Japan to ease all-cow mad cow testing

[Sandhusker]

SSAP, in case you haven't figured it out, R-CALF is a bit more concerned with the profitability of the US cattleman than the Canadian cattleman.

There's no denying this border deal has ravaged you guys and R-CALF's policy won't help. Still, you have to admit your industry was operating on borrowed time with the structure you had where you were dependant on one single market. I think you also have to admit your government hasn't been much help by following the USDA's horse#@*& sound science smoke screen regarding BSE testing. Japan, Korea, Taiwan, etal are yours for the taking - and they're not asking for much. We're not the only market in the world.

I simply don't understand why you Canadians are paying any heed to R-CALF at all. Instead of carping about what a foreign trade organization is saying and doing in their country, don't you think your time and energy would be better spent righting the ship in your country? After all, R-CALF did not start your problems. Send Randy Kaiser to Ottowa with a big can of whoop ash - he knows what the problem is. 8)

 

[Anonymous]

Sandman: "I'm specualting that they would and you're speculating that they won't. It wouldn't cost anything to find out. If I'm right, we're back in business, not leaving that $175/hd on the table. If you're right, we got a free shot and can eliminate a possibility."

The United States should not be sucked into a false advertising scheme which is exactly what BSE testing of cattle less than 24 months of age is.

Sandman: "BTW, Bullard is on the record of being for fair trade."

Bullard is also on record being opposed to trade. That's what political puppets do, they don't committ to a position so they can flip flop with the political winds.

Sandman: "I've asked you to prove R-CALF wrong, but you can't do it."

I've told you before and you still are too dense to get it. The burden of proof does not fall on the accused, the burden of proof falls on the accuser.

It is up to you to prove there is a high risk from eating Canadian beef. YOU ARE THE ACCUSER! If there was a high risk from eating Canadian beef, there would be an equally high risk from eating U.S. beef.

It's just a lie you isolationists parrot to keep the Canadian border closed. A lie you will now have to justify in a court of law against the U.S. having a case of BSE in their domestic herd.

Sandman: "Once again, SH, what is the prevelance of BSE in the Canadian herd?"

According to the BSE surveilance testing, NON EXISTANT!

Sandman: "SH, have you noticed what started all the recent bad press?"

Ahh.......R-CULT's buddy the Consumer Federation demanding another test on a cow that never made it into the food chain?

Sandman: "First you moan that R-CALF is going to turn consumers against beef, then you claim that the media doesn't hold them credible, and now you're back to wailing about them. Please let us know for future reference if people listen to R-CALF or not - and then stick to your position."

This should be obvious but I have to keep reminding myself who/what I'm talking to.

Whether BSE receives negative press or positive press depends on who gets to the media first and how their story is presented. One wrong interview in the right place and the AP would pick it up and run with it.

Fortunately for the U.S. cattlemen, USDA and NCBA have been there to offset the lies of R-CULT in their misguided effort to keep the Canadian border closed to live cattle. So far, the media has seen through R-CULT's protectionist ways.

If the media happens to pick up R-CULT's court case on BSE and does some research on the BSE firewalls that are in place in both Canada and the United States, one of two things will happen. More than likely they will figure out what a bunch of lying hypocrites R-CULT is or they will believe R-CULT's BSE fear mongering and our prices will fall through the floor from the resulting press.

The potential is always there for negative BSE press and R-CULT is more than eager to hand it out in their quest to blame USDA.

Sandman: "Send Randy Kaiser to Ottowa with a big can of whoop ash - he knows what the problem is."

Canada has more cattle than slaughter capacity because R-CULT lied about the safety of their beef to close the Canadian border. Most Canadians do have it figured out.


~SH~

 

[rkaiser]

SH

Canada has more cattle than slaughter capacity because R-CULT lied about the safety of their beef to close the Canadian border. Most Canadians do have it figured out.

Have to call you on that one SH. The American government actually closed the border, and Rcalf is simply HELPING to keep it closed.
Yes helping, by offering themselves up as the sacrificial lamb. This closed border is about a lot more then Cebull and Rcalf.

Why is the border not open today?The US govenment closed it because Canada had a domestic BSE case. Now the US has one. No more need for a closed border. The challenge to the rule means nothing. The US governement closed the border, why can't they open it for the very reason it was closed; domestic BSE?

 

[Anonymous]

You are correct randy, BSE closed the border and R-CALF filed the injunction that kept the Canadian border closed. If R-CALF had their way, we wouldn't be importing boxed beef from Canada either. Where do you think your markets would be then?

Randy: "Yes helping, by offering themselves up as the sacrificial lamb. This closed border is about a lot more then Cebull and Rcalf."

Why would you get cozy with the organization that called your beef a "high risk" to consumers?

Why would you get cozy with the organization that claims you are still slaughtering downer cows?

Why would you get cozy with the organization that claims your feed is contaminated?

Why would you get cozy with the organization that claims that eating your beef can lead to vCJD?

I think I have seen everything now!

Randy: "The US govenment closed it because Canada had a domestic BSE case. Now the US has one. No more need for a closed border. The challenge to the rule means nothing. The US governement closed the border, why can't they open it for the very reason it was closed; domestic BSE?"

Because it hasn't been settled in court yet. That's what R-CULT's injunction was about. STOPPING THE OPENING OF THE CANADIAN BORDER!

Are you for real?


Sandman loves you because you have given R-CULT a free pass to lie about the safety of your product as long as they join you in blaming packers.

I can't believe it!



~SH~

 

[rkaiser]

SH and GW Bush "You're either with us, or you're part of the axis of evil".

Give me a break.

 

[Sandhusker]

Randy, "Why is the border not open today?The US govenment closed it because Canada had a domestic BSE case. Now the US has one. No more need for a closed border. "

That's not the way it works, Randy. Canada has had BSE for two years now and haven't opened up to England, France, Italy, etc...

 

[Bill]

Randy, "Why is the border not open today?The US govenment closed it because Canada had a domestic BSE case. Now the US has one. No more need for a closed border. "

That's not the way it works, Randy. Canada has had BSE for two years now and haven't opened up to England, France, Italy, etc...

I didn't know we had a Free Trade agreement with any European countries or previously integrated beef industry with Italy.

 

[rkaiser]

England, France, and Italy never had a basically transparent border with Canada that saw millions of live cattle integrated into each countries territory. This is the one true reason that the border should never have closed in the first place Sandhusker.

Canada and the USA have never had seperate herds and our rules concerning BSE have always been similar (if not exactly alike).

BSE has never been a scientific issue, and finally now with the American cow, science has been put to bed.

My personal opinion Sandhusker is that Canada should open the border to countries with BSE. And that is not just because we have it.

 

[Sandhusker]

SH, "The United States should not be sucked into a false advertising scheme which is exactly what BSE testing of cattle less than 24 months of age is."

Why do you keep harping on your false advertising laugher? First of all, where is the ad? Have you seen it? How do you know it to be false? Don't you have any faith in the government regulatory agency that oversees advertising? You don't think they would catch it?

Secondly, a packer tests for BSE and then states "The beef is BSE tested", where is the falsehood? Do you think you could win in court?

SH, "Bullard is also on record being opposed to trade. "

Trade in general or certain deals?

"I've told you before and you still are too dense to get it. The burden of proof does not fall on the accused, the burden of proof falls on the accuser."

Fine, you're accusing R-CALF of lying. Prove it.

SH, "According to the BSE surveilance testing, NON EXISTANT! "

So I suppose you could bring a scientifically accepted document that supports your statement?

Ahh.......R-CULT's buddy the Consumer Federation demanding another test on a cow that never made it into the food chain?

That dang Consumer Federation, how dare they demand the USDA do their job, and then be correct on the suspected mess up!

SH "If the media happens to pick up R-CULT's court case on BSE and does some research on the BSE firewalls that are in place in both Canada and the United States, one of two things will happen. More than likely they will figure out what a bunch of lying hypocrites R-CULT is or they will believe R-CULT's BSE fear mongering and our prices will fall through the floor from the resulting press."

Are you sure you want the media to pick up on the details of our feed ban? Do you want them to report US cattle are eating chicken sh#$? (Wasn't that supposed to stop?) How about plate waste or ruminant byproducts via hogs and chickens?

SH,"Canada has more cattle than slaughter capacity because R-CULT lied about the safety of their beef to close the Canadian border. Most Canadians do have it figured out."

Canada had more cattle than slaughter capacity before R-CALF was even founded. You think you can blame R-CALF on the weather, Iraq's problems, the Middle East, etc...? :lol:

 

[Tam]

Secondly, a packer tests for BSE and then states "The beef is BSE tested", where is the falsehood? Do you think you could win in court?

I have heard on here more than a few times that the USDA INSPECTED label is a fraud because people believe it means US Beef. This is the main reason R-CALF wants the M'COOL labeling. I even heard Leo Bill and Shae talking about this very fact on TV. So wouldn't the BSE TESTED label be just as much of a fraud if people believed it to mean BSE FREE. I thought it was the policy of most countries to destroy any carass that comes back with a positive result so why would the consumer think well they tested it but that doesn't mean its BSE free this could be meat from that one cow they found positive last week. If a consumer reads BSE TESTED they will automatically believe it is BSE FREE. And most in the industry know that may not be the case with the under aged animals so by putting that label on we are perpetrating a fraud just as much as R-CALF believe the USDA is with the USDA inspected label. Why don't we just put a "SRM's removed" label on as that is what the OIE tells us is what makes the meat safe to eat.

Why do you keep harping on your false advertising

Advertize means to call attention to something, to make the public take note of something,
And if the label in not put on the package of meat to tell or advertize the fact it was tested then what the H**l is it put on for. You don't need to run an ad in the newspaper to advertize something all you need is a means of calling attention to the fact or thing IE a label about BSE tested with can be as much false advertizing as R-CALF claims the USDA inspected label is.

Fine, you're accusing R-CALF of lying. Prove it.

Well Sandhusker
Leo said that Canada was still processing downer and the US wasn't LIE We can't even haul them without getting fined so how do we get them to slaughter not all of us have a slaughter house on the range.
Leo said the US test 150,000 more head of cattle annually than Canada LIE The US hasn't even tested the same percentage let alone 150,000 more annually do I need to post the USDA/ CFIA test number again
Leo said No R-CALF members have owned cattle in Canada since BSE was discovered LIE Is Mr L Debrucker of Montana and large financial backed of R-CALF not a member not to mention a couple other guys that heavily support R-CALF and were in Canada and had to sell their fats at half the going rate because the packers found out they were R-CALF MEMBERS. And wasn't Leo defending them by saying I don't see anything wrong with it as they have been doing this for years. Then he when on TV and said no R-CALF members own cattle in Canada and why would they even want to with the prices Canadians are seeing for their cattle.
Leo said ALL BEEF coming from a country affected by BSE is TAINTED and unsafe for human consumption. You better hope that was a lie as guess who is now been affected by BSE.
Leo said The US has the safest beef in the world but how can that be Sandhusker you have been affected by BSE. is this another LIE By the way how can you have the safest beef in the world when the USDA and the packers don't care about food safety at least they don't according to R-CALF.
Leo Said the US fire walls are not strong enough to protect the US herd and consumers from imported beef but now that BSE has been found in the US he plans on looking consumers right in the eye and tell them that the firewalls the US have had in place for so many years and the only country to have these firewalls in place prior to having BSE were put there for their protection. Sandhusker you call it which one is the lie here The firewall are not strong enough to protect or they were put there to protect the consumer and BSE will be a non issue.
And by the way was the US the only country to put these firewall in prior to having BSE I THINK NOT another LIE.
Should I go on Sandhusker or are you now seeing the forest through the trees. :wink:

 

[Tam]

Sorry missed this little statement in my last post

Are you sure you want the media to pick up on the details of our feed ban? Do you want them to report US cattle are eating chicken sh#$? (Wasn't that supposed to stop?) How about plate waste or ruminant byproducts via hogs and chickens?

I find this funny coming from and R-CALFer when R-CALF has be spouting all along that the Canadian safeguards were inadaquate to protect the Canadian herd from BSE and the US's has the highest standards to raise beef in the world. Could this be another R-CALF LIE As Canada ban this stuff in 1998 so wouldn't that make our standards HIGHER than yours Sandhusker. :roll:

 

[Sandhusker]

Tam, I challenged SH to prove Canadian beef was not tainted. He can't. You can't. Nobody can because Canada is not testing enough. You can't prove where your BSE came from. Before you get you panties in a wad, neither can the US.

Your reference to the USDA stamp has flaws, too. First of all, the tested beef will be going to JAPAN. They have their OWN truth in labeling laws, I'm sure. US packers would not be advertising a dang thing, only stating the truth - the product had been BSE tested - WHICH IS THE CURRENT LAW IN JAPAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :roll: It would be up the the Japanese wholesalers and/or retailers to comply with domestice labeling laws.

I don't know about Canada, but the US has some very stringent safeguards - problem is some are just safeguards on paper because the idiots in Washington don't see any use in actually enforcing them. Are you calling that a lie, too?

 

[S.S.A.P.]

Sandhusker, I've read the r-calf statements.
Using their facts and reasonings stated, I've come to the conclusion the USA beef is tainted. Proof to me that it isn't.


sandhusker wrote

I don't know about Canada .....

Could have fooled me, you sure have plenty of comments about us. :roll:

 

[Sandhusker]

Sandhusker, I've read the r-calf statements.
Using their facts and reasonings stated, I've come to the conclusion the USA beef is tainted. Proof to me that it isn't.


sandhusker wrote

I don't know about Canada .....

Could have fooled me, you sure have plenty of comments about us. :roll:

I can't prove to you anything - I've stated that before. The USDA won't test enough to find out.

 

[S.S.A.P.]

Well Sandhusker, you have lucked out. Because as much as I would love to form a support group of say .. 18,000 and tell everyone that USA beef is tainted, (along with all the other crap r-calf has and will spout).. I won't.

I think our beef consumers don't deserve to be used as pawns in the r-calf: "gotta keep that Canadian border sealed at whatever cost"

BTW, how can you so ernestly support r-calf, when you can't even prove anything to me about your own industry? Is it far easier for you to imply negative things about the competition than prove something positive about your own.

 

[Anonymous]

Tam,

Good point! Here these USDA blamers like OT and Sandman are accusing USDA of "intentional fraud" by hiding foreign beef behind a "USDA INSPECTED" stamp yet they support legitimate fraud by selling the perception of BSE safety through BSE testing of cattle younger than 24 months of age.

Sandman: "Don't you have any faith in the government regulatory agency that oversees advertising?"

Yes I have faith in USDA. That's why USDA would not allow BSE testing of cattle less than 24 months of age for exporting. They saw it as "false advertising" and would not allow it.

"BSE TESTED" implies "BSE FREE" or there would be no reason to test.

You support fraud because that's the pathetic type individual you are. The end ($) justifies the means (LYING).

Sandman: "Fine, you're accusing R-CALF of lying. Prove it."

The burden of proof falls on the accuser and the accusation in this case is that Canadian beef is contaminated, not the allegation that R-CULT lied about it you spin doctor!

You are accusing Canadian beef of being contaminated, PROVE IT!

Lets say that I accuse you of embezzlement at the Cody bank. Should you have to prove you are not embezzling or should I have to prove that you are?

If you accuse me of lying about you embezzling, should you have to prove that I am lying about you embezzling? SAME STUPID LOGIC!

Sandman: "So I suppose you could bring a scientifically accepted document that supports your statement?"

USDA has the results of all the testing. Is that not a science based document.

Once again, the burden of proof is on you to prove that Canadian beef is contaminated.

Sandman: "That dang Consumer Federation, how dare they demand the USDA do their job, and then be correct on the suspected mess up!"

I was wrong, it was the Consumer's Union, not the Consumer Federation that led that charge. My mistake!

Sandman: "Are you sure you want the media to pick up on the details of our feed ban?"

Hahaha! I'm certain you don't or they might discover the depth of R-CULT's lies. Like I said before, R-CULT knew all along that NCBA and USDA would cover their lying asses.

Sandman: "Canada had more cattle than slaughter capacity before R-CALF was even founded."

You're so incredibly pathetic! Anything to divert the fact that you stabbed the Canadian producer in the back.

Canada's slaughter capacity wasn't a problem until the border closed because Canadian cattle were being slaughtered in the U.S. and you know it.


~SH~

 

[S.S.A.P.]

I simply don't understand why you Canadians are paying any heed to R-CALF at all. Instead of carping about what a foreign trade organization is saying and doing in their country, don't you think your time and energy would be better spent righting the ship in your country?

No Sandhusker you don't understand, we can see that!!!!!
It has nothing to do with the: diseased, tainted, contaminated beef that r-calf calls Canadian. Or how about the fact that you say we still slaughter downers for human consumption. Or that our feed ban is 70% non-compliant or that our testing is a farce... we'll just ignore all that and leave you in your happy little world of lies.

Allow me to inject a word into your last sentence and send it back to you:
Instead of [ r-calf ] carping about what a foreign trade organization is saying and doing in their country, don't you think your time and energy would be better spent righting the ship in your country?

 

[Sandhusker]

SSAP, "Allow me to inject a word into your last sentence and send it back to you: Instead of [ r-calf ] carping about what a foreign trade organization is saying and doing in their country, don't you think your time and energy would be better spent righting the ship in your country?"

We ARE trying to right the ship our country. We've got a dept. of Agriculture that works for the AMI. They arbitrarily reverse policy, they can't follow or enforce their own rules, they make rulings contrary to their own previous precident. R-CALF is the only outfit who is doing anything about it.

 

[Tam]

Tam, I challenged SH to prove Canadian beef was not tainted. He can't. You can't. Nobody can because Canada is not testing enough. You can't prove where your BSE came from. Before you get you panties in a wad, neither can the US.

First of all would you say something like this to a man

Before you get you panties in a wad,

Why do some of you guys need to bring statements like this into a debate does it make you feel more like a big man to talk to women this way. :x
I love this if we accuse R-CALF of lieing we better have lots of proof but when it is you accusing we have to prove you are wrong. what happen to In your own words Sandhusker

The burden of proof does not fall on the accused, the burden of proof falls on the accuser."

You are accusing Canada of having tainted beef so prove it. Would the fact that we have only found three cases in Canada in the past two plus years prove not all Canadian beef is tainted. And if one case makes all beef tainted, as we all know R-CALF started down this trail long before the second and third were found in Canada, wouldn't that make all beef in the US now tainted? So prove to us yours isn't tainted?

Your reference to the USDA stamp has flaws, too. First of all, the tested beef will be going to JAPAN. They have their OWN truth in labeling laws, I'm sure. US packers would not be advertising a dang thing, only stating the truth - the product had been BSE tested - WHICH IS THE CURRENT LAW IN JAPAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :roll: It would be up the the Japanese wholesalers and/or retailers to comply with domestice labeling laws.

OK Sandhusker you don't care what people in Japan think a label means but you sure seem to care alot about what the US consumer think a label means. :roll: Once you test the animal for Japan, does Japan take the whole animal or just the cuts they want? I was to my understanding that it is the later and that the parts Japan doesn't take are eaten right in the US. Will you not be telling the US consumer they are eating BSE tested beef? :nod:

I don't know about Canada, but the US has some very stringent safeguards - problem is some are just safeguards on paper because the idiots in Washington don't see any use in actually enforcing them. Are you calling that a lie, too?

You just told us Sandhusker that "the US has some very stringent safeguards problem is some are just safeguards on paper " and earlier you said "Are you sure you want the media to pick up on the details of our feed ban? Do you want them to report US cattle are eating chicken sh#$? (Wasn't that supposed to stop?) How about plate waste or ruminant byproducts via hogs and chickens?"
Now you tell us Sandhusker do you really have stringent safeguard that the USDA isn't enforcing or isn't it true you don't have the most stringent safeguards in the world. The USDA announced them then opened a comment period for the industry to make they comments on them. Then all your safeguards fell into the black hole of reviewing thousands of comments and deciding what to do about the rule and how to write it so they don't tick someone off and wind up in court. So yes you have them on paper but the USDA has nothing to enforce because of the industry itself will not allow them to just write the rules without a threat of court action if what they write is not liked.

And for a man that doesn't know about Canada you seem to post alot about what you don't know about. :roll:

 

[Tam]

SSAP, "Allow me to inject a word into your last sentence and send it back to you: Instead of [ r-calf ] carping about what a foreign trade organization is saying and doing in their country, don't you think your time and energy would be better spent righting the ship in your country?"

We ARE trying to right the ship our country. We've got a dept. of Agriculture that works for the AMI. They arbitrarily reverse policy, they can't follow or enforce their own rules, they make rulings contrary to their own previous precident. R-CALF is the only outfit who is doing anything about it.

Sandhusker How does bold face lieing about the Canadian beef industry right the ship in the US. All R-CALF has done is shiffed the weight When the Anti beef groups start shooting their high powered water cannons that R-CALF made sure were fully loaded at you that ship will being sinking. :roll: I guess that is why Leo is jumping ship now. :wink: