Is this the end of brands?

[lightninboy]

I heard on the radio something about NAIS would replace branding.

One thing I've got against NAIS is: did you ever see all of your ear tags stay in the ears?

 

[Stav Ranch]

I guess it is the same with Rodeo...we all have valid points but we need to get as vocal as the tree huggers are! Our voices need to be heard...our message needs to get out there too.

Problem is we are ranchers....we don't have the money to put towards advertising and promoting the amazing jobs we all do with our animals. We need to find some supporters with the money and promote ourselves. Anyone know some movie star who is on our side?

As for that Japan thing where they can see a picture of our places...holy crap would that cause a stir around this place! :shock: Is that true for Canadian exports as well?

Stav Ranch -

 

[WyomingRancher]

I guess it is the same with Rodeo...we all have valid points but we need to get as vocal as the tree huggers are! Our voices need to be heard...our message needs to get out there too.

Problem is we are ranchers....we don't have the money to put towards advertising and promoting the amazing jobs we all do with our animals. We need to find some supporters with the money and promote ourselves. Anyone know some movie star who is on our side?

As for that Japan thing where they can see a picture of our places...holy crap would that cause a stir around this place! :shock: Is that true for Canadian exports as well?

Stav Ranch -

Mike Rowe would be a good candidate .

Oh, your place would really get excited if the equivalency of the Japanese Dep't of Ag stopped by for a random audit. It's all a part of a source verification program we market through, so unless you agree to it, you won't be bothered :wink: .

 

[loomixguy]

"Cold Case" guy Bill Kurtis owns Tallgrass Beef in Sedan, Kansas. You'd think he would be a good voice for the cause.

 

[okfarmer]

There was a story a while back about Canadian cattle that were stolen that had their national ID tags but what caught the thief was the brands. The tags were cut off or out.

This issue goes way deeper than source verification. Everyone of you that enjoy what your doing better start raising your voices as loud as you can about this junk. If all this goes through, you will have big head aches ahead.

And it is not about the availability of technology- it is how it is used or forced to be used.

 

[Stav Ranch]

So true okfarmer so true[/quote]

 

[mrj]

All you guys with computers who post here could also post your own ranch stories of how you raise your cattle on consumer web sites, you know!

Join NCBA and get the training in how to do it! The MBA project is available over the internet and is doing a great job of training many, especially the younger, ranchers to do just that! MBA means Masters of Beef Advocacy. And, no, I haven't taken it.....yet. Need to get more computer savvy first so it doesn't take all my time.

btw, what about brands that are the same in one state as another, how do those 'compute' where the state of origin is not available? Just pointing out there are problems with brands for ID, too. SD, for instance, has only half the state, and my guess is less than half the cattle, in our brand area, which is only west of the MO river.

For the record, this proposal is NOT the same as NAIS. I realize those of you who are either john birchers or see black helicopters often are not going to believe that, but I share this is for those who are just ranchers tending to business.

mrj

 

[LazyWP]

All you guys with computers who post here could also post your own ranch stories of how you raise your cattle on consumer web sites, you know!

Join NCBA and get the training in how to do it! The MBA project is available over the internet and is doing a great job of training many, especially the younger, ranchers to do just that! MBA means Masters of Beef Advocacy. And, no, I haven't taken it.....yet. Need to get more computer savvy first so it doesn't take all my time.

btw, what about brands that are the same in one state as another, how do those 'compute' where the state of origin is not available? Just pointing out there are problems with brands for ID, too. SD, for instance, has only half the state, and my guess is less than half the cattle, in our brand area, which is only west of the MO river.

For the record, this proposal is NOT the same as NAIS. I realize those of you who are either john birchers or see black helicopters often are not going to believe that, but I share this is for those who are just ranchers tending to business.

mrj

Obviously you aren't from a brand inspection area, for if you were you would know that if cattle cross a state line or leave a brand inspection area, need to have a brand inspection. That piece of paper states where the cattle originated from. Not only does the producer/buyer keep a copies, but the inspection office also does.
Just look at the TB outbreak in Nebraska. It took them less then 48 hours to figure out where all of the cattle had come from.

No, brand laws aren't perfect, but they are sure better then anything anyone has come up with so far.

 

[Soapweed]

All you guys with computers who post here could also post your own ranch stories of how you raise your cattle on consumer web sites, you know!

Join NCBA and get the training in how to do it! The MBA project is available over the internet and is doing a great job of training many, especially the younger, ranchers to do just that! MBA means Masters of Beef Advocacy. And, no, I haven't taken it.....yet. Need to get more computer savvy first so it doesn't take all my time.

btw, what about brands that are the same in one state as another, how do those 'compute' where the state of origin is not available? Just pointing out there are problems with brands for ID, too. SD, for instance, has only half the state, and my guess is less than half the cattle, in our brand area, which is only west of the MO river.

For the record, this proposal is NOT the same as NAIS. I realize those of you who are either john birchers or see black helicopters often are not going to believe that, but I share this is for those who are just ranchers tending to business.

mrj

I kind of think of myself as a regular old rancher trying to tend to business. If the NCBA is against brands and brand inspection, they are about to see me pull my membership. I've belonged for quite a few years, to them and the Nebraska Cattlemen. Both outfits have got my hackles up because they are trying to be "politically correct" and seem to be no longer listening to their grassroots constituents.

As far as duplicate brands in adjoining states, it's never been a big problem yet. With a proper paper trail, everything seems to work out just fine. Why in the heck are some people messing with a system that has worked for many centuries. If it ain't broke, for heck's sake don't try to fix it.

Ear tags are fine for in herd identification. They are fine for value added branded beef programs. They are NOT FINE for proof of ownership. If the "powers that be" force this down our throats, rustling will run rampant. It is a wreck looking to happen. Mark my words. By the way, I was just as right on the horse slaughter ban boondoggle that is taking place. Anyone with a lick of sense can see the writing on the wall. Unfortunately, the ones that have the foresight to figure this kind of stuff out ahead of time don't seem to be the ones that call the shots.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

All you guys with computers who post here could also post your own ranch stories of how you raise your cattle on consumer web sites, you know!

Join NCBA and get the training in how to do it! The MBA project is available over the internet and is doing a great job of training many, especially the younger, ranchers to do just that! MBA means Masters of Beef Advocacy. And, no, I haven't taken it.....yet. Need to get more computer savvy first so it doesn't take all my time.

btw, what about brands that are the same in one state as another, how do those 'compute' where the state of origin is not available? Just pointing out there are problems with brands for ID, too. SD, for instance, has only half the state, and my guess is less than half the cattle, in our brand area, which is only west of the MO river.

For the record, this proposal is NOT the same as NAIS. I realize those of you who are either john birchers or see black helicopters often are not going to believe that, but I share this is for those who are just ranchers tending to business.

mrj

I kind of think of myself as a regular old rancher trying to tend to business. If the NCBA is against brands and brand inspection, they are about to see me pull my membership. I've belonged for quite a few years, to them and the Nebraska Cattlemen. Both outfits have got my hackles up because they are trying to be "politically correct" and seem to be no longer listening to their grassroots constituents.

As far as duplicate brands in adjoining states, it's never been a big problem yet. With a proper paper trail, everything seems to work out just fine. Why in the heck are some people messing with a system that has worked for many centuries. If it ain't broke, for heck's sake don't try to fix it.

Ear tags are fine for in herd identification. They are fine for value added branded beef programs. They are NOT FINE for proof of ownership. If the "powers that be" force this down our throats, rustling will run rampant. It is a wreck looking to happen. Mark my words. By the way, I was just as right on the horse slaughter ban boondoggle that is taking place. Anyone with a lick of sense can see the writing on the wall. Unfortunately, the ones that have the foresight to figure this kind of stuff out ahead of time don't seem to be the ones that call the shots.

I don't think the RFID tags are meant to phase out branding. Use it for proof of ownership and number brand for in herd use if you want. The proposed ID is for disease trace back if a outbreak happens. If foot and mouth or something else is discovered at say the packing plant it doubles the chances of finding where that animal has been as they know who is getting paid for it and with the RFID they will know where the animal started out. It makes filling in the blanks that much easier. :?

 

[Lonecowboy]

there is a reason- read this carefully:



http://xstatic99645.tripod.com/naisinfocentral/id8.html


I'd sure like to know what you think about this info.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

there is a reason- read this carefully:



http://xstatic99645.tripod.com/naisinfocentral/id8.html


I'd sure like to know what you think about this info.

Your starting a different debate. What does that have to do with the end of branding?

 

[LazyWP]

I still contend that all you have to do is look at the recent TB outbreak here in Nebraska. TB was found at the packing plant, was traced back to one ranch in north central Nebraska, that had brought in cattle from other parts of the world. It took them less then 48 hours to do that. The same can be said for the Mad Cow uproar.
Like I said before, the brand laws aren't perfect. Mainly because not everyone is required to brand!

 

[Lonecowboy]

there is a reason- read this carefully:



http://xstatic99645.tripod.com/naisinfocentral/id8.html


I'd sure like to know what you think about this info.

Your starting a different debate. What does that have to do with the end of branding?

a motive for doing away with a traditional practice of using brands and addresses that has served us well for centuries. I don't believe the people behind this are dumb- I believe they are calculating!
if not why not register as a "property"- why stick to this word choice?
not a new debate at all, just a deeper exploration of the one at hand!

 

[Soapweed]

Article from The Cattle Business Weekly, August 10, 2011

Hot issue: Elimination of branding

http://www.cattlebusinessweekly.com/main.asp?Search=1&ArticleID=3708&SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&S=1

 

[mrj]

Lazy WP, I am from a brand inspection area, and thought most here would understand that. I do understand the "leave the area rules", having used them often enough. I've attended, as an interested party several meetings of the International Brand Conferences in past years.

We most definitely DO support brand laws. As I believe NCBA does.

Personally, I can see that an ID number such as proposed, and many already use IN ADDITION TO brands, can stay with the carcass, unlike a brand, thereby making it FASTER to follow and contain any disease outbreak that threatens the CATTLE business OR the BEEF business, OR the CONSUMER.

I believe that is a GOOD thing. I believe it is a good additional tool, and is very useful for people who want to verify their committment to age and source verification.

I also believe it should not be mandatory and that those who choose NOT to use it can market their cattle without the 'absolute' verification of ownership.

I also know that there are some whom I would kindly call Luddites (those who oppose that which they do not understand, and/or new practices they erroneously FEEL might eliminate their jobs). I do not necessarily see that as part of the reasoning here, but it sure is on the part of the link 'lonesome' posted!

Soapweed, I'm sorry you feel that way about NCBA, and NE Cattlemen, but I sure haven't heard or seen anything indicating that they are in any way going against brands and brand inspection. It is a local and state program, crossing state lines very effectively IN THE WEST. I'm not sure it works all that well across the whole country. And it can't possibly work after the carcass has the hide removed and is comingled with others.

I have, since the beginning of anti-food animal activism, seen how NCBA has been fighting the HSUS, PETA and others who are promoting the end of branding and I darn sure intend to support that.

What other "politically correct" issues are you referring to? The only place I see anything that might be taken that way is in the environmental stewardship awards, and that is since partnering with NRCS, for one thing. And I'm not even sure it is there, just that so many of the eastern outfits are bought into fencing out the creeks, but they have hundreds of years of human pollution which they are cleaning up, so maybe they need it back there. It may be that one organization for cattle producers from the entire nation sometimes focuses on things western cattlemen don't believe necessary, but in those areas with so darn many people, it is a whole different world than our very close to pristine range lands. You can see it on the extreme east edge of both out states, IMO. The cattle aways get the blame for pollution, but densely popluated areas get a pass when their sewage systems overflow and end up with raw sewage in rivers and streams, unlike the feedlot guys who pay huge fines.

BTW, the Cattle Bus. Weekly is a pretty good outfit, but sometimes they do come out with a more 'stimulating' version of a story than is warranted. We all should read the proposal, talk to our state brand and animal health officials, and find out the facts, THEN act accordingly.

I realize branding is good at what it does, UNTIL the hide is off and the carcasses are co-mingled in a BIG packing plant. Then it worries me from a human health standpoint as well as animal health.

mrj

 

[Frisco]

Does the id tag, premise number, RFID stay with with carcass through processing? Or are those carcasses not co-mingled at the big packing plants? Just asking, I truly don't know.

 

[mrj]

I don't have direct proof, but logically, they CAN follow through. I don't know how many of them do, but there has to be some way to identify a carcass, maybe even individual cuts, for instance those in a grid price situation, for many reasons from who gets the benefit of quality, what meat goes into CAB, and more.

mrj

 

[LazyWP]

You can identify a carcass all the way through the packing plant now, and always have been able to. It requires the packer to do a little more work, but that isn't what they want.
30 years ago, we sold cattle on grade and yield, that means that they have to be able to identify where the carcass came from.
If you think that the microchip is the only way to track a carcass, you are buying into the idea, and propaganda that the packers and activist are selling.

 

[mrj]

Lazy, I'm not "buying" anything! I simply do not have the FACTS on the question. Unlike some, I hesitate to post something that is not accurate.

While knowing it can be done, I don't know how carcasses are identified and tracked after the hides are off. It seems REASONABLE that some ID chips may be WITHIN the ear similar to how a growth implant is. What system is used HAS to be able to withstand the speed of normal work in a given plant.

Does any ranch owner/operator "want" to do necessary paperwork? I don't think so!!! Some do understand that there are benefits to their own bottom line in doing so to understand just where the money is going instead of "just knowing" someone must be ripping them off. POINT: packers also understand the value of "value added" carcasses being worth more to themselves as well as to the producer and feeder who bring them in, and that it pays them pays them for that extra work.

mrj