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Mandatory country-of-origin labeling

Tam, like I said before, I don't understand why you complain about our shortfalls, but then still push a North American industry. That makes no sense. If we're such a bunch of idiots, why do you want us as your business partners?

All of those shortfalls you have pointed out less M-ID are issues R-CALF has been complaining about as well. Didn't know you had so much in common with us, did you?

How in the world can you recognize that the US packers control 80% of the packing industry in Canada (notice I didn't say Canadain Industry), but not recognize they have all the power? Are you aware of that?
 
Tam ,That type of Trace and Age won't sell beef in most countrys as the rules are changing for most countrys .traceability is out and traceback's in
Tam: We have Traceability to birth place on whole herd and a good start on the age vertification but you are still trying to figure out how to get COOL past the packers in the US so you don't have time to work on what your marketplace is actually demanding, Traceability.

Defination of traceability,partial traceback at selected points along the way from field to fork.

Traceback,point-to-point verification of movement.
 
Econ101 said:
Beefman said:
Econ101 said:
SH, that hamburger meat that used up the fat replaced domestic production for hamburger. To claim that using excess fat with the use of imports helps the domestic producers is ludicrous.

That argument is about as persuasive as your argument that making ofal into MBM to be sold as cattle feed creates "efficiencies" in the cattle industry. Ask any Canadian the answer to that one.
There is a reason Agman did not answer my post.

By the way, when I cook bacon, I usually throw out the fat.

Lots of innovation, funded by R&D from checkoff funds has yielded new products from both the chuck and round. Flat irons, petite tenders just to name a few. Bottom line, more value from those cuts that used to go in the grinder with the trim. Why would we not want to add more value to the beef carcass?

Much like your reference to bacon. An excellent way to add value to whole muscle cuts that otherwise have little value.

Beefman

Beefman, I have been eating those cuts of meat for a long time. They are nothing new. Just marketing.

I can tell you one thing, those cuts of meat are a lot better from a choice beef than a select beef.

Steak and Shake say they use the whole carcass in their hamburgers and my kids like them. They get a pretty penny for the meat in those hamburgers.


Okay, Econ, where were you buying the flat iron steak and beef tenders?
The muscles those very tender cuts are cut from out of the those muscles were not traditionally used in that way. With Beef Checkoff funded research, the shoulder clod was carefully dis-assembled, muscle by muscle to find the most tender and most flavorful muscles to use in new ways to create those cuts. It did not simply HAPPEN. Those primal cuts were not traditionally cut into Flat Iron and Petite Tender steaks, but were low cost roasts, stew meat or ground beef.

MRJ

Now, I'm happy for you that you can afford to take your kids to Steak and Shake, but not all families are so fortunate. We need low cost hamburger so that more people can afford to eat beef. We need a market for our fat trim beef. More cull cows and bulls are being fed grain and they, too, are producing fat trim when it used to be lean. Looks to me like the system is working pretty well, and being improved by people who are doing things to make that happen rather than just complaining and blaming.
 
I can tell you one thing, those cuts of meat are a lot better from a choice beef than a select beef.

Steak and Shake say they use the whole carcass in their hamburgers and my kids like them. They get a pretty penny for the meat in those hamburgers.

Can you tell us if Steak and Shake uses choice?

More likely they use whole carcass cull cows. Good burger meat but not the type of carcass that is cut into choice steaks.
 
Sandhusker said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
Sandhusker said:
Egypt has higher domestic standards than the US? Are you serious? Egypt? Come on, BMR, you can't possibly believe that.

No, BMR, you are totally wrong about me wanting having higher standards on imported beef than our own. Right now, we have lower standards, and that makes no sense from a consumer's standpoint or from the standpoint of wanting to be seen as the world's purveyor of the highest quality beef.


Maybe your a "LEGEND IN YOUR OWN MIND" you want to be the "PURVEYORS" of the worlds finesnt beef but keep DREAMING. :cowboy:

You know, BMR, I think that statement shows that you really haven't thought out what your problems up there are from, where you want your industry to go, and how to get there. I think you just want to fight R-CALF on whatever stand they take. I'm not trying to poke you in the chest, but that is my honest take and here's why.

COOL - if you truly think your beef and beef infrastructure is superior to ours, it is in your best interest that we have COOL. Right now, the vast majority of your beef is being sold as US. What kind of businessman would be satisfied with their superior product being sold as a lessor? Why would you go to the trouble and expense of any kind of traceback or animal ID if your product is lumped with someone who has no comparable system? You're getting no return on your investment.

You get on R-CALF becasue we reject the notion of a North American industry, and you chide us because we're furious our government has laxer standards that our customers. If you're going to profit from an allied industry and you're to get any benefit from that association, you want your partner to have a solid reputation. How can we have that solid reputation when we accept product nobody else will?

R-CALF is mad as hell that the big packers call the shots at the USDA and our stand is that agency capture has got to be reversed. You chide us for that, when you have the exact same problem up there! You have lost your industry up there to US packers and now you're just a bunch of cats on the US packers steps hoping to get a little milk. For the most part, there is no Canadian packing industry, only US packers in Canada - and you have to go thru them. But, I guess you don't mind being dependant on Americans and having to dance to whatever we fiddle.

Right now, you can't seperate yourself from us, so you'd better hope the world sees us as the supplier of the highest qualtiy product in the world.


It's hard to see R-CALF in a favorable light when we hear lies about Canadian beef and have R-CALF launching trade actions and going to court to stop the border opening. If they want Canadians help in changing this industry they sure have a funny way of going about it.
About seperating our selves from you ,I think our M,ID will take us a ways upstream.
 
Jason, If I were still a betting man I would give you 9.5 to 1 odds that you are correct in your assumption on the steak and shake hamburgers coming from cows. They are still good. We don't go out there often (3 times in last 7 years) but like I said before, I always critically review my beef meal.

MRJ, We don't live that close to Steak and Shake so we don't go there that often. We can afford to pay for it when we go. The place is pretty busy so I don't think cost is the main factor. I like their fries too.

I think, and your terms may depend on the region you live in, that those two cuts come off above the shoulder. I used to help my grandfather butcher his calves that he fed out. He liked to fatten a young bull mostly, and I think that the meat from those young bulls was to my liking more than anything else. When we butchered a beef, we would call Jim James out to help us. Jim James was an old friend of my grandfather (both now deceased) and he brought the knives. Jim James would help butcher for the parts my grandfather didn't want which included the tripe, parts of the head, the bowels, and a few other little things. Jim James would tell me not to sling the bowels out too much, sling them once, and never wash them out. Jim Jame's claim to fame, as I recollect, was that he had 27 children and who knows how many grandchildren, and great grand children and a few great great grand children. The man was ancient and his face was very leathery. Since he was one of my grandfather's good friends from the old days (I mean old days) I looked up to him and his respected skills in butchering.

We would always hang the beef, quarter it, and then cut out everything else. Since most of our cuts through the bone had to be done by hand, we separated muscles a little differently than the cuts you buy at the store. NOTHING was wasted. I used to quiz my grandfather on the cut of meat he liked best. He would only say, "The part that goes over the fence last". I don't really know if that was the oxtail soup that he made or some part of the top round or loin. If you cook them right, they are all good. Jim James could tell you how you had to cook every piece to make it come out the best. I personally did not like roasts and would try to put most of them in hamburger meat which could be blended with the extra trim. The petite tender, I believe, was part of the top blade (the bottom has a little more gristle) and was cut out of that roast. We didn't call it that though. I know it more from where it is cut out of the beef than the name. Sounds a little french to me.

If you think about all of the meats, you will realize that the loin is the most tender and everything else goes out from there. We packaged them up not by their names all of the time, but by how you would cook it: steaks, roasts, stew meat, hamburger, oxtail (isn't that the last part to go over the fence?), and all of the other names you probably know.

By butchering our own, I was able to tell a lot more about the difference beteen young bulls, steers, heifers, cows....etc and how they compared in yield and quality.

Beef wasn't the only thing we butchered. All of the game species kind of goes under the same over all concept of cut quality depending on location with a few glands that you have to make sure to remove.

I always said my grandfather (who was half Indian, I think) could eat anything if it didn't crawl away fast enough. 'Coons, possum, all kinds of ducks, snakes, frogs, armidillos, and even alligator made it onto the plate. Road kill was not out of the question and yes, I do know how to tell if it has been dead too long. If you cook it right, it can taste pretty good. My grandfather even made my grandmother a blackbird pie when she was real sick and asked for it. I never had that. Clarence, I really do know about rattlesnake-- and other kinds of snake (I never ate a cottonmouth because they always smelled so bad when you skinned them). My mom used to cook chicken feet too, but I wouldn't ever try them--- I knew where the chickens walked.

I think the most interesting eating was when my grandfather would eat squirrel brains. He would get the back of the butter knife, crack the gumbo cooked squirrel head and suck out the brain. Pretty gross. I just stayed with the squirrel body. You get pretty smart as a young kid when you realize that after castrating pigs you would have finger steaks for supper. What you don't know, won't hurt you. Put a french name on it an there you go.

MRJ, I don't think you could call it "rich" the way we ate at his house, but it was filling. If you didn't get enough to eat, it was your own fault.

I had a friend (don't read this if you think it might be too crude) in Idaho when I lived up there that would always talk about women. He was never really nasty about it, but would just go on and on with a little twinkle in his eye as he talked. He made a big deal out of eating beaver. I knew what he was referring to but I never let on. The farmer and his wife that I was living with went on a little mini-vacation. They left me with the farm to run. One night, after trapping on the snake river, I called this guy over and told him I was cooking some backstrap. He came over, and I cooked up some real nice pieces about the size of a silver dollar. We ate and he complimented me on the good meal. Then he got to thinking about the fact that deer season was not open and that I wouldn't have any access to backstrap. He put two and two together (this is the same kind of trick I might play on SH if I lived near him) and asked me what I had been trapping that day. Of course I had to tell him it was some beaver from the river. You should have looked at his face. I thought he was going to die.

At least I made an honest man out of him.

MRJ, I am glad other people know how to come up with the "novel" idea that some of these cuts of meat are really good. It is all just a french name on an old cut of meat. Nothing new. I am not even going to go into the kinds of things my Filipino aunt eats. I am glad that NCBA sold the idea to get a higher value for those cuts. It is all a matter of selling.

It is ironic that fat costs more to put on an animal than muscle, and that you get less for pure fat than anything else except the things Jim James takes.

Sorry this post was so long.
 
Sandhusker said:
Tam, like I said before, I don't understand why you complain about our shortfalls, but then still push a North American industry. That makes no sense. If we're such a bunch of idiots, why do you want us as your business partners?
Just because you don't seem to want to see it as a North American market doesn't mean the rest of the world don't see us as that. As long as we want to trade with the rest of the world it really doesn't matter what you and R-CALF think we are, all that is important is what our future trading partners think. Japan told the trade delegations that were over there right after this whole mess broke out that they would only trade with us as a North American market. So if trading with each other is the only way to get back into the Asian markets then I would think the US would also want to get this border open and trade going. But no R-CALF thinks they know better and they will do anything to stop Canadian imports even if it means not openning the Asian markets.
All of those shortfalls you have pointed out less M-ID are issues R-CALF has been complaining about as well. Didn't know you had so much in common with us, did you?
Gee I would have to wonder which of the stories the public has heard from R-CALF more the one about how bad your firewalls are and how they failed to stop the BSE postive cow from entering the food chain or the one about how you have these firewalls in place so if BSE was ever found in the US it would be a non issue? Which one of these The US isn't testing the cattle the OIE recommended and the US is not using the same test most everyone else is to confirm their inconclusive test samples or The US does a better job of testing for BSE and the US tests 150,000 head more annually than Canada? Which one of these the GAO investigated the FDA and the US has big problems and they need to be fixed if the US hopes to protect their herd from the spread of BSE or The US has 99% compliance to they feed bans and Canada has a chronic problem with theirs? Or which of these we have problems in our industry and we need to work together to fix them for the protection of all our consumers or all Canadian beef is tainted and a genuine risk of death if imported but the US's beef is the safest in the World? Flip Flop is what they do best Sandhusker so how are we really to know what they think.
How in the world can you recognize that the US packers control 80% of the packing industry in Canada (notice I didn't say Canadain Industry), but not recognize they have all the power? Are you aware of that?
Why do you refuse to answer my question. You want to blame the US packers for your inability to get anything done in the US (M"ID") but yet we have two of the largest US packers right here in Canada and we were able to accomplish what you couldn't, Why is that Sandhusker? Why did the US packers just let us impliment a system that would only put pressure on the US to do the same if they wanted to keep pace with the rest of the beef producing nations? Why wouldn't they have just put the powerful big foot down and told us no you can't do that like you think they are doing to you?
 
Defination of traceability,partial traceback at selected points along the way from field to fork.

Traceback,point-to-point verification of movement.
JAPAN wants traceback for imports of beef ,just ask Austrailia,Tam.
Japan told the trade delegations that were over there right after this whole mess broke out that they would only trade with us as a North American market. So if trading with each other is the only way to get back into the Asian markets then I would think the US would also want to get this border open and trade going.
 
PORKER said:
Defination of traceability,partial traceback at selected points along the way from field to fork.

Traceback,point-to-point verification of movement.
JAPAN wants traceback for imports of beef ,just ask Austrailia,Tam.
Japan told the trade delegations that were over there right after this whole mess broke out that they would only trade with us as a North American market. So if trading with each other is the only way to get back into the Asian markets then I would think the US would also want to get this border open and trade going.


We are much farther along on TRACEBACK or Tracking because of what we have done as compared to the US.
I think the US does want to get this border open and trade going, It's R-CALF that's dragging their feet and everybody else down with them.

If R-CALF wants solutions then they better get out of the way cause they aren't helping.
 
Tam, if Japan truly saw us as a North American market, why were they still taking our beef after they stopped taking yours? They clearly made a distinction between the US and Canada. Actions speak louder than words.

In everything I have read lately about Japan reopening to us, I see age limits, SRM removal, Japanese inspectors, nothing about us resuming trade with you. If I'm missing it, I'd appreciate it if you could post something from the Japanese.

R-CALF isn't flip-flopping on our firewalls. We have them in place, and they would work very well if they would be enforced. The first line of defense firewall was closing our borders....

We would of had COOL if not for the packer's employee, Henry Bonilla.
 
Excellent story on Jim James Econ! I share many of the same memories of helping an elderly butcher. I helped him butcher hogs, make head cheese, liver sausage, etc. Many of these things are lost today. Thanks for sharing that.

As far as explaining where you eat or any other personal matter, I don't feel its anyone's business and no explanation is neccessary. Hope you are enjoying your weekend.
 
Sandhusker said:
Tam, if Japan truly saw us as a North American market, why were they still taking our beef after they stopped taking yours? They clearly made a distinction between the US and Canada. Actions speak louder than words.

In everything I have read lately about Japan reopening to us, I see age limits, SRM removal, Japanese inspectors, nothing about us resuming trade with you. If I'm missing it, I'd appreciate it if you could post something from the Japanese.

R-CALF isn't flip-flopping on our firewalls. We have them in place, and they would work very well if they would be enforced. The first line of defense firewall was closing our borders....

We would of had COOL if not for the packer's employee, Henry Bonilla.

Spout that all you want Sandhusker but think back what happen in DEC 2003 in the US that showed the rest of the world just how integrated our two countries are? After the OIE took a look at the investigation and found that the US had no hope of ever finding all the cattle they had imported from Canada and all the US cattle that had eaten feed from a Canadian feed source because of the massive trade that has been going on between our to countries in animals and feed for a hundred plus years, they realize as did Japan that you can't just seperate us. That is why they now think of us as one big market. If the USDA had been able to find all those cows and dispose of them like we did in 1993 then maybe the OIE would not have told them
Having examined the information provided on trade in live cattle and livestock feed ingredients within the North American Free Trade Agreement(NAFTA), the subcommittee firmly believes that the first case of BSE in the United States can not be considered in isolation from the whole cattle production system in North America. The significance of this BSE case cannot be dismissed by considering it "an imported case". The first BSE case detected in the USA, and the first "indigenous case" reported in Canada in 2003, must be recognised as both being BSE cases indigenous to North America. For this reason, close collaboration between all appropriate agencies in NAFTA is essential for the proper management of North America's BSE problem.

R-CALF isn't flip-flopping on our firewalls. We have them in place, and they would work very well if they would be enforced. The first line of defense firewall was closing our borders....
What a JOKE Sandhusker, R-CALF isn't flip flopping :wink:

That is a little like closing the barn door after the horses are in the neighbors grain field isn't it? If the Firewalls you have can only work if the border is closed what are they doing for the risk that IS IN THE US? Remember the Washington Cow was born in Canada but that is not where she was when she was found with BSE and remember the age of the Texas cow, 12 years old, ours were only 7 and 8 years old that would tell most that you had BSE before Canada. I'm not surprized that you didn't know given the testing the USDA was doing. But that doesn't change the fact that if your firewalls that Leo thinks he can tell the consumers about only protect against importing BSE they aren't being protected like Leo thinks against Native BSE are they? And if they didn't flip flop on the safety of beef coming from a country with a native case of BSE why aren't Leo and Bill out telling consumers the US beef is a genuine risk of death like they are about Canadian beef.
We would of had COOL if not for the packer's employee, Henry Bonilla.
According to some The demand for source- and age-verified cattle is growing at a phenomenal rate both domestically and globally. And you would have had a good start on M"ID" if it wasn't for R-CALF now wouldn't you have? Blame is the game but for goodness sake don't take responibility for your part in why your industry is following every other beef producing nation when it comes to what is really being demanded.
 
STAFF said:
Tam ,That type of Trace and Age won't sell beef in most countrys as the rules are changing for most countrys .traceability is out and traceback's in
Tam: We have Traceability to birth place on whole herd and a good start on the age vertification but you are still trying to figure out how to get COOL past the packers in the US so you don't have time to work on what your marketplace is actually demanding, Traceability.

Defination of traceability,partial traceback at selected points along the way from field to fork.

Traceback,point-to-point verification of movement.
taken from the Cow Calf weekly
Canada has regained a much higher portion than the U.S. of its lost markets, but the message has been lost on U.S. cattlemen. The issue of traceability -- source, age or process verification -- isn't about governments, trade, food safety or animal health. It's about responding to the marketplace.
Gee Staff I guess we responsed to the marketplace and it shows in the much higher portion of lost markets being regained. Says something for our system doesn't it Staff?
 
Tam said:
STAFF said:
Tam ,That type of Trace and Age won't sell beef in most countrys as the rules are changing for most countrys .traceability is out and traceback's in
Tam: We have Traceability to birth place on whole herd and a good start on the age vertification but you are still trying to figure out how to get COOL past the packers in the US so you don't have time to work on what your marketplace is actually demanding, Traceability.

Defination of traceability,partial traceback at selected points along the way from field to fork.

Traceback,point-to-point verification of movement.
taken from the Cow Calf weekly
Canada has regained a much higher portion than the U.S. of its lost markets, but the message has been lost on U.S. cattlemen. The issue of traceability -- source, age or process verification -- isn't about governments, trade, food safety or animal health. It's about responding to the marketplace.
Gee Staff I guess we responsed to the marketplace and it shows in the much higher portion of lost markets being regained. Says something for our system doesn't it Staff?

Tam, the only portion of your lost market you regained was us! Talk about a misleading statement.
 
Currently Canada exports 81% of our exports to the US. Mexico is our next largest market at about 12% Hong Kong takes about 4% and the rest is split between 48 other countries.

Japan and Korea were our number 2 and 3 markets pre BSE.
 
Econ101 said:
Jason, If I were still a betting man I would give you 9.5 to 1 odds that you are correct in your assumption on the steak and shake hamburgers coming from cows. They are still good. We don't go out there often (3 times in last 7 years) but like I said before, I always critically review my beef meal.

MRJ, We don't live that close to Steak and Shake so we don't go there that often. We can afford to pay for it when we go. The place is pretty busy so I don't think cost is the main factor. I like their fries too.

I think, and your terms may depend on the region you live in, that those two cuts come off above the shoulder. I used to help my grandfather butcher his calves that he fed out. He liked to fatten a young bull mostly, and I think that the meat from those young bulls was to my liking more than anything else. When we butchered a beef, we would call Jim James out to help us. Jim James was an old friend of my grandfather (both now deceased) and he brought the knives. Jim James would help butcher for the parts my grandfather didn't want which included the tripe, parts of the head, the bowels, and a few other little things. Jim James would tell me not to sling the bowels out too much, sling them once, and never wash them out. Jim Jame's claim to fame, as I recollect, was that he had 27 children and who knows how many grandchildren, and great grand children and a few great great grand children. The man was ancient and his face was very leathery. Since he was one of my grandfather's good friends from the old days (I mean old days) I looked up to him and his respected skills in butchering.

We would always hang the beef, quarter it, and then cut out everything else. Since most of our cuts through the bone had to be done by hand, we separated muscles a little differently than the cuts you buy at the store. NOTHING was wasted. I used to quiz my grandfather on the cut of meat he liked best. He would only say, "The part that goes over the fence last". I don't really know if that was the oxtail soup that he made or some part of the top round or loin. If you cook them right, they are all good. Jim James could tell you how you had to cook every piece to make it come out the best. I personally did not like roasts and would try to put most of them in hamburger meat which could be blended with the extra trim. The petite tender, I believe, was part of the top blade (the bottom has a little more gristle) and was cut out of that roast. We didn't call it that though. I know it more from where it is cut out of the beef than the name. Sounds a little french to me.

If you think about all of the meats, you will realize that the loin is the most tender and everything else goes out from there. We packaged them up not by their names all of the time, but by how you would cook it: steaks, roasts, stew meat, hamburger, oxtail (isn't that the last part to go over the fence?), and all of the other names you probably know.

By butchering our own, I was able to tell a lot more about the difference beteen young bulls, steers, heifers, cows....etc and how they compared in yield and quality.

Beef wasn't the only thing we butchered. All of the game species kind of goes under the same over all concept of cut quality depending on location with a few glands that you have to make sure to remove.

I always said my grandfather (who was half Indian, I think) could eat anything if it didn't crawl away fast enough. 'Coons, possum, all kinds of ducks, snakes, frogs, armidillos, and even alligator made it onto the plate. Road kill was not out of the question and yes, I do know how to tell if it has been dead too long. If you cook it right, it can taste pretty good. My grandfather even made my grandmother a blackbird pie when she was real sick and asked for it. I never had that. Clarence, I really do know about rattlesnake-- and other kinds of snake (I never ate a cottonmouth because they always smelled so bad when you skinned them). My mom used to cook chicken feet too, but I wouldn't ever try them--- I knew where the chickens walked.

I think the most interesting eating was when my grandfather would eat squirrel brains. He would get the back of the butter knife, crack the gumbo cooked squirrel head and suck out the brain. Pretty gross. I just stayed with the squirrel body. You get pretty smart as a young kid when you realize that after castrating pigs you would have finger steaks for supper. What you don't know, won't hurt you. Put a french name on it an there you go.

MRJ, I don't think you could call it "rich" the way we ate at his house, but it was filling. If you didn't get enough to eat, it was your own fault.

I had a friend (don't read this if you think it might be too crude) in Idaho when I lived up there that would always talk about women. He was never really nasty about it, but would just go on and on with a little twinkle in his eye as he talked. He made a big deal out of eating beaver. I knew what he was referring to but I never let on. The farmer and his wife that I was living with went on a little mini-vacation. They left me with the farm to run. One night, after trapping on the snake river, I called this guy over and told him I was cooking some backstrap. He came over, and I cooked up some real nice pieces about the size of a silver dollar. We ate and he complimented me on the good meal. Then he got to thinking about the fact that deer season was not open and that I wouldn't have any access to backstrap. He put two and two together (this is the same kind of trick I might play on SH if I lived near him) and asked me what I had been trapping that day. Of course I had to tell him it was some beaver from the river. You should have looked at his face. I thought he was going to die.

At least I made an honest man out of him.

MRJ, I am glad other people know how to come up with the "novel" idea that some of these cuts of meat are really good. It is all just a french name on an old cut of meat. Nothing new. I am not even going to go into the kinds of things my Filipino aunt eats. I am glad that NCBA sold the idea to get a higher value for those cuts. It is all a matter of selling.

It is ironic that fat costs more to put on an animal than muscle, and that you get less for pure fat than anything else except the things Jim James takes.

Sorry this post was so long.

Econ, my point of your being able to treat your family to Steak and Shake place was (I thought obviously.....maybe not to some) in reference to your mentions of your work and education........and the point there are many people not as well educated, and not at favorably employed as you are, who need a lower cost product if they are to be able to eat beef.

Thanks for sharing the interesting story of your grandfathers' friend and the process of butchering. We did our own butchering until about 1954 when electricity and a butcher shop/locker for frozen food storage, as well as home freezers came to this area for the first time. Probably the locker was here before that, using the city electric plant for power, I'm not certain, but am pretty sure it wasn't the late 1940's, or early '50's. I don't recall much about "products" of the butchering except that my grandmother cooked brain and sweetbreads as a special treat for my grandfather and we children were grossed out by the very idea! My mother was pretty particular about what "cuts" came into the house, too, so we didn't have the experiences you write of. Apparently, you lived in the south. I believe we did/do not enjoy so many "exotic" meats as you do down there. Racoon and Rattlesnake are maybe the most exotic things we had the possibility of exposure to. And most definitely neither of them made it into my mothers kitchen! She grew up in very tough situations, but guess she never got that hungry, or maybe they were all hunted out at that time. She and my brothers were pretty handy with a .22 and we did eat quite a lot of cottontail rabbit when I was growing up.

Do you think there were many people, or professionals who cut the meat as you say your family did? You sound a little as though you believe that research finding those "new" cuts was foolish or redundant. However, they were not traditionally being utilized in the best end product given the superior taste and, yes superior tenderness.

Tenderness is measureable now, and I've heard many times that the very most tender muscle is in that shoulder clod. Now just which muscle groups comprise the shoulder clod, I'm not certain of.

It's possible the "Petite Tender" name is a copy-cat of the "Petite Filet" to which it compares quite favorably, I'm told by people who have tried it. I have not yet had the opportunity. I have eaten some of the Flat Iron steaks and found them great. But then again, my taste may not be the best example since an excellent thick Sirloin is my favorite.

I, too, am glad for the excellent salesmanship of NCBA's Federation division staff, for developing and getting those new cuts into the marketplace, and for the many excellent new heat and eat beef products introduced over the past few years. They all have contributed to the current high cattle prices we are enjoying.
MRJ
 
MRJ:"Econ, my point of your being able to treat your family to Steak and Shake place was (I thought obviously.....maybe not to some) in reference to your mentions of your work and education"

I took exception with your statement MRJ as I was getting caught up on the posts and I saw your post to Econ that said: "first, you cannot possibly know what SH might think. Second, if you are encouraging people to wonder if what you say he "probably" thinks just might be true, isn't that deceitful and scurrilous? Maybe even worse than the "name calling" you complain about, yet which you indulge in rather underhanded-like in your last paragraph."

These are from a few of SH's previous posts:

"Once again, you reveal your complete ignorance of this industry.
Once again you don't know what the hell you are talking about.
Let me know when your sky really does fall, fear mongerer!
Say no to drugs Randy!
PATHETIC !Q^(#*&@(@#!
conspiracy theorists like you
Typical of pathetic blamers like you
DAMN SOCIALIST! "

If you are going to put the black robe on and tell people what is "deceitful & scurrilous", Why not judge them all? How about the implication that Randy is on drugs, Econ is a damn socialist, & on & on! Do you only point these things out to those who don't always agree with you? Sounds like pretty blind justice you are crying for MRJ. Econ apologized, now I believe its your turn! I try to stay out of these things but, even I get fedup2!
 
Elementary Economics: "SH, that hamburger meat that used up the fat replaced domestic production for hamburger. To claim that using excess fat with the use of imports helps the domestic producers is ludicrous."


It is a cold hard fact that imported lean trimmings from Australia and New Zealand add value to our surplus 50/50 trim. This is a price positive situation for U.S. producers. For you to suggest otherwise is ludicrous.

Once again, you reveal your complete ignorance of the facts of these issues. Don't you get tired of constantly being introduced to your own ignorance?


~SH~
 
~SH~ said:
Elementary Economics: "SH, that hamburger meat that used up the fat replaced domestic production for hamburger. To claim that using excess fat with the use of imports helps the domestic producers is ludicrous."


It is a cold hard fact that imported lean trimmings from Australia and New Zealand add value to our surplus 50/50 trim. This is a price positive situation for U.S. producers. For you to suggest otherwise is ludicrous.

Once again, you reveal your complete ignorance of the facts of these issues. Don't you get tired of constantly being introduced to your own ignorance?


~SH~

Only if you are a packer. Most domestic producers are not packers.
 
MRJ,

I am glad that U.S. packers are starting to see the wisdom in such a "common" man as Jim James. I just don't want all the credit to go to packers, ncba, or anyone else. It was the advertising that made the difference and letting everyone else know what Jim James knew. That cut of meat was always there, but like so many people like Jim James, it was not appreciated as it should have been.
 

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