Bull Business

[Northern Rancher]

You never know the other guys situation at least he was upfront and didn't just take the bull and not be able to pay for it. I had a longterm customer back out of a six figure deal with us due to BSE were still kind of digging out from that one. Had one major A'I contracr fold because of drought this year already-you make the best of it and move on. One thing I have zero tolerance for is guys whoring their cattle-a few times we had calves bought and the guys pimped them out before delivery-those kind of gypsies make me puke but luckily what goes around comes around.

 

[TSR]

I have had people stop checks/give me bad checks twice. These were people I didn't know personally. From now on, I either know you well enough to take a check or its cash. I'm glad my son was also in on one of these deals as it was a valuable lesson for him. Sad it has to be that way.

 

[Cowpuncher]

Another side of this issue----

We generally bought 5-7 bulls each spring from a purebred breeder.


We sorted through the bulls - some 150 - 200 in the pen. Carefully noted tag numbers of the bulls we liked. Then went to look at the EPD's. After making our selection , the breeder would separate those bulls from the herd and put them in a holding pen.

When they delivered them a few weeks later, one or two would be swapped out "because they failed a fertility test". It seemed always the nicest bulls were the ones that failed the test.

We finally concluded that another buyer came and took a shine to the same bulls and paid about double for them.

No proof, we know that some bulls strike out, but a lot of suspicions.

Anyway, we started buying bulls from a small breeder for about half the priced and got just as nice bulls.

 

[roger dodger]

Cowpuncher, maybe you can explain to me why some people will go to a big breeders sale and pay big bucks just to get a bull out of the middle of the sale when he could go to a smaller breeder and get into his best end and have a better bull for less money. I have never understood that. :cboy:

 

[loomixguy]

Bragging rights. They can be the topic of conversation at the local feed store or cafe. The extra money spent is well worth it to have their ego stroked.

 

[Hereford76]

Another side of this issue----

We generally bought 5-7 bulls each spring from a purebred breeder.


We sorted through the bulls - some 150 - 200 in the pen. Carefully noted tag numbers of the bulls we liked. Then went to look at the EPD's. After making our selection , the breeder would separate those bulls from the herd and put them in a holding pen.

When they delivered them a few weeks later, one or two would be swapped out "because they failed a fertility test". It seemed always the nicest bulls were the ones that failed the test.

We finally concluded that another buyer came and took a shine to the same bulls and paid about double for them.

No proof, we know that some bulls strike out, but a lot of suspicions.

Anyway, we started buying bulls from a small breeder for about half the priced and got just as nice bulls.

it has always amazed me the schemes some people come up with. I do business with a rancher that swears he had the same deal happen to him on a regular basis. I guess I don't even offer them before they are fertility tested.

When i was january calving selling yearling bulls in march (what the heck was i thinking) at our sale in chinook I used to guarantee the bulls for 3 seasons. I got stung three times. one time a guy lost 7 bulls in one night to lightning. the second was when i delivered my high selling bull to a good customer and i showed up at night with the bull. he backed me up to the gate and turned him out with about 20 yearling angus bulls he just had delivered and i can remember swallowing hard... sure enough the next morning he called to say the bull had got his back leg broke and he got every penny back cause i was out of bulls. the other was a fella that was scamming me for a long time. part of the guarantee was that if they salvaged the bull i would deduct that from what i owed them if they provided me with the sale slip so i could confirm the salvage. every year this certain guy said he would have a bull go backwards from foot rot (and they lived in an area where foot rot is a problem) and would haul them to chinook and can them. so every year before the sale he would give me the sale receipt that was usually $500 to 700 and i would give him credit for the difference. finally the family that runs bear paw livestock clued me in and said that this guy would haul a bull in and buy him right back for the 500 to 700 and take the credit from me - i haven't spoke to the guy since.

 

[Shortgrass]

This 'ol world has always had people who will honor their word, even if it hurts them, and people who will not honor their word, no mater what. If a man can't be trusted to do what he says verbaly, a signature will not make him trustworthy. If his situation soured, a better way to have handled it from his end, would be to call you and explain his problem to you the day he couldn't use the bulls. You done right, and if he can sleep with what he has done, you sure can sleep with what how you handled it. Just part of doing business even if it isn't the pleasant part. My grandma had a saying that has proven true for me. "Never trust nobody that don't trust nobody."

 

[CattleArmy]

No KOLA, I don't think we would do business. Besides yours are the wrong color. I try to look for the good in people.

You are gonna miss out on some pretty impressive black angus genetics. We've done embryo transfer work for one of the producers that now Ankony owns the herd.

 

[katrina]

No KOLA, I don't think we would do business. Besides yours are the wrong color. I try to look for the good in people.

You are gonna miss out on some pretty impressive black angus genetics. We've done embryo transfer work for one of the producers that now Ankony owns the herd.

Roger and his family have some of the best polled hereford cattle around.... No need for angus genetics there........
Seen Jay at the Pizza Ranch...... Wow what a nice young man.. He said he would be done at the bull station the first of July and would need a job till school starts. If you don't need him send him our way........
See ya Sunday at Dawn Dales................

 

[roger dodger]

loomixguy, I don't know about you but I get payed by selling the most pounds for the least cost, not by getting my ego stroked I buy herd bulls that have the traits I need for my cows and what my customers need to the best of my knowledge. Not by where they come from. :cboy:

 

[loomixguy]

That was my point....... My satire was poorly put together. I have customers who travel hundreds of miles and spend large amounts of money to buy bulls when they could travel 10 miles and spend 60% less and bring home better bulls. But then they're not the topic of conversation at the coffee shop.

I also have customers who travel and bring home exceptional animals. Guess it all depends on what a man wants to accomplish with his herd. Some are farmers with cattle and some are cattlemen who also do some farming. And a very few are doing an outstanding job at both.

 

[Silver]

That was my point....... My satire was poorly put together. I have customers who travel hundreds of miles and spend large amounts of money to buy bulls when they could travel 10 miles and spend 60% less and bring home better bulls. But then they're not the topic of conversation at the coffee shop.

I also have customers who travel and bring home exceptional animals. Guess it all depends on what a man wants to accomplish with his herd. Some are farmers with cattle and some are cattlemen who also do some farming. And a very few are doing an outstanding job at both.

It seems you seldom see a farmer that is just out standing his field.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

I sold 4 bulls last year to some folks. Two went to the sister and two to the brother. The sister had to ship one after a late season injury but they have been really happy with the calves/. The brother used his along with another bull and he blames all his troubles on my bulls even though he doesn't know who bred who. The mother is also running her own herd had bull troubles last year so needed to buy a new bull this year. She figured i was to far away at 140 miles so bought one off her neighbor. It's so high headed they can't get it loaded to haul to the cows. When they picked it up it was already in the tub and the fellow that sold it asked if it had settled down for them yet. :shock:
For what they paid I would have delivered a tested bull to their pasture the day they needed it. Guess the good deal I gave last year wasn't appreciated. :?

 

[Hay Feeder]

I had a good customer that has bought bulls from me for three years. When I priced the bulls for some unknown reason he thought they should be cheaper than what he had been paying. He went some where else and found a cheaper one I think of even a diiferent breed to save $100 or so.

A new cattle breeder of another breed had been advertising virgin 2 and 3 year olds he had been feeding for a while.

 

[Faster horses]

We used to buy our Angus bulls from a fairly small breeder that was very particular with what he bred and what he sold. He knew his cattle really well. We were always just tickled with what we bought from him. Son started selling the bulls and since we had always been happy, we started dealing with the son. That turned into a different story altogether.
First thing he did was bring us a bull that we didn't buy. He convinced us he was looking out for us...so we let it go.

Next year he sent us his bull sheet and I talked with him extensiviely about a yearling bull he said belonged to his dad. They wanted $5000 for this particular bull--we were tempted but we didn't buy him because we weren't spending that kind of money on bulls.

Then a lady rancher
from Wyoming called us and wanted to know where we bought our bulls. I told her and she went to look at these bulls and some others around Montana. When she got home, she called and told us that she liked this person's bulls the best of all she looked at. She bought 6 head from him. Then she went on to ask me what I thought about the bull that belonged to the dad that they were asking $3500 for.

I was shocked and said, "that bull was not priced to us at $3500 or we would have bought him. He was priced to us at $5000."
Mad as hell, I called the son and asked him what was the deal, why was the bull priced two ways. He hemmed and hawwed and finally said, "well, she bought 6 bulls and you do what you have to do." I reminded him that without our recommendation that buyer would not have even known about his bulls and that we had bought A LOT of bulls from them over the years. (Now make no mistake, the son was handling the deal, the bull was in his possession and the father was not around, so I do not blame anyone but the son.) The woman from Wyoming did not buy that bull and I knew that when she called as she said she did not.

The next year the son has his first sale; and the bull was in the sale as a 2 year old. I found out that he invited some 'big dogs' to the sale and PAID them to buy this bull for $10,000!!!!! I didn't know things like that happened...but anyway, he
obviously had big plans for this bull. A friend of ours called the next year and he saw the bull at Denver (as a 3 year old) and told us he was HUGE. A very big bull.

Semen was offered on this bull but his BW went up and up to over +6 the last time I looked.

And the rest of the story is...this individual bull is on the list for Curly Calf Syndrome.

What goes around comes around. Sometimes you just have to wait.

 

[BRG]

That type of business is never good. I can see him dropping the price a little as they purchased several bulls at once, but instead of doing it the way he did, he should have given a 5 or 10% discount on the group instead of just the one.

What do you meanby, "he paid someone to buy this bull". I am not sure you mean the same thing as what we do, but we have sale reps that come in and buy bulls for ranchers(mainly commercial) who can't come to the sale, we pay them a commission on what they buy. I do it for other breeders as well, as part of my sale management and consulting business.

Honesty is the only policy, and it never pays to be sneaky!

 

[Hay Feeder]

We used to buy our Angus bulls from a fairly small breeder that was very particular with what he bred and what he sold. He knew his cattle really well. We were always just tickled with what we bought from him. Son started selling the bulls and since we had always been happy, we started dealing with the son. That turned into a different story altogether.
First thing he did was bring us a bull that we didn't buy. He convinced us he was looking out for us...so we let it go.

Next year he sent us his bull sheet and I talked with him extensiviely about a yearling bull he said belonged to his dad. They wanted $5000 for this particular bull--we were tempted but we didn't buy him because we weren't spending that kind of money on bulls.

Then a lady rancher
from Wyoming called us and wanted to know where we bought our bulls. I told her and she went to look at these bulls and some others around Montana. When she got home, she called and told us that she liked this person's bulls the best of all she looked at. She bought 6 head from him. Then she went on to ask me what I thought about the bull that belonged to the dad that they were asking $3500 for.

I was shocked and said, "that bull was not priced to us at $3500 or we would have bought him. He was priced to us at $5000."
Mad as hell, I called the son and asked him what was the deal, why was the bull priced two ways. He hemmed and hawwed and finally said, "well, she bought 6 bulls and you do what you have to do." I reminded him that without our recommendation that buyer would not have even known about his bulls and that we had bought A LOT of bulls from them over the years. (Now make no mistake, the son was handling the deal, the bull was in his possession and the father was not around, so I do not blame anyone but the son.) The woman from Wyoming did not buy that bull and I knew that when she called as she said she did not.

The next year the son has his first sale; and the bull was in the sale as a 2 year old. I found out that he invited some 'big dogs' to the sale and PAID them to buy this bull for $10,000!!!!! I didn't know things like that happened...but anyway, he
obviously had big plans for this bull. A friend of ours called the next year and he saw the bull at Denver (as a 3 year old) and told us he was HUGE. A very big bull.

Semen was offered on this bull but his BW went up and up to over +6 the last time I looked.

And the rest of the story is...this individual bull is on the list for Curly Calf Syndrome.

What goes around comes around. Sometimes you just have to wait.

A just priced a herd bull Friday at a show the boy (back eastern breeder) said he would like $5000 for him. About 4 hours later I went back to try to buy the bull he changed the price to 7500 as some one else liked him also.
I called back two days later they changed the price to 7500 for half interest IF no one else offered more in the next three months when this calf would be a yearling. What a deal I was not going to pay 5000 unless I had a partner in him anyway.

I sell just a few bulls a year. I am sure if someone was writing a check for a bull for the price I told them then told them I needed more on the same day I would get my --- stomped.

And yes what goes around comes around when I got home did a computer search on his ped. He had no epds sire or dam and was a double bred 1680 off the paper from what I orginally read.

 

[Anonymous]

What do you meanby, "he paid someone to buy this bull".

Honesty is the only policy, and it never pays to be sneaky!

I know the breeder FH is talking about- and his herd did go all to hell when he went "bigger, better, faster" and tried to wheel and deal in the shadows of the Montana angus mafia..

BRG- shes talking of the practice of getting a couple of folks to come to your sale- bid your bull up and buy it for $10,000 or $20,000 for half interest - then you in return go to their sale and return the favor and bid their bull up to $10,000 to $20,000- and no money really switches hand-- but both of you then have interest in two bulls that you have bragging rights on that you bought as the top $20,000 selller of such and such sale- so you can create emotion and commotion with your ads and get some semen pimp to market semen for you...

 

[alabama]

Prehapes y'all should come to Alabama to buy bulls. We have a lot of goob bulls down here that don't sell near that high.

Here are some fair ones.

Angus

AAA number--------205 day-----ratio
16285300 ----------696 --------- 99
16285304 ----------707-------- 100
16285307 --------- 699-------- 99
16285308 --------- 710-------- 101
16308897 --------- 715-------- 101

 

[krt966]

I have seen a few of the instances myself. Luckily I havent been caught up in any of them. Did have one fella try to run me down on a Bull one time but I just went ahead and put him in the freezer and he called back about a month later and tried to lo-ball me. I told him that bull was no longer on the sale list because he is now a grille special. He flew thru the roof but then I really poured gas on the fire by offering him 1/2 a freezer beef.This bull has an excellent taste,and alos very tender..One thing I have learned from this experience. If you wouldnt eat him,dont offer him for sale. everyone needs to rember that beef on the plate is the end product.