Isn't COOL great?

[RobertMac]

I'm having trouble understanding things...R-CALF is all powerful and capable of manipulating the beef industry of two countries, but, on the other hand, R-CALF is stupid and never won a court case??????

 

[Sandhusker]

Kato, you said we could of worked together on this packer concentration problem, but what was your plan? What were you doing? All I saw was just playing into their hands, just like you're doing now,.

 

[burnt]

I'm having trouble understanding things...R-CALF is all powerful and capable of manipulating the beef industry of two countries, but, on the other hand, R-CALF is stupid and never won a court case??????

You are wrong on the first point and correct on the second.

rcalf is stupid, too stupid to realize that it played directly into the packers hands.

Kinda like the village idiot that doesn't realize that he has been used and wonders why he is the laughingstock of those who used him . . .

 

[RobertMac]

I'm having trouble understanding things...R-CALF is all powerful and capable of manipulating the beef industry of two countries, but, on the other hand, R-CALF is stupid and never won a court case??????

You are wrong on the first point and correct on the second.

rcalf is stupid, too stupid to realize that it played directly into the packers hands.

Kinda like the village idiot that doesn't realize that he has been used and wonders why he is the laughingstock of those who used him . . .

What does it say about Canadian producers who built their beef industry based on export markets through these same packers? Surely you realize the common denominator in your problems and ours. Global packers will always use supply to keep the price of raw product under control when there are no viable alternatives to producers.

 

[don]

there is a common denominator and it could have been pursued but r-calf followed a totally misguided strategy that the packers were able to subvert and use to their advantage. now r-calf is left in the position of having helped the american cattle producer not one bit and bullard can keep yapping. r-calf, like every other organization that pretends to be for producers, has accomplished nothing and a huge amount of equity has been transferred from producers to packers on both sides of the border.

 

[Sandhusker]

Don, "there is a common denominator and it could have been pursued..."

And what was that?

 

[don]

the lack of competition in the slaughter and processing sector. instead you decided you could raise your prices by lowering ours. you increased your own competition and so your prices have weakened as well. all you've done is put us in the position of leading you down.

 

[don]

btw the canadian cattle org's, by doing nothing (to their shame) have accomplished just as much in the packer competition issue as you have. you've been totally ineffective so bullard and co. decided to distract from the failure with a phony cool issue.

 

[Anonymous]

btw the canadian cattle org's, by doing nothing (to their shame) have accomplished just as much in the packer competition issue as you have. you've been totally ineffective so bullard and co. decided to distract from the failure with a phony cool issue.

AMEN don on the Canadian Cattle orgs...They are now buying the stockyards fancy wall size computer monitors with your checkoff money so they can promote their propoganda- and you can more easily see yourself going broke :roll:

As far as the changes in the US cattle industry- I"m not ready to throw in the towel- as I think we're just starting to win the battle with some new blood coming into USDA- new thinking in Congress...But its an uphill battle when groups like the ABP/CCA and their whore sister down here- NCBA- fight tooth and nail for the multional packers and against the producers...

The problem exists and started with NAFTA and the FTA's and the fact they were written by and for certain industry Lobbyiests with the Multinational corporations making sure they were the ones that was cutting the fat hog in the arse--and that the little guys/producers were sucking hind teat....Be it beef, hogs, chemicals, pharmaceuticals,--etc. etc...
Doesn't matter what portion of these FTA's you look at- some multinational industry was meant to prosper- while some were meant to get put out of business.....

Government-managed trade, not free trade

Milton Friedman-economic advisor to both Presidents Nixon and Reagan- has argued that the North American Free Trade Agreement is actually not a "free trade" agreement, but rather is government managed trade. The essence of this criticism is that such trade agreements don't promote free trade, they inhibit it by implementing another level of bureaucracy on top of national governments. This can not only have a detrimental effect on trade, it results in an erosion of sovereignty for all nations involved and causes citizens and governments to be bound by decisions made by an unelected international body.

 

[Sandhusker]

the lack of competition in the slaughter and processing sector. instead you decided you could raise your prices by lowering ours. you increased your own competition and so your prices have weakened as well. all you've done is put us in the position of leading you down.

And what was your idea(s) for increasing competition? I'm sorry, Don, but I don't remember any plans coming from up there. On the contrary, everytime you guys had a chance to gig 'em, you declined! Where was the support for your own producer owned packing plant? Where was the support of private BSE testing? Both of those issues would of stuck them good - and the latter would of also allowed you to pick up markets that our "leaders" were content to give to Australia. Where was the outrage when your goverment gave those same packers huge bailouts?

Put yourself in our boots, look to the North, and tell me what you guys did that would give us the impression that you were prepared to address the packer concentration issue?

And we didn't lower your prices. We still don't have COOL down here. The packers are just hosing you again so that you'll do their work for them to get rid of COOL so they can continue to hose you in the future like they've been hosing all of us in the past. Instead of whing about R-CALF, why aren't you talking to your politicians demanding action against the packers for an unjustifiable haircut on price?

We need COOL to survive the coming wave of South American beef - and YOU DO TOO! Just what are you going to do when Tyson starts rolling in SA beef and selling it to your countrymen at a price that you can't even produce it for? What's the plan, don?

 

[don]

boo hoo, boo hoo. cry me a river. and yes the silly cool law that you got did lower our prices. fewer plants will slaughter canadian and especially from the eastern prairies because of the costs associated with bringing canadian animals or product in. your cool effort has turned into a huge fiasco and many people could see it coming. maybe r-calf should compensate american producers for their part in lowering cattle prices on your side of the line. it can certainly be argued that the effort to keep canadian cattle from being imported strengthened the hand of the big packers north of the line.

 

[Kato]

Where was the support for your own producer owned packing plant?

We, and a lot of our friends and neighbours all invested in various new plants.

Where was the support of private BSE testing?

Among producers the support has always been there. From day one.

Unfortunately, our government caved in to American pressure to not test. Our government has been slower than it's citizens to realize that American interests are American interests, and concern for anyone in this country is non existent in your government. That's the way it's always been, but sadly, our (or is that your?)lackeys in Ottawa haven't woken up and smelled the coffee yet. They had the misguided notion that to go it alone would somehow curtail our export business to the U.S. What a joke! Testing or not, it would still happen.

We were told by our so called trading partners back in pre NAFTA days that if we didn't have a trade agreement, we would be vulnerable to a closed border for any convenient reason. We were told by our so called trading partners back in pre NAFTA days that we needed to give up our safety nets, our grain transportation subsidies, and any other form of protection in order to get that all important U.S. export market. We were told by our so called trading partners back in pre NAFTA days that if we had an agreement that we would have access to your markets, and you would have access to ours on a FAIR basis.

What a crock! You guys had no intention of doing anything that might be considered as not being a total American win win situation. We have learned since those days that as soon as the U.S. agrees to anything, that special interest groups within the country will systematically dismember it until it wasn't worth doing in the first place. Whoever you trade with will lose, and that is that. This is why you have so many friends. :? Canada is not the only country in the world who has learned this lesson.

Our biggest challenge now is to convince our government to see the fact that the U.S. is not to be trusted.

 

[Anonymous]

Kato- do you remember who set the precedent involving cattle trade barriers :???:

After the passage of NAFTA and prior to bse the canadians lobbyied their government and had a complicated and lengthy blue tongue barrier put into place, so cattle traffic became essentially one way (everything south). A rule the US scientists said was unrealistic for much of the country..
Amazing- how that all became less difficult and less important after BSE and trade ( not health) negotiations. :wink:

I was sold the same liine of bull about NAFTA and supported it all the way-thinking the workings with Canadian feedlots and their large supply of barley could be great-until I saw how special interest groups could manuever and manipulate the trading- and limit/influence the direction cattle trading was going to take place....

Thats when many in the states decided they better belong to a special interest group that was working to protect their interests and cover their butts...

Government-managed trade, not free trade

Milton Friedman-economic advisor to both Presidents Nixon and Reagan- has argued that the North American Free Trade Agreement is actually not a "free trade" agreement, but rather is government managed trade. The essence of this criticism is that such trade agreements don't promote free trade, they inhibit it by implementing another level of bureaucracy on top of national governments. This can not only have a detrimental effect on trade, it results in an erosion of sovereignty for all nations involved and causes citizens and governments to be bound by decisions made by an unelected international body.

 

[Broke Cowboy]

Kato- do you remember who set the precedent involving cattle trade barriers :???:

After the passage of NAFTA and prior to bse the canadians lobbyied their government and had a complicated and lengthy blue tongue barrier put into place, so cattle traffic became essentially one way (everything south). A rule the US scientists said was unrealistic for much of the country..
Amazing- how that all became less difficult and less important after BSE and trade ( not health) negotiations. :wink:

I was sold the same liine of bull about NAFTA and supported it all the way-thinking the workings with Canadian feedlots and their large supply of barley could be great-until I saw how special interest groups could manuever and manipulate the trading- and limit/influence the direction cattle trading was going to take place....

Thats when many in the states decided they better belong to a special interest group that was working to protect their interests and cover their butts...

You always bring up blue tongue like it is a Canada and US issue - but if my memory serves me correctly there are states in your own country that have the same restrictions - so in this case - it may very well be that you are the pot calling the kettle black.

If your own country can do it to you - why would you expect it to be different if you cross an international border?

Or is it simply convenient for you to ignore this?

Trade is not free and never has been despite the acronym. Our family has never supported NAFTA

BC

 

[Anonymous]

R-CALF United Stockgrowers of America


"Fighting for the U.S. Cattle Producer"



For Immediate Release Contact: Shae Dodson-Chambers, Communications Coordinator
October 19, 2009 Phone: 406-672-8969; [email protected]



Canada, Mexico $1.3 Billion Short of Claiming COOL Harm

Group Tells USDA, USTR



Billings, Mont. – In a letter sent Friday that contains trade data compiled by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA), 17 R-CALF USA officers, directors and committee chairs informed Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack and U.S. Trade Representative Ron Kirk that unless Canada and Mexico can demonstrate that the U.S. country-of-origin labeling (COOL) law has reduced the value of their combined exports of live cattle and beef to the U.S. by more than $1.3 billion, those countries cannot even claim that COOL has caused them any economic harm. Both Canada and Mexico have challenged the U.S. COOL law in a complaint filed with the World Trade Organization, with Canada's most recent complaint filed Oct. 7, 2009, and Mexico's filed Oct. 9, 2009.

R-CALF USA's letter contends that economic harm must be measured from a balanced trade relationship and explains that the reason Canada and Mexico cannot begin to measure an economic harm "is because these combined countries continue to enjoy the unmitigated, windfall spoils emanating from an imbalanced trade relationship with the United States, to the tune of $1.3 billion annually."

The charts and data in R-CALF USA's letter demonstrate: 1) during the past five years, the U.S. accumulated a $6.6 billion deficit in the trade of live cattle, beef, beef variety meats and processed beef in its trade relationships with Canada and Mexico, representing an annual average loss in domestic cattle sales of $1.3 billion; 2) the U.S. imported nearly $1 billion in slaughter cows, bulls, steers and heifers from Canada and Mexico in each of the past two years, which represents a direct one-for-one replacement for nearly $1 billion per year in domestic cattle sales and serves to reduce the demand and price of domestic cattle.

"U.S. cattle producers are now suffering the severe consequences of a long-term trade imbalance in which we import each year from Canada and Mexico more than $1 billion more than we export to those countries," wrote R-CALF USA CEO Bill Bullard. "To make matters worse, our global trade deficit is even greater, amounting to $1.6 billion in 2008. This is unsustainable and it is causing tens of thousands of U.S. cattle f armers and ranchers to exit the industry. COOL is the only available tool the U.S. cattle industry has to even begin to rebalance the lopsided trade relationships with Canada and Mexico because neither USDA nor the U.S. Trade Representative (USTR) have taken any affirmative steps to mitigate the untenable and prolonged trade imbalance with these two countries.

"For the first nine months of this new Administration, we have witnessed: 1) record financial losses for independent U.S. cattle feeders; 2) rapidly falling cattle prices for hundreds of thousands of U.S. cattle backgrounders, stockers and cow/calf producers; 3) near-record beef prices paid by U.S. beef consumers; and, 4) no action on the part of USDA or USTR to take any effective steps to mitigate the horrific losses sustained in Rural America due to untenable trade policies that include the failure to protect our U.S. cattle herd from disease," the letter points out.



In closing, the letter makes a strong appeal to Vilsack and Kirk: "It is not enough that you have jointly stated that you intend to defend COOL against Canada's WTO complaint. We need both of you to begin defending the interests of this nation's cattle farmers and ranchers by restoring their opportunity to be profitable in the U.S. cattle industry. U.S. cattle farmers and ranchers do not have deep enough pockets to withstand the persistent economic drain caused by failed trade policies, and time is fast running out."



# # #

R-CALF USA (Ranchers-Cattlemen Action Legal Fund, United Stockgrowers of America) is a national, non-profit organization dedicated to ensuring the continued profitability and viability of the U.S. cattle industry. R-CALF USA represents thousands of U.S. cattle producers on trade and marketing issues. Members are located across 47 states and are primarily cow/calf operators, cattle backgrounders, and/or feedlot owners. R-CALF USA directors and committee chairs are extremely active unpaid volunteers. R-CALF USA has dozens of affiliate organizations and various main-street businesses are associate members. For more information, visit www.r-calfusa.com or, call 406-252-2516.

 

[Anonymous]

Kato- do you remember who set the precedent involving cattle trade barriers :???:

After the passage of NAFTA and prior to bse the canadians lobbyied their government and had a complicated and lengthy blue tongue barrier put into place, so cattle traffic became essentially one way (everything south). A rule the US scientists said was unrealistic for much of the country..
Amazing- how that all became less difficult and less important after BSE and trade ( not health) negotiations. :wink:

I was sold the same liine of bull about NAFTA and supported it all the way-thinking the workings with Canadian feedlots and their large supply of barley could be great-until I saw how special interest groups could manuever and manipulate the trading- and limit/influence the direction cattle trading was going to take place....

Thats when many in the states decided they better belong to a special interest group that was working to protect their interests and cover their butts...

You always bring up blue tongue like it is a Canada and US issue - but if my memory serves me correctly there are states in your own country that have the same restrictions - so in this case - it may very well be that you are the pot calling the kettle black.

If your own country can do it to you - why would you expect it to be different if you cross an international border?

Or is it simply convenient for you to ignore this?

Trade is not free and never has been despite the acronym. Our family has never supported NAFTA

BC

Yep-- "states" not the old "All US CATTLE ARE DISEASED"... For years US scientists/Vets said the barrier against all US cattle was not appropriate- and should not be on cattle from many parts of the states....

And ironically- when Candadas tit got in the wringer over BSE- WALLAH- miracuously the disease all of a sudden got much less important when Canadians wanted the border opened to allow cattle from BSE herds to go south.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

I was just reading on another cattle chat site where a Canadian seedstock producer was asking if US producers would buy Canadian cattle/bulls-- but like a neighbor of mine answered back- a two way trade in those cattle was never allowed to develop like it was supposed to- and we were told would when we were being told how great NAFTA would be- mainly because of that one way traffic rules Canada stuck in place afterward...

Funny how Canada told no one pre NAFTA about all these restrictions they were going to put on...

But thats water under the Bridge... I just wanted Kato to remember who set the precedent tho in her ranting against Americans...
And if Canada can stick on rules and regs against what cattle come north or south-- the US should be able to pass laws saying how our meat/food is labeled....
Just like Kato doesn't want to live under US rules- we don't want Canadians telling us how we can or cannot label the food/meat we sell in our country....
A little issue called sovereignty...

 

[Sandhusker]

Don," fewer plants will slaughter canadian and especially from the eastern prairies because of the costs associated with bringing canadian animals or product in."

What costs?

 

[don]

inspections, documentation. what do you think? play your silly little game of ignorance but you guys screwed up. it's costing us and it's costing american cattlemen. the cattle cycle is screwed and the actions of r-calf have only strengthened the packers grip on the value chain. you have pitted ranchers against ranchers and let the packers off for free. you criticize the canadian situation but your industry is relatively more concentrated. by now it's obvious cool won't keep out foreign product; it only gives the packers an excuse to pay less offshore and take their profits there. your feet must be getting awfully sore from all those gunshot wounds.

 

[RobertMac]

The US government and the Canadian government makes deals (NAFTA) with global food corporations that dictate our future in the name of low food prices. Producers have lost control of our industry.

 

[Sandhusker]

inspections, documentation. what do you think? play your silly little game of ignorance but you guys screwed up. it's costing us and it's costing american cattlemen. the cattle cycle is screwed and the actions of r-calf have only strengthened the packers grip on the value chain. you have pitted ranchers against ranchers and let the packers off for free. you criticize the canadian situation but your industry is relatively more concentrated. by now it's obvious cool won't keep out foreign product; it only gives the packers an excuse to pay less offshore and take their profits there. your feet must be getting awfully sore from all those gunshot wounds.

Documentation for what? It's sold under the same damn label as US - just like it always has! Nothing has changed!