Cattle trade may resume soon

[Tam]

Tam, forget doctors, trade, whatever. This deal is very simple.

The USDA is reponsible for overseeing food safety and agricultural animal health. They are to make rules, regulations, and enforce the same to protect US consumers and the herd. They are, in effect, managing risk.

There is a risk to importing Canadian product. The USDA even testified to that. Yet, they could not tell the judge to what degree of risk there was. Tam, knowing that degree of risk is their job! How the heck can you manage risk if you don't even bother to quantify it?

That's all I am asking. All I want is the USDA to do their flipping job! I do not want them to get into the habit of just "winging it" because there is money involved. Do the homework, calculate the chances, and MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION! If that is protectionist, so be it.

Yes the USDA 's job is to make rules, regulations, and enforce the same to protect US consumers and the herd. and revise rules when they see fit. And the US cattle producer are to live by the rules but it looks like some in the US are confused. R-CALF thinks they have the right to tell the USDA what rules they can write and the US industry doesn't follow the ones the USDA does writes. Just how many studies would the USDA have to do to satisfy you. How many more chances do you think you should have to comment and delay. Even if the Science said there was no risk to 30 month and under cattle R-CALF wouldn't listen they would just find another reason to keep the border closed. Face it, R-CALF is a group of trade isolationists and they don't care what they have to do to get their way. That is why they LIE and flip flop on every topic. What ever fits the agenda for the day. You claim you want the USDA to do their job well we would like that too. But it is hard to do when you have a "know it all minority group" thinking they can speak for the majority. And when they don't get their way things wind up in Court.

 

[cowsense]

Sandhusker......USDA definately did use due diligance to write the border protocols with Canada...they opened the matter up to both the public and industry for comments (I believe over 3000 submissions) conducted risk assessments on Canada and reviewed OIE guidelines. These reviews formed the basis for the rulemaking procedure and took from spring 04 to Jan. 05 to compile. As for risk both countries are recognized as presenting the same risk (minimal) assessments. What part of this don't you understand? I can hardly wait for your pathetic attempts to spin the facts ......your views are so twisted that they almost belong on the joke page :!:

 

[RobertMac]

BMR: "Sandhusker you say you want the USDA to do their job. Well Inspecting meat and putting the USDA stamp that says it is safe to eat in the USA is their job. R-CALF does not want the USDA to put their stamp on imported meat. Is it to be expected that imported mwat is not safe? Or not inspected? Could it be safer then USA beef because it is imported?"

If you want a USDA stamp on imported meat, foreign processing plants should have a USDA approved HACCP plan in place and USDA inspector in the plants to monitor the plant and assure that the HACCP plan is being followed...just as done in the USA. And then when the meat comes to the USA, it should also be required to be labeled as a product of that country to the USA consumer. Then the consumer has the information to mitigate their risk as they see fit!

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

BMR: "Sandhusker you say you want the USDA to do their job. Well Inspecting meat and putting the USDA stamp that says it is safe to eat in the USA is their job. R-CALF does not want the USDA to put their stamp on imported meat. Is it to be expected that imported mwat is not safe? Or not inspected? Could it be safer then USA beef because it is imported?"

If you want a USDA stamp on imported meat, foreign processing plants should have a USDA approved HACCP plan in place and USDA inspector in the plants to monitor the plant and assure that the HACCP plan is being followed...just as done in the USA. And then when the meat comes to the USA, it should also be required to be labeled as a product of that country to the USA consumer. Then the consumer has the information to mitigate their risk as they see fit!

RobertMac, Canada does have a HACCP plan. The same one as the USA, our regulations mirrior each other. That's what is so strange in R-CALF calling Canada's meat unsafe as we have the same regs as the US and some more stingent ones as well.

 

[HAY MAKER]

BMR: "Sandhusker you say you want the USDA to do their job. Well Inspecting meat and putting the USDA stamp that says it is safe to eat in the USA is their job. R-CALF does not want the USDA to put their stamp on imported meat. Is it to be expected that imported mwat is not safe? Or not inspected? Could it be safer then USA beef because it is imported?"

If you want a USDA stamp on imported meat, foreign processing plants should have a USDA approved HACCP plan in place and USDA inspector in the plants to monitor the plant and assure that the HACCP plan is being followed...just as done in the USA. And then when the meat comes to the USA, it should also be required to be labeled as a product of that country to the USA consumer. Then the consumer has the information to mitigate their risk as they see fit!

RobertMac, Canada does have a HACCP plan. The same one as the USA, our regulations mirrior each other. That's what is so strange in R-CALF calling Canada's meat unsafe as we have the same regs as the US and some more stingent ones as well.

They may seem the same to Canadians,but I believe the differnces are obvious,add the fact it is minus country of orgin and you can see why some are upset.....................good luck

 

[Bill]

BMR: "Sandhusker you say you want the USDA to do their job. Well Inspecting meat and putting the USDA stamp that says it is safe to eat in the USA is their job. R-CALF does not want the USDA to put their stamp on imported meat. Is it to be expected that imported mwat is not safe? Or not inspected? Could it be safer then USA beef because it is imported?"

If you want a USDA stamp on imported meat, foreign processing plants should have a USDA approved HACCP plan in place and USDA inspector in the plants to monitor the plant and assure that the HACCP plan is being followed...just as done in the USA. And then when the meat comes to the USA, it should also be required to be labeled as a product of that country to the USA consumer. Then the consumer has the information to mitigate their risk as they see fit!

http://haccpalliance.org/alliance/members.htm

http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/fssa/polstrat/haccp/coure.shtml

 

[Bill]

BMR: "Sandhusker you say you want the USDA to do their job. Well Inspecting meat and putting the USDA stamp that says it is safe to eat in the USA is their job. R-CALF does not want the USDA to put their stamp on imported meat. Is it to be expected that imported mwat is not safe? Or not inspected? Could it be safer then USA beef because it is imported?"

If you want a USDA stamp on imported meat, foreign processing plants should have a USDA approved HACCP plan in place and USDA inspector in the plants to monitor the plant and assure that the HACCP plan is being followed...just as done in the USA. And then when the meat comes to the USA, it should also be required to be labeled as a product of that country to the USA consumer. Then the consumer has the information to mitigate their risk as they see fit!

RobertMac, Canada does have a HACCP plan. The same one as the USA, our regulations mirrior each other. That's what is so strange in R-CALF calling Canada's meat unsafe as we have the same regs as the US and some more stingent ones as well.

They may seem the same to Canadians,but I believe the differnces are obvious,add the fact it is minus country of orgin and you can see why some are upset.....................good luck

OK Haymensa since you are up on HACCP tell us what the differences between Canada and the US are :roll:

 

[RobertMac]

BRM: "RobertMac, Canada does have a HACCP plan. The same one as the USA, our regulations mirrior each other. That's what is so strange in R-CALF calling Canada's meat unsafe as we have the same regs as the US and some more stingent ones as well."


Then label your product...COOL is an issue that ALL producers world wide should be behind because that is the only way any of us can differentiate the product we produce. The multi-national packers want beef to be beef so they can reduce their cost for live cattle to that of the lowest cost producer...world wide. They don't want the border opened to increase the price of Canadian live cattle, they want to decrease their cost of USA live cattle to that of Canada's...and then take both of us to the level of Brazil. The lesson to be learned from the Canadian situation is that, as producers, we need to be supporting independent processors if we ever expect to be able to control our on destiny...and it may already be too late!

 

[HAY MAKER]

They may seem the same to Canadians,but I believe the differnces are obvious,add the fact it is minus country of orgin and you can see why some are upset.....................good luck

OK Haymensa since you are up on HACCP tell us what the differences between Canada and the US are :roll:

You know what the differnces are,as well as I and I dont have time to try to educate an ole lieing canuckle head this morning ,I been putting off some chores in south TX about as long as I can,Im sure you canuckle heads will miss me this week :wink: ............good luck PS label it!!!!!!!

 

[RobertMac]

BMR: "Sandhusker you say you want the USDA to do their job. Well Inspecting meat and putting the USDA stamp that says it is safe to eat in the USA is their job. R-CALF does not want the USDA to put their stamp on imported meat. Is it to be expected that imported mwat is not safe? Or not inspected? Could it be safer then USA beef because it is imported?"

If you want a USDA stamp on imported meat, foreign processing plants should have a USDA approved HACCP plan in place and USDA inspector in the plants to monitor the plant and assure that the HACCP plan is being followed...just as done in the USA. And then when the meat comes to the USA, it should also be required to be labeled as a product of that country to the USA consumer. Then the consumer has the information to mitigate their risk as they see fit!

Then label it CFIA inspected and Product of Canada...and stop the multi-national packers from blackmarketing your beef to the USA market!

http://haccpalliance.org/alliance/members.htm

http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/fssa/polstrat/haccp/coure.shtml

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

BMR: "Sandhusker you say you want the USDA to do their job. Well Inspecting meat and putting the USDA stamp that says it is safe to eat in the USA is their job. R-CALF does not want the USDA to put their stamp on imported meat. Is it to be expected that imported mwat is not safe? Or not inspected? Could it be safer then USA beef because it is imported?"

If you want a USDA stamp on imported meat, foreign processing plants should have a USDA approved HACCP plan in place and USDA inspector in the plants to monitor the plant and assure that the HACCP plan is being followed...just as done in the USA. And then when the meat comes to the USA, it should also be required to be labeled as a product of that country to the USA consumer. Then the consumer has the information to mitigate their risk as they see fit!

RobertMac, Canada does have a HACCP plan. The same one as the USA, our regulations mirrior each other. That's what is so strange in R-CALF calling Canada's meat unsafe as we have the same regs as the US and some more stingent ones as well.

They may seem the same to Canadians,but I believe the differnces are obvious,add the fact it is minus country of orgin and you can see why some are upset.....................good luck

OK Haymaker point out the "OBVIOUS DIFFERENCES" As HACCP is international in scope. Please point thse out for this poor Canadian.

 

[RobertMac]

BRM, the thing I don't like about HACCP is that it moves the inspector farther from the actual process of inspecting and puts him more as a monitor of the HACCP plan. Positive corrective measures were taken with the increase in E. coli testing by inspectors instead of relying on test results from the plants.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

BRM, the thing I don't like about HACCP is that it moves the inspector farther from the actual process of inspecting and puts him more as a monitor of the HACCP plan. Positive corrective measures were taken with the increase in E. coli testing by inspectors instead of relying on test results from the plants.

Your hard to please RobertMac. First you say you want a HACCP plan then you say you don't like HACCP. Did you check out Bill's link to HACCP? It shows everyone that has signed on to it , USDA CFIA and many others it is not different between countries.

 

[Anonymous]

RM: "Then label your product...COOL is an issue that ALL producers world wide should be behind because that is the only way any of us can differentiate the product we produce."

Absolutely untrue!

Producers nationwide are marketing source verified branded beef products and differentiating their product in the marketplace by brand name, country of origin, you name it.

Differentiating your product in the marketplace does not require a government mandated country of origin labeling law.

RM: "The multi-national packers want beef to be beef so they can reduce their cost for live cattle to that of the lowest cost producer...world wide."

If they wanted beef to be beef, why have they marketed branded beef products or CAB?

Using your logic ("they want beef to be beef"), wouldn't CAB discriminate against beef that did not qualify as CAB?

Once again, the obvious facts shoot your conspiracy theories down in flames.

RM: "They don't want the border opened to increase the price of Canadian live cattle, they want to decrease their cost of USA live cattle to that of Canada's...and then take both of us to the level of Brazil."

That doesn't even make sense

Your arguments contradict themselves.

The closed Canadian border means more fat cattle in Canada than normal and less fat cattle in the U.S. than normal.

If having more fat cattle in Canada allows the packers to pay less for fat cattle in Canada, which it does, it can only mean those packers would have to pay more for fat cattle in the U.S. because there is less U.S. fat cattle available to them.

The closed Canadian border cannot be beneficial to packers in both places.

How can less cattle in the U.S. lead to lower fat cattle prices in the U.S.?

Less fat cattle in the U.S. can only lead to higher prices in the U.S.

SUPPLY AND DEMAND, ever heard of the concept?


If the large packers didn't want the border opened, why did they oppose R-CULT's lawsuit against Canada?

Why did the AMI file suit against USDA to allow the importation of cull cows?


You can't back any of your arguments here Robert. You are just repeating what you heard.



~SH~

 

[RobertMac]

SH: "Producers nationwide are marketing source verified branded beef products and differentiating their product in the marketplace by brand name, country of origin, you name it."

I said "world wide"...please keep up

SH: "Differentiating your product in the marketplace does not require a government mandated country of origin labeling law."

Don't most nations have government mandated country of origin labeling laws???

SH: "If they wanted beef to be beef, why have they marketed branded beef products or CAB?"

Why have they stopped marketing branded beef products?
Thomas E. Wilson ring a bell??????
Why not sell CAB when someone else is doing your marketing for you?
Why not sell Canadian beef as perceived USA when some one else is doing the marketing for you...USA producers through the check-off?

SH: "That doesn't even make sense "...to you,I'm not surprised :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Which country has the most fat cattle?
I'll assume you got that right...the USA.
Which would help packer margins the most...continue to buy cheap Canadian cattle or reduce the price of USA live cattle?
What is the surest way to reduce the price of USA live cattle?
Increase the supply of fat cattle.

SH: "You can't back any of your arguments here Robert."

Why do I have to contradict what you thought I said when you didn't understand what it was I said?

 

[mrj]

RobertMac, what are you doing to correct those HUGE flaws in COOL?

Exemptions of most imported products via Food Service, Restaurant trade, processed and/or cooked product, etc.; Requirement for packers and others to prove origin, but exemption from such proof for producers to name a couple of significant ones, putting it mildly!

MRJ

 

[Mike]

RobertMac, what are you doing to correct those HUGE flaws in COOL?

Exemptions of most imported products via Food Service, Restaurant trade, processed and/or cooked product, etc.; Requirement for packers and others to prove origin, but exemption from such proof for producers to name a couple of significant ones, putting it mildly!

MRJ

USDA recommended procedures for proof of origin:
"Exemption from such proof"?

See link;

http://www.ams.usda.gov/cool/coolbeef.pdf

 

[RobertMac]

RobertMac, what are you doing to correct those HUGE flaws in COOL?

Exemptions of most imported products via Food Service, Restaurant trade, processed and/or cooked product, etc.; Requirement for packers and others to prove origin, but exemption from such proof for producers to name a couple of significant ones, putting it mildly!

MRJ

As soon as I'm anointed King, I'll do away with them. Until then contact your legislators...they wrote the law. Sounds like something R-CALF and NCBA could work on together. :lol:

Everything that is imported except live cattle is identified by country of origin now...the integrity of that label just has to be passed on through the system to the end consumer. Segregation for live cattle and then pass the label on through to the end consumer. If it wasn't imported, then it was born here.

Mike, you must be feeling better...I make it an 'absolute' rule not to drink anything stealth.

 

[Mike]

Robert, I was "well" when I woke up after a short nap today. Felt pretty rough this morning. All's well that ends well. Stealth?

 

[RobertMac]

Stealth?...can't be detected...absolute and fruit juice taste like fruit juice...that is until the next morning :gag: