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Calf killing coyotes

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Relax NR. The guvment gives it to us. Besides, only thing I ever hurt with Timek (besides coyotes) was a little bay mare once.

She didn't make it 5 feet. :wink:

No problem with eagles either, we shot them years ago.
 
Heres more on our eastern Montana wolf- picture of a kill site:

http://www.billingsgazette.net/articles/2006/03/17/news/state/20-sheep.txt
 
Well, they FINALLY had the guts (no pun intended) to put pictures of the torn-up sheep on the front page of The Billings Gazette. Will wonders never cease?

Several years back in W. Montana the folks that bought our place had a pair of wolves come right into the corrals and kill a bottle calf. Then we all found out that area is a designated "Wolf Recovery Area." The wolves were transplanted there and no one was told a thing about it until this happened. Ed Bangs was the 'wolf man' at the time.

The woman and girl were outside when the wolves were there. They were very scared and lucky they weren't attacked as well. ('Course we all know wolves don't attack people, right?). Anyway, they brought the helicoptor in and got the wolves. That story also made the Billings Gazette.

I just talked to a former neighbor from there today and they figure there are 10 wolves around and have gotten some calves in that area. They are seen around ranch buildings and folks are worried about their kids going to the school buses.
 
Faster Horses-- You need to go to the article site today and see all the comments- below the article-- a few from greenies, but mostly from rancher supporters....I see where two I know from up here commented and signed their whole names- one is a neighbor who runs his cows a couple miles down the creek from me -- I'll have to buy him one of his Uncle Mikes Lemonades for that......
 
I'm not sure what the law is now, but back when I lived at home maybe 20 years ago. You could kill all the coyotes you wanted. I packed a rifle baling hay at night, didn't get very many from the baler, but I did with the head lights of the pick-up I did. Mountain lions were another story, you couldn't shoot unless you see them in the act of attacking your stock & then you were authorized to kill them. Reading that story just posted from the BillingsGazette I'm not sure I could keep from killing a wolf that is in the act of killing my stock.
Is this the way it is now with wolves, you have to wait tell the Government tells you it's ok to shoot even when your stock is being actacked?
from BillingsGazette: Since then, ranchers who have lost livestock in the recent attacks have been given short-term permits to shoot wolves on sight. Under federal rules enacted last year, those who see wolves in the act of attacking their animals are authorized to kill them.


Right now my folks run on winter range from November - May. I just got off the phone with my Mom & they haven't had a problem with coyotes out there, but they have had two cows hit on the highway that has cattle guards on each end & signs posted Open Range. As I'm sure some of you know when you hit a cow on a highway that is on open range and posted Open Range, you buy the cow.

Back in 2001 I remember reading about Idaho's lawsuit to stop the federal government's plan to reintroduce grizzly bears.
That lead me to find Ingalls Predator Pages here you can read about Ingalls fight with Game and Fish & Ingalls WY G&F lawsuit.

Wolf and Coyote attacks Including Grizzly and bobcat Attacks

I just did a search and found theseVoracious predators make it tough for Wyoming rancher Dan Ingalls

Handling grizzlies: How much is enough?

Paul
 
Open Range in Montana you don't buy the cow UNLESS it is proven that you are negligent.

They tried to get the law changed and maybe did get it changed, but we had enough lawmakers on the side of the rancher and today you are not liable unless proven negligent. Our Senator Keith Bales helped alot getting this law back to more of the original version.

Just had this conversation with a professional fencer this very day.
 
Faster horses said:
Open Range in Montana you don't buy the cow UNLESS it is proven that you are negligent.

They tried to get the law changed and maybe did get it changed, but we had enough lawmakers on the side of the rancher and today you are not liable unless proven negligent. Our Senator Keith Bales helped alot getting this law back to more of the original version.

Just had this conversation with a professional fencer this very day.

FH:

You're lucky to have Keith represent you....IMHO he's truly a great guy and top notch individual. He sure does a lot for those with Federal Lands as a part of their operations through his efforts on the Public Lands Council.

Cheers---

TTB :wink:
 
Hopefully these guys will be able to get something done for all of us.

Ranchers, outfitters crying wolf
By SUSAN GALLAGHER - Associated Press Writer - 03/18/06
Wildlife agency draws criticism over delisting


HELENA — People claiming wolves have the upper hand in Montana, attacking livestock and wildlife, accused the state wildlife agency Friday of not doing enough to get wolves removed from the list of federally protected species so that Montana will have more control over them.

''We already have more wolves than we need,'' Sen. Dan McGee, R-Laurel, said at a meeting of the Montana Environmental Quality Council, on which he serves.

McGee joined outfitters and ranchers in contending that the Montana Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks should be working harder to advance wolves' removal from the list of animals protected under the Endangered Species Act.

Outfitter Bill Hoppe of Gardiner, a Yellowstone gateway, said that area of Montana used to be rich with wildlife but has become ''a predator pit.''

Robert Fanning said his Friends of the Northern Yellowstone Elk Herd has tried to advance the so-called delisting of wolves. Fanning said he finds ''a greater chance that (Playboy Playmate) Anna Nicole Smith will join a convent,'' than that Fish, Wildlife and Parks will work vigorously on the wolves' status.
Bob Lane, a lawyer for the agency, said in an interview that its staff is working within a federal framework to advance delisting of wolves and must do so in a way that is defensible legally. The work takes time, and that frustrates some people, Lane said.

The criticism came after Fish, Wildlife and Parks officials gave the Environmental Quality Council an update about wolves in the state, focusing on the Legislature's call for progress toward delisting.

Speakers included Carolyn Sime, wolf program coordinator for Fish, Wildlife and Parks, who was in Circle early this week to follow up on reports of dozens of livestock deaths in that part of the state — deaths ranchers blame on a wolf or wolf hybrid. To the extent that regulations allow, Sime said, some ranchers have been given permission to kill the animal.

Responding to complaints that a pilot in the area has seen it, was prepared to kill it and remains willing to do so but lacks permission, Sime said he does not meet the criteria for persons authorized to use ''lethal control.''

''These people are very concerned, very emotional and they're trying to do the right thing'' by not taking wolf control into their own hands unlawfully, said Republican Rep. Jim Peterson of Buffalo, a rancher and former executive vice president of the Montana Stockgrowers Association. ''I also have to tell you they're running out of patience'' and may lean toward ''introducing some self-help.''

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service considers wolves in Montana, Idaho and Wyoming biologically recovered. An estimated 1,020 wolves roamed the region at the end of 2005, according to state and federal wildlife figures, with Montana alone having 256. The federal agency has indicated its willingness to move toward delisting.

For that to happen, though, each of the three states must have a management plan approved by the Fish and Wildlife Service. Montana and Idaho have them — both now handle day-to-day wolf management duties in their states — but the federal government has rejected Wyoming's plan. That move is being litigated.

''Wyoming is holding us up,'' Mike Volesky, an adviser to Montana Gov. Brian Schweitzer, told the Environmental Quality Council.

Assistant Attorney General Candace West said the Bush administration's selection of Idaho Gov. Dirk Kempthorne this week to become Interior secretary stands to advance the delisting.

''Hopefully, Secretary Kempthorne will answer Gov. Kempthorne's and Gov. Schweitzer's request to expedite the delisting,'' West said.
http://www.helenair.com/articles/2006/03/18/montana_top/a01031806_01.txt
 
Sorry Faster horses I wasn't very clear. I'll try again.

The highway on our winter range if a car hits a cow on that road the owner of the car or that person buys the cow. Most if not all turn it over to there insurance, but like all insurance company's they don't want to pay. There is a lawyer that helps the rancher get his money for the cow & the calf she had or was about to have. My folks haven't had any cows hit on that road in a long time, then this year they had three hit just sense they put them out on the winter range Nov. 2005.

Also I talked to my Dad tonight & he said the game man up there have been flying over and killing 40 to 50 a day this winter. A trapper said he took 50 of our ranch last week.

Paul
 
Routes of exposure: aldicarb is directly toxic through oral, dermal, and inhalation; it is toxic when plants systemically exposed are consumed and secondary poisoning occurs when exposed prey items, such as insects, rodents, and birds, are consumed by preators and scavengers.

Aldicarb is very highly toxic to birds and other organisms. Aldicarb is persistent and may remain in soils and plant material over the entire growing cycle.

Aldicarb is highly soluble in water and highly mobile in soil, making it a pesticide of concern for ground and surface water contamination.

Aldicarb has been shown to be mutagenic in human peripheral lymphocytes (white blood cells) assays. Aldicarb exposure in vitro led to an increase in the number of chromatid and chromosome breaks. A positive dose response was noted in relating the amount of aldicarb to the degree of chromosome damage.

Aldicarb is a suspected endocrine disrupter.




OH YEH this is something you want to be lacing up carcasses with LOL! I can't believe some people would even think about using a restricted use pesticide against the label with such irreguard for secondary posioning!!! I wouldn't be SOO concerned with local goverenment but the USDA APHIS and how much they would fine you and not to mention lawsuits to recoup damages from dead domestices or wildlife, better yet a few golden eagles would rack up a bill in quite a hurry I'm sure. Now I know why people from the DEEP South can get such a bad wrap! Use your head!!!!

Coyote control is best achieved when you use a varity of tools and not depend on 1 tool too much, traps, snares, calling and m-44's are all great and legal tools. The more you know and understand coyote habits the better off one can be at resolving problems in a timely manner. Comming into the Spring and summer you want to get the offending coyotes first and foremost to stop livestock depredation with the least amount of loss.

As far as strict restrictions, coyotes can be trapped around baits and with good lures and good setting techniques you can catch them on the way into bait stations from 30 ft to 100's of yards away, also one can use m-44's in the same manner as long as the rules are followed, not state rules but mandated by the federal government.

I would urge all to disreguard the writings of our good buddy from ALABAMA to save you time, headache and a possible wopper of a fine.
 
I don't blame you one bit there trapper. If I had a vested interest in ridding coyotes for my livelihood, I wouldn't go along with people getting rid of coyotes on their own either.
 
LOL Funny Mike, I think there are plenty of other methods out their to kill coyotes effectively than to take the lazy and illegal methods and run with them willy nilly all over the countryside with no reguard for your neighbors or wildlife as a whole.

If anyone would like to know more on how to control their coyotes on there own through trapping,snaring,calling etc, just ask. I am confidant in my abilitys as a ADC trapper and I gladly show many kids and adults on how to go about killing coyotes. With methods that work and are very effective and are law abiding. The future of the sport of fur trapping and calling rest with them.

Mike why did we do away with 1080?
 
Knock on wood, we haven't lost an animal to a coyote yet. I know we have them, hear them yippin at night. While I've been here in Iraq my wife shot two of them one afternoon. Being in Maine with more woods then pastureland/fields I don't know if they don't bother because they get plenty of food from the woods or what.
There is one other factor that may have something to do with why we haven't had problems. The farm we bought our foundation animals from in VT had a coyote come after one of their Hereford's calf. Who says you need horns, the momma cow pounded the sucker into the ground and killed it.
 
Ben H said:
Knock on wood, we haven't lost an animal to a coyote yet. I know we have them, hear them yippin at night. While I've been here in Iraq my wife shot two of them one afternoon. Being in Maine with more woods then pastureland/fields I don't know if they don't bother because they get plenty of food from the woods or what.
There is one other factor that may have something to do with why we haven't had problems. The farm we bought our foundation animals from in VT had a coyote come after one of their Hereford's calf. Who says you need horns, the momma cow pounded the sucker into the ground and killed it.

BenH---welcome to the boards, sir!!! something tells me that you have some stories to tell us, being in Iraq!! Don't know what your ranking is, but you have my utmost respect and honor!! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
 
Mike why did we do away with 1080?
Back when Nixion was President.
A few abused 1080 instead of puting out 1 oz baits that kill a coyote or canine but not enought to kill other spieces. ie 18 oz to kill a egale.
people were lacing whole carrcases and not cutting out baits. So a few egale died and the best slective bait for canines was taken away.
 
Bingo Codywy, secondary posioning was a main concern and also the fact that cats are also highly suceptable to this as well, not just domestics but bobcats as well. The mentality of a little is good and more is better hurt the 1080 baiting as well as more than a few non targets killed along the way. Also the last few years of use the coyotes in areas were documented as starting to leave the bait stations alone and the effectiveness was going away. To much of a single tool useage over along time spand in areas will lead to some avoidance. I guess the reasoning for more and bigger baits and the downfall of over use and abuse.
 
ranchwife said:
BenH---welcome to the boards, sir!!! something tells me that you have some stories to tell us, being in Iraq!! Don't know what your ranking is, but you have my utmost respect and honor!! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

I'm a Specialist, only a few points away from Sergeant
 

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