Shelly
Well-known member
Oh, and by the way....you're supposed to vaccinate before you get the scours in the calves, not during! After the fact, it's just a waste of money.
Dropped a wad at the local supply store
- Thread starter Shelly
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Jinglebob said:hometowngurl said:What about the LA-200 and the penicillin, the milk replacer and the probis? they ain't cheap ya know.
It takes a women to do the job of 2 men. :wink: :roll:
just jokin'
Don't use any during calving.
If you reach inside to deliver a calf,no matter how clean you are there is always a chance for infection.One dead cow could have paid for a hell of a lot pen. :???: :???:
Northern Rancher
Well-known member
Shelley,Shelley Shelley-of course there's an option-when you calve later you don't need to babysit them-mine are calving when I'm feasting away at the Robin's Egg. Cows calved by themselves for thousands of years it's only the last 50 that we decided they couldn't.
Jinglebob
Well-known member
Northern Rancher said:
I'll be damned! I see i have to agree with NR! :x
What is the world coming too?!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Soapweed
Well-known member
Northern Rancher said:
It has also just been that last fifty years that "we" have decided bulls no longer can adequately service cows by themselves, and that they need "help" from Man by AIing and ETing. Some of us choose to work a little harder calving earlier, and then take life easy during the breeding season. It is a fairly kick back sort of deal to let bulls follow their natural instincts to make sure the cows have calves again the next year.
Neither Canada or the United States are as "free" as they once were, but one thing about it, as ranchers we can all choose how to manage our cow herds. That is what is so satisfying about our calling. As cattle producers, we probably have more independence and freedom than about any other occupations around. We should all enjoy these freedoms to the fullest. If everybody thought just alike, life would be pretty boring. LOL! :wink:
Northern Rancher
Well-known member
I kind of consider heat detecting with my kids to be kicking back-think of me when your shaking the ice of your 'stache in calving time lol. I don't like working hard at any time of the day or night lol.
Shelly
Well-known member
I don't like calving in January and February, either, but time wise, it's best for us. And you know, you can't describe the feeling you get of a job well done when every one of those calves are born, and you had a hand in it one way or another. Sure, it may be harder when it's as cold as it gets, but it's satisfying work. And I'll spend whatever it takes in money to make sure each and every one of those calves live. Yes, it was $1090, but I'm over the shock now.
Northern Rancher
Well-known member
Just save enough coin to buy me pie at the Robin's Nest lol.
pappy
Member
Hey if you buy duflex tags you get a free tagger when you turn in an old one. Savings of about $30. :roll:
A
Anonymous
Guest
Soapweed, did you think that you could use natural service on your cows, AND calve later? :shock: :lol: Isn't that like having your cake and eating it too?
We can have a humdinger of a storm in late April around here, but I sure like leaving the cows out of sight on grass when we are able to. Life is good then. There is enough to worry about without making problems. Cows calving in 2 acres just "breeds"(pun intended) problems. Cows in a corral lose their mothering abilities, and just pain lose all instincts they ever had.
Of course that is one mans opinion, and he has known to be wrong once or twice. :shock:
My last thought is that cows seem to have the least problems calving by themselves when they are closest to straightbred. We did the Semi. deal once, and it caused us to put down too many cows. That is why I will stick with Angus for now. They are so trouble free for the most part, that is it almost shameful. ALMOST. lol.
We can have a humdinger of a storm in late April around here, but I sure like leaving the cows out of sight on grass when we are able to. Life is good then. There is enough to worry about without making problems. Cows calving in 2 acres just "breeds"(pun intended) problems. Cows in a corral lose their mothering abilities, and just pain lose all instincts they ever had.
Of course that is one mans opinion, and he has known to be wrong once or twice. :shock:
My last thought is that cows seem to have the least problems calving by themselves when they are closest to straightbred. We did the Semi. deal once, and it caused us to put down too many cows. That is why I will stick with Angus for now. They are so trouble free for the most part, that is it almost shameful. ALMOST. lol.
Soapweed
Well-known member
All I know is that the worst scours wreck we have had in recent years was seven or eight years ago, and it was on the last hundred head that came in late April and May. We ended up losing about ten percent of those calves, and doctoring them didn't seem to help. They were calved out on a clean pasture, to boot.
Scours are more scared of cold snowy ground than they are of spring rains and mud. Guess there will always be trade-offs, but I rather enjoy selling fairly heavy calves in the fall because they have a month or two advantage in age.
Scours are more scared of cold snowy ground than they are of spring rains and mud. Guess there will always be trade-offs, but I rather enjoy selling fairly heavy calves in the fall because they have a month or two advantage in age.
Jason
Well-known member
We start calving Jan 1, the yearling bulls are easier to sell than a hard pushed April calf that isn't mature enough to get the job done.
The last several years January has been better weather than Feb or Mar.
I have some later cows calving in April and if it is wet they suffer more than the calves born in January.
The first bunch are A.I bred so we know which cows to put in the barn, close the doors and no night checking unless it is -35 then they might need some time in the heat box. Even at that temp usually 1 check at midnight is sufficient.
This year I turned out the bulls for Feb 15 calving, so might have a few I have to guess on to put in or not.
I wouldn't ever try to convince anyone that they should stop vaccinating if it works for them. It just didn't work for us. The tests showed the vaccine wasn't the strain that we had. We would have had to formulate a new vaccine, and the selenium was far easier.
The last several years January has been better weather than Feb or Mar.
I have some later cows calving in April and if it is wet they suffer more than the calves born in January.
The first bunch are A.I bred so we know which cows to put in the barn, close the doors and no night checking unless it is -35 then they might need some time in the heat box. Even at that temp usually 1 check at midnight is sufficient.
This year I turned out the bulls for Feb 15 calving, so might have a few I have to guess on to put in or not.
I wouldn't ever try to convince anyone that they should stop vaccinating if it works for them. It just didn't work for us. The tests showed the vaccine wasn't the strain that we had. We would have had to formulate a new vaccine, and the selenium was far easier.
cowzilla
Well-known member
Soapweed; You said you had your cows on clean pasture when the calves got scours. What do you think caused the problem?
Soapweed
Well-known member
cowzilla said:
I have no idea but it was a wreck. We had given the whole herd Scourgard 3KC a couple weeks before calving started in late February. This helped most of the way through, but we should have re-vaccinated the late calvers. I think had we done this, that the late scours would have been averted. The next year we made sure to re-vaccinate about the first of April and had no trouble. Since then we make it a point to re-vaccinate the late ones and have no problems.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Soapweed, there must have been some unknown factor that caused the scours. I just have very rarely heard about anyone around here having calves that were born on clean grass scour. That is a lot of the reason we do calve later. We gave scour shots to our coming 2's once, and that was the worst scour problem we have had. We seem to have a few 2's every year that have calves that scour, but it is usually easily treated. Haven't lost one for a long time. To tell the truth, I don't think it is normal to have to give a cow a scour shot. I'm not saying you shouldn't, because I can see that it does benefit you. Maybe your sandy country has more loose ground that somehow gets ingested into the calves. I have seen calves eat dirt when they were hurting. Like I said, we all have to change to fit our environment, but it just doesn't seem normal to me? :???:
Northern Rancher
Well-known member
Don't vaccinate for scours at all-haven't had any need too-touch wood-my total antibiotic bill on 500 plus head is usually under 20 bucks total. Never -we do have a pretty agressive vaccination program on our calves-but we quit giving scour vaccine when we started calving later. I did the big calf thing for about twelve years-was just too muchj fun to stand-my last set of early calves averaged 798 in the third wek of August so trust me we can grow them big if we feel like it. Can't wait till I can start hauling my grass calved-hay fed bulls back down to Wyoming-it was always a fun and profitable trip.
hometowngurl
Well-known member
I agree with you soapweed, about the vaccination, but I have seen calves eat sand just cus they are bored too. And the scours can come at anytime,cold and dry or wet and muddy, anytime is usually when you are really busy and got to fit in the usual for them babies. them little stinkers will try just about anything to eat when they are bored. :!: :!: :wink:
Faster horses
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If you keep a good mineral out that the calves can get to, I guarantee you the calves will eat that instead of sand.
We've been the route and back with sick and scouring calves. We had pristine conditions too, and they still got sick. My comment as to why calves scour is that their immune system is not up to parr. We don't get scours any more, we haven't for 12 years now and weather conditions here are not nearly as good as when the calves got sick. Personally, I don't think weather has all that much to do with it. And I speak from personal experience. It's all about the immune system.
We calve towards the end of March for 45 days. We don't give scour shots and we don't have to doctor sick calves. Our cattle have a good immune system and they seem to take care of the problem on their own.
It's a great relief, I tell ya. We doctored calves for 8 years straight and most of 'em we doctored more than once.
Mineral. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
We've been the route and back with sick and scouring calves. We had pristine conditions too, and they still got sick. My comment as to why calves scour is that their immune system is not up to parr. We don't get scours any more, we haven't for 12 years now and weather conditions here are not nearly as good as when the calves got sick. Personally, I don't think weather has all that much to do with it. And I speak from personal experience. It's all about the immune system.
We calve towards the end of March for 45 days. We don't give scour shots and we don't have to doctor sick calves. Our cattle have a good immune system and they seem to take care of the problem on their own.
It's a great relief, I tell ya. We doctored calves for 8 years straight and most of 'em we doctored more than once.
Mineral. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Soapweed
Well-known member
We have had a fairly aggressive full-time Darling mineral program in recent years, and rarely do we have any sick calves. There must be a correlation. Perhaps we could now get by without giving scour shots, but since they seem to work I'll probably keep giving them. About ten years ago, the last year that we didn't give pre-calving Scourgard shots, sickness in baby calves was a nightmare I'd not care to repeat. The vaccinations are somewhat of a hassle before calving, but as they say, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I would also like to put in a good word for the Pfizer drug company. Since we have started using all Pfizer products, we have had virtually no sick calves at any time of the year.
A couple days ago, while checking out a vest pocket, I found a funeral folder from June 9, 2004. I recall visiting with a rancher that day, who had gone to June calving for all the right reasons. They were having a total wreck with scour problems, and he didn't seem just real impressed with the June calving. They were calving on clean ground in big pastures, and doctoring the calves was a real hardship.
Through a lifetime of Sandhill ranching, I have seen a lot of sick scoury calves by going to different brandings in May. Personally I think scours thrive a lot more under warm and wet conditions than they do in the cold and snow.
A couple days ago, while checking out a vest pocket, I found a funeral folder from June 9, 2004. I recall visiting with a rancher that day, who had gone to June calving for all the right reasons. They were having a total wreck with scour problems, and he didn't seem just real impressed with the June calving. They were calving on clean ground in big pastures, and doctoring the calves was a real hardship.
Through a lifetime of Sandhill ranching, I have seen a lot of sick scoury calves by going to different brandings in May. Personally I think scours thrive a lot more under warm and wet conditions than they do in the cold and snow.
Soapweed
Well-known member
On the subject of scours, this incident is recalled. It was about thirty years ago when two different local ranchers went down south and brought home a big stock trailer full of goats. They each got half of the goats, and they ran them with their cows. The reason was that the goats were supposed to prevent scours in baby calves.
Dad was visiting with one of the ranchers one day at the post office, and he asked about how all this worked. The rancher, explaining the situation with up-to-date sound science, proclaimed, "No self-respecting germ will hang around a goat." :wink:
Dad was visiting with one of the ranchers one day at the post office, and he asked about how all this worked. The rancher, explaining the situation with up-to-date sound science, proclaimed, "No self-respecting germ will hang around a goat." :wink:
