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Just how little BSE in feed will result in transmission?

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BSE transmitted between sheep

Incident at government test farm fuels new food fear

James Meikle, health correspondent
Wednesday August 17, 2005
The Guardian


BSE has been transmitted naturally between sheep for the first time, a study has shown. Confirmation that such a thing is possible reinforces fears that the disease may have entered sheep as well as cattle on farms in Britain.
The revelation that lambs at a government experimental station appear to have caught BSE from their mothers coincides with plans to relax anti-BSE controls in cattle and was not mentioned at a meeting of the Food Standards Agency in London this week.
 
So what's the scoop Oldtimer, are you cheering this kind of crap on or what.

I cannot for the life of me understand what the motive behind a rancher supporting the unproven theory of transmission is. Unless it's some protectionist crap which has already been thrown out the door with America's second domestic case of BSE.

Read an article written by a David P. Price from somewhere south of the 49th. The American case has prompted more and more of these American folks to give Purdey his dues.

www.cattleandwildlifenutrition.com

Another couple of domestic cases will even have more jumping on board I'm sure. The article was called "Chicken and Egg". Did not talk of a cow eating a vCJD victim as I have suggested, but made more sense than "transmission being the only way".

Read all the articles you want folks. Simple science says that a protein needs to be broken down in order to travel throughtout the body. And the INDESTRUCTABLE prion protein cannot be broken down in any natural way within the body of the amimal it resides.

Have fun proving that BSE "SHOULD" be the key to destroying the viability of the beef industry in Canada, the USA and the World. That is the course that transmission puts us all on.
 
Mike- "The independent peer reviewed studies are there for all to see if you are willing to pay for them. The abstracts are proof enough for those interested in the truth."

Sooooo..... Are you admitting that NOTHING that you and reader(the 2nd) have posted so far would qualify as an independent peer reviewed study??? I think you are Mikey!!!!! :D

Some folks settle for "proof enough". Some folks like to see PROOF POSITIVE. :-)
 
Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2002 December 10; 99(Suppl 4): 16378–16383.
doi: 10.1073/pnas.172403799.
Copyright © 2002, The National Academy of Sciences

Colloquium Paper
Transmission of prions

C. Weissmann,* M. Enari,† P.-C. Klöhn, D. Rossi,‡ and E. Flechsig§
Medical Research Council Prion Unit, Department of Neurodegenerative Disease, Institute of Neurology, Queen Square, London WC1N 3BG, United Kingdom

*To whom reprint requests should be addressed. E-mail: [email protected]..
†Present address: National Cancer Center Research Institute, Radiobiology Division, Tsukiji 5-1-1, Chuo-ku, Tokyo 104-0045, Japan.
‡Present address: Department of Pharmacological Sciences, Center for Excellence on Neurodegenerative Diseases, University of Milan, Via Balzaretti 9, 20133 Milan, Italy.
§Present address: Institut für Virologie und Immunbiologie, Versbacherstrasse 7, D-97078 Würzburg, Germany.

This article has been cited by other articles in PMC.
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>>> Abstract
"Natural" Transmission of Prions
Iatrogenic Transmission of Prions
Experimental Transmission of Surface-Bound Prions
Concluding Remarks
References

Abstract

The "protein only" hypothesis states that the infectious agent causing transmissible spongiform encephalopathies is a conformational isomer of PrP, a host protein predominantly expressed in brain, and is strongly supported by many lines of evidence. Prion diseases are so far unique among conformational diseases in that they are transmissible, not only experimentally but also by natural routes, mainly by ingestion. A striking feature of prions is their extraordinary resistance to conventional sterilization procedures, and their capacity to bind to surfaces of metal and plastic without losing infectivity. This property, first observed in a clinical setting, is now being investigated in experimental settings, both in animals and in cell culture.

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Abstract
"Natural" Transmission of Prions
Iatrogenic Transmission of Prions
Experimental Transmission of Surface-Bound Prions
Concluding Remarks
References



Transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (TSEs), or prion diseases, are degenerative disorders of the central nervous system leading to motor dysfunction, dementia, and death. Prion diseases include scrapie of sheep, bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) in cattle, and human diseases such as Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (CJD), Gerstmann-Sträussler-Scheinker syndrome (GSS) and fatal familial insomnia (FFI). More recently, variant CJD (vCJD), ascribed to consumption of BSE-contaminated products (1), has claimed over 120 victims. Neither humoral nor cellular immunological responses have been detected in prion diseases.

Transmissibility of scrapie was first demonstrated in 1939 (2). The remarkable resistance of the causative agent, later designated prion, was revealed early on when 10% of a flock of Scottish sheep came down with scrapie after having been injected with a vaccine against looping ill prepared from formaldehyde-treated sheep brain extract (3). The agent's unusual resistance to UV irradiation suggested that it might be devoid of nucleic acid (4). The "protein only" hypothesis (5) in its updated version (6) proposes that the prion is a conformational isoform of the normal host protein PrPC (7, 8), which is found predominantly on the outer surface of neurons, attached by a glycosylphosphatidylinositol (GPI) anchor. The abnormal conformer, when introduced into the organism, is thought to cause the conversion of PrPC into a likeness of itself.

In prion disease, a largely protease-resistant, aggregated form of PrP designated PrPSc, accumulates, mainly in brain. It is believed to be the principal or only constituent of the prion (6). No differences in the primary structure of PrPC and PrPSc were detected, suggesting that they differ in their conformation (9). The tertiary structure of PrPC has been elucidated (10), whereas that of PrPSc has not; however, the β-sheet content of PrPSc was shown to be high whereas that of PrPC is low (11, 12). The conclusion that some form of PrP is the essential, perhaps only, constituent of the infectious agent is based on compelling biochemical and genetic evidence (13, 14). The finding that PrP knockout (Prnpo/o) mice are completely protected against scrapie disease and fail to propagate prions (15, 16) and that introduction of murine Prnp transgenes into these mice restores susceptibility to prions (17) is one of the main supports for the "protein only" hypothesis.

Within the framework of the "protein only" hypothesis, the "refolding model" (Fig. 1A) proposes that PrPC unfolds to some extent and refolds under the influence of a PrPSc molecule and that the two states are separated by an activation energy barrier (18). The "nucleation model" (Fig. 1B) postulates that PrPC is in equilibrium with PrPSc (or a precursor thereof), that the equilibrium is largely in favor of PrPC, and that PrPSc is stable only when it forms a multimer. Once such a multimer or seed is present, monomer addition ensues rapidly (19). "Breakage" of aggregates must be postulated to explain the exponential increase of PrPSc during infection (20). Conversion in vitro of PrPC to a PrPSc-like product has been achieved by incubating 35S-labeled PrPC with PrPSc and demonstrating the appearance of a protease-resistant radioactive product with the mobility of protease-treated authentic PrPSc (21). This in vitro conversion exhibits the species specificity (22) and strain-specificity (23) observed in vivo. However, because the yield is less than stoichiometric with regard to the PrPSc used as seed, it has not been possible to determine whether or not there was an increase in infectivity. Perhaps the "cyclic amplification" procedure reported recently will lead to this goal (24). Although it has been possible to convert recombinant PrPC into a β-sheet-rich, partially protease-resistant structure by physico-chemical procedures (25, 26), there have so far been no reports that such material gives rise to transmissible prion disease (27–29). Also, it has so far not been possible to renature completely denatured prion preparation to an infectious state (30, 31) although the infectivity of partially inactivated material can be increased by renaturation under certain conditions (32, 33). Prusiner and his colleagues have reported that intracerebral injection of a synthetic 55-residue peptide corresponding to region 89–143 of mouse PrP with a P101L substitution can induce neurological, prion-like disease, however this is achieved only in transgenic mice expressing PrP with the same mutation (29). The caveats here are that these transgenic mice show spontaneous disease even without inoculation, albeit only much later, and that transmissibility has yet to be demonstrated.

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Abstract
>>> "Natural" Transmission of Prions
Iatrogenic Transmission of Prions
Experimental Transmission of Surface-Bound Prions
Concluding Remarks
References

"Natural" Transmission of Prions

Although prion diseases are not contagious in the strict sense, i.e., by direct contact, they are transmissible perorally and parenterally. The BSE epidemic that emerged in the mid-eighties and led to about 180,000 clinically diagnosed cases (and likely to many times more nondiagnosed ones) was fueled by the feeding of BSE-prion-contaminated bone-and-meat meal to cattle (34). The kuru epidemic that developed in the first half of the 20th century in Papua New Guinea was caused by ritualistic cannibalism (35) and is believed to have originated from a case of sporadic CJD. Variant CJD is thought to come about by ingestion of BSE-prion-contaminated foodstuff, and certainly mice (36), sheep (37), calves (38), and non-human primates (39, 40) can be experimentally infected with the BSE agent by the oral route. It appears quite likely that sheep scrapie spreads by ingestion of the infectious agent, although the source has not been established; infected placenta has been suggested (41), but scrapie-prion-contaminated feces are a likely possibility that merits investigation. Perhaps the appearance of vCJD in predominantly young individuals is due to infection by contaminated foodstuff through wounds resulting from teething and tooth loss between early infancy and adolescence. Experimental transmission by the dental route has been shown in hamster (42).

Somehow prions make their way from the digestive tract to the central nervous system (Fig. 2). The relative resistance of prion infectivity to protease digestion (43) probably allows a significant proportion of the infectious agent to survive passage through the digestive tract (36). It is not clear how prions pass through the intestinal mucosa. M cells, which are portals for antigens and pathogens (44–46), are able to mediate transport of prions, at least in an experimental setting (47). Thus, after oral uptake, the infectious agent may penetrate the mucosa through M cells and reach Peyer's patches, where they are found early on (36) as well as the enteric nervous system (48). Depending on the host, other tissues of the lymphoreticular system (LRS), in particular the spleen but also lymph nodes (49), are sites in which prions replicate and accumulate; this result is the case in sheep scrapie, experimental BSE in sheep, vCJD in man, and experimental mouse scrapie, but not BSE in cattle (50). Recent reports suggest that myeloid dendritic cells mediate transport within the lymphoreticular system (51, 52). Interestingly, mature B cells (with or without PrPC expression) are required for amplification of prions in spleen (53), not, however, because they themselves harbor or multiply prions (54), but because they are required for the maturation of follicular dendritic cells, the cells in which prion amplification and PrPSc accumulation occur (55, 56). Nonetheless, neuroinvasion is possible even in the absence of follicular dendritic cells, suggesting that other cell types in the periphery also can amplify prions (49, 57). From the LRS and likely from other sites, prions proceed along the peripheral nervous system to finally reach the brain, either directly via the vagus nerve (58) or via the spinal cord, under involvement of the sympathetic nervous system (59). If a sufficiently high dose of prions is administered i.p., neuroinvasion can occur without participation of the LRS (60). Although prions have not been detected in muscle of scrapie or BSE-infected animals, infectivity has been found in some, but not all skeletal muscles of mice experimentally infected with ME7 or RML prions (61).

Not only the biosynthesis of prions, but also their spread depends on PrP-containing cells. This result was demonstrated by the finding that a PrP-expressing neuroectodermal graft in the brain of a Prnpo/o mouse could be infected by intracerebral injection of mouse prions but not by intraocular (62) or i.p. inoculation (63). Even after irradiation and reconstitution with a PrP-expressing lymphohemopoietic system, prions failed to reach the graft after i.p. or i.v. inoculation, showing that neuroinvasion, at least in the mouse, was not mediated by prion transport through the circulation (63) and underlining the requirement of an interposed PrP-expressing compartment, later shown to be the peripheral nervous system (60). In the case of experimental mouse scrapie, prion infectivity could not be detected in leukocytes (64), nor was infectivity detected in the blood of BSE-infected cattle (50) or scrapie-infected sheep (65). However, a low but reproducible titer of prions was detected in blood of scrapie-infected hamsters (66). Also, 1 of 19 sheep transfused with blood from experimentally, orally BSE-infected sheep came down with prion disease (67). The level of prions in blood, which in all cases examined appears to be low or undetectable by the mostly not very sensitive methods used, may vary in different species and/or with different prion strains.

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Abstract
"Natural" Transmission of Prions
>>> Iatrogenic Transmission of Prions
Experimental Transmission of Surface-Bound Prions
Concluding Remarks
References

Iatrogenic Transmission of Prions

Almost 300 cases of involuntary transmission of CJD by medical interventions have been reported (68). Most cases are due to injection of cadaveric human growth hormone or transplantation of dura mater; however, a few incidents associated with cornea transplantation have been reported. Four instances of CJD after neurosurgical intervention have been attributed to surgical instruments that had previously been used on CJD patients (69); however, causality was proven only in one case. An electrode that had been inserted into the cortex of an unrecognized CJD patient was subjected to a decontamination procedure involving treatment with benzene, 70% ethanol, and formaldehyde vapor. It was then used in succession on two young patients and cleaned as above after each use. Within 2 yr, both patients came down with CJD. After these events, the tip of the electrode was implanted into the brain of a chimpanzee where it too caused lethal spongiform encephalopathy, proving that the electrode had retained infectious prions over several years and despite repeated attempts at sterilization (70, 71).

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Abstract
"Natural" Transmission of Prions
Iatrogenic Transmission of Prions
>>> Experimental Transmission of Surface-Bound Prions
Concluding Remarks
References

Experimental Transmission of Surface-Bound Prions

The electrode described above had a complex structure: a steel shaft of about 6 mm diameter, with multiple silver contacts separated by rings of insulating plastic allowing for the existence of crevices into which infectious material might have penetrated. To clarify whether prions would bind to a homogeneous surface, we used fine stainless steel wires as model for a surgical instrument. In a first experiment, wires were incubated overnight with brain homogenate from a terminally sick, murine-scrapie-infected mouse, washed exhaustively with PBS, and permanently implanted into brains of indicator mice. This procedure resulted in scrapie disease within about 70 days, an incubation time only slightly longer than that obtained by injecting 30 μl of 1% brain homogenate (72). To mimic more closely real-life conditions, stainless steel wires were inserted directly into the brains of scrapie-infected, clinically still healthy mice for various periods of time, washed exhaustively, and assayed by permanent insertion into brains of indicator mice. Surprisingly, 5 min of contact sufficed for the wire to acquire a maximum load of infectivity, equivalent to the injection of 30 μl of 1% homogenate of the same brain (Fig. 3). A second important question regards the length of time an infectious wire must remain in contact with brain tissue to initiate disease. Rather than leave the infectious wires permanently in the indicator mouse, they were inserted transiently, for 30 or 120 min, to mimic the conditions that might obtain during a surgical operation. As shown in Table 1, a contact time of 30 min was sufficient to elicit disease, albeit with lower efficiency than was obtained after permanent insertion, as evidenced by the longer incubation time. The wires that had been inserted transiently into indicator mice remained fully infectious when introduced permanently into a further set of indicator mice (Table 1; ref. 73), reflecting the persistence of infectivity, as in the incident with the intracerebral electrode described above.

Why are wires exposed to infected brain or brain homogenates at least as infectious as injected homogenates, which contain far more protein than can be bound to a wire? The surfaces of steel and other metals tightly bind what appears to be a monolayer of protein (74–76). The unexpected high infectivity of steel wires could be due to selective binding of infectious particles or a higher potency of surface bound infectivity. It has been shown that, despite the resistance of PrPSc and scrapie infectivity to treatment in vitro with proteinase K, prion titers in brain after intracerebral inoculation decrease below the level of detectability within 4 days or less (15). On the other hand, infectious wires left for 5 days in brain still retained infectivity (73). Perhaps metal-bound prions may be protected against rapid degradation in the brain, and their apparently high specific infectivity may therefore be due to the long persistence of relatively low levels of infectivity. It can be mentioned in passing that prion-coated gold wires exhibit similar infectivity intracerebrally as steel wires (73), and that plastic surfaces, such as polystyrene (Fig. 4), polypropylene, or polyethylene also tightly bind prions and transmit scrapie infectivity to adherent susceptible cultured cells (M.E., D.R., P.-C.K. and C.W., unpublished data).

We attempted to elute PrP from infectious steel wires with 2M NaOH, but failed to detect either protein (detection limit, 50 ng per wire) or PrP (detection limit 15 pg per wire). On the other hand, PrP immunoreactivity could be detected at the surface of prion-coated wires by chemiluminescence (73). This finding raises the question as to whether infection of brain tissue elicited by infected wires comes about by direct contact with irreversibly surface-bound prions or whether it is due to a slow, so far undetected release of prions. This question is difficult to answer experimentally; however, it would seem that intimate contact between the prion-loaded surface and target cells is a prerequisite for transmission of infectivity. Prion-coated wires were placed on monolayers of mouse neuroblastoma cells highly susceptible to mouse prions (77). After 1 to 14 days, the wires, to which some cells had adhered, were transferred onto coverslips in the wells of a tissue culture plate and incubated for 14 days, allowing the cells to migrate off the wire and multiply. Cells derived from both the residual monolayer and the wire were blotted onto nitrocellulose membranes and assayed for the presence of protease-resistant PrP, the surrogate marker of prion infection (78). Only the cells derived from the infected wire, but not from the residual monolayer, were PrPSc positive (Fig. 5) and contained infectivity (M.E., E.F. and C.W., unpublished data). This experiment shows that intimate contact between the prion-carrying surface and susceptible cells greatly promotes infection or is prerequisite. Similarly, cell-to-cell transmission of infectivity in cell culture is orders of magnitude more efficient than transmission by a prion preparation (79).

The availability of prion-coated steel wires mimicking contaminated surgical instruments makes it possible to assess the efficacy of sterilization conditions on surface-bound prions. Preliminary results (Table 2) confirm that treatment with formaldehyde is insufficient to sterilize infectious wires, whereas treatment with sodium hydroxide, guanidinium thiocyanate (73), or autoclaving at 121°C for 20 min is efficacious (E.F. and C.W., unpublished results). It is, however, not appropriate to derive from these experiments recommendations for the sterilization of surgical instruments; it will first be necessary to validate the procedures scaling up the contact surface between metal and brain tissue and, importantly, using vCJD prions in a susceptible host, preferably a non-human primate.

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Abstract
"Natural" Transmission of Prions
Iatrogenic Transmission of Prions
Experimental Transmission of Surface-Bound Prions
>>> Concluding Remarks
References

Concluding Remarks

Twenty or more diseases of humans are associated with the deposition of β-sheet-rich protein aggregates, or amyloid (80, 81). They are frequently designated "conformational diseases" although it is not in all cases clear whether, or to what extent, the misfolded proteins are the cause of the disease rather than the consequence. Prion diseases are so far unique conformational diseases, because they are transmissible by misfolded protein, not only under experimental conditions but also naturally, predominantly by ingestion. Although in certain cases the inception of an experimental amyloidosis can be accelerated by the injection of amyloid into a predisposed host (82), prions are exceptional in that they are able to enter their hosts by natural portals and make their way from the gut to the brain, utilizing intermediate tissues for amplification. In the case of microbes and viruses, such sophisticated behavior is attributed to evolutionary processes, that is, genomic mutations and selection of mutants that most readily enter their host and find a suitable niche in which to replicate and/or perpetuate themselves; however, prion protein is encoded by the genome of its host. So what drives the prion to become more efficient in the destruction of its parent? We can only speculate. For example, the "misfolded" form of PrP may have originated as a "messenger" protein that on the one hand has or had a physiological function but on the other has a malignant potential that is rarely realized and was not selected against because evolutionary pressure does not operate efficiently at postreproductive age. It has been proposed that in yeast a "prion-like" phenomenon involving Sup35 may confer selective advantage on yeast growing under fluctuating environmental conditions (83). Another possibility is that PrP/PrPSc is derived from an ancient pathogen whose genetic material was integrated into the genome of its host and harnessed to fulfill a useful function while its pathogenic potential was minimized. More trivially, mammalian prion disease could be the result of the natural propensity of proteins to assume a β-sheet-rich conformation (84), a failure of the organism to prevent their formation and accumulation in some cases, and the coincidental ability of the conformational isomer to penetrate organisms and cells through natural portals.


Abbreviations

BSE bovine spongiform encephalopathy
CJD Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease
vCJD variant CJD


Footnotes

This paper results from the Arthur M. Sackler Colloquium of the National Academy of Sciences, "Self-Perpetuating Structural States in Biology, Disease, and Genetics," held March 22–24, 2002, at the National Academy of Sciences in Washington, DC.
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Abstract
"Natural" Transmission of Prions
Iatrogenic Transmission of Prions
Experimental Transmission of Surface-Bound Prions
Concluding Remarks
>>> References

References
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Figures and Tables
Figure 1
 
TimH said:
Mike- "The independent peer reviewed studies are there for all to see if you are willing to pay for them. The abstracts are proof enough for those interested in the truth."

Sooooo..... Are you admitting that NOTHING that you and reader(the 2nd) have posted so far would qualify as an independent peer reviewed study??? I think you are Mikey!!!!! :D

Some folks settle for "proof enough". Some folks like to see PROOF POSITIVE. :-)

You are seriously wrong Tim. All of these findings are peer reviewed. Go back through this thread and get educated. You turd!
 
Hey Mike, Perhaps you could copy and paste the sentence or paragraph, or whatever, contained in that article, that proves that test animals(bovine) have been infected with BSE by feeding them a normal dose(not homogenate) of infective material.
My reading and comprehension skills are just so poor that I can't seem to find it. :roll:
Thanks.

Jethro.

PS. I hope you didn't pay for that "article"! :lol:
 
TimH said:
Hey Mike, Perhaps you could copy and paste the sentence or paragraph, or whatever, contained in that article, that proves that test animals(bovine) have been infected with BSE by feeding them a normal dose(not homogenate) of infective material.
My reading and comprehension skills are just so poor that I can't seem to find it. :roll:
Thanks.

Jethro.

PS. I hope you didn't pay for that "article"! :lol:

Dawsons was cooked and dried, just as MBM would be. Not homogenated. I know you can't find it. You're not looking! :roll:

The scientific world accepts them, but I guess they aren't as smart as you, huh? Jethro :???:
 
Mike- "Dawsons was cooked and dried, just as MBM would be. Not homogenated. I know you can't find it. You're not looking!

The scientific world accepts them, but I guess they aren't as smart as you, huh? Jethro "

Did you copy and paste that from the article you posted? If not I guess YOU CAN"T FIND IT EITHER!!! Why??? Because it DOES NOT EXIST!!!
What does "smart" have to do with it??? I'm asking you and reader(the 2nd) to "show me" and you CAN"T DO IT!!!

Just admit it Mike. The "transmissable through feed THEORY" has never been proven. It is only a theory....as yet UNPROVEN!!

If you call me a turd again, I'm going to call you a.......bad person!!! :wink:
 
Mike, I get the impression that the guy from Manitoba (TimH) has never heard of Kuru. It is the classic example of "Transmissible Spongyform Encephalopathy." The cases documented by French and Australian medical teams in Papua New Guinea have proven beyond any doubt whatsoever that the infection was spread through the cannibalistic practice of people eating the brains and muscle tissue of dead relatives to harbor their captive spirits and maintain a link with their dead loved ones. The infectious prions were orally transmitted and thus the infection was spread from human cadavers to living humans. The Swiss, the Brits and the Germans, along with teams from the EU in Brussles have all declared that the main reason behind the feed ban was to stop the transmission of the PrPsc from protein enriched feed to living ungulates. The ban was unfortunately not extended to chickens or pigs and thusly their remnants were still accepted as part of the protein content for cattle feed, long after the feed ban in the late 90's. It appears that this Canadian from SW Manitoba has simply not read all the research and is blissfully uninformed.
 
I guess you have to put one more in your category of illiterate and blissfully uninformed.

bse tester
Code:
The cases documented by French and Australian medical teams in Papua New Guinea have proven beyond any doubt whatsoever that the infection was spread through the cannibalistic practice of people eating the brains and muscle tissue of dead relatives

proven beyond a doubt whatsoever. Hogwash.

Having fun yet guys. Why don't you really pull out the put downs. Call some names, show how dumb people who disagree with you are.

And - like I said before, keep supporting the unproven theory of transmission which has no positive result for the cattle producers of the world; only more hardship.

There are lots of people supporting transmission including those who will benefit from the theory. :wink: AND IT IS ONLY A THEORY.

If more people were to support, or even look at the environmental theory of Purdey, and his growing list of followers, we may all have a brighter future in this bloody industry.
 
bse tester- "Mike, I get the impression that the guy from Manitoba (TimH) has never heard of Kuru. It is the classic example of "Transmissible Spongyform Encephalopathy." The cases documented by French and Australian medical teams in Papua New Guinea have proven beyond any doubt whatsoever that the infection was spread through the cannibalistic practice of people eating the brains and muscle tissue of dead relatives to harbor their captive spirits and maintain a link with their dead loved ones. The infectious prions were orally transmitted and thus the infection was spread from human cadavers to living humans. The Swiss, the Brits and the Germans, along with teams from the EU in Brussles have all declared that the main reason behind the feed ban was to stop the transmission of the PrPsc from protein enriched feed to living ungulates. The ban was unfortunately not extended to chickens or pigs and thusly their remnants were still accepted as part of the protein content for cattle feed, long after the feed ban in the late 90's. It appears that this Canadian from SW Manitoba has simply not read all the research and is blissfully uninformed."

Hey bse tester, Maybe you should go back and re-read the whole thread and then show me where I said anything about kuru or anything else OTHER THAN THE LACK OF A PUBLISHED, PEER REVIEWED ,INDEPENDENT SCIENTIFIC STUDY IN WHICH A BOVINE HAS BEEN INFECTED WITH BSE BY FEEDING IT A NORMAL DOSE OF INFECTIVE MATERIAL. :roll:

What is really funny is that I am the one whose reading skills are questioned and I get called "uninformed".
C'mon bse tester, why not go ahead and do what Mike and reader(the 2nd) could not do. Show us such a study.
BTW, it is "spongiform" with an "i" , not "spongyform" with a "y". I would have thought that a respected bse researcher,such as yourself, would at least be capable of correctly spelling the name of the disease he is trying to sell a test kit for. Guess not. :roll:
 
Hey!! Where did everybody go??? reader(the second)??? Mike??? bse tester??? Oldtimer????
The challenge is quite simple. Copy and paste a sentence, phrase, paragraph or whatever, from an independent scientific study, which proves that BSE can be transmitted through feeding a normal dose of infective material.
You won't because you can't.Simple as that .

I have to go study my elementary school reader now so I can keep up with all of you wizards! :roll:
 
Kathy -
By the way, the Well's study (flawed) used homogenate, and had to drench it directly into the stomach (called "orally challenged"). They also fudged results by pooling brain samples, ie: a single positive sample was pooled with two others that tested negative. When the pooled sample was retested, viola – suddenly all three animals were positives.



As for Purdey accepting transmission via consumption, again R2 shows her propaganda management skills. Consumption of WHAT is the real question here. She says prions – Mark says "not prions", but the "building blocks" of prions like manganese and other metals that can become ferromagnetic (copper cannot be magnetized).



The C. Weismann study on spread visa surgical instruments, also had an interesting thing happen. You see the controls disappeared. Could they have caused or initiated disease processes visa there metal content alone?



As for VLA, and Dr. Matthews, in my personal communications with him, this year, he stated they would publish their info very soon. I think, R2 implied it could be 5 years from now (maybe she meant 5 years from 2000?). Once again, Dr. Matthews refused to answer my question as to whether the experiments used "injected" or "orally challenged" "homogenized" tissue. I must assume from his refusal to answer this question, the answer is probably, "yes".



Why all the debate? When a non-rancher, and others who are of questionable sources, have to spend hoards of time writing in defense of the 'infectious theory' on a rancher's message board, I have to wonder about their reasoning for such efforts. To use the Harvard Risk Assessment, the Horne Report, and the AARI report to refute the alternative hypotheses, when it is known and accepted fact, that they contain false and misleading information about the use of OPs (no reference to concentration levels escalading in the early 80s to levels never used before, for example); how repetitive their argument is getting.



People can choose what they want to hear – that's OK! But, to be told what you should believe, without allowing for all the facts – this is wrong. We should be allowed to share our questions and evidence fairly and calmly, and under no threat of being called a Turd or uneducated. What right does anyone on this board have, to denigrate another person because they question the facts presented to them (by these very biased individuals).



This is worse than the BSE crisis. Being controlled and pushed into their way of thinking – or else suffer the consequences and their ridicule. This unethical thought control is exactly what prevents the scientists that don't go along with the "infectious" hypothesis, from speaking out. They are no different than any other human, educated or not. They do not wish to be ridiculed and excluded from the loop, any more than you or I.



Getting to the bottom/truth of this BSE disaster, will take people who are willing to stick their necks, their names, and their futures, on the line for truth. Followers are a dime a dozen, but, leaders and discoverers are rare indeed. Tim H and Randy are obviously not followers. I applaud their efforts on this board.



Yes, we should all look up the facts for ourselves. Get off your butts and do your homework. My last two and half years of research leads me to believe that the cattle industry has been scammed; and we will continue to pay the consequences for a long time. If you can make a living on your ranch, good on you – but expect a heavy parasite load in the future.



One hundred years from now, we might know all the answers, but for now, lets get real here, and face the fact that transmissibility has been shown via iatrogenic means only (this includes lab/mice experiments). If BSE were a highly infectious disease caused by the consumption of as little as 0.1 grams of pure prions – these poor lab mice would all be dying of the disease – but they are not! Prions are not living organisms. They are therefore, incapable of being "infectious".
 
Big Muddy rancher said:
Mike said:
Find them yourself Tim.

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/


Does this mean that Tim won? :shock:


Mike and Reader are :oops: :??

If you mean by "WON" that taking up my time in a useless endeavor. Yes.
There is enough evidence posted in this thread alone to show a reasonable person that BSE is transmitted by feed. Unreasonable people cannot be satisfied by any means and should be considered a waste of time.

All research studies are sold on the market as a means to recoup the initial costs. The abstracts are available for the overall results. I'll be damned if I am gonna pay for one to prove a point on here.

The world's scientists agree that feed is the source of BSE transmission. Period. I have questioned it myself because of the number of cattle (over 40,000) that tested positive after BARB (Feed Ban) in England. But the overwhelming evidence is that this was caused by leftover feed.

Convincing someone of something that he/she chooses not to believe in is an impossibility in itself. Why go to the extremes to try? Proving a point does not become a personal endeavor to me like some others here.
 
Come now reader. Is divide and conquer your new tactic?
Tim is right. You have never once posted any information to disprove his claim.
There is no proof that BSE is an infectious, transmissible disease.
 
Wasting your time??? :roll:
R2,,, it is your only goal in life to try to convince the masses by attempting to convince a few truth seekers like myself, Tim and Kathy.

You can post every article over and over again if you like. Not one of these, or any other, will convince me.

We have talked over and over again of what Purdey beleives, and yet you continually want to post a bold face lie that Purdery agrees with you. Metal contaminants may be passed through your hero's experiments, but that does not prove transmission of BSE.

How many times do I have to tell you or SH, or Agman, I don't give a rats patooty about what anyone who reads what I say thinks. If you are out to convince the masses of your BS, keep firing back R2. Most are already on your side, as no one really likes to challenge something as financially backed as this one.

Why don't you start the experiment yurself R2. Our own BSE tester can get his hands on BSE material, you should be able to. Get a government grant, and set up a trial. According to your esteemed collegues, it should not take that long. Although the only test to even come close was shut down in England after years with no results. You know the one I mean, so neither one of us has to look that one up and post it. In fact, I beleive the findings would be a bit harder to post than the continuous drivel you and Mike come up with.
 
Mike, I could not have put it better. Your comments rgarding this lame-brain insult hurling guy who goes by the name TimH are well founded. There are those who will never accept anything placed in front of them no matter what the level of authenticity may be with respect to the data and research being shown. As for the correct spelling of Spong-y - i - ie- form bo-diddly or whatever the hell you want it to be Tim, I couldn't give a rat's backside as to how it is spelllttt. It was a simple slip of the typing finger I guess. Go to the www.SEBM and look for that which you so desperately seek. There are some in the also. TimH, you would do well to remember that we share information here that we are able to share and we try not to get involved in insulting each other or calling names and crap like that, so try and keep thatin mind or you may find yourself being ignored more than you already are - so hey, play nice with the rest of the kids in the pool and we will all get along.
 
Hahaha!! :D That's it. Keep the put downs coming my way and just maybe people will forget that NONE OF YOU WERE ABLE TO POST WHAT I ASKED FOR.

R2- "I second Mike. Why waste the time? We posted numerous citations involving calves being fed BSE material. Tim didn't even refute them, just ignored them. "

Would that be the study in which calves were DRENCHED WITH HOMOGENATE(forced into their digestive tract) and then ,lo and behold, infectivity was found in their digestive tracts?? What about in their brains,which is the organ that is tested to confirm full-blown BSE. No mention of that in these studies.

R2-"TimH was a waste of energy."

Well then stop wasting your energy posting all these studies that do not prove that scientists have been able to infect a bovine with BSE by feeding it a normal dosage of infective material. Simply copy and paste the pertinent info from one of the studies you have posted ,so far. How hard can that be?

bse tester-"Your comments rgarding this lame-brain insult hurling guy who goes by the name TimH are well founded. "

bse tester-(in the same post) " ... we try not to get involved in insulting each other or calling names and crap like that, so try and keep thatin mind "

Huh???? You call me "lame-brain" even after I call you a "well respected bse researcher"??? And then you tell me "we try not to get involved in insulting each other or calling names and crap like that, so try and keep thatin mind " Ya, OK. :?

Why don't one of you just go ahead and post what I'm asking for? Then you will be right and I will be wrong. Oh I forgot.... it would be a waste of your time and energy. Time and energy that is much better spent commenting on my reading skills , chiding me for imaginary name calling even as you call me names.
You won't post this study because you can't. You can't because no such study exists.
Too FUNNY!!!! :D
 

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