DiamondSCattleCo
Well-known member
Big Muddy rancher said:
He doesn't even have to do that. All he needs to do is what dozens of his peers have done and have someone custom feed his animals. There are no restrictions on doing so.
Rod
He doesn't even have to do that. All he needs to do is what dozens of his peers have done and have someone custom feed his animals. There are no restrictions on doing so.
Rod
jdst
Active member
OldTimer...
Two items on that:
1) It is being done both ways. In Canada the same sort of thing is being done. Imported meat is put in "Product of Canada" boxes. In both countries it is illegal. If, as you say, it is getting a USDA stamp, that's a step up, criminally speaking, to a Federal crime in your country. Any evidence of such forgery you have should be reported to your local FBI office.
2) One CAN prove different!! We are just as supportive of our producers as US consumers. One of my local supermarkets had meat labelled with little maple leaves and "Cut from AAA or AA Canadian beef". (That's our way of saying Choice and Select I think.) I called the meat manager on it. Told him I had picked up four or five packages and frozen them and was sending them for DNA testing to determine the true source of the meat. He called his head office, they called me. They called the distributor, who also called me. They get their meat from three places - they didn't say which, but there is only Cargill, Lakeside (Tyson), and XL Foods (no relation to Excel). They asked me to hold off while they got letters from their suppliers. Two refused and the third would only say "...from livestock slaughtered in a federally inspected facility in Canada." That's 'cause their plant is all culls - mystically grading high!
Three days after I started this, the labels were gone.
What I am saying is: Put your effort where your mouth is. If you think meat is being relabelled to hide it's source, step up to the plate and challenge the people doing it. Don't bench at other producers.
There's another way of looking at this, you know. One could say, the US meat industry is riding the coattails of Canadian producers who are able to provide the quality consumers want at a lower price than their American counterparts. Are you greedy or just inefficient?
Big Banks, Big Oil, Big Food and the WTO - the real 'Axis of Evil'
Two items on that:
1) It is being done both ways. In Canada the same sort of thing is being done. Imported meat is put in "Product of Canada" boxes. In both countries it is illegal. If, as you say, it is getting a USDA stamp, that's a step up, criminally speaking, to a Federal crime in your country. Any evidence of such forgery you have should be reported to your local FBI office.
2) One CAN prove different!! We are just as supportive of our producers as US consumers. One of my local supermarkets had meat labelled with little maple leaves and "Cut from AAA or AA Canadian beef". (That's our way of saying Choice and Select I think.) I called the meat manager on it. Told him I had picked up four or five packages and frozen them and was sending them for DNA testing to determine the true source of the meat. He called his head office, they called me. They called the distributor, who also called me. They get their meat from three places - they didn't say which, but there is only Cargill, Lakeside (Tyson), and XL Foods (no relation to Excel). They asked me to hold off while they got letters from their suppliers. Two refused and the third would only say "...from livestock slaughtered in a federally inspected facility in Canada." That's 'cause their plant is all culls - mystically grading high!
Three days after I started this, the labels were gone.
What I am saying is: Put your effort where your mouth is. If you think meat is being relabelled to hide it's source, step up to the plate and challenge the people doing it. Don't bench at other producers.
There's another way of looking at this, you know. One could say, the US meat industry is riding the coattails of Canadian producers who are able to provide the quality consumers want at a lower price than their American counterparts. Are you greedy or just inefficient?
Big Banks, Big Oil, Big Food and the WTO - the real 'Axis of Evil'
DiamondSCattleCo
Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
I call it protectionist because I know exactly what will happen: Guys like OT will utilize the label as a marketing ploy. And it won't be: Buy US Beef Cause Its Better, It'll be: Don't buy Canadian Beef because its unsafe!
I even strongly suspect that RCalf will jump on that bandwagon, given the organizations' anti-Canadian stance on all things beef related.
Rod
A
Anonymous
Guest
DiamondSCattleCo said:
Actually Rod- Big Muddy-- I'm kind of glad for your protectionist subsidy law...It probably saved me a big chunk of money...This was just before the Canadians found Mad Cow (in about 1999-2000) we were trying to get this Canuck place and if it had been possible, we'd have got stuck with a bunch of worthless diseased cattle.... Actually worked out for the best...
Jason
Well-known member
Talk about calling BS.
First, those three places are the biggest but not the only players.
Second, all three of those plants kill fed cattle so graded beef from any of them is expected.
Third, if the labels did disappear, the "fraud" would be from the retailer. They do have the option of selling labeled and them switching to no label product, and that might seem tricky but isn't fraud as long as the signs are taken down.
Graded beef is graded by federal CFIA employees not packer employees. There is no incentive to misgrade animals from a third party inspector.
What would DNA test prove anyway? It isn't like a US gene exists. You would only be able to prove the beef came from cattle.
Sometimes a little education is all that is needed.
First, those three places are the biggest but not the only players.
Second, all three of those plants kill fed cattle so graded beef from any of them is expected.
Third, if the labels did disappear, the "fraud" would be from the retailer. They do have the option of selling labeled and them switching to no label product, and that might seem tricky but isn't fraud as long as the signs are taken down.
Graded beef is graded by federal CFIA employees not packer employees. There is no incentive to misgrade animals from a third party inspector.
What would DNA test prove anyway? It isn't like a US gene exists. You would only be able to prove the beef came from cattle.
Sometimes a little education is all that is needed.
DiamondSCattleCo
Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
<chuckle> I get a kick out of you OT. Restrictions on Canadian ownership of land within the US far surpasses any restrictions that Canada has on foreign ownership. You may want to check facts before yipping, because all you're doing is coming across as a hypocrite. If you hadn't tried to buy land, but rather just had someone custom graze for you, it would have been just fine.
Rod
A
Anonymous
Guest
jdst said:
jdst
Active member
Jason:
I am quite aware there are more than three packers in Western Canada. BUT there are only three who supply the large supermarkets their basic meat, and I named them.
I am also aware only CFIA stamps meat. Interestingly, now that our processes are being "harmonized" with the USDAs, I have been told by former employees the inspectors at the larger facilities do a carcass every 8 seconds.
DNA testing can prove lineage, and was basically a bluff. It is possible, though very expensive and time consuming to do it. On the other hand, if one were suspicious and followed the trail backwards using more traditional investigative approaches, using DNA to prove it would be practical and inexpensive.
I am quite aware there are more than three packers in Western Canada. BUT there are only three who supply the large supermarkets their basic meat, and I named them.
I am also aware only CFIA stamps meat. Interestingly, now that our processes are being "harmonized" with the USDAs, I have been told by former employees the inspectors at the larger facilities do a carcass every 8 seconds.
DNA testing can prove lineage, and was basically a bluff. It is possible, though very expensive and time consuming to do it. On the other hand, if one were suspicious and followed the trail backwards using more traditional investigative approaches, using DNA to prove it would be practical and inexpensive.
Big Muddy rancher
Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Oldtimer how does trying to make sure our province doesn't become vacant with only visits from absentee landlords work into a " protectionist subsidy law.."? It was put in place the help ensure out small towns remained viable. It didn't work that well but at least it didn't have the effect that your CRP program did in emptying out the country side.
It also helped curb the effects of NGO conservationist from buying up Sask. and idleing it for ducks and buffalo.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Big Muddy rancher said:
Looks to me like any law to keep Agricultural land out of the hands of non Canadians would have to be considered "protectionist"- and any law that works to keep Agricultural land cheap so the Canadian citizen producer has a better chance at succeeding is a "subsidy"....Not really a shining example of open and free trade :wink:
Jason
Well-known member
Actually the Sask law has made land more expensive there.
If Albertans or others could buy a 1/4 or 1/2 at a time and not live there, lots of us would be buying cheap land as it comes up. The land would either sit idle or be rented cheap until enough was bought at a cheaper price to make it viable either to farm or haul cows to pasture.
The way it sits, large enough parcels have to be bought now to make the immediate move. To get the larger parcels raises the price per acre.
I know of land selling for $300 and acre or less if you can pick off a 1/4 here or there. The larger places are bringing $400-$600 per acre.
If Albertans or others could buy a 1/4 or 1/2 at a time and not live there, lots of us would be buying cheap land as it comes up. The land would either sit idle or be rented cheap until enough was bought at a cheaper price to make it viable either to farm or haul cows to pasture.
The way it sits, large enough parcels have to be bought now to make the immediate move. To get the larger parcels raises the price per acre.
I know of land selling for $300 and acre or less if you can pick off a 1/4 here or there. The larger places are bringing $400-$600 per acre.
Sandhusker
Well-known member
DiamondSCattleCo said:
What's stopping you from using a Canadian label from marketing? If you think it is a good product, all you need to do is communicate that to consumers. You convince them to buy Canadian, and BINGO, there it is in the store.
Look Bill, he claims Canadian beef is a "cut above the rest". If he believes that is true, why doesn't he tell the consumers that?
Any marketing can go both ways.
S.S.A.P.
Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
What's the matter OT - don't like having your own words used against you? :wink: It also show that you are the one with "fantasy fixation".
A
Anonymous
Guest
S.S.A.P. said:
SSAP- You have not shown anything- Every one of the statements you are copying and pasting are true....Canada is/ has been riding on the shirttails of the industry the US cattle producer built and are afraid to stand alone...Even in the post above Rod admits that Canada is afraid to openly and fairly compete - so instead you have had to count on fraud and deception in order to market your product....Sad... Sad
Big Muddy rancher
Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
So why do you bench about ranches being bought up and idled for hunting reserves for the wealthy. Would you like something done or do you just like to bench :!:
S.S.A.P.
Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Just like a chronic bloater .... doesn't matter what you give him he continues to blow-up :wink:
He's so anti-Canadian he can't even think straight anymore.
Sandhusker
Well-known member
SSAP, "He's so anti-Canadian he can't even think straight anymore."
That disease must be somewhat of a species jumper. There is a severe mental malady here with some being so anti- R-CALF that they can't think straight and lose all ability to reason. It has even been reported in South Dakota and Denver, Colorado.
That disease must be somewhat of a species jumper. There is a severe mental malady here with some being so anti- R-CALF that they can't think straight and lose all ability to reason. It has even been reported in South Dakota and Denver, Colorado.
jdst
Active member
You guys are just gonna keep at it until we're all sucked in to that nationalistic drivel thing, aren't you?
Well, here goes:
OT:
Until the 1970's Canada was proud to be the only country ever to have squashed the US in a war. Then came the Vietnamese, and soon even the bloody Iraqis will be in that camp. So there goes our military market differentiation.
SSAP:
You're in Saskatchewan. I'll listen to everything you say on wheat. No, wait, you're also in Canada, so I'll only listen if you speak of winter wheat.
Everyone on the planet knows there are three types of beef:
In reality, guys (and ladies) "What's your beef?" And if you people don't straighten up I'm going to get controversial.
(Help me, help me. I don't know which smiley face to use!)
Well, here goes:
OT:
Until the 1970's Canada was proud to be the only country ever to have squashed the US in a war. Then came the Vietnamese, and soon even the bloody Iraqis will be in that camp. So there goes our military market differentiation.
SSAP:
You're in Saskatchewan. I'll listen to everything you say on wheat. No, wait, you're also in Canada, so I'll only listen if you speak of winter wheat.
Everyone on the planet knows there are three types of beef:
Kobe beef - Rolls Royce eating at Aircraft prices;
Alberta Beef - Rolls Royce eating at Chevrolet prices; and
Other beef - not worth eating at any price.
In reality, guys (and ladies) "What's your beef?" And if you people don't straighten up I'm going to get controversial.
(Help me, help me. I don't know which smiley face to use!)
DiamondSCattleCo
Well-known member
Oldtimer said:Even in the post above Rod admits that Canada is afraid to openly and fairly compete - so instead you have had to count on fraud and deception in order to market your product....Sad... Sad
Are you drinking again? Since when have I ever said that Canada is afraid to openly and fairly compete? What I said, and read closely OT so you don't get confused: Those who are against Cool are against it because they know that groups like RCalf and people like you would use the Cool label to frauduently (sp?) claim that US beef is safer somehow, despite having more lax standards with chemical use and a proven track record of importing disease into North America.
If you're going to attempt to use my words against me OT, at least make sure you get it right. Otherwise you come off looking like a fraud.
Rod
S.S.A.P.
Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Could be that that this anti r-calf disease will jump the border and the r-calf cluster area will have to be quarantined and eradicated :wink: - that will be the job of the majority of American producers who continue to and want to keep consumer confidence in beef. Canadians are human what species is r-calf? :shock:
jdst - sorry only one comment on wheat (winter or other), because we produce cattle which ultimately leads to great tasting Canadian beef. But I do know that we grow a good portion of high protein #1 wheat (and durum) that is blended to raise the overall quality of lower grades... :wink:
And on it's own merit, it is very much like Canadian beef ... purchased by those that like higher quality....