Define Productive

[Soapweed]

Richard, I assume most all here don't need simplified examples and understand a production bell curve...except us folk in Mississippi. :wink: :wink: :lol: Culling the extremes on both ends moves toward that good, uniform calf crop...culling cows that raise a sorry calf and culling the cow raising the biggest calf when she turns up open.
No offence meant...Merry Christmas!!!!

No offense taken. I get jabbed and I'll jab back

Sometimes when we get bogged down with details, it pays to point out the obvious. It was stated that no matter what, half the herd is below average and most often that is not true. I used a simple example to make my point.

MERRY CHRISTMAS ROBERTMAC!

And then with your example you tangled the web by only offering four head of cattle. :wink: If you had just said five instead, there would be one calf "average," two calves above average, and two below. Never mind, you proved your point. :wink:

 

[katrina]

He quoted some lunatic on his last newsletter lol.

I read that.

Most grain farmers create enough by-products to run cows very cheap. Most of those are lower quality forage's,straw,corn stalks and if they feed the low quality grains it's just another way they make their living. Nothing wrong with your way if your happy but it is'nt the only right way.I sell alot of trailers in North Dakota and Montana and most of my customers have a small grain/ livestock operation that keeps them afloat and viable.

Is'nt a forage a forage cattle that can utilize all aspects of the forage and by-products are just as functional as cows grazeing grass and bale grazeing.

We can run cows cheaper on by-products alot of times cheaper than hay so thats what we'll do. Lowest cost is where we all need to be no matter the route getting there. I would'nt go slamming the people who have 2 jobs plus run cows those people show alot more work ethic than alot of full time Rancher's/internet cowboys.

I don't mean to be gruff but this continued slamming of Farmers and working people is wrong.Were all needed to make the world go round. I used to want to be called a Rancher but being called a farmer does'nt hurt my feelings in the least. As long as I'm not called lazy that I don't like..

well said Denny...there are a few on here that could heed your advice

:agree:

 

[Northern Rancher]

I have no problem with farmers or those with off farm jobs what I do have a problem with is people doing it to support an unproductive cowherd or an iron addiction-there's too much of that going on all over the country. I see farmers with acres of stubble to graze that have their cows locked up in a corral feeding them. There's are MANY outfits up here have more money tied up in iron than they do cattle. Do what you do but it never hurts to rethink your enterprise.

 

[Denny]

Well it's not very common here for cows to be locked up most get fed on hayground all winter spreading out manure.

However why would you have a problem with anyone working an outside job to buy a tractor,skidloader or any other piece of equipment. That would be like me telling you that you can't go hunting on your own money because it bothers me.

 

[Silver]

Personally, I'm quite comfortable with my iron addiction. It means I don't have to rely on local markets that can swing drastically with the year for my feed, and in my case leaves me with a nice warm fuzzy independant feeling.... wether it is justified or not :wink:
I have no problems 'spoiling' my cows with feed, although I can't recall locking them up to feed them.... or ever seeing it done around here for that matter.
I think gcreek hit the nail on the head with his last post, and very little else needs to be said.

Merry Christmas everyone.

 

[flyingS]

I am a little surprised at how many people got their dander up over this thread. I rather enjoyed all of the dicussion, and did not intend it to be provocative. I do have to say that I felt a little bad with Soapweed's accusation of raping the land, he has not even seen my pastures. Lots of interesting input and view points. The thing that was never mentioned is that the average cow herd size in the US is only around 20 to 25 hd. That means there are a hell of a lot more people that own 10 to 15 head than the average 500 to 600 in the Sandhills. I would asume that not much management is going into the majority of the cow herds in the US. Sometimes we get caught up in our own world and forget to look around us. There is always a better way and something to be learned from the worst producers as well as the best. There is nothing wrong with education, just because you don't have any doesn't mean you don't have something to offer. I hope everyone parts with a hand shake and a smile. MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE. TREAT THIS CHRISTMAS SEASON LIKE IT MAY BE YOUR LAST (AS YOU SHOULD EVERY DAY, IT JUST MIGHT BE.)

 

[Northern Rancher]

Making people think is a dangeropus occupation not many will accept the risk. The status quo is the easiest path for sure-I ridiculed a neighbor for bale grazing for years till I pulled my head out of my butt-precancer lol-and tried it. I could care less if people do what I think is profitable-it's easier to put the blinders on-go to cowboy university and wring our hands in anguish-I quit that habit too. I hope everybody grows some grass-pays their bills in '10 and maybe try sneaking one new thought into their operation. God Bless and Merry Christmas.

 

[Soapweed]

I am a little surprised at how many people got their dander up over this thread. I rather enjoyed all of the dicussion, and did not intend it to be provocative. I do have to say that I felt a little bad with Soapweed's accusation of raping the land, he has not even seen my pastures. Lots of interesting input and view points. The thing that was never mentioned is that the average cow herd size in the US is only around 20 to 25 hd. That means there are a hell of a lot more people that own 10 to 15 head than the average 500 to 600 in the Sandhills. I would asume that not much management is going into the majority of the cow herds in the US. Sometimes we get caught up in our own world and forget to look around us. There is always a better way and something to be learned from the worst producers as well as the best. There is nothing wrong with education, just because you don't have any doesn't mean you don't have something to offer. I hope everyone parts with a hand shake and a smile. MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE. TREAT THIS CHRISTMAS SEASON LIKE IT MAY BE YOUR LAST (AS YOU SHOULD EVERY DAY, IT JUST MIGHT BE.)

For the record, I didn't say thay you are doing this FlyingS. As you say, I have not even seen your conditions and operations. What I am saying is that there are some outfits that do and I don't want to be one of them. Merry Christmas, and happy horse tradin' , FlyingS.

 

[Northern Rancher]

While i haven't been to Soapweed's-YET-I've travelled through his country I doublt I'd have to manage that grass-from what I saw it struck me as being a strong grass but growing on very fragile soil-pretty sandy. On our peat grass meadows you casn make a mistake overgrazing and a two inch rain and 20 hours of daylight and it corrects pretty easy. I doubt Soapweed's country is quite as forgiving. silver is my driveway was as long ash yours and my meadows are good I might have a bit of steel hanging around too lol.