Faster horses
Well-known member
I can find lots of 'branded beef' around here. Most of it is pretty good.
Canadian Meat
- Thread starter VB RANCH
- Start date
One of the argued drawbacks to COOL was always the price. At one time that was used as an excuse for not putting air bags in cars, as well, but with most things cost goes down with mass production and technology. The process for COOL would have been streamlined, and as the kinks were worked out, in all likelihood the price would have continued to decline. IMO.mrj said:
It's nice that there are so many private labels out there, but how many families on a budget are going to afford the higher prices on a regular basis? That would be why 9 out of 10 of them want COOL. It sort of seems like the same people who will push for BQA will also push to throw everything together without origin information requirements to the consumer. The other odd thing is that checkoff dollars used for the advancement of US beef in overseas market, think MEF, actually promote and label US beef. Foreigners obviously want and need to know what they're getting, but US consumers have less information, unless they want to pay for private labels.
Let's not forget that labeling isn't all about beef. At this point the chicken and "sewer carp", as well as other fish and sea food from China et al, won't require a label. Canadian beef isn't a concern or something to avoid, but there are other produce that should give the consumer reason to pause. Do we think that people weren't bothered by the latest Brazilian beef scandal?
I think that Canada would have done well to promote it's beef more to US consumers as a quality product, pushing it's attributes, instead of filing a trade dispute with the WTO and ending the whole program. US beef is promoted as such to other countries, and I've seen very good videos promoting Canadian beef, but not in the States.
Food service is another issue, altogether. That's where the worst lack of information is, imo, and it needs to change. Chinese catfish at Popeyes, anyone?
I don't know why people have such a hard time understanding the problem with COOL as it relates to Canadian cattle. If we had two separate industries then I would totally understand. But when my steer calf gets bought here, exported to the US and fed and slaughtered, it is no longer a product of Canada. An American calf fed and processed here is a product of Canada. There is a hundred ways this whole deal gets convoluted and trying to make a label for every possible scenario is ridiculous. I have a hard time believing that producers of all people have such a limited understanding of how the beef industry works that they can believe their own pro COOL arguments. In fact I don't believe it, I believe these people are simply vindictive and opportunistic. If 9 out of 10 consumers really wanted labeling then the great free enterprise system would provide it because that's how free enterprise works.
I see nothing wrong with the labeling as a product of the US and/or Canada. There's just a whole lot about COOL that has nothing to do with Canada, and more about passing any number of products from different continents/countries off on consumers without them having much of a clue.Silver said:
highgrit
Well-known member
We have the the leader in beef checkoff money "NCBA" not wanting COOL. The feedlots - cattlemen that control NCBA import beef mostly from Mexico so of course they don't want COOL. At our cattlemens meeting last week we discussed buying Mexican beef at $4.99 lb or buy CAB beef for $8.49 lb. Everyone wanted to pay the extra money for CAB ribeyes. You can't blame the consumer for buying Mexican beef, but I can blame NCBA and the Government, free trade my donkey.
Traveler said:
I can't argue with that. There must be some sort of solution. I just get pretty waspy when I have to take less money for my product because the place where it's going to end up is going to incur extra expense because of a stupid rule that really isn't legal in the first place.
highgrit
Well-known member
I know that feeling well, my neighbors are loggers.
highgrit said:
highgrit, Is your cattlemens' group you attended failing to inform you, or don't you believe some simple facts about the industry?
I. NCBA as "the leader in beef Check Off money" as you claim, actually uses ALL the check off money they receive specifically to do the research and other work fulfilling the contracts AWARDED to them by the Cattlemens' Beef Board. Many organizations are qualified to bid on such contracts. ALL Beef Check Off contracts are on a cost recovery only basis. That probably is why not so many groups will bid on them. There is NO profit allowed to the contracting organization.
2. "Free Trade" does have to jump through government hoops. That is, MANY governments have a hand in making the rules. It does take more than one government, one business, one commodity to achieve international trade.
3. I know from personal experience that NCBA is "controlled" by the dues paying members whether they are cow-calf or yearling producers as we are, or feeders and on up or down the chain that is the beef production industry, most of them actual cattle producers. As a cattle producer, I choose to talk to people in ALL segments of the cattle and beef industry. Learning as much as I can, and talking to as many people involved in segments such as feeders, traders, seed stock production, and yes, even those packers so many farmers and ranchers seem to love to hate, are worth visiting with!
4. Tho I don't know the standards for 'research' claiming consumers want COOL, I did participate in a workshop where actual consumers told NCBA members that they wanted to know RANCH of origin, and I strongly BELIEVE (memory doesn't tell me SPECIFICALLY how it was worded) nor why the promoters of COOL did NOT want ranch of origin on their COOL label. Further, don't we all 'know' that anything government does costs more than when private enterprise does it??? That is a major reason NCBA members did not support the government COOL label the promoters demanded. From my point of view, it was worthless because it was not the way consumers wanted it, AND it would be competing with privately labelled beef which the producers thereof had paid for themselves?
5. (probably first in importance since so few seem to know it) the check off dollar is charged for every head of beef imported, live or processed, and that is why imported beef is treated as all other beef for which the checkoff is paid. That is, ALL beef sold that has gone through the US beef production (which does include processing!)
6. Nothing is perfect, and little stays the same forever. But a personal peeve: of mine is, it does seem to me the closer to "perfect" any system or thing is, the more people that are determined to tear it down.
mrj
highgrit
Well-known member
This is our truck so I'm fairly familiar with how the beef checkoff program works. And we appreciate the help, but I just can't see helping the countries that want to cut our throats in the beef business.
We send ours dues off to NCBA every year but I sure don't think they have my best interest in mind. Or for that matter the smaller US cattlemens best interest in mind. There's no doubt NCBA is fighting for the beef industry and WOTUS was a big deal for us.
We send ours dues off to NCBA every year but I sure don't think they have my best interest in mind. Or for that matter the smaller US cattlemens best interest in mind. There's no doubt NCBA is fighting for the beef industry and WOTUS was a big deal for us.
This gives a little insight as to how it is done in Canada
Product of Canada:
The words "Product of Canada" stamped on the box does not mean
the product in the box is from Canada – it simply means that the beef
has undergone some form of processing in Canada. The product in
the box may be Canadian but it could also be imported beef that has
been "reworked" (i.e. undergone trimming or portioning) in Canada.
Canadian Federal or Provincial Inspection Stamp:
The Canadian Federal or Provincial Inspection stamp
on the label or box doesn't mean the beef inside is
Canadian – it just means that the product has been
inspected and approved at a Canadian plant as meeting
a standard set of health and safety guidelines under the
supervision of the CFIA. The stamp will also have a number listed
on the bottom that refers to the plant at which the product was
processed. For a list of establishments and their associated numbers,
go to the CFIA website at: www.inspection.gc.ca.
Product of Canada:
The words "Product of Canada" stamped on the box does not mean
the product in the box is from Canada – it simply means that the beef
has undergone some form of processing in Canada. The product in
the box may be Canadian but it could also be imported beef that has
been "reworked" (i.e. undergone trimming or portioning) in Canada.
Canadian Federal or Provincial Inspection Stamp:
The Canadian Federal or Provincial Inspection stamp
on the label or box doesn't mean the beef inside is
Canadian – it just means that the product has been
inspected and approved at a Canadian plant as meeting
a standard set of health and safety guidelines under the
supervision of the CFIA. The stamp will also have a number listed
on the bottom that refers to the plant at which the product was
processed. For a list of establishments and their associated numbers,
go to the CFIA website at: www.inspection.gc.ca.
Is there information on what countries are importing beef into Canada and how much? Brazil and Mexico? So basically if it's just packaged, or repackaged, it can be labeled as a product of Canada? What about poultry and seafood?Silver said:
This link shows beef imports into Canada. Mexico falls into the 'other' category I suppose. http://aimis-simia.agr.gc.ca/rp/ind...E0652145&pdctc=&r=194&pTpl=1&btnDownload=View
According to law, any product that undergoes significant change becomes a product of the country in which it underwent the change. I think in general that's fair.
According to law, any product that undergoes significant change becomes a product of the country in which it underwent the change. I think in general that's fair.
highgrit said:This is our truck so I'm fairly familiar with how the beef checkoff program works. And we appreciate the help, but I just can't see helping the countries that want to cut our throats in the beef business.
We send ours dues off to NCBA every year but I sure don't think they have my best interest in mind. Or for that matter the smaller US cattlemens best interest in mind. There's no doubt NCBA is fighting for the beef industry and WOTUS was a big deal for us.
Congratulations for advertising your state and GA cattle and beef!
What specifically is it that NCBA is, or is not doing, that you believe is not in your, or the smaller US cattlemen's best interest? Personally, I most favor the work with consumers to find out what they really want. Then the work with chefs and other food professionals to find ways for consumers to choose and prepare beef more economically and also to show them the actual nutrient values of todays' beef. The latest thing I've learned about is the Check Off working with bloggers having no connection with the cattle or beef industry, but love both. They seem to be influencing consumers in a good way and am glad our check off dollar is helping with that effort. I don't particularly enjoy the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally, but beef was named the official meat this year, and got some good publicity for it at the rally recently.
It may surprise you that there are cattle producers of ALL sizes who are members of NCBA.
I do realize that there are a couple of Ag organizations that have fought NCBA pretty much forever, fought the check-off from the beginning, and continues yet today trying to kill it. Maybe they believe killing the Check Off will end NCBA. Actually, NCBA and its predecessor organizations date back before 1900, and there was no checkoff then, so I doubt it will disappear anytime soon, with or without the check off. There is no denying the work done with check-off money is valuable to cattle growers. ALL money received by NCBA from that check off is on a cost recovery only basis for check off projects.
mrj
highgrit
Well-known member
mrj said:highgrit said:This is our truck so I'm fairly familiar with how the beef checkoff program works. And we appreciate the help, but I just can't see helping the countries that want to cut our throats in the beef business.
We send ours dues off to NCBA every year but I sure don't think they have my best interest in mind. Or for that matter the smaller US cattlemens best interest in mind. There's no doubt NCBA is fighting for the beef industry and WOTUS was a big deal for us.
Congratulations for advertising your state and GA cattle and beef!
What specifically is it that NCBA is, or is not doing, that you believe is not in your, or the smaller US cattlemen's best interest? Personally, I most favor the work with consumers to find out what they really want. Then the work with chefs and other food professionals to find ways for consumers to choose and prepare beef more economically and also to show them the actual nutrient values of todays' beef. The latest thing I've learned about is the Check Off working with bloggers having no connection with the cattle or beef industry, but love both. They seem to be influencing consumers in a good way and am glad our check off dollar is helping with that effort. I don't particularly enjoy the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally, but beef was named the official meat this year, and got some good publicity for it at the rally recently.
It may surprise you that there are cattle producers of ALL sizes who are members of NCBA.
I do realize that there are a couple of Ag organizations that have fought NCBA pretty much forever, fought the check-off from the beginning, and continues yet today trying to kill it. Maybe they believe killing the Check Off will end NCBA. Actually, NCBA and its predecessor organizations date back before 1900, and there was no checkoff then, so I doubt it will disappear anytime soon, with or without the check off. There is no denying the work done with check-off money is valuable to cattle growers. ALL money received by NCBA from that check off is on a cost recovery only basis for check off projects.
mrj
A few things that come to mind about NCBA that I don't care for. Not backing COOL and not fighting against imported beef is costing the small producers. After Mr Uden spoke at our summer conference he was off to China the next day to promote beef, not US born and raised beef. And charging $100. for a member and $125. to non members to attend the NCBA convention and trade show is steep for the adverage cattle producer. We use and appreciate the NCBA checkoff money and it helps us to promote beef around the state. We also give a dollar a head to the Georgia ACC Beef Board that can be used for research, education and promotion of beef.
While I may not approve of every thing NCBA has done, there is so much more the members choose to do which is very good for cattle producers.
COOL was a fraud, imo., because promoters of COOL would not allow it to include ranch of origin which is what consumers stated over and over again is what they want. Government programs are more expensive than when private enterprise does it. COOL competed with private enterprise when those paying their own way to label their beef had to pay taxes to label the generic government beef.
I'm not convinced that the beef which is imported into the USA damages those of us producing high quality beef.
Where and when it is profitable to label USA produced beef, it will be done privately, or as in the case of the Beef Check Off promotions which benefit all producers with our own dollars.
Yes, it is expensive to attend meetings. I don't believe costs for NCBA conventions are out of line with similar meetings. For us the biggest expense is getting there, since we live out in the boon docks far from large convention facilities. We have felt it important enough to attend meetings that we very rarely take any other vacation, believing the classes and business knowledge we gain is a benefit to our ranch business. I'm sorry not everyone can do that. Sadly, we all have to make hard choices in life.
mrj
COOL was a fraud, imo., because promoters of COOL would not allow it to include ranch of origin which is what consumers stated over and over again is what they want. Government programs are more expensive than when private enterprise does it. COOL competed with private enterprise when those paying their own way to label their beef had to pay taxes to label the generic government beef.
I'm not convinced that the beef which is imported into the USA damages those of us producing high quality beef.
Where and when it is profitable to label USA produced beef, it will be done privately, or as in the case of the Beef Check Off promotions which benefit all producers with our own dollars.
Yes, it is expensive to attend meetings. I don't believe costs for NCBA conventions are out of line with similar meetings. For us the biggest expense is getting there, since we live out in the boon docks far from large convention facilities. We have felt it important enough to attend meetings that we very rarely take any other vacation, believing the classes and business knowledge we gain is a benefit to our ranch business. I'm sorry not everyone can do that. Sadly, we all have to make hard choices in life.
mrj
I think that COOL needs to be re-introduced with changes and improvements being made. That being said, I have trouble understanding how not including ranch of origin would constitute fraud or unfair competition. That would be a niche market for those choosing to go to the effort of that direction of marketing. If you think that private labels that already include required information should receive a tax incentive, then promote that idea, and I would have to agree that that would be a good idea. If consumers truly want ranch of origin, as you state, then one would think that information would be more available. If Country of origin is a logistical issue, as I've heard stated, I can only imagine what Ranch of origin would be if required on all labels.mrj said:
highgrit
Well-known member
COOL is needed for for the US consumer, and the consumers abroad that think they are buying US of A beef. Just because a animal is slaughtered, processed in the US of A doesn't make it a product of the US of A.
highgrit
Well-known member
Silver said:
And that's another good reason not to sell beef imported from another country as a product of the US of A, why take the risk of importing a disease from another country? The fact is the US of A doesn't need to import Canadian beef. Mexican beef is a cheaper product for the consumer. And a leaner, cheaper carcass for the processor that already has the fat to mix with ground beef for hamburger.