BSE Testing for Food Safety
- Thread starter Mike
- Start date
Help Support Ranchers.net:
HAY MAKER said:reader (the Second) said:Tam said:Tam,I find this rude remark uncalled for and insensitive,I believe you owe reader an apology,for being rude and insensitive.......reader has never been rude to you...........good luck
Well Haymaker you apologize for me as I, as a beef producer, find her implying that CJD is caused by eating beef very disturbing. She said herself "CJD and vCJD are not the same disease" followed up by "or at least what we know so far makes us think that" I'm sorry her husband died of CJD but she was the one that got after posters about rumors and how much harm they can do and here she is stating "which seems highly likely to be due to eating beef ". Seems highly likely is not proof of anything. It seems highly likely that comments like this could do alot of damage to an industry that millions make a living at. If her kids saw their dad died from CJD and and she makes statements like "which seems highly likely to be due to eating beef" No wonder they won't eat beef. You as a beef producer should be upset by anyone implying with no proof that Beef causes CJD. But you are just going after me as I won't apologize to you. :roll:
PORKER said:
The body is a strange and wonderful thing and I don't know why but Tell us Porker why are there EXPERTS that say they have NEVER found the BSE Prions in beef muscle meat. The only ones that seem to find them in muscle are those that inject BSE into a mouse.
Maple Leaf Angus
Well-known member
reader (the Second) said:
Some would say it was a short drive for you, Reader (the second).
Mike
Well-known member
Maple Leaf Angus said:
I feel like going for a ride myself sometimes MLA. Some people are like one of those little fiest dogs that's pulling on your pant's leg, every time you kick him he just comes back with the same damn worn out crap.
Maple Leaf Angus
Well-known member
reader (the Second) said:
Where was I attacking anyone, reader? I have nothing but sympathy for someone like yourself who has suffered through such a loss.
I also understand the anger and suffering of those who have suffered through another kind of loss, such as we have gone through here in the past two+ years.
How would you have felt if there would have been someone who was deliberately causing you the pain that you have experienced in the past, and everything you tried to do to alleviate it was just thwarted by that person?
I'm I wrong Reader about you stating " My kids saw their dad die of this terrible disease and my daughter won't eat any beef and my son will only eat organic". or "That your husband died of CJD"? or that you said that "CJD and vCJD are not the same disease, or at least what we know so far makes us think that." or "which seems highly likely to be due to eating beef ". When asked Did you provide any proof that CJD is caused by eating beef? No. I'm not confused or menopausal and I haven't had two glass of wine either. I just don't think beef producers can afford any more rumors to what eating BEEF causes when their is NO PROOF to backup statements like yours. I asked you to PROVE it and all you came back with is "it seems highly likely to be due to eating beef". That is not proof that is implying without proof. My post to Haymaker was to explain why I'm not apologizing to you as your statements could be damaging to the beef industry. Now you saying "I explained that my kids don't eat beef because of how they saw their dad die. At that point you should have kept your big mouth shut." I ask you if I would have shut my big month would you have clarified that eating beef is not what you husband died from. Talk about being rude. I'm sorry that your kids saw their dad die I have sympathy for them as I also had to watch my dad die of Cancer and if not eating beef makes them feel better then fine. But your comments about beef caused it without proof is damaging to an industry that many depend on for their livelyhood Lady. How many more producers have to lose everything including they lives to suicide before you will see that lies and un proven statements about the safety of beef is causing some of the dispair we in the industry live under.
All Canadians are bad because of one person big surprize you would join a organization that condemns all beef for one case of BSE.
And you Reader would rather play on the sympathy of others than prove your statement with facts.
Mike
Well-known member
Yea buddy! Like reader's gonna ruin the whole damn industry right by herself. :roll: :roll: :shock: :shock: 8)
Well Mike Canadians made the mistake of underestimating the power of what some claimed to only be a thorn in our sides so maybe we are a little more on egde when we hear somebody is spreading rumors about what Beef can cause. :roll: All we need is more rumors to destroy what consumer confidence we have been lucky enough to keep.
Mike
Well-known member
Tam said:
I'm sorry, I understand
Go ahead and be a complete &^*&$ so that you may keep and regain your consumer confidence. How thoughtless of me
"Very simple, Just put "BSE TESTED" on the label. And yes I do think that most consumers think that the USDA label means USA meat.
By the way, the newer tests are very accurate now. Just ask the USDA."
I am going with Mike on this one. Preception is Reality!!! If the food supplier advertises the deal right it will sell the product, BUT IT WILL ALSO SAY IN THE PAST THE BEEF SUPPLY MAY NOT BE SO SAFE????We have some real fickle consumers out there and I do not have a lot of faith in theirability to sort the wheat from the chaff. Remember these folks thing USDA Inspected means it was BORN AND RAISED IN THE USA :roll:
By the way, the newer tests are very accurate now. Just ask the USDA."
I am going with Mike on this one. Preception is Reality!!! If the food supplier advertises the deal right it will sell the product, BUT IT WILL ALSO SAY IN THE PAST THE BEEF SUPPLY MAY NOT BE SO SAFE????We have some real fickle consumers out there and I do not have a lot of faith in theirability to sort the wheat from the chaff. Remember these folks thing USDA Inspected means it was BORN AND RAISED IN THE USA :roll:
A
Anonymous
Guest
No reader, it is you that are the fool, clueless, incapable of logical thinking, and mean and you have just proven it again.
Let's recap this and see who blew the gasket and when shall we?
So you "BELIEVE" some cases could be spontaneous, you "BELIEVE" that the larger number of cases are feed related, and you can offer NO PROOF that anyone can contract CJD by eating beef yet that is exactly what you have implied with...........
Now where did your kids get the notion that they could die from CJD from eating beef if not from you???? Hmmmm????
To which Tam asks ........
A legitimate question. I too have concerns when someone implies that consumers can contract CJD from eating beef.
Without answering Tam's question, your response is............
Instead of answering the question, you snip at Tam for asking.
I'll ask you the same damn question and I don't care if you snip at me or play the sympathy card.
WHERE IS YOUR PROOF THAT ANYONE HAS CONTRACTED CJD or vCJD FROM EATING ANY BEEF LET ALONE BEEF FROM CATTLE LESS THAN 24 MONTHS OF AGE??????
BRING IT READER!!!!
You won't, you'll dance around it like you always do.
You suggest you agree with R-CALF. R-CALF's food safety concerns go as far as stopping Canadian imports. Only a complete idiot couldn't see that. Do you see their BSE "fear mongering" Washington adds now that BSE has been discovered in a domestic animal? Do you see them banning the slaughter of cows older than 30 months which Dennis McDonald had advocated if we had a dometic case of BSE?
It was all political bull to stop Canadian imports, nothing more.
R-CALF prohibited "Mandatory" traceback from "M"COOL because they didn't want to be burdened with traceback.
Some concern for food safety huh?
How you could buy into their hypocrisy when you have legitimate food safety concerns, is beyond me. R-CALF only agreed with you at a time when it fit their agenda to stop Canadian imports.
If they were truly concerned about food safety, they would be on Good Morning American telling consumers not to eat beef because they were at risk of contracting vCJD from eating beef now that we have found a domestic case of BSE. That's what they put in their Washington add.
WHERE IS THE CONSISTANCY IN R-CALF'S CONCERN FOR THE SAFETY OF OUR CONSUMERS NOW READER??????
Instead, R-CALF flip flops saying "we have the safest beef in the world" and "we have these firewalls in place" yada yada yada. They can't prove where Canada's BSE precautionary firewalls are any different than ours. If anything, Canada's precautionary measures are safer than ours.
These hypocrites used BSE to stop imports from Canada and now their tune has changed AND YOU CALL TAM CLUELESS AND INCAPABLE OF LOGICAL THINKING??????
Take a look in the mirror!
Like everyone else here, I sympahize with your loss but that doesn't give you the right to suggest that eating beef leads to vCJD WITHOUT PROOF.
You have no proof that vCJD is caused by eating beef yet that is what you have instilled into your kids.
If you want to error on the side of caution, with your kids, after the loss of your husband that's your business but that doesn't give you a free pass to speculate on the safety of our product here.
Go ahead, call me insensitive and uncaring during your loss because you can't handle the truth which is that there is no proof that vCJD is caused by eating beef.
Ironically, you are an advocate of testing cattle less than 24 months of age when it has been proven that BSE prions are not revealed in cattle under 24 months of age and few in cattle under 30 months of age.
So what the heck do you have to gain by eating BSE tested beef when....
#1. THERE IS NO PROOF THAT EATING BEEF LEADS TO vCJD.
#2 BSE TESTING OF CATTLE YOUNGER THAN 24 MONTHS OF AGE WILL NOT REVEAL BSE PRIONS.
Where the heck is the logic in that?
Even Creekstone's Fielding admitted that BSE testing of cattle less than 24 months of age would not assure that it was BSE free.
SO WHY WOULD YOU ADVOCATE A "PERCEPTION" OF FOOD SAFETY WHEN YOU ARE SUPPOSEDLY AN ADVOCATE OF FOOD SAFETY ??????
I'll let you sort it out!
No Reader, you are the one who is truly clueless here and incapable of logical thinking. Tam asks a legitimate question that you can't answer so you snip at her and call her mean.
If anone owes anyone an apology it would be you. FAT CHANCE HUH?
Now how about that proof that eating beef can lead to vCJD as you have your children believing????
Tick...tick...tick....tick....tick
~SH~
A
Anonymous
Guest
Reader: " And the fool on the hill ..."
......uses beef safety as her "scapegoat"
Nice diversion from a question that you cannot answer!
Keep spreading the fear!
~SH~
......uses beef safety as her "scapegoat"
Nice diversion from a question that you cannot answer!
Keep spreading the fear!
~SH~
bse-tester
Well-known member
There appears to be some heavy reliance on the statements being put forward here that indicate that the only way to provide "Safe Beef" is to remove all Specific Risk MAterials (SRM's) from the human food chain. Whereas this indeed does help, it does not mean that the animal from which they were taken is completely free of BSE. If we remove the spinal cord and associated tissues, the eyes, the brain and the lymphatic nodes and all the rest of the specified materials, what is left may be considered prion free - and, my friends, that is absolutely not true! Only a fool would make the assumption that the animal that can secrete prions with it urine, just like you and I do every day, will no longer have any prions in its system once the SRM's are removed. Consider this: The BSE Prion (PrPsc) moves through the entire body with the help of the blood system. It is carried through literally, the entire animal and simply manifests itself in certain areas in larger quantities than elsewhere. We find it in meat homogenate, in urine, in blood and in brain and also spinal fluids. The whole argument surrounding this magic date of 30 months has evolved from the incubation period and literally has been taken to mean something else entirely. It certainly means that an animal that has BSE will likely display symptoms post-30 months and not usually before. Having said that, the animal that is infected, may have acquired the BSE Prion well before the age of 30 months and should be considered as totally unfit for human consumption as the prion will simply pass to the human who may develop the variant strain of BSE we call nvCJD. The answers does indeed come to us through a strict testing program providing that the test is priced reasonably and yet, what price do we place on the lives of our families?? Tam, perhaps you can answer that without putting forth your conspiracy theories about what is a fraud or a sham? Not looking to upset you but to engage you in a good debate, so please do not take any personal offense as none is intended at all. This is why we have spent the last two years working hard to prove our test and now that we have, we are hoping to get it validated and the EFSA in Brussels has provided their support to us in a number of ways to help us do precisely that because we know our test can identify prion disease in urine, but we are being careful not to blow our horn too loud as yet, until we get it approved. Ron.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Ron, if the BSE prions are present in animals younger than 24 months of age but are undetectable with current testing methodology, what good is a BSE test on cattle younger than 24 months?
Are you suggesting that you have some new revolutionary test that will detect prions in cattle younger than 24 months of age that were previously undectable?
Second question, if we are testing all kinds of cattle over 30 months of age, where prions are more detectable, and not finding any positives other than the recent one, why should there be a concern for the safety of beef from cattle less than 30 months of age that were born well after the ruminant feed ban???
Sounds to me like someone sees a chance to make some money here with a BSE test that is "supposedly" better than previous tests on younger cattle.
Excuse my skepticism but you're going to have to prove your test's ability to detect prions in cattle younger than 24 months of age that other tests are not detecting because I have seen more than my share of "fast buck artists" that capitalize on any crisis. Kinda like selling bottled water to flood victims.
Hope that wasn't too candid for you.
~SH~
Mike
Well-known member
Ron,
I sincerely hope you have success in your endeavor to find prions at earlier ages in cattle, other food animals, and humans. This can make a big difference in the future of our livelihoods.
The potential to do so has been exhibited over and over with the newer testing methods developed in the last 2-5 years.
While some will be skeptical of anything new, without your type of entrepeneuralism we would still be back in the stone ages with the "Gold Standard" IHC test that we all know now to be highly subjective.
Your scathing comments to those that believe removal of SRM's is our only salvation, I fear, will only fall on deaf ears. Many here think that science is an exact profession and if it is not proven "without a doubt", it, therefore, is not valid.
Thank you for consulting with our group here and hope you will continue to do so in the future.
Mike Callis
Montgomery, Alabama
I sincerely hope you have success in your endeavor to find prions at earlier ages in cattle, other food animals, and humans. This can make a big difference in the future of our livelihoods.
The potential to do so has been exhibited over and over with the newer testing methods developed in the last 2-5 years.
While some will be skeptical of anything new, without your type of entrepeneuralism we would still be back in the stone ages with the "Gold Standard" IHC test that we all know now to be highly subjective.
Your scathing comments to those that believe removal of SRM's is our only salvation, I fear, will only fall on deaf ears. Many here think that science is an exact profession and if it is not proven "without a doubt", it, therefore, is not valid.
Thank you for consulting with our group here and hope you will continue to do so in the future.
Mike Callis
Montgomery, Alabama
bse-tester
Well-known member
To SH firstly: Our test has taken many years to perfect and has finally been proven to be an extremely sensitive and accurate test which can detect the presence of PrPsc (Scrapie-form Prion) in as little as 1ml of urine. The test doesn't care how old the donor of that urine is or whether or not it can do the Boston Two step. The test simply identifies whether or not the prion is present in the sample. Secondly, and I too hope I am not being too candid for you, one has to remember current and conventional science (tests) relies on the fact that the animal usually has presented some form of symptoms which in turn, indicates serious degenerative damage to the brain function thus causing the symptoms such as ataxia or shuddering and falling (downers). Consider this if you will; an animal which is hosting the infectious prion may well walk down the chute and appear to be perfectly normal as it goes to the kill floor. But it can still be harboring the infectious prion. Had the rancher chosen to keep that
animal for a month or a year longer, perhaps then it would have displayed the symptoms of being infected. MY argument here is that the animal, like a human infected with AIDs, may not display outwardly that it is a carrier. But it, like the human AIDS sufferer, is still infected. So I would ask if you would practice safe sex with an AIDS patient or not, since they apparently look normal?? Secondly, to repsond to your pointed remarks which went something like this : "Sounds to me like someone sees a chance to make some money here with a BSE test that is "supposedly" better than previous tests on younger cattle." All I can say to you is that we decided two years ago to not try to prove our test ourselves in our own labs, but to send it to one that would conduct the evaluation with an extremely independent viewpoint. THat lab was the United States National Prion Surveillance Center Laboratory, located at Case Western Reserve University, in Cleveland, Ohio. One of the world's most respected facilities. THey came back to us and said that our test not only works well, but with some of their scientific input, it can detect the presence of the infectious prion in samples that indicate that the prion is there long before any clinical symptoms have appeared.
Lastly, as for making money on this, you are damn right we will make money on this and for your information, approximately 75% of the profits will be going into further research for the identifaction of markers in diseases such as Alzheimers, Parkinsons, Hodgkins and so on and to the funding of "Post-Doctoral" studies in prion research. Yes, we are here to make money, but frankly, I resent tohe conotation that we are here to make money off the backs of Ranchers. We are here to help and we are working hard to get our test proven to the point of validation. So, "SH," if you wish to stay current with the world of science and the rest of us "Fast buck artists," as you so delicately referred to me, stay turned. We will try to provide some sanity to this BSE question and hopefully pursuade you that we are the good guys here, not the thieving bastards who wish to make money on the backs of those who risk their livelyhood each and every day on the farm. And SH, please do not believe all that the Feds are telling you about tests and BSE, and especially SRM's. They are still thinking in haphazrd ways and ely on old opinions that were formed back when BSE was still an unknown. I hope that was informing and not too candid. Ron.
animal for a month or a year longer, perhaps then it would have displayed the symptoms of being infected. MY argument here is that the animal, like a human infected with AIDs, may not display outwardly that it is a carrier. But it, like the human AIDS sufferer, is still infected. So I would ask if you would practice safe sex with an AIDS patient or not, since they apparently look normal?? Secondly, to repsond to your pointed remarks which went something like this : "Sounds to me like someone sees a chance to make some money here with a BSE test that is "supposedly" better than previous tests on younger cattle." All I can say to you is that we decided two years ago to not try to prove our test ourselves in our own labs, but to send it to one that would conduct the evaluation with an extremely independent viewpoint. THat lab was the United States National Prion Surveillance Center Laboratory, located at Case Western Reserve University, in Cleveland, Ohio. One of the world's most respected facilities. THey came back to us and said that our test not only works well, but with some of their scientific input, it can detect the presence of the infectious prion in samples that indicate that the prion is there long before any clinical symptoms have appeared.
Lastly, as for making money on this, you are damn right we will make money on this and for your information, approximately 75% of the profits will be going into further research for the identifaction of markers in diseases such as Alzheimers, Parkinsons, Hodgkins and so on and to the funding of "Post-Doctoral" studies in prion research. Yes, we are here to make money, but frankly, I resent tohe conotation that we are here to make money off the backs of Ranchers. We are here to help and we are working hard to get our test proven to the point of validation. So, "SH," if you wish to stay current with the world of science and the rest of us "Fast buck artists," as you so delicately referred to me, stay turned. We will try to provide some sanity to this BSE question and hopefully pursuade you that we are the good guys here, not the thieving bastards who wish to make money on the backs of those who risk their livelyhood each and every day on the farm. And SH, please do not believe all that the Feds are telling you about tests and BSE, and especially SRM's. They are still thinking in haphazrd ways and ely on old opinions that were formed back when BSE was still an unknown. I hope that was informing and not too candid. Ron.
Let's recap this and see who blew the gasket and when shall we?
I still very much appreciate the "puter lesson on cut and paste," SH.
That was pretty funny and as always, you have amazing ability to keep people going in a straight line, hopefully for many of their own sakes, in the right direction.
I too am very skeptical of a "make money during a very unfortunate event" scam. Not saying it's a scam, bse-tester, but you'll have to do all the work yourself on a product that is to be marketed to a highly emotional bunch of people, as I have said, many of which are quickly going broke. If your product is superior I imagine Wal-mart will have it on the shelves in no time.
Hey Mike, hand out a little more credit, there just may be some people that could single-handedly wipe out an entire industry.
And if you were to pair a few of them together...
Wow!
I still very much appreciate the "puter lesson on cut and paste," SH.
That was pretty funny and as always, you have amazing ability to keep people going in a straight line, hopefully for many of their own sakes, in the right direction.
I too am very skeptical of a "make money during a very unfortunate event" scam. Not saying it's a scam, bse-tester, but you'll have to do all the work yourself on a product that is to be marketed to a highly emotional bunch of people, as I have said, many of which are quickly going broke. If your product is superior I imagine Wal-mart will have it on the shelves in no time.
Hey Mike, hand out a little more credit, there just may be some people that could single-handedly wipe out an entire industry.
And if you were to pair a few of them together...
Wow!
Mike
Well-known member
I have one question about a urine test for cattle. Who's gonna stand behind her and wait for her to "give up a sample"?
You know she ain't gonna "give it up" when she wants to, It'll be when she gets ready. :???:
For "LIVE" testing that is.
You know she ain't gonna "give it up" when she wants to, It'll be when she gets ready. :???:
For "LIVE" testing that is.