Canadian Health Care Imploding

[aplusmnt]

Tam must have busted more than her chops.......?

Oh I expect she will be back in about two to three weeks give or take a month or so, as that is how long the waiting lines are in Alberta to see a doctor to bandage the booboo on her ego. :roll: No wait she is not like the over 100,000 Canadians that have to sit on a waiting list, she is one of the lucky ones that has never ever had to sit on a waiting list isn't she. She'll be back after a few glasses of wine, all primed and ready to dodge the debate with insults. :wink:

I think you need an Orgasm reader. Is that being consistently civil?

Do you and Big Muddy sit around all day telling each other how great you are-- and how much Holier than Thou you are above everyone else :???:

I hope you didn't leave too big a yellow puddle on the floor as you jumped up and down shouting "Looky - I Won, I Won, I Won Big Muddy- I ran off another evil person that had the gall to disagree with us"...

No one ran off anyone, we discussed some medical facts and she could not handle the heat! Are we suppose to keep the facts to our self so Mrs.Greg feels welcome?

Mrs.Greg is perfect example of what happens when a parent lets their kid win at ever game they play with them. They never learn what it is like to lose! :wink:

You liberals and your cry babying about people getting ran off is getting old, go read the thread and see where she got ran off? She got ran off because the facts were to much for her!

She wanted the truth, but she could not handle the truth! :wink:

 

[hypocritexposer]

Oh I expect she will be back in about two to three weeks give or take a month or so, as that is how long the waiting lines are in Alberta to see a doctor to bandage the booboo on her ego. :roll: No wait she is not like the over 100,000 Canadians that have to sit on a waiting list, she is one of the lucky ones that has never ever had to sit on a waiting list isn't she. She'll be back after a few glasses of wine, all primed and ready to dodge the debate with insults. :wink:

I think you need an Orgasm reader. Is that being consistently civil?

Do you and Big Muddy sit around all day telling each other how great you are-- and how much Holier than Thou you are above everyone else :???:

I hope you didn't leave too big a yellow puddle on the floor as you jumped up and down shouting "Looky - I Won, I Won, I Won Big Muddy- I ran off another evil person that had the gall to disagree with us"...

No one ran off anyone, we discussed some medical facts and she could not handle the heat! Are we suppose to keep the facts to our self so Mrs.Greg feels welcome?

Mrs.Greg is perfect example of what happens when a parent lets their kid win at ever game they play with them. They never learn what it is like to lose! :wink:

You liberals and your cry babying about people getting ran off is getting old, go read the thread and see where she got ran off? She got ran off because the facts were to much for her!

She wanted the truth, but she could not handle the truth! :wink:

part of the problem is that because there are some problems with the Health Care system in Canada, front line workers such as Mrs. Greg, take some heat over the issue. I'm talking from patients etc.

People that get into Health Care as a profession, are naturally helpful/caring individuals. Being restricted by the system must be frustrating.

Anybody in Sales would understand what it's like to defend your product.

I can understand her being defensive.

But the issues have to come out into the open, if they are to be solved.

 

[Tam]

Mrs. Greg..

User fees need to be implemented.....

we call that a cost share or co-pay.. and a deductible ... without it many will take advantage of the system.. and it is one of the main complaints the Obama administration and liberals have about how insurance companies cut costs..

welcome back and welcome to our way of thinking on this issue..

First let me state this is where I do agree if nothing else User fees should be implemented to cut down on the frivilous doctors visits and I have said this before. That said We had them for a while in Sask then studies came out saying that user fees hurt the poor more than they do anyone else. Guess what happen then, they were stopped and I don't see us ever implementing them again. We can't have a system where the poor are not getting the EXACT SAME access to care as someone that can afford to pay a deductable. That is what is considered here in Canada as a two tiered system and that is not the Universal same care for everyone one payer way. So instead we all get to wait behind the hangnail guy and the kid with the sniffles. :roll:

 

[hypocritexposer]

Mrs. Greg..

User fees need to be implemented.....

we call that a cost share or co-pay.. and a deductible ... without it many will take advantage of the system.. and it is one of the main complaints the Obama administration and liberals have about how insurance companies cut costs..

welcome back and welcome to our way of thinking on this issue..

First let me state this is where I do agree if nothing else User fees should be implemented to cut down on the frivilous doctors visits and I have said this before. That said We had them for a while in Sask then studies came out saying that user fees hurt the poor more than they do anyone else. Guess what happen then, they were stopped and I don't see us ever implementing them again. We can't have a system where the poor are not getting the EXACT SAME access to care as someone that can afford to pay a deductable. That is what is considered here in Canada as a two tiered system and that is not the Universal same care for everyone one payer way. So instead we all get to wait behind the hangnail guy and the kid with the sniffles. :roll:

Tam, I think I've mentioned the "free" health care in Alberta also. They discontinued the "premium" last year? Anyway, all it did was give the appearance of a "free" service, but it lowers the perceived cost at the same time.

I'd like to see if unnecessary visits to the hospital or doctor have increased since they made it "free"

How about a tax deduction for less usage? :wink:

Can you get a tax deduction if you don't pay taxes?

 

[Tam]

Do you and Big Muddy sit around all day telling each other how great you are-- and how much Holier than Thou you are above everyone else :???:

I hope you didn't leave too big a yellow puddle on the floor as you jumped up and down shouting "Looky - I Won, I Won, I Won Big Muddy- I ran off another evil person that had the gall to disagree with us"...

No one ran off anyone, we discussed some medical facts and she could not handle the heat! Are we suppose to keep the facts to our self so Mrs.Greg feels welcome?

Mrs.Greg is perfect example of what happens when a parent lets their kid win at ever game they play with them. They never learn what it is like to lose! :wink:

You liberals and your cry babying about people getting ran off is getting old, go read the thread and see where she got ran off? She got ran off because the facts were to much for her!

She wanted the truth, but she could not handle the truth! :wink:

part of the problem is that because there are some problems with the Health Care system in Canada, front line workers such as Mrs. Greg, take some heat over the issue. I'm talking from patients etc.

People that get into Health Care as a profession, are naturally helpful/caring individuals. Being restricted by the system must be frustrating.

Anybody in Sales would understand what it's like to defend your product.

I can understand her being defensive.

But the issues have to come out into the open, if they are to be solved.

And that is exactly why the CMA said we ALL have to partisipate in the discussions. If we don't point out the problems and discuss them like adults than how will we ever fix them. Defending a broken imploding system with comments meant to discredit the debater and not the facts presented is doing NOBODY, not the frontline works like the doctors and Mrs Greg or the patients like me and my neighbors, any good. Problem is when you try debate any issue with liberal you get the same crap. Discrediting remarks about the messenger and NO FACTS to back their OPINIONS. .

 

[hypocritexposer]

Problem is when you try debate any issue with liberal you get the same crap. Discrediting remarks about the messenger and NO FACTS to back their OPINIONS. .

I've never noticed that happening. :wink: :wink:

 

[garn]

The emergency room at our hospital has a large sign on the wall that sets out the priorities in treatment. Those who have problems that can be dealt with at a doctors office are sent to the doctor's office. Those that need treatment at the hospital are treated in order of the severity of their problems. In other words if you walk in with a sore finger, you better be ready to wait, unless no one else is there that is more serious. They will get to you when they can, but it won't be at the expense of someone in serious condition.

Sounds good to me. Now if they would post a sign like that in the Urgent Care facilities (no appointment needed and first come, first serve regardless of condition walk in clinic,) that would be a start to "health care reform" and make people think twice about running to urgent care because of a common cold :roll:

 

[Anonymous]

No one ran off anyone, we discussed some medical facts and she could not handle the heat! Are we suppose to keep the facts to our self so Mrs.Greg feels welcome?

Mrs.Greg is perfect example of what happens when a parent lets their kid win at ever game they play with them. They never learn what it is like to lose! :wink:

You liberals and your cry babying about people getting ran off is getting old, go read the thread and see where she got ran off? She got ran off because the facts were to much for her!

She wanted the truth, but she could not handle the truth! :wink:

part of the problem is that because there are some problems with the Health Care system in Canada, front line workers such as Mrs. Greg, take some heat over the issue. I'm talking from patients etc.

People that get into Health Care as a profession, are naturally helpful/caring individuals. Being restricted by the system must be frustrating.

Anybody in Sales would understand what it's like to defend your product.

I can understand her being defensive.

But the issues have to come out into the open, if they are to be solved.

And that is exactly why the CMA said we ALL have to partisipate in the discussions. If we don't point out the problems and discuss them like adults than how will we ever fix them. Defending a broken imploding system with comments meant to discredit the debater and not the facts presented is doing NOBODY, not the frontline works like the doctors and Mrs Greg or the patients like me and my neighbors, any good. Problem is when you try debate any issue with liberal you get the same crap. Discrediting remarks about the messenger and NO FACTS to back their OPINIONS. .

BULLPUCKEY---Several on here- Canadians and non Canadians have given you their opinion of Canadian healthcare- and their experiences...Myself included...And we're not seeing what your seeing...
But to you- with the Holier than Thou attitude-- our opinions don't count...Real life experience doesn't count unless it follows your drumbeat.....Professional views don't count- unless they think your way....

How can you discuss something when its either your way or the highway :???:

Did you ever think it may be just your part of the country- or certain parts of the country? Healthcare in the US varies a whole hell of a lot....Or like your overly high unreasonable expectations of having a Doctor within arms reach 24/7?...

But you find one article- and you jump down Mrs. Gregs throat for her opinion...Why aren't you calling out Northern Rancher on his opinion- he's got up to the minute experience-- or Kato :???:
And your buddy in crime MsSage is cussing folks out- and saying the site was better off without them....Thats debate :???:

It appears to me as petty jealousy of those that have the training and experience-- and an alleycat attack attitude toward one or two people if they have the gall to (God Forbid) disagree with YOU ....

 

[Anonymous]

The emergency room at our hospital has a large sign on the wall that sets out the priorities in treatment. Those who have problems that can be dealt with at a doctors office are sent to the doctor's office. Those that need treatment at the hospital are treated in order of the severity of their problems. In other words if you walk in with a sore finger, you better be ready to wait, unless no one else is there that is more serious. They will get to you when they can, but it won't be at the expense of someone in serious condition.

Sounds good to me. Now if they would post a sign like that in the Urgent Care facilities (no appointment needed and first come, first serve regardless of condition walk in clinic,) that would be a start to "health care reform" and make people think twice about running to urgent care because of a common cold :roll:

Most emergency rooms have a triage system sat up-- so the person with chest pains- or auto accident internal injuries - etc. etc.- are treated before the person with a sore finger- or a sore throat....
If you've ever worked in a good ER during a bad wreck or disaster- you would be amazed at the number of people just one or two doctors and the staff can handle in the system at one time.....

 

[Tam]

Tam must have busted more than her chops.......?

Oh I expect she will be back in about two to three weeks give or take a month or so, as that is how long the waiting lines are in Alberta to see a doctor to bandage the booboo on her ego. :roll: No wait she is not like the over 100,000 Canadians that have to sit on a waiting list, she is one of the lucky ones that has never ever had to sit on a waiting list isn't she. She'll be back after a few glasses of wine, all primed and ready to dodge the debate with insults. :wink:

I think you need an Orgasm reader. Is that being consistently civil?

Do you and Big Muddy sit around all day telling each other how great you are-- and how much Holier than Thou you are above everyone else :???:

I hope you didn't leave too big a yellow puddle on the floor as you jumped up and down shouting "Looky - I Won, I Won, I Won Big Muddy- I ran off another evil person that had the gall to disagree with us"...

I wasn't going to reply to you Oldtimer but here it goes :roll:

No we don't Oldtimer we sit around all day talking about what an disgusting old idiot you are only you Oldtimer feel better now. :wink: :roll:

BMR made that comment to reader to point out that Hurleyjd was not as "Consistently civil" as reader would have us believe. As you see Oldtimer that was the comment her civil buddy made to me in his, not so farewell, drama filled post that turned ugly. But hey take the comment out of context and make it into something else Oldtimer you are good at that. :wink: :roll:

And if Mrs Greg doesn't want to stick around and discuss the problems within the Canadian system it's not a win by any means . Why, you might ask if you cared at all, is as long as we have the Mrs Gregs and the nonothings of the world sticking their fingers in their ears and running out on the debate so they can't or won't face of the problems we all face they will not likely get fixed. The CMA says we ALL have to participate not just those of us that were transplanted where. :roll: :x

And by "us" do you mean me and the CMA, Canadian Supreme Court, the Canadian Government, most if not all Provinicial Governments and the thousands that are sitting on waiting lists Oldtimer? :wink:

 

[hopalong]

Guess oldtimer does not believe the CMA, or is it possible that he didn't read it? Or is it possible it does not bash BUSH he calls it as lie?
Funny how what he posts has to be the gospel but when faced with facts he goes off in a tangent against other people!!!

oldtimer are you so much more knowledgeable that the CMA or are you wallowing in your own self importance that YOU and ONLY you know anything? :roll: :roll: :roll:

EH?

 

[hopalong]

One post stating facts from someone who KNOWS the system and has hands on in the whole system and a couple of hard heads go off on a tangent that does not in one way shape or fact prove anything except their gotta be right no matter attitude. :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[Tam]

Mrs. Greg..

we call that a cost share or co-pay.. and a deductible ... without it many will take advantage of the system.. and it is one of the main complaints the Obama administration and liberals have about how insurance companies cut costs..

welcome back and welcome to our way of thinking on this issue..

First let me state this is where I do agree if nothing else User fees should be implemented to cut down on the frivilous doctors visits and I have said this before. That said We had them for a while in Sask then studies came out saying that user fees hurt the poor more than they do anyone else. Guess what happen then, they were stopped and I don't see us ever implementing them again. We can't have a system where the poor are not getting the EXACT SAME access to care as someone that can afford to pay a deductable. That is what is considered here in Canada as a two tiered system and that is not the Universal same care for everyone one payer way. So instead we all get to wait behind the hangnail guy and the kid with the sniffles. :roll:

Tam, I think I've mentioned the "free" health care in Alberta also. They discontinued the "premium" last year? Anyway, all it did was give the appearance of a "free" service, but it lowers the perceived cost at the same time.

I'd like to see if unnecessary visits to the hospital or doctor have increased since they made it "free"

How about a tax deduction for less usage? :wink:

Can you get a tax deduction if you don't pay taxes?

I would also like to know if they increased as I don't see how they haven't as if you have personal skin in the game ie a user fee you are less likely to abuse the system. If you have to decide between a user fee for a frivious doctor visit and something else most will take the something else. But I doubt a small user fee will stop even the poor from seeing a doctor if it is really needed.
If we don't do something to educate people to what it really costs and what some of these frivilous visits do to the rest of the public that really do need medical attention we are in deep trouble. This system according to the experts is unsubtainable as is and I see more rationing coming down the pike at us. I feel sorry for anyone that has to work in this system as it is plain to see they are overworked and the breaking point is growing ever closer when you have the CMA saying it is going to implode. We need to put all the options on the table and like it or not look and discuss all options. If that means tax deductions for the healthier tax payers then lets discuss it. PRO's and CON's not this sticking our heads in the sand and ignore the facts of how bad thing really are.

 

[Steve]

OT

BULLPUCKEY---Several on here- Canadians and non Canadians have given you their opinion of Canadian healthcare- and their experiences...Myself included...And we're not seeing what your seeing...

interesting response... fight facts with opinion and denial..

 

[hopalong]

OT

BULLPUCKEY---Several on here- Canadians and non Canadians have given you their opinion of Canadian healthcare- and their experiences...Myself included...And we're not seeing what your seeing...

interesting response... fight facts with opinion and denial..

Really dark rose colored glasses combined with kool aid will fog a mind like some of the posters?
Especially when one is mixing his kool aid with a little snort from the local water hole :wink: :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

OT

BULLPUCKEY---Several on here- Canadians and non Canadians have given you their opinion of Canadian healthcare- and their experiences...Myself included...And we're not seeing what your seeing...

interesting response... fight facts with opinion and denial..

Steve-- is the experiences of those getting the care- and involved in the service opinion-- or fact.... :???:
They have layed out what they saw- and experienced- so to me that is then evidence of a fact...

 

[Steve]

OT

BULLPUCKEY---Several on here- Canadians and non Canadians have given you their opinion of Canadian healthcare- and their experiences...Myself included...And we're not seeing what your seeing...

interesting response... fight facts with opinion and denial..

Steve-- is the experiences of those getting the care- and involved in the service opinion-- or fact.... :???:
They have layed out what they saw- and experienced- so to me that is then evidence of a fact...

I get excellent care from the VA... based on my experience.. but, it is just my opinion...

 

[aplusmnt]

I am sure many get good health care in Canada! Someone has to be getting care or there would not be those waiting for care that are complaining.

I went to a Garth Brooks Concert once and hated it! My friend was there and he loved it. Maybe the difference was he got tickets Center front stage 5th row up and me and wife ended up in the nose bleed seats! I did not complain though because I got what I paid for!

Problem is in Canada everyone pays the same so why should some be happy with care and get service while others wait in pain or to die? And yes they do die that is why Cancer survival rate is behind the U.S. even though they all get free medical!

 

[nonothing]

I am sure many get good health care in Canada! Someone has to be getting care or there would not be those waiting for care that are complaining.

I went to a Garth Brooks Concert once and hated it! My friend was there and he loved it. Maybe the difference was he got tickets Center front stage 5th row up and me and wife ended up in the nose bleed seats! I did not complain though because I got what I paid for!

Problem is in Canada everyone pays the same so why should some be happy with care and get service while others wait in pain or to die? And yes they do die that is why Cancer survival rate is behind the U.S. even though they all get free medical!

See again your wrong .No people do not all pay the same in Canada for medical care......Geeze I wish you would at least know what you tell others ....I do not get free medical...I do however get affordable medical......

 

[Anonymous]

OT


interesting response... fight facts with opinion and denial..

Steve-- is the experiences of those getting the care- and involved in the service opinion-- or fact.... :???:
They have layed out what they saw- and experienced- so to me that is then evidence of a fact...

I get excellent care from the VA... based on my experience.. but, it is just my opinion...

That is true- but even in court you can testify to something you saw or heard - and personal experiences you've experienced in life...

And its up to the Judge/Jury to give each persons testimony weight depending upon the credibility of the witness- possible motive- etc- etc....

And its one of the reasons I have in making my decision to give more weight to the Canadian poster's without a dog in the fight- those with experience working in the system- and those like my Canadian friends and neighbors I've talked to- who not only don't have the bias's Tam has--but that I know from years of interaction are credible....

On the other hand- Tam- has shown a propensity since minute one to disagree with anything that might favor Obama, the Dems, or government as a whole--and in her other post where she unrationally expected 24/7 Doctors availability within arms reach in a rural area (something that was shown not even to exist in the States) she has shown her bias against anything government has made her expectations unreasonable....