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Isn't COOL great?

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Kato, "Canadian cattle who spend their lives living in American feedlots and have been fed, handled, and slaughtered in an American plant become American beef. It's as simple as that. 99% of problems that can happen with beef happen at the plant or later, so why on earth would we let a foreign country put our name on one of their screwups? You guys talk about giving up control to foreign countries, so why can't we? If we process it, we'll claim responsibility, but if someone else processes it and screws it up, then it's not our fault, so why would we accept the blame? "

I hate to point this out to you, Kato, but it appears that your definition of origin completely agrees with R-CALF's .
 
Kato said:
So then you agree that if it's processed in your country it's your beef? :shock:

Go figure.......... 8)
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And he laughs at us for processing oranges and calling the orange juice a product of Canada :roll:
 
Kato said:
Drop BORN, and we've got a deal. :p

That's all we ask.
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Nope-- if they were in that country-- like born there-- and probably there til weaning-- that should be part of the label.....
How more transparent can you get than Born in Canada- fed in and slaughtered in the US :???:
Or even product of Canada and the US :???:

Or do you prefer to keep up the current trend of LYING to consumers - of BOTH countries in order to further stuff the pocket books of the MULTINATIONAL PACKERS :???:
 
elwapo said:
I was talking to a very well respected cattle buyer in our area on the weekend and he said that with the dollar approaching parity we can expect thousands of calves coming into feedlot alley in Southern Alberta from Montana and other northern states this fall. The dollar and the fact that we are expected to be down a million plus calves in Canada this year means that the feedlots will pull calves from the south to make up the shortfall.
Us Canadians ranchers have to realize that many of the American cattlemen and women would rather have us totally gone. They will never work with us because they have tunnel vision. We producers have been reduced to mangy coyotes fighting over scraps of a dead cow.
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I have so many responses and this whole thread makes me even angrier.. :mad: :mad:
But you are SOOOOOOOOOO RIGHT ELWAPO...
 
First of all I want to say that I would give you the shirt off of my back for the canadian ranchers...... And I'm not being a butthead when I ask you in all honesty why don't you get your own packing plant and compete agains the states for beef exports... Is there no small ground movement to support your beef??? My mom always said there is more ways than one to skin a cat.... If I was getting the shaft, I certainly wouldn't stand by and take it year in and year out...... Is it the goverment that has your hands tied?? What is it????

Okay........ Back to the coffee shop for me..... I just don't know, can't understand why.......
 
katrina said:
First of all I want to say that I would give you the shirt off of my back for the canadian ranchers...... And I'm not being a butthead when I ask you in all honesty why don't you get your own packing plant and compete agains the states for beef exports... Is there no small ground movement to support your beef??? My mom always said there is more ways than one to skin a cat.... If I was getting the shaft, I certainly wouldn't stand by and take it year in and year out...... Is it the goverment that has your hands tied?? What is it????

Okay........ Back to the coffee shop for me..... I just don't know, can't understand why.......[/quote


The bottom line was that Canada had a bse problem real or perceived, and Tyson took advantage of it. They bought a plant in Canada and bought Canadian beef at depressed prices then packaged that beef as if it was U.S. beef, pocketing the difference between the low prices paid to Canadian producers and the undiscounted prices they received by delaying COOL and packaging it as if there were no difference. It always help to have a few politicians in your pocket to do this.

The Packers and Stockyards Act should have been applied to them in this situation regardless of their international supplies and they should not have been able to pay Canadians less if they got the same price for their packaged products in the U.S..

They are playing games at the expense of producers both domestic and foreign and buying up the industry in the process. These kind of games will continue until our legislators get some nuts and do their job and until federal judges enforce those laws instead of dismissing them with excuse after excuse. Our markets will become more concentrated until there are just a handful who can then implement monopolistic prices. They already get away with monopolistic practices with respect to producers.

Tex
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Tex, I agree with you on that. And everyone here is well aware of how things have gone, which makes us all that more frustrated when those who should be our partners in dealing with this choose instead to devote so much time, money and energy into attacking us, instead of working with us.

I guess Canadian cattle producers were naieve in believing that our neighbours were also our friends. When we were hit the hardest, the people we thought would identify with us are the very ones who were like the coyotes jumping on the carcass. Cattle producers who we had so much in common with were the first ones to stick that knife in our backs. Then they worked their hardest to make sure they were right there to give it a good twist with MCOOL.

That's what has our backs up in this country. We know all about packer concentration. We are affected by it far more than you are. We know all about how big business likes to divide and conquer. We have tried to get our own plants going, but it's not as easy as it sounds.

We know all this. Very well. And we also knew before MCOOL was implemented that it would work out this way, but try as we might, no one listened. This winter will be the tipping point for Canadian cattle producers. Either we get a miracle, or it's all over. That's the bottom line.

If the miracle doesn't happen, then there are two scenarios I can think of. One is that our remaining big American packer will feed their own American cattle in Canada and we sit and watch. The other is that the big American packer leaves like a thief in the night. (Tyson has already left.) Then we put in a marketing board. Watch what that does to American beef exports to Canada. :shock:

It has gotten that bad...................
 
This is just my take on the subject:

I really can't see why the Canadian producer is so uptight on MCOOL.

First, let's talk about competition. We know we are all competing with one another. I compete with my neighbors, if they produce better then I or if they do a better job of feeding or marketing, to some extent I am a loser. Maybe R-Calf did take an unfair swipe at the Canadian producer, I really can't say for sure. We producers on both sides are going to take whatever opportunities available to keep our share of the markets.

When you remove all the technicalities from COOL, it is just being honest. When everything is said and done, nothing has ever been gained by trying to keep things under cover.

This brings us back to the BSE thing. Even before the first mad cow was found, somethings were being covered up in one way or another. I hope I am wrong, but I believe that both of our governments know how BSE got into North America, and they know which large company or companies brought infected meat scraps or bone meal here. With all the money lost, or claimed to have been lost, think of all the lawsuits there would be if the cat got out of the bag. Our governments protect the ones with the most clout!

The Beef Industry has a marketing problem, it has other problems as well. You Canadian producers are starting to see that you have a problem. You are trying to blame it all on the country of origin labling instead of seeing the real problem and trying to find a solution.
 
When COOL started last year, I asked the butcher man at Rozier's grocery store why he couldn't carry straight USA beef and he told me because it wasn't offered to him by the processors. They couldn't specify USA only beef. They could not buy it.

The beef has always been labelled USA, Mexico and Canada up until a couple months ago........ now I don't know if they are falsely labelling it but here lately its been only marked with USA. I checked at Walmart's and there beef is still labelled USA, Mexico and Canada.

Kato, I don't things are going to get better for a while, or at least here in the USA as I read an article that Japan is saying their currency (is it the yen) will drop to 50 compared to the dollar and (I think its currently around 75) in 2010. China/Japan can no longer manipulate their currencies to the dollar w/o detrimental effects to their countries and that's one of the reasons they want a "global currency". Unemployment in the USA is predicted to stay at 8% at least thru 2013. That's not good news.

Every nation has built up their economy by exporting their goods to the USA and the american consumer went into debt and/or borrowed like crazy against the equity of their home because wages have fallen in the past 30 years. That has now stopped. I read the other day they had 10,000 applicants over in KY for 90 factory jobs at GE for a $27,000 yearly wage ....... can you imagine.

I sincerely feel for you but I am not and will not idly sit by and watch my fellow American rancher/farmer go out of business with his own herd sell out without raising cane with my congressional leaders. Beef imports should be limited to the amount that we export ONLY. This would entice importers to make sure there is an export market for their product.
 
Seems like I remember in the late 1990s a lot of USA cattle producers sold out and went out of business...can't remember why??????
 
MoGal, Canada and Mexico are your biggest export customers for beef.

Robertmac, back in 1996 the markets were really bad too. Remember Oprah's famous comment? I'll never forget it. The markets were sliding, and then she made that hamburger comment and they crashed. It was the low end of the cycle anyway, but this just made if so much worse. It was also back in the good old days when there was a cycle, so at the time we had the confidence to ride it out. It got so bad for us that we had to rent out our land and get jobs just to avoid selling cows. (It was also the time we made the best deal of our lives buying really good heifers for very little money who went on to be a super bunch of cows.)

We all got over that one, and things in this country were finally starting to look really good, when BSE hit. This one's just not going away like the 96 crash did. The poor prices we're getting now could be managed if everyone wasn't so drained from the past almost seven years of non stop disasters. It's not just COOL that gets us frustrated, there is much more at play here. But even though it's not our only problem, it's still there, and added to the high dollar, low prices, lack of equity left in the business, and exhaustion we're all feeling, it's just one more headache we don't need.

And to add insult to injury, we live with the knowledge that there are cattlemen just like us patting themselves on the back because they helped it along. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

I repeat : Canada and Mexico are your biggest export customers for beef.
 
MoGal ;The beef has always been labelled USA, Mexico and Canada up until a couple months ago........ now I don't know if they are falsely labelling it but here lately its been only marked with USA. I checked at Walmart's and there beef is still labelled USA, Mexico and Canada.

Was just in The Gaylord Mi Walmart and on the hamburger label it said Uraguray,Austrailia, New Zealand, Mexico, Canada,and USA . I asked the meat counter person if he had any idea how much beef was US in the package. He said ,You Guess!
I asked him if the ever sold any straight US beef , Never, was his remark! but he also said if we want US product ,Buy the Pork!

Survey shows consumers using COOL for meat purchases
www.SupermarketGuru.com conducted a consumer survey in March with the goal of understanding shopper's attitudes toward imported meat and country of origin labeling (COOL). The results showed consumers place "great importance" (77 percent) and "preference" for U.S. raised, bred and slaughtered meat.

A wide majority (73 percent) also assume imported meat to be less safe than its American counterpart.


Other findings: 81 percent say they feel confused when more than one country is listed on the label, and consequently, 40 percent don't buy the meat, and 34 percent say they look for meat labeled "product of the USA" to purchase And significantly, 64 percent of consumers say they would switch stores in order to buy meat labeled "product of the USA" if it wasn't available at their current grocery store.
 
PORKER said:
Was just in The Gaylord Mi Walmart and on the hamburger label it said Uraguray,Austrailia, New Zealand, Mexico, Canada,and USA . I asked the meat counter person if he had any idea how much beef was US in the package. He said ,You Guess!
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I just checked at Country Mart (Best Choice/Always Save store) today and their meat is labelled USA, Canada and Mexico and their hamburger is also labelled that same way........ now the store at Rozier's always labelled their hamburger as USA (only) so I do wonder if they are properly labelling it.

Hams are on sale this week for 99 cents a lb (I have not seen those prices for almost 2 years) but most bacon is still $3 or more a lb. They had Hunter bacon on sale 2 for $5. Turkeys are on sale this week also for 88 cents a lb and that isn't normal this time of year as they usually wait until about 2 weeks before Thanksgiving to have those prices.

You can blame COOL but the processors aren't allowing stores to buy USA ONLY beef which isn't right.
 
New Rule From Washington *********

For SMALL packing plants with 25 or fewer than 25 employees;FSIS is authorized to coordinate with States
that have cooperative State meat inspection programs to select certain
establishments operating under these programs to ship carcasses, parts
of carcasses, meat, and meat food products in interstate commerce.

Similarly, proposed Sec. 381.187(a) provides that under 21 U.S.C.
472(b),

FSIS is authorized to coordinate with States that have
cooperative State poultry products inspection programs to select
certain establishments operating under these programs to ship poultry
products in interstate commerce.

The regulations in 9 CFR 301.2 and 381.1 define
``commerce'' as ``[c]ommerce between any State, any Territory, or the
District of Columbia, and any place outside thereof * * *.'' Thus,
under this proposal, State-inspected establishments that are selected
to participate in a cooperative interstate shipment program will be
permitted to distribute and sell meat or poultry products across State
lines and to export these products to foreign countries.

This means CANADA and Mexico

Proposed Sec. Sec. 332.3(d) and 381.513(d) provide that an
eligible establishment may apply for selection into a cooperative
interstate shipment program through the State where the establishment
is located.

FSIS is proposing that establishments apply for selection
into a cooperative interstate shipment program through the State
because the State will be responsible for providing inspection services
to the establishment if the establishment is selected for the program.

Thus, establishment participation in the cooperative interstate
shipment program will depend on whether the State is able, and willing,
to provide the necessary inspection services to the establishment.
However, if a State enters into an agreement with FSIS for a
cooperative interstate shipment ,FSIS covers 50% of the inspection costs!
 
Why don't we all just close the border again both ways? The Canadian market can shrink to domestic supply size and implement a 100% CDN Beef label and the US can implement proper COOL measures on their side.

Reading the last Manitoba Co-operator farm paper, there was a good comment that runs parallel with my thoughts. An older beef producer was quoted as saying, "It's time for the gray hairs to get out of it and let the young people carry on. If not, their won't be young people to farm in the small communities in 10 years." He also stated along the lines that old men subsidizing their operations with pension cheques have no business in the industry.

There is no shortage of guys in their 60's, 70's and even 80's farming in my area, and only a couple of handfuls of young guys under 30 doing it. If the past-retirement age producers didn't get out 10 years ago when times were better, then I guess we need a string of really hard years to shake the CDN cattle herd down to size. Close the border.
 
Aaron said:
Why don't we all just close the border again both ways? The Canadian market can shrink to domestic supply size and implement a 100% CDN Beef label and the US can implement proper COOL measures on their side.

Reading the last Manitoba Co-operator farm paper, there was a good comment that runs parallel with my thoughts. An older beef producer was quoted as saying, "It's time for the gray hairs to get out of it and let the young people carry on. If not, their won't be young people to farm in the small communities in 10 years." He also stated along the lines that old men subsidizing their operations with pension cheques have no business in the industry.

There is no shortage of guys in their 60's, 70's and even 80's farming in my area, and only a couple of handfuls of young guys under 30 doing it. If the past-retirement age producers didn't get out 10 years ago when times were better, then I guess we need a string of really hard years to shake the CDN cattle herd down to size. Close the border.
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Aaron

Fact is the US is unable to supply its own domestic markets AND their export markets without importing beef.

I am and have been for years, a proponent of locking the border - let the US supply their own domestic / and their export markets with imports from Mexico and further south.

A one time buyout for Canadian national herd reduction probably would have been cheaper to the taxpayer than all of those other programs when combined.

If we shut US beef out of Canada, and refused to allow American chain restaurants and meat sellers - M&M, Montana and so on - to sell anything unless it was born, raised and processed in Canada - the country would be far better off.

Bottom line - the US is the elephant and we are the mouse. When they roll over in bed we need to be very nervous.

It would be nice to see a small additional levy on all oil and gas heading south. As we are - if memory serves - the largest supplier of those items to the US. China is using American money from loans to commence huge gas and oil developments in Canada - there will soon be another player and that will very likely drive that price up anyways - so as long as Canada is smart they will come out the winner.

China accepts American money for loans - uses it to finance their own natural resource industry - cannot call them stupid - it was a brilliant play that was enabled - yet again - by the present US administration. Essentially they lend out the cash - make money on the loan and get a source of energy built for them by US dollars.

A one billion plus dollar per day trade with the US is reducing and not so slowly due to the "buy American" policy - Canada is and will be for a long time - sucking the hind tit - so we ARE looking for new investors and there are many out there with cash that want to get involved.

China is now tossing the US buck - they have made their money and made their down payment on the new resource plans - so they no longer want this money - to them it is too risky - so it will slowly be sold off - driving the US buck down even further.

To give you an idea on how the Chinese have penetrated markets the world over - I was shopping in downtown Damascus last week. Pashmir scarves for women - silk and cashmir combined - are now made in China - exported to Syria and sold in the Suq as quality products. I did not buy as they were not authentic - but the Syrians buy them up like hotcakes. And this is a city of about 8-9 million people - so the market is not small.

There is little chance of the US administration shoring this money up and holding it up over the long term, as to accomplish this they will have to print more money - making the US buck even cheaper.

Things will change in the future. The US dollar is on its way down and when China pulls the trigger there will be some serious financial woes in the US - most brought upon them by the financial irresponsibility of the present administration raising their national debt to astronomical heights within the past year.

Changing the international currency is a slow process, but the Euro is gaining prominence in the mid east countries - their financial clout has yet to be truly recognized or acknowledged by the US - and they are teaming in many areas with China - the mortgager of all things US.

Every time the dollar falls, the US interest bill goes up - making it more and more difficult for America to actually pay their debts.

Canada - despite its poor ag policies and limp wristed approach to trade with its southern neighbour will be in a far stronger situation over the next few years unless things change down south - and at present I do not see that happening.

Hang in if you can - if you cannot - liquidate and rent the land for crops - we did. It is time to do whatever must be done to keep the land - if cows are costing then toss them. Sooner is better than later as the first loss is often the best loss - as additional losses only pile on to the first.

Talk of quota a while back was interesting.

In Israel at present there is a guaranteed minimum price for calves of a certain weight - then additional money per kilo of weight. I do not have the details but intend to find the specific numbers over the next week or so.

It has been said to me by Toad - cowboy from the Golan - over coffee under the trees at the line shack - that this is what saves them. I have sat at three different ranches over here and they all say the same thing - without that minimum support they could not survive. The packers pay it because they cannot import unless there is no available local supply.

This is done to ensure there is always a self contained food supply in this country - no requirement to rely upon foreign interests.

Off to look at some more desert and rocks in Syria - cheers

BC
 

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