered infection.


http://www.bseinquiry.gov.uk/files/ws/s145d.pdf


2

6. It also appears to me that Mr Bradley's answer (that it would take less than say 100

grams) was probably given with the benefit of hindsight; particularly if one

considers that later in the same answer Mr Bradley expresses his surprise that it

could take as little of 1 gram of brain to cause BSE by the oral route within the

same species. This information did not become available until the "attack rate"

experiment had been completed in 1995/96. This was a titration experiment

designed to ascertain the infective dose. A range of dosages was used to ensure

that the actual result was within both a lower and an upper limit within the study

and the designing scientists would not have expected all the dose levels to trigger

infection. The dose ranges chosen by the most informed scientists at that time

ranged from 1 gram to three times one hundred grams. It is clear that the designing

scientists must have also shared Mr Bradley's surprise at the results because all the

dose levels right down to 1 gram triggered infection.


http://www.bseinquiry.gov.uk/files/ws/s147f.pdf



2003D-0186
Guidance for Industry: Use of Material From Deer and Elk In Animal Feed


EMC 7
Terry S. Singeltary Sr.
Vol #: 1

Subject: DOCKET-- 03D-0186 -- FDA Issues Draft Guidance on Use of Material
From Deer and Elk in Animal Feed; Availability
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 11:47:37 -0500
From: "Terry S. Singeltary Sr."
To: [email protected]


snip...

Oral transmission and early lymphoid tropism of chronic wasting disease
PrPres in mule deer fawns (Odocoileus hemionus )
Christina J. Sigurdson1, Elizabeth S. Williams2, Michael W. Miller3,
Terry R. Spraker1,4, Katherine I. O'Rourke5 and Edward A. Hoover1

Department of Pathology, College of Veterinary Medicine and Biomedical
Sciences, Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO 80523- 1671, USA1
Department of Veterinary Sciences, University of Wyoming, 1174 Snowy
Range Road, University of Wyoming, Laramie, WY 82070, USA 2
Colorado Division of Wildlife, Wildlife Research Center, 317 West
Prospect Road, Fort Collins, CO 80526-2097, USA3
Colorado State University Veterinary Diagnostic Laboratory, 300 West
Drake Road, Fort Collins, CO 80523-1671, USA4
Animal Disease Research Unit, Agricultural Research Service, US
Department of Agriculture, 337 Bustad Hall, Washington State University,
Pullman, WA 99164-7030, USA5

Author for correspondence: Edward Hoover.Fax +1 970 491 0523. e-mail
[email protected]

Mule deer fawns (Odocoileus hemionus) were inoculated orally with a
brain homogenate prepared from mule deer with naturally occurring
chronic wasting disease (CWD), a prion-induced transmissible spongiform
encephalopathy. Fawns were necropsied and examined for PrP res, the
abnormal prion protein isoform, at 10, 42, 53, 77, 78 and 80 days
post-inoculation (p.i.) using an immunohistochemistry assay modified to
enhance sensitivity. PrPres was detected in alimentary-tract-associated
lymphoid tissues (one or more of the following: retropharyngeal lymph
node, tonsil, Peyer's patch and ileocaecal lymph node) as early as 42
days p.i. and in all fawns examined thereafter (53 to 80 days p.i.). No
PrPres staining was detected in lymphoid tissue of three control fawns
receiving a control brain inoculum, nor was PrPres detectable in neural
tissue of any fawn. PrPres-specific staining was markedly enhanced by
sequential tissue treatment with formic acid, proteinase K and hydrated
autoclaving prior to immunohistochemical staining with monoclonal
antibody F89/160.1.5. These results indicate that CWD PrP res can be
detected in lymphoid tissues draining the alimentary tract within a few
weeks after oral exposure to infectious prions and may reflect the
initial pathway of CWD infection in deer. The rapid infection of deer
fawns following exposure by the most plausible natural route is
consistent with the efficient horizontal transmission of CWD in nature
and enables accelerated studies of transmission and pathogenesis in the
native species.

snip...

These results indicate that mule deer fawns develop detectable PrP res
after oral exposure to an inoculum containing CWD prions. In the
earliest post-exposure period, CWD PrPres was traced to the lymphoid
tissues draining the oral and intestinal mucosa (i.e. the
retropharyngeal lymph nodes, tonsil, ileal Peyer's patches and
ileocaecal lymph nodes), which probably received the highest initial
exposure to the inoculum. Hadlow et al. (1982) demonstrated scrapie
agent in the tonsil, retropharyngeal and mesenteric lymph nodes, ileum
and spleen in a 10-month-old naturally infected lamb by mouse bioassay.
Eight of nine sheep had infectivity in the retropharyngeal lymph node.
He concluded that the tissue distribution suggested primary infection
via the gastrointestinal tract. The tissue distribution of PrPres in the
early stages of infection in the fawns is strikingly similar to that
seen in naturally infected sheep with scrapie. These findings support
oral exposure as a natural route of CWD infection in deer and support
oral inoculation as a reasonable exposure route for experimental studies
of CWD.

snip...

http://vir.sgmjournals.org/cgi/content/full/80/10/2757



Subject: MAD DEER/ELK DISEASE AND POTENTIAL SOURCES
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 18:41:46 -0700
From: "Terry S. Singeltary Sr."
Reply-To: BSE-L
To: BSE-L

8420-20.5% Antler Developer
For Deer and Game in the wild
Guaranteed Analysis Ingredients / Products Feeding Directions

snip...

_animal protein_

http://www.surefed.com/deer.htm

BODE'S GAME FEED SUPPLEMENT #400
A RATION FOR DEER
NET WEIGHT 50 POUNDS
22.6 KG.

snip...

_animal protein_

http://www.bodefeed.com/prod7.htm




J Infect Dis. 2004 Aug 1;190(3):653-60.

Oral transmission of kuru, Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, and scrapie to nonhuman primates.

Gibbs CJ Jr, Amyx HL, Bacote A, Masters CL, Gajdusek DC.
Kuru and Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease of humans and scrapie disease of sheep and goats were transmitted to squirrel monkeys (Saimiri sciureus) that were exposed to the infectious agents only by their nonforced consumption of known infectious tissues. The asymptomatic incubation period in the one monkey exposed to the virus of kuru was 36 months; that in the two monkeys exposed to the virus of Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease was 23 and 27 months, respectively; and that in the two monkeys exposed to the virus of scrapie was 25 and 32 months, respectively. Careful physical examination of the buccal cavities of all of the monkeys failed to reveal signs or oral lesions. One additional monkey similarly exposed to kuru has remained asymptomatic during the 39 months that it has been under observation.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?...


10,000,000+ LBS. of PROHIBITED BANNED MAD COW FEED I.E. MBM IN COMMERCE USA 2007



Date: March 21, 2007 at 2:27 pm PST
RECALLS AND FIELD CORRECTIONS: VETERINARY MEDICINES -- CLASS II
___________________________________
PRODUCT
Bulk cattle feed made with recalled Darling's 85% Blood Meal, Flash Dried, Recall # V-024-2007
CODE
Cattle feed delivered between 01/12/2007 and 01/26/2007
RECALLING FIRM/MANUFACTURER
Pfeiffer, Arno, Inc, Greenbush, WI. by conversation on February 5, 2007. Firm initiated recall is ongoing.
REASON
Blood meal used to make cattle feed was recalled because it was cross-contaminated with prohibited bovine meat and bone meal that had been manufactured on common equipment and labeling did not bear cautionary BSE statement.
VOLUME OF PRODUCT IN COMMERCE
42,090 lbs.
DISTRIBUTION
WI

___________________________________
PRODUCT
Custom dairy premix products: MNM ALL PURPOSE Pellet, HILLSIDE/CDL Prot-Buffer Meal, LEE, M.-CLOSE UP PX Pellet, HIGH DESERT/ GHC LACT Meal, TATARKA, M CUST PROT Meal, SUNRIDGE/CDL PROTEIN Blend, LOURENZO, K PVM DAIRY Meal, DOUBLE B DAIRY/GHC LAC Mineral, WEST PIONT/GHC CLOSEUP Mineral, WEST POINT/GHC LACT Meal, JENKS, J/COMPASS PROTEIN Meal, COPPINI – 8# SPECIAL DAIRY Mix, GULICK, L-LACT Meal (Bulk), TRIPLE J – PROTEIN/LACTATION, ROCK CREEK/GHC MILK Mineral, BETTENCOURT/GHC S.SIDE MK-MN, BETTENCOURT #1/GHC MILK MINR, V&C DAIRY/GHC LACT Meal, VEENSTRA, F/GHC LACT Meal, SMUTNY, A-BYPASS ML W/SMARTA, Recall # V-025-2007
CODE
The firm does not utilize a code - only shipping documentation with commodity and weights identified.
RECALLING FIRM/MANUFACTURER
Rangen, Inc, Buhl, ID, by letters on February 13 and 14, 2007. Firm initiated recall is complete.
REASON
Products manufactured from bulk feed containing blood meal that was cross contaminated with prohibited meat and bone meal and the labeling did not bear cautionary BSE statement.
VOLUME OF PRODUCT IN COMMERCE
9,997,976 lbs.
DISTRIBUTION
ID and NV

END OF ENFORCEMENT REPORT FOR MARCH 21, 2007


http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/enforce/2007/ENF00996.html


Scientific Report of the European Food Safety Authority on the Assessment of the Geographical BSE Risk (GBR) of the United States of America (USA)
Question number: EFSA-Q-2003-083


http://www.efsa.europa.eu/EFSA/Scientific_Document/sr03_biohaz02_usa_report_v2_en1,0.pdf



Subject: FATEPriDE Environmental Factors that Affect the Development of
Prion Diseases
Date: February 18, 2006 at 9:24 am PST

FATEPriDE


Environmental Factors that Affect the Development of Prion Diseases.

Project funded by the European Commission under the Quality of Life
Programme.


Contract No: QLK4-CT-2002-02723

Project No: QLRT-2001-02723

Start Date

1st January 2003

Duration

36 months plus 6 month extension

Partners

1. The University of Bristol, UK (Co-ordinator)
2. National Environment Research Council-The British Geological Society, UK
3. University of Bath, UK
4. Free University of Berlin, Germany
5. University of Iceland, Iceland
6. Universita degli studi di Perugia, Italy
7. Universite Joseph Fourier Grenoble, France
8. Alpine Institute of Environmental Dynamics, France

Introduction

The work proposed here brings together top EU geo and biochemists focusing
on determining the environmental factors that affect the development of
prion diseases such as scrapie, bovine spongiform enchpalitis (BSE), chronic
wasting disease (CWD) and Creutzfeld-Jacobs disease (CJD). First the
geographical distribution of manganese and copper in soils will be
investigated as risk factors. This will be undertaken due to the fact that
prion diseases often are found in clusters. It now has been established that
the normal metal for prion protein is copper but if that metal is replaced
with manganese, the structure of the prion protein is altered. The role of
organophosphate pesticides will also be investigated because it has been
suggested that copper is complexed with organophosphate, preventing copper
absorption.

Objectives

There is clear evidence that the occurrence of prion diseases often has a
non-random distribution, suggesting a link to some environmental factors.
The work proposed here will investigate risk factors, including the role of
trace elements and organophosphates. Analysis of regional variation in local
manganese/copper levels will be determined and compared to the incidence of
the diseases. The ability of manganese and/or organophosphates in
influencing conversion of the prion protein to an abnormal and/or infectious
protein will be determined. In combination with geographical occurrence and
geo-chemical considerations this program will identify whether these
environmental considerations should be acted upon to bring about effective
prevention or at least risk minimalisation of prion diseases in the EU and
further afield.

Description of the Work

Recently it has been suggested that disbalance in dietary trace-elements
and/or exposure to organophosphates might either cause or be a risk factor
for prion disease development. In particular, high incidence of scrapie
(e.g. in Iceland), chronic wasting disease, and in Slovakia and Italy CJD
are associated with regions where soil and foliage are reported to be low in
copper and high in manganese. This proposal will address whether exposure to
a diet that has a high manganese/copper ratio can influence prion disease
will also be addressed. In particular, we shall investigate this theory at
the level of protein, cells, animals as well as geographical and
geo-chemical associations with prion diseases. Animal models of prion
disease and sheep from farms in regions of high scrapie will be investigated
for a possible influence of level of manganese and copper on incidence or
onset of these diseases. Bio-chemical and biophysical techniques will be
used to investigate interaction of the prion protein with copper and
manganese to determine the mechanism by which Mn substitution for Cu
influences conversion to the abnormal isoform of the protein and whether
such conversion results in protein that is infectious in mouse bioassay for
infectivity. Additionally, a cell culture model will be used to generate
abnormal prion protein by exposure to manganese. Cell culture model of
infection will be used to assay whether prion disease alters manganese
metabolism and transport of manganese into cells. The level of expression of
the prion protein is in itself a risk factor for prion disease as it
shortens the incubation time for the disease. This research will result in
understanding of the role of disbalance in the trace elements Cu and Mn on
the onset and mechanisms behind the occurrence of prion diseases and will
for the first time define whether there are environmental risk factors for
prion diseases.

Milestones and Expected Results

The study proposed here will produce a geo-chemical map of Europe for
manganese and copper. These maps will be used to target field areas where
prion diseases have occurred as clusters. The bio-chemical studies will
establish whether the replacement of manganese for copper in prion protein
is a risk factor for the disease _development_. Organophosphate will also be
investigated as a risk factor. The study aims at minimising the risk of
prion diseases for humans and animals in the EU.



http://www.arp-manchester.org.uk/FatePride.htm


SINCE THEN ;


Subject: FATEPriDE KEY FINDINGS ORGANOPHOSPHATE NO RELATIONSHIP TO CAUSE TSE
Date: May 3, 2007 at 8:41 am PST

KEY FINDINGS

Organophosphate Studies

6. Studies using phosmet (an organophosphate pesticide) were
carried out throughout the project. No relationship between this
compound and the potential to cause a TSE were identified. In
studies with oral dosing of rats, it was shown that PrP expression
levels increased in the brain but there was no association between
this and formation of proteinase K (PK) resistant PrP.


snip...


12. A model of seed protein aggregation and fibril formation was
established using PrP charged with Mn2+. PrP-Mn2+ was found to
form small circular aggregates able to catalyse further protein
aggregation and fibrilisation of PrP. This model unlike other
published models (for example those of Baskakov et al.1) does not
require the presence of denaturants and is not an autocatalytic
process (i.e. the substrate of the reaction did not aggregate). The
results suggest that Mn2+ may play a role in the formation of prion
seeds

__although further studies showed that this material was not
infectious in mouse bioassay.__

snip...

24. The project also generated information concerning the relation of
TSEs to environmental factors:
• __Potentially no role for organophosphates in TSEs.__
• Increased Mn in the diet results in higher PrP levels in the
brain.
• No conclusion is yet possible in terms of the relationship
between environmental trace element concentrations and the
geographical occurrence of TSEs (classical scrapie or BSE).
• Some confirmation was provided that in some specific farms
occurrence of classical scrapie correlates with high Mn levels.


http://www.seac.gov.uk/papers/97-4.pdf



a) As regards the involvement of organophosphates in the origin of BSE, no
new scientific
information providing evidence or supporting the hypothesis by valid data
became
available after the adoption of the last opinion of the SSC on this issue.
Consequently
there is no reason for modifying the existing opinions.
b) Regarding the possibility of OP poisoning, the European legislation for
registration of
plant protection products and veterinary medicines – addressed in the
enquiries – provide
the basis for safe use of registered compounds and their formulations.
Regarding the
alleged intoxication cases reported and OP exposure it must be concluded
that safety
measures may not have been strictly followed.
References
Brown, D.R., Qin, K., Herms, J.W., Madlung, A., Manson, J., Strome, R.,
Fraser, P.E., Kruck, T., von
Bohlen, A., Schulz- Schaeffer, W., Giese, A., Westaway, D. and Kretzschmar,
H. (1997) The Cellular
Prion Protein Binds Copper In Vivo, Nature, 390, 684-7.
Purdey, M. (2000) Ecosystems Supporting Clusters of Sporadic TSEs
Demonstrate Excesses of the Radical-
Generating Divalent Cation Manganese and Deficiencies of Antioxidant
Co-Factors Cu, Se, Fe, Zn Medical
Hypotheses, 54, 278-306.
Scientific Steering Committee, 1998. Opinion on possible links between BSE
and Organophosphates. Adopted
on 25-26 June 1998
Scientific Steering Committee, 2001. Opinion on Hypotheses on the origin and
transmission of BSE. Adopted
on 29-30 November 2001.

http://europa.eu.int/comm/food/fs/sc/ssc/out356_en.pdf



OP'S MEETING WITH PURDEY

http://www.bseinquiry.gov.uk/files/yb/1994/02/09001001.pdf



TSS
 
Canada has a surveillance program in place to find positive cases. There is also an import policy that would not allow animals in from countries that might have BSE positive animals. And regulations prohibit the feeding of materials that might transmit the disease.

The agency noted the animal was born before the implementation of Canada's initial feed ban in 1997. This ban is supposed to greatly reduce the chances of transmission of the disease.

Almost 22 per cent of the Canadian beef herd was born before 1998, said Theresa Keddy, spokeswoman for the Canadian Cattlemen's Association, quoting Statistics Canada figures from this year.

That number is much lower - almost 12 per cent - for dairy cattle, she added. Keddy said the new case is not a good thing, but it was not entirely unexpected. "It still is expected we will get more animals in the next 10 years as it is eventually eradicated completely from the herd."

This case does show the surveillance program is working. Numbers of positive cases are also going down over the years, she added. There were five animals in 2006 and three in 2007, she said.

The lower number is not a result of less testing. There were 24,336 animals tested in Alberta from January to November this year, said Dr. Gerald Hauer

NO I will not post the link do your own home work.But this is some interesting numbers of how much testing is being done .
 
bse-tester said:
Well Timmyboy, it did not take as long for you to surface as I figured it would.

If you must know everything I do Timmy, call them and ask them. But hey, don't waste your time, they will not share that with you or anyone else. You see Timmy, you do not have the necessary clearance to know what I am doing on a day-to-day basis and the chances of you ever having that kind of clearance is lower than zero.

But, in order to appease your conspiracy theory filled mind, I was not there lobbying as you are so desperately hoping. I was invited to attend there for, shall we say, other reasons.

Better luck throwing your mud elsewhere pal. :D :roll: :roll:

Whatever you say, Ronad. It was just a simple question. No need to get teste. You probably travelled all the way to GAY Pareee just because they "invited" you. Of course it had nothing to do with trying to sell your pee-pee test. I believe you......... really. :roll: :roll: :D
 
TimH said:
bse-tester said:
Well Timmyboy, it did not take as long for you to surface as I figured it would.

If you must know everything I do Timmy, call them and ask them. But hey, don't waste your time, they will not share that with you or anyone else. You see Timmy, you do not have the necessary clearance to know what I am doing on a day-to-day basis and the chances of you ever having that kind of clearance is lower than zero.

But, in order to appease your conspiracy theory filled mind, I was not there lobbying as you are so desperately hoping. I was invited to attend there for, shall we say, other reasons.

Better luck throwing your mud elsewhere pal. :D :roll: :roll:

Whatever you say, Ronad. It was just a simple question. No need to get teste. You probably travelled all the way to GAY Pareee just because they "invited" you. Of course it had nothing to do with trying to sell your pee-pee test. I believe you......... really. :roll: :roll: :D

Yep-- No wonder Canada's cattle/beef industry is in the outhouse hole- with Canadian producers that have such "progressive" (:???: :roll: :lol: ) attitudes as that...

I'm starting to wonder if ol Ron, Cam, and rkaiser are the only ones in Canada that can see beyond the end of their noses...... :( :(
 
Oldtimer said:
TimH said:
bse-tester said:
Well Timmyboy, it did not take as long for you to surface as I figured it would.

If you must know everything I do Timmy, call them and ask them. But hey, don't waste your time, they will not share that with you or anyone else. You see Timmy, you do not have the necessary clearance to know what I am doing on a day-to-day basis and the chances of you ever having that kind of clearance is lower than zero.

But, in order to appease your conspiracy theory filled mind, I was not there lobbying as you are so desperately hoping. I was invited to attend there for, shall we say, other reasons.

Better luck throwing your mud elsewhere pal. :D :roll: :roll:

Whatever you say, Ronad. It was just a simple question. No need to get teste. You probably travelled all the way to GAY Pareee just because they "invited" you. Of course it had nothing to do with trying to sell your pee-pee test. I believe you......... really. :roll: :roll: :D

Yep-- No wonder Canada's cattle/beef industry is in the outhouse hole- with Canadian producers that have such "progressive" (:???: :roll: :lol: ) attitudes as that...

I'm starting to wonder if ol Ron, Cam, and rkaiser are the only ones in Canada that can see beyond the end of their noses...... :( :(

I know a bottom-feeder when I see/smell one Oldtimer......I wouldn't expect a die-hard R-Calfer/retired rent-a-cop,such as yourself, to be as observant. :D
 
You seem to think that Ron has to be ashamed for trying to make a living.... :roll:

How dare he try to market his product!
 

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