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I'm new to farming and need some expert advice.

for those who asked: No I'm not a Stack Wagon jockey. There are 4 or 5 jockeys out there and they plan on doubling the price of a machine for a little tweaking. I'd try to avoid them.

Rayko, a disc mower will be the heart and soul of your hay biz. Some dealer in N Carolina was selling Ford/New Holland 85 hp with cab and mfwd for 38K on ebay (new).
 
Hi Brad S.

Thanks for the information. I've been looking at mowers, and I like your recommendation for a disc mower, they really seem like a good way to go. Pretty straight forward design, easier and cheaper to repair over a sickle mower, and cutting blades are easily re-sharpened or replaced.

However, I've found that you can get disc mowers in two variations. The first being a straight disc mower, that would require the purchase of an adjustable windrow rake to create the necessary windrows prior to baling. And as an alternative, the second type of disc mower being a Disc Mower/Conditioner/Windrower all in one machine.

It seems that this type of equipment cuts, conditions and then creates a suitable windrow at the rear discharge of the machine. (The windrow discharge is fully adjustable to suit the baling equipment.) And, the conditioners are available two different ways, one being a pair of molded rollers which tend to crush the harder hay stems, and the second being a flail type which tends to remove the waxy stem film and break the hay stems open. Both types of conditioners tend to enhance the drying process by permitting the hay stems to dry at a similar rate as the leaves. At least that's the way its supposed to work in theory...

The convenience of doing all operations in one pass is quite interesting, and the cost of the disc/conditioning equipment isn't too much more than a disc mower and the additional adjustable windrow rake.

Your thoughts and ideas would be greatly appreciated. I'm open to every idea out there..

Thanks again for your continued input and help....

Best Regards
Rayko
:D
 
Rayko, Unless you have weather that is very low humidity you won't be able to windrow and bale directly behind the cutter/windrower. It will not get dry fast enough and then you risk getting it wet if it rains.

We open the gates on the back of the cutter so that more surface area will get dry, then tedder it the next day when the dew dries and sometimes bale it that evening or the next day.

You will still need a rake.
 
Rayko, Unless you have weather that is very low humidity you won't be able to windrow and bale directly behind the cutter/windrower. It will not get dry fast enough and then you risk getting it wet if it rains.

We open the gates on the back of the cutter so that more surface area will get dry, then tedder it the next day when the dew dries and sometimes bale it that evening or the next day.

You will still need a rake.
 
Yeah, what Mikey said. In the Houston area, you're gonna be good friends with a rake. For a smaller acrage you only need a single rake like an old New Holland or JD in that order btw, the large double hydraulic rakes are great, but you don't need one. You may decide that you want a rake that is hydraulic or pto powered instead of ground powered, but $500 to $800 will buy a real functional NH or JD 5 or 6 bar ground driven basket rake. Hell, buy 2 so if 1 goes down you have a backup - you can always get the money back if you buy them right.

Disc Mowers are pretty simple, but the parts can get expensive - like everything else I guess. I saw a 12' Vermeer mower/windrower in real good shape cost $2500 last spring. Look arround if you have time, and keep track of your milage -its deductible.

For a steel building check out J&I mfg out of Madil Ok, they beat anyone else's prices I've seen. Idiot blocks need a shed to sell to your neighboirs riding $25,000 cutters. Be carefull as most hay is sold cash - as in presidents. If you're not meticulous, some of your income may uh slip your accountant's attention (wink).

If you can, go to several farm auctions and visit with old guys that will expound on why this NH rake is superrior or inferrior. It'll be half horse$hit, but you cn sort it out. btw, from now on, spare everyone the candor that you needn't operate at a profit. It rankles some, besides, a profit really is one way of keeping score.

Rayko, I like your approach to exploration, you're going to do fine.
 
Rayko said:
Hi Northern Rancher:

I had no idea you could do that! So dealers will actually rent out equipment for us folks to "test drive" before we buy? That's so cool....

Thanks so much for the advice. When the time comes for us to actually cut something up, we'll make sure to look into the "rent before you buy" idea..

Thank you so much.
:)
Click to expand...

Rayko- Check with your accountant--many of the large and corporate operations around here don't own any machinery- lease it all...Keeps them with updated machinery and claim they get a bigger tax break than buying......
 
Thanks for the great information.... You all have been so helpful in so many ways.... I'm truly overwhelmed.

RE: The Cutter/Conditioner/Windrower: I'm sorry if my last post was unclear... That was my fault... It is my understanding that the "disc mower/conditioner/windrower" only cuts and lays the hay out in a suitable windrow (which is fully adjustable in width)... The Baling equipment "does not" follow behind this cutter/windrower in order to complete the baling operation... The cut hay is allowed to lay out on the ground and dry out for as long as necessary until appropriate moisture levels are reached (which could be several days etc.), and only then, is the baler used to gather up the windrows and bale the hay. (I don't know if this makes a difference to some of the thoughts that you have shared with me? But I wanted to add the clarity that I didn't include in my prior post... Sorry about that.)

Our summers in the Houston area can be so sunny and hot, that despite the higher humidity levels (60-80%), the hay seems to dry very quickly in the hot sun. I've seen some farmers bailing within 24 to 48 hours of cutting. Other times when its been very cloudy and overcast, a few extra days were needed.

"Brad S." Thanks so much for all the great information... I'm sorry, but I didn't understand what you were trying to say in the sentence when you referred to "Idiot Blocks", can you help me with that one.

Also, I never meant to imply that I wasn't concerned about making a profit from my farming operation. In fact, I'm very concerned about it and am trying to do everything possible to insure that it does make a profit. It was never my intention to create a "Hobby Farm", but rather to create a business enterprise that eventually made economic sense.

To that end, I've contacted various University Agricultural Extensions around the country, and studied their Agricultural Economic Research Documents, and downloaded copies of their Farming Cash Flow Studies. --In addition, I've run numerous Proformas under various business scenarios specific to my own farming operation, along with various MonteCarlo studies.

I have learned that farming is one tough business, and I truly am impressed, and very much in awe, with those who can make it work.

The 20 acres that I have to work with only compounds my financial concerns for the business. As a result, I have to utilize current tax laws in order to have my endeavor begin to make financial sense for us. So, some of the decisions that I will have to make regarding my farm operation are more dictated by tax planning necessities rather than "common sense". -- I have a dictionary that defines our Government "bureaucracy" as "the adherence to inflexible rules, and complex procedures that impede effective action... in American useage it is invariably derogatory." I couldn't have said it better myself....

On another point you make regarding "income shrinkage" when you operate a "cash business". Your point is well taken, and it must be a common problem, along with extending credit to customers, because I have received numerous "words of wisdom" from a wide variety of sources, on those issues. Thanks again for your candid information.

I feel like a giant sponge trying to absorb as much information and wisdom as you kind folks are willing to share. If we are a success at this business enterprise, it will be in no small measure to all the help and advice that you all have provided.

Thanks again to you all of your helpful contributions to our effort.

Best Regards,

Rayko
:D
 
Thanks for the definitions for "idiot blocks" and the "$25,000 cutter". I'm sure I'm going to run into a lot of "phrases" that I don't understand. I just hope that folks don't start refering to ME as the "idiot block" or the "block idiot" as the case may be.

It looked as if "Jersey Lilly" is on the floor laughing after Tibbs' posting....

But, I really have to say, that this site has been absolutely fantastic in every way... You folks have been absolutely wonderful in the way you have freely shared your ideas, thoughts, concerns and suggestions.

I visit a number of other sites, and NONE OF THEM comes close to the friendly helpful support that this site, and you kind folks, have provided.

You guys and gals are great !!!!!!!!!!

Rather than suggest that "enough is enough as far as the advice goes".. I would hope that anyone reading the progress of this series of posts would be encouraged to add their thoughts and ideas too.

You really can't get "too much" information. The more the better.

I'm a firm believer in the old adage.... "When facing a problem... Start doing research... And, with enough research, the solutions to the problem eventually become self-evident."

Thanks again....

Fondest Regards to you all.....

Rayko
:D
 
We're all so friendly...
That's funny!
Don't go wandering into the bull session between Haymaker and Miss Tam or SH and Sandy! Or a few others for that matter!
Good luck Rayko and have a good night all!
 
Alabama said:
Well 20 acres won't pay for your equipment. However you will need some equipment just to maintain your land so a 75 horse John deere tractor in good condition you will need anyway. Spend $18,000 or so on one in good shape with low hours (about 1200 hours.) You will need some type of cutter like say a 6 foot light duty pasture clipper to keep things cleaned up. Or if your place is rough around the edges get a rino TW72 model bushhog. To cut hay you will need a Hay cutter that you can get new for $5000 or used for $1500. Get used if you can work on it your self. if you can't rebuild it with a book then buy new. Some sort of rake whitch you can get used for $500 and a bailer that should run about $25,000 of used for $2000. You may be able to buy some used hay equipment from someone that is quiting the small hay business and get it cheep.
Number one: Get a good tractor. If it ain't yellow and green you don't want it.
Number two. rent the hay field or put up small square balis and sell to horse folks. hot and you will need a hay barn and a hay truch. more $$$

Number 3: Have a good time and buy more land. Or raise a few cows and sell the calves when finshed to people you know as packeged beef.

And most of all: Buy your hay.
Click to expand...

Dont buy no John Deere yuck what you really what is a BELARUS they run cheap and you can buy them right and they are real workhorses.Bama you need to get you a RED RUSSIAN also.
 
Rayko, keep your humility, but never give up your confidence. Hell yes the neighbors are going to call you the block idiot or whaatever - especially when you succeed. Guys that learned to succeed in one venture can usually carry that formula to another venture. The formula is mostly damn hard work with good dirrection, and the way you ask 3 new questions for each answer, you're putting in the effort to educate yourself. Natural curiosity is very helpful here also.

Sorry to show my vernacular with idiot blocks and cutters. Terry Bradshaw's Circle12 is near you and they raise cutters (cutting horses). I know a local guy that was hauling alfalfa down to the Houston area, and he ended up selling Bradshaws some hay with blister beatles in it. Blister beatles almost always kill a horse that eats one, and 4 died at Bradshaws. Anymore, alot oof guys feed grass instead of alfalfa because its safer.


AlsoI'm glad to hear I misunderstood about your haying being a hobby vs professional ventures. At my house, every trade has to stand on its own, farming/feeding/brood cows/trucking/risk mgmt - if you couldn't graze it, I'd never plant anymore wheat.
 
Denny said:
Alabama said:
Well 20 acres won't pay for your equipment. However you will need some equipment just to maintain your land so a 75 horse John deere tractor in good condition you will need anyway. Spend $18,000 or so on one in good shape with low hours (about 1200 hours.) You will need some type of cutter like say a 6 foot light duty pasture clipper to keep things cleaned up. Or if your place is rough around the edges get a rino TW72 model bushhog. To cut hay you will need a Hay cutter that you can get new for $5000 or used for $1500. Get used if you can work on it your self. if you can't rebuild it with a book then buy new. Some sort of rake whitch you can get used for $500 and a bailer that should run about $25,000 of used for $2000. You may be able to buy some used hay equipment from someone that is quiting the small hay business and get it cheep.
Number one: Get a good tractor. If it ain't yellow and green you don't want it.
Number two. rent the hay field or put up small square balis and sell to horse folks. hot and you will need a hay barn and a hay truch. more $$$

Number 3: Have a good time and buy more land. Or raise a few cows and sell the calves when finshed to people you know as packeged beef.

And most of all: Buy your hay.
Click to expand...

Dont buy no John Deere yuck what you really what is a BELARUS they run cheap and you can buy them right and they are real workhorses.Bama you need to get you a RED RUSSIAN also.
Click to expand...

You can get parts for a JD. That means a lot with hay on the ground.
If it ain't yellow and green you don't want it.
 
Alabama said:
Denny said:
Alabama said:
Well 20 acres won't pay for your equipment. However you will need some equipment just to maintain your land so a 75 horse John deere tractor in good condition you will need anyway. Spend $18,000 or so on one in good shape with low hours (about 1200 hours.) You will need some type of cutter like say a 6 foot light duty pasture clipper to keep things cleaned up. Or if your place is rough around the edges get a rino TW72 model bushhog. To cut hay you will need a Hay cutter that you can get new for $5000 or used for $1500. Get used if you can work on it your self. if you can't rebuild it with a book then buy new. Some sort of rake whitch you can get used for $500 and a bailer that should run about $25,000 of used for $2000. You may be able to buy some used hay equipment from someone that is quiting the small hay business and get it cheep.
Number one: Get a good tractor. If it ain't yellow and green you don't want it.
Number two. rent the hay field or put up small square balis and sell to horse folks. hot and you will need a hay barn and a hay truch. more $$$

Number 3: Have a good time and buy more land. Or raise a few cows and sell the calves when finshed to people you know as packeged beef.

And most of all: Buy your hay.
Click to expand...

Dont buy no John Deere yuck what you really what is a BELARUS they run cheap and you can buy them right and they are real workhorses.Bama you need to get you a RED RUSSIAN also.
Click to expand...

You can get parts for a JD. That means a lot with hay on the ground.
If it ain't yellow and green you don't want it.
Click to expand...

You can get parts for these russians 2 days maximum.At a price thats affordable. :P
 
Denny said:
Alabama said:
Denny said:
Dont buy no John Deere yuck what you really what is a BELARUS they run cheap and you can buy them right and they are real workhorses.Bama you need to get you a RED RUSSIAN also.
Click to expand...

You can get parts for a JD. That means a lot with hay on the ground.
If it ain't yellow and green you don't want it.
Click to expand...

You can get parts for these russians 2 days maximum.At a price thats affordable. :P
Click to expand...

What kinda nit wit,would compare Belarus to John Deere ,too funny :D .........good luck
 
HAY MAKER said:
Denny said:
Alabama said:
You can get parts for a JD. That means a lot with hay on the ground.
If it ain't yellow and green you don't want it.
Click to expand...

You can get parts for these russians 2 days maximum.At a price thats affordable. :P
Click to expand...

What kinda nit wit,would compare Belarus to John Deere ,too funny :D .........good luck
Click to expand...

A LOW COST PRODUCER THAT WILL BE RANCHING WHEN YOU PAINT LOVING FOOLS WILL BE TITS UP. :lol2:
 

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