• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

Minerals... Loose vs. Block

I'm back. Got back from the Minnesota State Fair on Sunday night about 8. This thread was really helpful. For the beef project we had to listen to this 15 minute presentation then take an 18 question test on the computer. And one of the questions was: What are the two main minerals in Trace Mineral Salt? So this thread was a great help.
I just wanted to let you all know as well that our 4-H General Livestock Judging Team won the State Contest by 2 points and will be traveling to Louisville in November!!! I'm really excited and just thought I'd share that with you all!!!
 
Big Muddy rancher said:
Question for PC and Liveoak...how much can you change your soil above what your parent soil can support and can you afford to keep doing it? How much does the chemical content of the same forage on different soils change? Or does the forage species change with different soil types? How much does the chemical content of different species differ?
Click to expand...

BMR, your questions prompted me to do a little research and what I found pretty much supports the decision to continue to supplement my cattle with minerals, given the objective. Mineral content of a given forage changes throughout the year and also varies with the species. One such study I read indicated that even heavy rains can change the content of some minerals on some grasses. Another study indicted that the only you can insure adequate mineral intake is my administering a mineral bolus! Here's a study that was fairly interesting:

http://uwadmnweb.uwyo.edu/johnsonces/Johnson/Mineral_Report.pdf
 
Interesting study Liveoak, thanks for sharing.

Back to BMR's question, obviously the same alfalfa grown on 2 different fields will have variances in mineral content and nutrient value. That's where a refractometer/Brix meter is real handy. You can measure the "Brix" or sugar content, and see how nutritious it is. If a forage isn't high Brix, it isn't well balanced in minerals. You only get a high Brix/sugar reading when forages are healthy, and you only get that in healthy soils.

There are some factors to keep in mind though. Just b/c I get a low reading on alfalfa at one end of the field, doesn't mean the cattle are going downhill. There are a few other species they can select in the same paddock to get what they need. Like anything else, it's another tool in the box. I want to play around with planting some herbs in certain paddocks to see how the cattle graze them. Some herbs are highly nutritious, and others can be used in a sward to let the livestock self-medicate and get what they need. Chicory, burnet, dandelion, plantain and many others have healing qualities, or at the very least are highly nutritious.
 
Northern Rancher said:
If cattle eat it with relish I don't consider it a weed much to the chagrine of my plow jockey neighbors.
Click to expand...

Now we gotta give 'em mineral AND relish with their meals? :lol: :lol:


Sorry... couldn't help myself....
 
I told a cattle buyer that I usually shipmy calves when by how far above the neighbors wheat they stand. I said the SOB didn't fertilize one year and I shipped 50 pounds light.
 
It's a weed if it gets in my hay crop and reduces my yields, causing me to either sell down on cows or cover more acres to to get the feed I need for the winter.
 
A weed is something the cows will not eat. I have alot of golden rod and a few bull thistles if some one wants to add more diversity to their landscape. I should add posionous plants to the weeds also like wilted blach cherry tree leaves.
 
I don't look at anything as a weed - or at least I try really hard not to. Anything that the cows won't eat, pigs, goats or sheep will. My "Pig Tractor" right now is on a paddock that's full of all sorts of 'weeds'. The pigs clean everything off without any complaints.

It's really just a frame of mind thing. If someone wants to label something a weed, a flower, a herb, a bush, a tree, it's their right to call it whatever they want, and I won't argue. I may give my opinion, and that's it. :wink: Most turf managers wage personal vendettas against dandelions, yet they are a highly nutritious species of forage, with a large root that goes deep and can greatly improve soil conditions, especially in heavy traffic areas that have compaction issues.

This reminds me, one really nice benefit of loose mineral - being able to mix in grass/legume seed and have the cows do the broadcasting for you.

SILVER - to have something take over a hay crop to the point of having to cut cow numbers sounds a little extreme to me. Have you actually had that happen? One of the worst things around here for that is blue sage, although it's a lesson I had to learn the hard way, and I'm still trying to fix the problem. If you see sage coming in, you've been overgrazing/overworking your land with too many grazings/cuttings and not enough rest. JMO.
 
A few years back we seeded oats for swath grazing-it was underseeded with fall rye-we grazed the oat swaths in the fall and the rye in the spring.Then before it got worked down we got a good rain and the rye exploded so we baled it-grazed the aftermath that fall. The following spring it was a mat of pigweed and various other weedies, I grazed it and at 50cents per cow per day we got $93 worth of grazing per acre. I did the succession thing with it and it's now a multispecie grass paddock with some clovers.some patches of foxtail but bale grazing on them will kill allow other grasses to out compete it. Those darn old weeds have made me more money at times than some expensive-hard to establish tame super forages. I'm a total heretic I even graze quackgrass with no shame. It doesn't look any worse in this drought than the other grasses.
 
PureCountry said:
SILVER - to have something take over a hay crop to the point of having to cut cow numbers sounds a little extreme to me. Have you actually had that happen? One of the worst things around here for that is blue sage, although it's a lesson I had to learn the hard way, and I'm still trying to fix the problem. If you see sage coming in, you've been overgrazing/overworking your land with too many grazings/cuttings and not enough rest. JMO.
Click to expand...

Quack grass is invasive in hayfields here and if left alone for too long will greatly reduce hay yields. Around here it is one of the leading reasons for hayland rejuvenation. It can be quite productive for a few years before it becomes root bound making it sparse and wiry.
 
Aaaaahhhhhhh. Makes sense. I wonder if you could graze it hard every 3rd or 4th year, if that would keep it from getting that way? Do you think it would work? We don't really worry about such things b/c we don't put up hay. We're able to graze most winters, which obviously in your climate is a little tough unless you mounted a V-Plow on the front of each cow. :lol:
 
I have found newly purchased cattle will eat up to 10 times the recommended minerals so I will put out only one days supply for about a week or if they are not at the home site I will give both white and red salt blocks for about a week then put the loose mineral out and have great results. Other than this I only use blocks to regulate the loose mineral consumpson.

In this area I have 2 pastures I have to feed "fescue " mineral to or the cattle spend all day standing in the creek.

I have found most of the time the people who don't feed minerals are the same ones who don't mow pastures, spray for flys, worm, vacinate. If they make money it is in spite of themselves. I could raise corn without fertilizer, herbisides, insectisides, etc. But that would not go far in paying for ground, feeding my family and expanding.

I don't go for the highest yield on my corn I go for the highest return on my investment. I typically have among the highest yields in the area but not the top as I'm going for top profit!

The same with cattle I could just turn them loose and I would have calves to sell each year but I want the most pounds to sell with the largest return on my investment. Minerals are just a small part of the overall program but they are an important part!

Now each will have to decide how much or little involvment they are to have.
 
George said:
I have found newly purchased cattle will eat up to 10 times the recommended minerals so I will put out only one days supply for about a week or if they are not at the home site I will give both white and red salt blocks for about a week then put the loose mineral out and have great results. Other than this I only use blocks to regulate the loose mineral consumpson.

In this area I have 2 pastures I have to feed "fescue " mineral to or the cattle spend all day standing in the creek.

I have found most of the time the people who don't feed minerals are the same ones who don't mow pastures, spray for flys, worm, vacinate. If they make money it is in spite of themselves. I could raise corn without fertilizer, herbisides, insectisides, etc. But that would not go far in paying for ground, feeding my family and expanding.

I don't go for the highest yield on my corn I go for the highest return on my investment. I typically have among the highest yields in the area but not the top as I'm going for top profit!

The same with cattle I could just turn them loose and I would have calves to sell each year but I want the most pounds to sell with the largest return on my investment. Minerals are just a small part of the overall program but they are an important part!

Now each will have to decide how much or little involvment they are to have.
Click to expand...
George, just because some of us don't do all the practices recommended by the input suppliers and the PhDs that do their studies, doesn't mean we starve our cattle. :wink:
 
Don't want to start another war but I never mentioned starving.

Your cattle might be in waist high green grass but that does not mean their every need is being met.

I can raise 100 bushel corn that looks very good but I need to ad micro nutrebtients ( copper and sulfur in this area ) at a very small cost and we are raising 200 bu corn. Today I can get $3.00 per bushel and if it cost me $5.00 per acre for micro nutrients I feel it pays. I don't throw money away just to get a high yield.

Same with my cattle. I take care of them but they will probably never be the biggest in the county but I try to make them the most proffitable. Minerals pay here! I try to keep good records as I can't justify making a decision baised on my gut feeling. I seperated the Angus from the Charolis cows for winter feeding and found it takes 40% more feed to keep the Charolis - - - even though they are very beautiful they have been cut from 80% of the herd to about 10% now. I also weigh calves seperately and found most of the time the Angus calves are just as big at weening as the Charolis. The Angus cows always look thinner but I feel it is because they are working harder to produce a higher percentage of body weight in milk.

Try deviding your herd and treat them all the same except for the thing you are testing for and you might not feel minerals are making you money and if that is the case don't feed mineral! But if you don't test yourself or follow independent test ( not from the feed company ) that you can trust you will never know.

If you feel you are making all the money you can or all the money you want then just follow through as always. But remember if you just keep doing what you have always done don't be suprised you get what you always have.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top