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Can't Afford a Bull This Year!

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OK I Must weigh in here the Williams Lake 75th bull Sale& Show is on April 19th &20th. THis sale has been running an All breeds Program from alot of smaller consignors .while the quantity per breeder is small for the most part the Quality is there.this sale has a strict culling committee,vet check.&weight guidelines to ensure the bulls are worthy of being sold as bulls.I agree with gcreek.in that the Pricing of Bulls is cheaper than the praries.I must question if the same guidelines apply to some of these production sales.there will be 148 bulls cataloged this year.10 simmies {reds&blacks}44herfords,80angus,10 other breeds.the sale is held at the bc livestock yards in w.l.transportation out of there is never a problem.
 
3words,

Got one bought today. More than I wanted to spend but got a bull bought that if he breeds true to himself could really be a herd changer. Four really good bulls at Erixsons today and they all brought over $6000.00. Glad to be done though. Hope you got one bought that you liked today too.
 
I was thinking the same thing miocene as far as culling criteria. Will no doubt get worse going forward with these prices. How bad would a calf have to be to get cut? How much temptation would there be to shave a few pound off a heavy birthweight to gain 5 grand?
A local breeder has been looking for some more sim-cross commercials to buy, he has that strong of market for black 'hybred' bulls. Crazy.
They weren't discounting bull calves that bad this winter, might let some good calves keep their berries and keep a couple off the top.
 
North Ridge Ranching said:
3words,

Got one bought today. More than I wanted to spend but got a bull bought that if he breeds true to himself could really be a herd changer. Four really good bulls at Erixsons today and they all brought over $6000.00. Glad to be done though. Hope you got one bought that you liked today too.

Good people and good cattle. How did they average?
 
I know these bulls are in Iowa, but, does this help at all? Heck, if they are priced right, it might be worth it.

http://www.spechtsimmentals.com/forsale.html
 
miocene said:
OK I Must weigh in here the Williams Lake 75th bull Sale& Show is on April 19th &20th. THis sale has been running an All breeds Program from alot of smaller consignors .while the quantity per breeder is small for the most part the Quality is there.this sale has a strict culling committee,vet check.&weight guidelines to ensure the bulls are worthy of being sold as bulls.I agree with gcreek.in that the Pricing of Bulls is cheaper than the praries.I must question if the same guidelines apply to some of these production sales.there will be 148 bulls cataloged this year.10 simmies {reds&blacks}44herfords,80angus,10 other breeds.the sale is held at the bc livestock yards in w.l.transportation out of there is never a problem.

Do they have an online catalog? Would like to check out the herefords.
 
North Ridge Ranching said:
3words,

Got one bought today. More than I wanted to spend but got a bull bought that if he breeds true to himself could really be a herd changer. Four really good bulls at Erixsons today and they all brought over $6000.00. Glad to be done though. Hope you got one bought that you liked today too.

No i never did,i didn't want anything that had the same breeding as the 2 blacks i bought last year,and a couple of the other ones had to high of birth weights for my cows,so i just watched the blacks sell.The reds the more i looked at them they looked more like tans,and i figured it wouldn't be a nice colour cross with my cows.It was my first sale of the year,so even though you were telling me the prices of other bull sales,i think i was still a little shocked at the prices and the amount of people that were there.I couldn't even get into the sale ring stands,i had to stand in the door way.I figured out the averages when i got home and reds were just under $6600 and the blacks were $7000.Glad you got a bull bought up!! By the way what lot # was he?
 
ErixonCoalTrain92Y.jpg

Erixon Coal Train 92Y - Lot #33 ( Wheatland Bull 680S Son )

If he won't add some thickness to the quarter, I don't know what will. I have looked a 3 groups of 680S sons from different producers this year and they are all very consistent. They are the thickest through the hind quarter and over the back as any other sire group I have seen. He should cross good with our Net Worth and Stevenson MoneyMaker Angus sires. He has some Fleckvieh in his dams background. I always liked the fleck influence when we were using traditional simmentals.
 
I was standing beside the older gentleman that was bidding agains't your Dad on that bull then,i was wondering if maybe that was your Dad.
 
Jinglebob said:
I just made a deal to lease some today. $700 a head. He keeps then til' turnout time. If one dies, I pay half the cost between the lease price and what he would have been worth by the pound. Sounded kind of high a while back, now sounds like a better deal, seeing what these bulls are bringing.

207 angus bulls leased at Profit Maker for an average of $1,666
 
Just food for thought! Sorry its long but good!
Just buying a bull or is there more to consider! We all know the gravity of your bull selection today becomes a reality when their first calf crop is taken to market. Most consider pricing bulls based on a projection of years of service hopefully 4-8 years barring injury and the calf performance we might expect them to sire. If you don't keep your own replacement heifers, this makes some sense. If like most, you keep females, the long term effects of this year's buying decisions on ranch profitability may not be quite as obvious until we break it down based on the long term maternal value traits we are purchasing.
Let's assume your operation purchases 4 bulls this coming spring of 2012.•
First calves born in spring of 2013
First daughters calving in spring of 2015 (First granddaughters calve in 2017)
With any luck 2 or more of these bulls are still breeding at age 7 (2018)
Last calves born sired by these bulls in 2019
Last calf crop females have their first calves in 2021 (Their first daughters calve in 2023)
In 2022 a substantial share of the 2-7 year old cows are daughters of the bulls purchased 10 years before.
In the year 2030 there are still a few 11 and 12 year old daughters in your herd sired by the 2012 purchased bull.
In the year 2030 the granddaughters and great granddaughters of the bulls purchased 18 years ago still make up a substantial portion of the ge- netics of your herd.I know, most of us don't like to think about the year 2030. If however your plans are to keep or make the beef business an important part of your families livelihood as far out as 2030, which most of us do, the bulls you purchase this year will stillbe an important piece of the profits you enjoy or the challenges you are still work- ing through nearly 20 years from now. Sire selection is that important, so use allthe tools available to make the best decisions you can every time!So, if you would like to see a snap-shot of your cow herd 10-20 years from now in 2030, you need to only spend some time with the seedstock herd you purchase bulls from. With the exception of a few differences created by environment, what you see is where you are headed! The size, disposition, body condition, udders,feet, calving ease, fertility, longevity, etc of your future cow herd is right there to see. That is why it is so crucial to choose a seedstock source that is headed where you want and need to be.
 
khol said:
Just food for thought! Sorry its long but good!
Just buying a bull or is there more to consider! We all know the gravity of your bull selection today becomes a reality when their first calf crop is taken to market. Most consider pricing bulls based on a projection of years of service hopefully 4-8 years barring injury and the calf performance we might expect them to sire. If you don't keep your own replacement heifers, this makes some sense. If like most, you keep females, the long term effects of this year's buying decisions on ranch profitability may not be quite as obvious until we break it down based on the long term maternal value traits we are purchasing.
Let's assume your operation purchases 4 bulls this coming spring of 2012.•
First calves born in spring of 2013
First daughters calving in spring of 2015 (First granddaughters calve in 2017)
With any luck 2 or more of these bulls are still breeding at age 7 (2018)
Last calves born sired by these bulls in 2019
Last calf crop females have their first calves in 2021 (Their first daughters calve in 2023)
In 2022 a substantial share of the 2-7 year old cows are daughters of the bulls purchased 10 years before.
In the year 2030 there are still a few 11 and 12 year old daughters in your herd sired by the 2012 purchased bull.
In the year 2030 the granddaughters and great granddaughters of the bulls purchased 18 years ago still make up a substantial portion of the ge- netics of your herd.I know, most of us don't like to think about the year 2030. If however your plans are to keep or make the beef business an important part of your families livelihood as far out as 2030, which most of us do, the bulls you purchase this year will stillbe an important piece of the profits you enjoy or the challenges you are still work- ing through nearly 20 years from now. Sire selection is that important, so use allthe tools available to make the best decisions you can every time!So, if you would like to see a snap-shot of your cow herd 10-20 years from now in 2030, you need to only spend some time with the seedstock herd you purchase bulls from. With the exception of a few differences created by environment, what you see is where you are headed! The size, disposition, body condition, udders,feet, calving ease, fertility, longevity, etc of your future cow herd is right there to see. That is why it is so crucial to choose a seedstock source that is headed where you want and need to be.
Very good post.

I am old enough I can remember back when there was mostly Herefords in this country. Every body whined about their milking ability. We bought bulls based on that. And also, "them big, good looking ones," :wink:

Pretty soon everyone was cussing because they couldn't run as many cattle as they used to and it was blamed on poor years, wore out ground, and of course, the government! :D

Finally some realized that as they increased the milking in their cows, they also increased the size of the heifer calves they were keeping for replacements. And they became "nice, big cows" . :eek:

So, yes, what we do today has a large impact on what it is going to happen in the near and distant future.

We are going to AI heifer calves. When I went to find the right bull, I looked at ease of calving and then all the other numbers I wanted average. A bull doesn't have as much impact on calves as the cow, unless he is REALLY a good bull. And we would like to get calves out of their heifers who will grow up to be much like their mothers. No, we will not weaning off the heaviest calves. But we will not have the expense of wintering a larger cow. And the most important thing to me when I looked at a bull, was where he came from. I don't need bulls who are run like they are from a different part of the country. I need a bull who is run like we do and is superior.
 
Jinglebob said:
khol said:
Just food for thought! Sorry its long but good!
Just buying a bull or is there more to consider! We all know the gravity of your bull selection today becomes a reality when their first calf crop is taken to market. Most consider pricing bulls based on a projection of years of service hopefully 4-8 years barring injury and the calf performance we might expect them to sire. If you don't keep your own replacement heifers, this makes some sense. If like most, you keep females, the long term effects of this year's buying decisions on ranch profitability may not be quite as obvious until we break it down based on the long term maternal value traits we are purchasing.
Let's assume your operation purchases 4 bulls this coming spring of 2012.•
First calves born in spring of 2013
First daughters calving in spring of 2015 (First granddaughters calve in 2017)
With any luck 2 or more of these bulls are still breeding at age 7 (2018)
Last calves born sired by these bulls in 2019
Last calf crop females have their first calves in 2021 (Their first daughters calve in 2023)
In 2022 a substantial share of the 2-7 year old cows are daughters of the bulls purchased 10 years before.
In the year 2030 there are still a few 11 and 12 year old daughters in your herd sired by the 2012 purchased bull.
In the year 2030 the granddaughters and great granddaughters of the bulls purchased 18 years ago still make up a substantial portion of the ge- netics of your herd.I know, most of us don't like to think about the year 2030. If however your plans are to keep or make the beef business an important part of your families livelihood as far out as 2030, which most of us do, the bulls you purchase this year will stillbe an important piece of the profits you enjoy or the challenges you are still work- ing through nearly 20 years from now. Sire selection is that important, so use allthe tools available to make the best decisions you can every time!So, if you would like to see a snap-shot of your cow herd 10-20 years from now in 2030, you need to only spend some time with the seedstock herd you purchase bulls from. With the exception of a few differences created by environment, what you see is where you are headed! The size, disposition, body condition, udders,feet, calving ease, fertility, longevity, etc of your future cow herd is right there to see. That is why it is so crucial to choose a seedstock source that is headed where you want and need to be.
Very good post.

I am old enough I can remember back when there was mostly Herefords in this country. Every body whined about their milking ability. We bought bulls based on that. And also, "them big, good looking ones," :wink:

Pretty soon everyone was cussing because they couldn't run as many cattle as they used to and it was blamed on poor years, wore out ground, and of course, the government! :D

Finally some realized that as they increased the milking in their cows, they also increased the size of the heifer calves they were keeping for replacements. And they became "nice, big cows" . :eek:

So, yes, what we do today has a large impact on what it is going to happen in the near and distant future.

We are going to AI heifer calves. When I went to find the right bull, I looked at ease of calving and then all the other numbers I wanted average. A bull doesn't have as much impact on calves as the cow, unless he is REALLY a good bull. And we would like to get calves out of their heifers who will grow up to be much like their mothers. No, we will not weaning off the heaviest calves. But we will not have the expense of wintering a larger cow. And the most important thing to me when I looked at a bull, was where he came from. I don't need bulls who are run like they are from a different part of the country. I need a bull who is run like we do and is superior.

I don't think many think about it, but the cow business is a slow business. If the average rancher retires at age 65 and he began at age 20, he will only have 45 calf crops to sell. That isn't very many generations in a cows pedigree. It would be pretty easy to screw something up, and not even know you did it for several years. This is why it is so important to select the seedstock supplier who has the type of cows you want your cows to be like, and why a guy should select the absolute best bull you can afford.
 
BRG said:
Jinglebob said:
khol said:
Just food for thought!

I don't think many think about it, but the cow business is a slow business. If the average rancher retires at age 65 and he began at age 20, he will only have 45 calf crops to sell.

So.... how many do you know who REALLY retire at that age? :lol:
 
George said:
Jinglebob said:
BRG said:
Now wait a minute I'm just geting started and you'r telling me its time to retire? ( I never got started till about age 25 after the USMC so I need a couple more years )
Heck, in my book 65 is really pretty young! :D

I read a few years ago that after you turn 50 you can not decide you want to do more and have the physical capability to do so. I found that to be true after i turned 50. so you figure out ways to do as much as before in other ways. Ask John. He knows all about that. So instead of working harder, you have to work smarter. I plan to still be doing pretty much what I am doing now, but letting my son be the boss and I will just ride on his cattle with my Grandkids, I hope. 'Course, if I die tomorrow, I go out a winner. :D

I know quite a few ranchers over 65. Some slow down, but I don't know to many who actually quit! They retired the day they died, but they also let the next generation in on the deal too. Not too many who held out until they died. Pretty hard to die and let your 55 year old child take over if they never got any actual experience with the management. Just a wreck in the makings. Dad and Grand dad need to step back and let them make some mistakes when the mistakes are small so they can recover. We don't need to go thru' another 80's. But I bet we do.....
 

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