COOL and Canadian isoweans

[Tex]

You know, one of the things I have commented on is the fact that I think the Packers and Stockyards Act should be enforced even with foreign supplies. Right now, the Walmart model is to screw domestic suppliers and economy and buy from subsidized communist China and elsewhere.

Packers have used lack of competition to pay less for Canadian cattle and at times, the USDA's own failings of price reporting correctly to gain more money than their competitors because they are controlling and know all the prices.

If you Canadians don't get on the band wagon of making packers in the U.S. pay as much for Canadian supplies as U.S. supplies when they sell them for the same amount in our markets, there can be no sympathy for you.

We have laws that protect the markets but they are not being enforced nor are they being applied to foreign suppliers. It reduces prices paid by those with market power and gives them a competitive advantage so they can push everyone else out of the biz.

I wish Congress would get some nads and not allow any large domestic packers the ability to get captive supplies from overseas. Only let the little guys who have small plants under a certain amount of production that have no ability to depress prices.

If the producers on the other side don't want to support such actions, why should I or any other American care what you think?

The packers will use any excuse to give suppliers less money. Make the Packers and Stockyards Act apply to all supplies of meat SOLD in the U.S.:

Sec. 202 (3) It shall be unlawful for any packer with respect to livestock, meats, meat food products, or livestock products in unmanufactured form, or for any live poultry dealer with respect to live poultry, to:

(a) Engage in or use any unfair, unjustly discriminatory, or deceptive practice or device; or

(b) Make or give any undue or unreasonable preference or advantage to any particular person or locality in any respect whatsoever, or subject any particular person or locality to any undue or unreasonable prejudice or disadvantage in any respect whatsoever; or

(c) Sell or otherwise transfer to or for any other packer or any live poultry dealer, or buy or otherwise receive from or for any other packer or any live poultry dealer, any article for the purpose or with the effect of apportioning the supply between any such persons, if such apportionment has the tendency or effect of restraining commerce or of creating a monopoly; or

(d) Sell or otherwise transfer to or for any other person, or buy or otherwise receive from or for any other person, any article for the purpose or with the effect of manipulating or controlling prices, or of creating a monopoly in the acquisition of, buying, selling, or dealing in, any article, or of restraining commerce; or

(e) Engage in any course of business or do any act for the purpose or with the effect of manipulating or controlling prices, or of creating a monopoly in the acquisition of, buying, selling, or dealing in, any article, or of restraining commerce; or

(f) Conspire, combine, agree, or arrange, with any other person (1) to apportion territory for carrying on business, or (2) to apportion purchases or sales of any article, or (3) to manipulate or control prices; or

(g) Conspire, combine, agree or arrange with any other person to do, or aid or abet the doing of, any act made unlawful by subdivision (a), (b), (c), (d), or (e). (7 U.S.C. 192)

http://www.newrules.org/resources/packers.html#202

 

[burnt]

You know, one of the things I have commented on is the fact that I think the Packers and Stockyards Act should be enforced even with foreign supplies. Right now, the Walmart model is to screw domestic suppliers and economy and buy from subsidized communist China and elsewhere.

Packers have used lack of competition to pay less for Canadian cattle and at times, the USDA's own failings of price reporting correctly to gain more money than their competitors because they are controlling and know all the prices.

If you Canadians don't get on the band wagon of making packers in the U.S. pay as much for Canadian supplies as U.S. supplies when they sell them for the same amount in our markets, there can be no sympathy for you.

We have laws that protect the markets but they are not being enforced nor are they being applied to foreign suppliers. It reduces prices paid by those with market power and gives them a competitive advantage so they can push everyone else out of the biz.

I wish Congress would get some nads and not allow any large domestic packers the ability to get captive supplies from overseas. Only let the little guys who have small plants under a certain amount of production that have no ability to depress prices.

If the producers on the other side don't want to support such actions, why should I or any other American care what you think?

The packers will use any excuse to give suppliers less money. Make the Packers and Stockyards Act apply to all supplies of meat SOLD in the U.S.:

Sec. 202 (3) It shall be unlawful for any packer with respect to livestock, meats, meat food products, or livestock products in unmanufactured form, or for any live poultry dealer with respect to live poultry, to:

(a) Engage in or use any unfair, unjustly discriminatory, or deceptive practice or device; or

(b) Make or give any undue or unreasonable preference or advantage to any particular person or locality in any respect whatsoever, or subject any particular person or locality to any undue or unreasonable prejudice or disadvantage in any respect whatsoever; or

(c) Sell or otherwise transfer to or for any other packer or any live poultry dealer, or buy or otherwise receive from or for any other packer or any live poultry dealer, any article for the purpose or with the effect of apportioning the supply between any such persons, if such apportionment has the tendency or effect of restraining commerce or of creating a monopoly; or

(d) Sell or otherwise transfer to or for any other person, or buy or otherwise receive from or for any other person, any article for the purpose or with the effect of manipulating or controlling prices, or of creating a monopoly in the acquisition of, buying, selling, or dealing in, any article, or of restraining commerce; or

(e) Engage in any course of business or do any act for the purpose or with the effect of manipulating or controlling prices, or of creating a monopoly in the acquisition of, buying, selling, or dealing in, any article, or of restraining commerce; or

(f) Conspire, combine, agree, or arrange, with any other person (1) to apportion territory for carrying on business, or (2) to apportion purchases or sales of any article, or (3) to manipulate or control prices; or

(g) Conspire, combine, agree or arrange with any other person to do, or aid or abet the doing of, any act made unlawful by subdivision (a), (b), (c), (d), or (e). (7 U.S.C. 192)

http://www.newrules.org/resources/packers.html#202

Tex, what the heck gives you the right to tell us that we should be making the (American) packers pay more for our cattle (which we gladly would if we could) when you admittedly don't enforce the rules you have in your own country? There can be no sympathy for you, either!!

Therein lies the whole problem - there is no longer enough competition in the marketplace as most of the beef kill is in the hands of 2 or 3 American owned packers. You guys have created a monster due to "overly successful capitalistic spirit", I guess one could say, and as long as that monster was hurting only "foreigners", you were content to let it ravage as it pleased.

So, go get'em tiger and clean up the mess that American companies have created. And I mean right at home. Your own born and bred in the USA companies have turned into economic rapists and you are blaming the victim. And rcalf keeps on handing them the KY jelly. Man you must be proud of yourselves. Once the American producers have had to endure what we have then you might start to understand.

As far as Americans caring what anyone else thinks - well they never did and they never will unless it positively affects their own bottom line.

C'mon big talker, show the rest of the world how it should be done.

 

[Anonymous]

Therein lies the whole problem - there is no longer enough competition in the marketplace as most of the beef kill is in the hands of 2 or 3 American owned packers. You guys have created a monster due to "overly successful capitalistic spirit",

Well you can call it overly successful capitalistic spirit-- but I call it 20+ years of a Corporate Fascism movement in government--that has allowed all these conditions to develop....

 

[RobertMac]

Burnt, who is to blame for two packers gaining 80%+ control of your processing industry??

The concentration of the industry and the market power it gains is the problem we both face. It is small business that has made both our countries great...both our governments have turned their backs to small business in the meat industries.

 

[Tex]

You know, one of the things I have commented on is the fact that I think the Packers and Stockyards Act should be enforced even with foreign supplies. Right now, the Walmart model is to screw domestic suppliers and economy and buy from subsidized communist China and elsewhere.

Packers have used lack of competition to pay less for Canadian cattle and at times, the USDA's own failings of price reporting correctly to gain more money than their competitors because they are controlling and know all the prices.

If you Canadians don't get on the band wagon of making packers in the U.S. pay as much for Canadian supplies as U.S. supplies when they sell them for the same amount in our markets, there can be no sympathy for you.

We have laws that protect the markets but they are not being enforced nor are they being applied to foreign suppliers. It reduces prices paid by those with market power and gives them a competitive advantage so they can push everyone else out of the biz.

I wish Congress would get some nads and not allow any large domestic packers the ability to get captive supplies from overseas. Only let the little guys who have small plants under a certain amount of production that have no ability to depress prices.

If the producers on the other side don't want to support such actions, why should I or any other American care what you think?

The packers will use any excuse to give suppliers less money. Make the Packers and Stockyards Act apply to all supplies of meat SOLD in the U.S.:

Sec. 202 (3) It shall be unlawful for any packer with respect to livestock, meats, meat food products, or livestock products in unmanufactured form, or for any live poultry dealer with respect to live poultry, to:

(a) Engage in or use any unfair, unjustly discriminatory, or deceptive practice or device; or

(b) Make or give any undue or unreasonable preference or advantage to any particular person or locality in any respect whatsoever, or subject any particular person or locality to any undue or unreasonable prejudice or disadvantage in any respect whatsoever; or

(c) Sell or otherwise transfer to or for any other packer or any live poultry dealer, or buy or otherwise receive from or for any other packer or any live poultry dealer, any article for the purpose or with the effect of apportioning the supply between any such persons, if such apportionment has the tendency or effect of restraining commerce or of creating a monopoly; or

(d) Sell or otherwise transfer to or for any other person, or buy or otherwise receive from or for any other person, any article for the purpose or with the effect of manipulating or controlling prices, or of creating a monopoly in the acquisition of, buying, selling, or dealing in, any article, or of restraining commerce; or

(e) Engage in any course of business or do any act for the purpose or with the effect of manipulating or controlling prices, or of creating a monopoly in the acquisition of, buying, selling, or dealing in, any article, or of restraining commerce; or

(f) Conspire, combine, agree, or arrange, with any other person (1) to apportion territory for carrying on business, or (2) to apportion purchases or sales of any article, or (3) to manipulate or control prices; or

(g) Conspire, combine, agree or arrange with any other person to do, or aid or abet the doing of, any act made unlawful by subdivision (a), (b), (c), (d), or (e). (7 U.S.C. 192)

http://www.newrules.org/resources/packers.html#202

Tex, what the heck gives you the right to tell us that we should be making the (American) packers pay more for our cattle (which we gladly would if we could) when you admittedly don't enforce the rules you have in your own country? There can be no sympathy for you, either!!

Therein lies the whole problem - there is no longer enough competition in the marketplace as most of the beef kill is in the hands of 2 or 3 American owned packers. You guys have created a monster due to "overly successful capitalistic spirit", I guess one could say, and as long as that monster was hurting only "foreigners", you were content to let it ravage as it pleased.

So, go get'em tiger and clean up the mess that American companies have created. And I mean right at home. Your own born and bred in the USA companies have turned into economic rapists and you are blaming the victim. And rcalf keeps on handing them the KY jelly. Man you must be proud of yourselves. Once the American producers have had to endure what we have then you might start to understand.

As far as Americans caring what anyone else thinks - well they never did and they never will unless it positively affects their own bottom line.

C'mon big talker, show the rest of the world how it should be done.

Oh, I am not blaming you at all. I know it is the packers who are breaking the law because they have the money and willing politicians who whore themselves out instead of governing a democracy.

I am saying that if you do not recognize that these kind of laws need to be enforced, I have no pity on you or anyone else other than people like mrj who are a few loads shy. There are answers to the industry and you and everyone else needs to support them but first you have to know they exist and push them yourselves.

I spoke to Dr. Alan Love of Texas A&M when he was sent up to whitewash the scam our packers were pulling on Canadians. Dr. Love did a good job on his study and answered the questions he was asked but the right questions were not asked.

I am personally tired of the lies that come from the cattle organizations and the people who support their crap when they do things like this to try to rationalize bad or illegal behavior. If a Canadian will not stand up and say that packers need to follow the PSA on all meat that they source and sell from Canada, I will not have any sympathy for them and neither will I for people like mrj in the U.S. who do the same. The least I can ask if for my country is to label it from Canada or whatever country.

And no, that still isn't far enough.

I blame the U.S. people for allowing these kind of politicians who are nothing more than policy whores to do this to producers in the U.S. and in Canada. It is essentially the worship of money and power instead of moral and ethical, and just ideas. We have people on both sides of the border who are not worthy of holding office and yet we allow them to sell out the free market and justice and then ask the taxpayers to fix the problems they created.

Don't worry, burnt, I do blame myself as much as you so don't think you are alone there.

"C'mon big talker, show the rest of the world how it should be done."

This can't come from one person but I am trying to do my part. It has to be all of us. I will report on my little part of it later but the forces of evil in this world are not being challenged and we are all losers when that happens.

The least you could do is acknowledge the correct direction and push for the same things.

 

[Kato]

This is how they did it.

They moved into Alberta first. Then proceeded to outbid virtually every Canadian processer until one by one they fell. Cargill and friends have the resources to go out and buy their own countries if they like, so this was to them an investment in the future. Spend a little more now, and you can get rid of your competition, and ensure far larger profits in the future.

At the time they did this, the grain freight rates had been eliminated, primarily to pave the way for that one sided agreement we call NAFTA. This left the Canadian grain grower with expenses to get grain to port for export that made export grain a money loser. Therefore to keep from losing their farms they diversified into livestock. They pretty much had no choice. Grow cattle or hogs, or lose the farm.

This ensured a large supply of livestock for said American processors.

So what they did was basically take advantage of a situation where they had access to suppliers who were being broken by the regulation changes required for NAFTA. Suppliers who were left with no option but to take a chance that livestock would keep them from losing their farms.

We could see it coming at the time, but we were really left with no options. It was a perfect setup for the big corporations, and they had no small part in setting it up.

And we were assured by our government and your government that when NAFTA was signed, it would assure that we would have access to the markets that would be necessary for us to survive in this new reality

We were told that America was a country with the integrity to live up to it's word. But I guess we were told a big fat lie, weren't we? We took a chance that we were dealing with honourable people. Was it the right chance to take? Were we dealing with honourable people? You tell me.

What would you do if you were in our places? I would bet you would do just what we did in order to survive.

 

[Tex]

This is how they did it.

They moved into Alberta first. Then proceeded to outbid virtually every Canadian processer until one by one they fell. Cargill and friends have the resources to go out and buy their own countries if they like, so this was to them an investment in the future. Spend a little more now, and you can get rid of your competition, and ensure far larger profits in the future.

At the time they did this, the grain freight rates had been eliminated, primarily to pave the way for that one sided agreement we call NAFTA. This left the Canadian grain grower with expenses to get grain to port for export that made export grain a money loser. Therefore to keep from losing their farms they diversified into livestock. They pretty much had no choice. Grow cattle or hogs, or lose the farm.

This ensured a large supply of livestock for said American processors.

So what they did was basically take advantage of a situation where they had access to suppliers who were being broken by the regulation changes required for NAFTA. Suppliers who were left with no option but to take a chance that livestock would keep them from losing their farms.

We could see it coming at the time, but we were really left with no options. It was a perfect setup for the big corporations, and they had no small part in setting it up.

And we were assured by our government and your government that when NAFTA was signed, it would assure that we would have access to the markets that would be necessary for us to survive in this new reality

We were told that America was a country with the integrity to live up to it's word. But I guess we were told a big fat lie, weren't we? We took a chance that we were dealing with honourable people. Was it the right chance to take? Were we dealing with honourable people? You tell me.

What would you do if you were in our places? I would bet you would do just what we did in order to survive.

No doubt, and that is why I have sympathies for you. NAFTA was created by large companies to do just the kind of things you mention instead of provide free and fair trade.

I am really glad you can articulate the events, Kato. We have to get the big money out of politics or these companies will keep buying them like two dollar whores. I bet half of the politicians are too dumb to know they were selling out and the half that did know found it in their "best interest" not to do anything.

If the PSA was enforced and our politicians really knew how to run an economy justly, one could go after them for all the profits they earned after pushing everyone out. In fact, under the antitrust laws, they wouldn't have been able to capture those markets and have the concentration they have. It seems we have to relearn all the lessons again because of our ignorance or because politicians and judges wish to bend towards corporatism and fascism.

They are too dumb to govern and we are too dumb to vote them out or hold them accountable.

 

[Sandhusker]

Kato, "And we were assured by our government and your government that when NAFTA was signed, it would assure that we would have access to the markets that would be necessary for us to survive in this new reality"

You've lost access to US markets?

 

[busboy]

If I can't sell to several packers (with my 12#, Canadian born iso's), I can't buy them. So yes, MANY Canadian producers have lost American markets.

 

[Sandhusker]

If I can't sell to several packers (with my 12#, Canadian born iso's), I can't buy them. So yes, MANY Canadian producers have lost American markets.

That's not because of a simple truth in labeling law, which is all COOL is. That's because of packers putting the screws to producers to pressure them into submission, and being able to pull it off because of a lack of competition and a lack of law enforcement by government.

 

[CattleCo]

"Consumers want to know where their food comes from. They don't care about isoweans, structure of the industry, etc... they just want to know where their food comes from so they can decide if they trust the source enough to feed that product to their family."

Sandhusker....get in the real world. The Americans could give a rats butt where their food comes from. They want it inspected and cheap!
This animal ID and COOL deal is BS and most people have I figured out.....have you been watching too much Keith Oberman and the other liberal morons on TV? :roll:

 

[Anonymous]

"Consumers want to know where their food comes from. They don't care about isoweans, structure of the industry, etc... they just want to know where their food comes from so they can decide if they trust the source enough to feed that product to their family."

Sandhusker....get in the real world. The Americans could give a rats butt where their food comes from. They want it inspected and cheap!
This animal ID and COOL deal is BS and most people have I figured out.....have you been watching too much Keith Oberman and the other liberal morons on TV? :roll:

You better watch Lou Dobbs and O'Reilly too- both have spoken out IN FAVOR of M-COOL--and Dobbs rants on the FRAUD being perpetrated on US consumers by Packers/Importers, with the assistance of a US government agency....

Since when did promoting FRAUD become such a conservative/Republican supported issue :???:

Since when did giving the US consumers more transparency and information and allowing the US producers a way to promote their product become bad :???:

Since when did telling the TRUTH and ETHICS take a backseat to GREED and short term profiteering. :???:

 

[busboy]

One plant I deal with that is attempting to run different labels shut down for a bit to try to adapt their facilities to handle different origins of product. Not simple. US born and raised. Canadian born and US raised. Don't think they handle Canadian market hogs anymore. Now, try and keep every cut labeled and separate in their cooler....not a huge deal. Now send out car loads and truck loads...not simple, but possible. Now send it to a wholesaler...getting tougher. Now slice and process further, let's see, did it come from that box or that one??? Wrappers are off, meat looks the same (I would argue that the one is of better quality, but we aren't keeping track of that), let's send it to the retailer, let him keep it straight.

Who pays for all that nonsense? When the retailer tells the packer that they don't want to deal with different labels, the packer has to listen. All that nonsense about COOL being so easy to administer is just a bunch of **** put out by either people that know nothing about the meat industry or it's more **** put out by the protectionist folks. It's simply not true.

 

[Sandhusker]

So the packers are howling about how hard it is to segregate beef for COOL. I have to ask they weren't having the same problems segregating beef for the Korean exports?

 

[Sandhusker]

"Consumers want to know where their food comes from. They don't care about isoweans, structure of the industry, etc... they just want to know where their food comes from so they can decide if they trust the source enough to feed that product to their family."

Sandhusker....get in the real world. The Americans could give a rats butt where their food comes from. They want it inspected and cheap!
This animal ID and COOL deal is BS and most people have I figured out.....have you been watching too much Keith Oberman and the other liberal morons on TV? :roll:

So US consumers are fine with malamine tainted product as long as it's cheap and somebody looked at it?

 

[Anonymous]

So the packers are howling about how hard it is to segregate beef for COOL. I have to ask they weren't having the same problems segregating beef for the Korean exports?

Or several other countries under the BEV program...Most of which was going to countries that have had M-COOL for a long time....

 

[busboy]

Did the beef headed for Korea have to go thru' the packer, wholesaler, processor and retailer systems here before it shipped to Korea???? Silly me, I thought they probably sent pretty big chunks over there, mostly direct from the packers.

 

[Tex]

Did the beef headed for Korea have to go thru' the packer, wholesaler, processor and retailer systems here before it shipped to Korea???? Silly me, I thought they probably sent pretty big chunks over there, mostly direct from the packers.

busboy, don't just label it by country, put a date on it too!!! Heck, don't stop there, put a label telling what cut it is. If you can't do all that, perhaps a government job will best suit you.

 

[Sandhusker]

Did the beef headed for Korea have to go thru' the packer, wholesaler, processor and retailer systems here before it shipped to Korea???? Silly me, I thought they probably sent pretty big chunks over there, mostly direct from the packers.

How hard is it to process Canadian cattle on Fridays? How hard is it to copy a label? Good grief. I used to work in a hydraulic pump manufacturing plant where on any given day, we kicked out 50 different model of pumps painted 3 different colors, for 100 different customers with no problems - and the packers claim that it is too difficult for them to keep only 3 or so variations separate? That's a steaming crock.

 

[busboy]

Again, it's not the packers where the problem lies....read my posts. It's the retailer. Did your retail hydraulic pump customers have to keep track and label the pump according to which truck load of iron each piece was made of? Think a little ways beyond the packers whom you so obviously hate.