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Gerald Fry?????

OH I have quack grass in my home pasture too,produces great BUT I said HOME pasture.... it gets into everything,gardens,lawn grass,ect.Definetly a weed.
 
The quackgrass sucks in this area. Our water table is so close to the surface that it gets root bound almost immediately, but it still won't hold the soil together. Most of my pens will grow quack throughout the summer when they aren't used, but it only takes about a day of pen use until its solid dirt again.

Rod
 
Faster horses said:
With a great mind like yours, I am sure you will come up with plan B! :shock:
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Is that sarcasm I'm hearing? :mad:

:lol:

With the amount of water laying in my pens, I needed a boat to clean them this year. We tried getting in industrial loaders and they sank right outta sight :( Next spring, I'll need to buy a whack of corral panels and set up new pens otherwise I'll have calves floating into the shelter....

Rod
 
Rod, weeds are an indication of lack of fertility...after years of crop farming, what do you expect? Higher class of plants require higher fertility. To maintain or develop grassland, you have to manage your land as grassland...herd effect. Fertilize part of one of your pastures and see where your cows stay.

Two problems with going to an all grazing operation...it requires more management to insure your cattle have something to eat year round(which includes feeding them hay when needed)...second, ruminant-hog genetics that dominate North American cattle genetics don't work...been there, done that! Combine those two and you get the ugly situations you are seeing.

NR, I talked to Gearld about breeding two year old heifers. Part of his thinking was for a total grassfed operation. Raise the heifers the same as meat steers, expose them and preg check in 45-60 days. Heifers that weren't bred would be finished and ready for slaughter...better cash flow. As I'm sure you'll agree, I told him that if I waited until two to breed, they would all be bred! He also said that at two they would be more sexually developed, but isn't that what we are looking for by breeding as yearlings...early maturity? He also sighted research that claimed a longer reproductive for cows that were bred later.

Robert
 
By breeding as two's you miss the opportunity to sell your opens or undesireable's into the feeder market-a 30 month old open heifer doesn't sell for much here. As for being more wexually developed how developed do you need. Most of us have had heifer calves get bred so can't see the reasoning behind waiting for two years. I'm sure Mr. Fry is a compelling speaker but he hasn't really impressed me with his writings as of yet. Don't kid yourself there are plenty of North American genetics that will work on grass-if you bother looking for them.
 
Northern Rancher said:
By breeding as two's you miss the opportunity to sell your opens or undesireable's into the feeder market-a 30 month old open heifer doesn't sell for much here. As for being more wexually developed how developed do you need. Most of us have had heifer calves get bred so can't see the reasoning behind waiting for two years. I'm sure Mr. Fry is a compelling speaker but he hasn't really impressed me with his writings as of yet. Don't kid yourself there are plenty of North American genetics that will work on grass-if you bother looking for them.
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NR, I was talking about marketing the heifer as grassfed beef...believe me, her meat will bring more than in any conventional market...hassle factor excluded! :?
I disagreed with Gearld on this breeding and told him so, but that doesn't mean that he still doesn't have a lot to offer.
There are North American genetics that will work on grass, but you have to look hard...in "seedstock". :wink:
 
The grassfed beef movement needs some sort of grading sysatem for it to move from the farmer's market-back of the half ton type of marketing. Dylan and Colleen Biggs have been involved in raising and marketing it for years(that's where Kit Pharo got his inspiration) and they can testify to the trials and tribulations. I helped gather a couple hundred pairs that Gerald had culled from this operation-good strong cows-every one with a calf and i'm sure all bred back. The problem with guys like him they are selling genetics and they only way to do that is to convince you that yours aren't satisfactory.
 
Northern Rancher said:
The grassfed beef movement needs some sort of grading sysatem for it to move from the farmer's market-back of the half ton type of marketing. Dylan and Colleen Biggs have been involved in raising and marketing it for years(that's where Kit Pharo got his inspiration) and they can testify to the trials and tribulations. I helped gather a couple hundred pairs that Gerald had culled from this operation-good strong cows-every one with a calf and i'm sure all bred back. The problem with guys like him they are selling genetics and they only way to do that is to convince you that yours aren't satisfactory.
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Do you know the criteria that was used for culling?

I've heard Gearld speak several times and the thrust of his presentation is that you, the commercial cattleman, have quality, adapted genetics in your herd that you need to identify and perpetuate.
 
Northern Rancher said:
The grassfed beef movement needs some sort of grading sysatem for it to move from the farmer's market-back of the half ton type of marketing. Dylan and Colleen Biggs have been involved in raising and marketing it for years(that's where Kit Pharo got his inspiration) and they can testify to the trials and tribulations. I helped gather a couple hundred pairs that Gerald had culled from this operation-good strong cows-every one with a calf and i'm sure all bred back. The problem with guys like him they are selling genetics and they only way to do that is to convince you that yours aren't satisfactory.
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"The economics of the registered industry thrives on motion, commotion and promotion of difference in order to sell illusion that descends from confusion" Larry Leonhardt
 
RobertMac
Did G. Fry explain how to go about perpetuating these genetics?

He wrote an article called the" Constitution of a Superior Bull", I read it and was so confused at what he was saying, that I finally called a knowledgable friend to help me sort it out. We basically felt that what he was trying to achieve, he was going about it all backwards.
 
RobertMac said:
Rod, weeds are an indication of lack of fertility...after years of crop farming, what do you expect?
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Not always an indication of lack of fertility, especially not on the piece of dirt that I've let "return to nature". Every year, while it was being farmed, soil analyses were done and the necessary fertilizers added to ensure that the soil was maintained. I've seen 120 bushel/acre oat crops that were polluted underneath with thistle. And in this country, you don't grow 120 bushel/acre oat crops without a pile of fertilization.

The problem stems from years and years of deep ploughing. Many hard shell seeds, thistle being the most predominant and toughest, were turned under and left buried anywhere between 9 and 15 inches below the soil. Over the years, these seeds have slowly worked their way up to the topsoil where they've sprouted. Without either weed clipping, or sprays, the plants simply mature and re-seed. Additional fertilizer simply helps the process along.

Long and short of it is that possibly, some day in the future, someone may be able to convince a range grass to take over, but its going to take alot of work to make it happen, not just simply running a tandem disk over the soil and waiting for something good to happen.

Rod
 
Yes we have adapted genetics that we don't need to pay Mr. Fry to cull for us. I tend to value advice from my peers who've made their living ranching in my area-not the latest expert trotting out some warmed over Bonsma theory.
 
Northern Rancher said:
We haven't used spray for years and we've got our thistles-pretty much under control-not a radical enviromentalist but I am terminally cheap.
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I'm not saying you have to spray to keep thistle under control, however you have to do SOMETHING. They either need to be clipped before going to seed (popular with the organic grain guys). Neighbor switched to organic grain farming 15 years ago. He clips each year and still has a thistle problem.

Or they need to be worked up before going to seed, and this needs to be done year after year until no more seeds are present in the soil. Who wants their land sitting unproductive until its cleaned up? Even if it only takes 5 years (and my money says no chance), its 5 years of no productivity. Nobody in Saskatchewan can afford that.

Or another, more competitive crop needs to be sown that will choke it out until the grass can take over. And even then, you'll need to tend to it. Thistle stands will need to be clipped or they will take over, regardless of fertility.

What you cannot do is till the soil once, and hope that something good comes up. And thats all I'm debating.
 
How about not tilling at all and using pasture rest and grazing-there hasn't been bare ground on our place in 15 years or more. As for a competitive crop a vigerous stand of grass competes as good as anything I've found.
 

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