NCBA membership number up. How can that be?

[mrj]

Poor, narrowminded Sandhusker and pals!

First, you apparently do not understand the concept of looking at the facts and seeing what the DOJ is going to do before making a decision on whether a deal is good or bad for cattle producers. AT THIS POINT, I believe NCBA is not against the deal. If a majority of our members see that it is not good for us, the organization doubtless will stand against it. Not before we know the facts,.......unlike some other groups!

You surely know those states attorneys are lining up against this because of political considerations, more than any other reason, IMO.

When a financially ailing facility, whose owners want OUT of the business, sells to a financially sound company, why is that a bad thing for US cattle producers?

There is also the fact that there are hundreds of various sized packers across the nation, not JUST the top packers.

mrj

 

[Sandhusker]

What facts are you waiting for?

 

[RobertMac]

Here is a question for you mrj...

Why doesn't JBS come to the USA and build new plants to compete with the other packers?

That would be adding ANOTHER player that would be good for the marketplace!

 

[Reader]

It couldn't possibly have had anything to do with the John Deere program NCBA ran.

If you joined NCBA, you could get up to $1000 discounts on John Deere equipment, such as lawn mowers and gators.

Yes thats it. Join a group you dont agree with to save a few bucks. You must have no respect for cattlemen.

 

[Reader]

What's NCBA's position on the JBS deal?

Have you ever been to an NCBA convention? Have you seen the debates that go on between cattlemen? If no then you really shoud,

 

[Sandhusker]

What's NCBA's position on the JBS deal?

Have you ever been to an NCBA convention? Have you seen the debates that go on between cattlemen? If no then you really shoud,

You just addressed that question how?

 

[Sandhusker]

I noticed some of you on here who are NCBA bashers point to anything negative about them. But I noticed none of you posted where NCBA membership numbers are up as well as $ from membership. Whats up with that? How do some of you explain that?

It's the same phenomena with Obama - people drinking the koolaid without doing any research of their own.

You should take the time to travel to NCBA's convention in Phoenix starting Jan 28. You'd find 6K cattlemen and cattlewomen working to solve issues and create opportunities. The state of Neb usually has one of the top 5 traveling groups. There's a Neb caucas meeting, which you'd be welcome to attend. Many of the best and brightest minds Neb has to offer the beef industry would be in the room. Might be kinda fun to hang out with a "glass is half full" crowd for awhile.

I have no doubt that there are some good people in NCBA. However, it appears to me that the underlying guiding philosophy with your group is "Whatever is good for the multi-national packers will trickle down and be good for us". I think that is both naive and suicidal. It's a proven failed policy as evidenced by the lack of competition and dwindling share of the beef dollar that producers are seeing now.

You see it as the "glass is half full" crowd, while I draw the comparison to Lord Chamberlain of Britain who, after meeting with Hitler declared, "Peace in our time". He was hoodwinked and I think NCBA is also.

 

[Reader]

It's the same phenomena with Obama - people drinking the koolaid without doing any research of their own.

You should take the time to travel to NCBA's convention in Phoenix starting Jan 28. You'd find 6K cattlemen and cattlewomen working to solve issues and create opportunities. The state of Neb usually has one of the top 5 traveling groups. There's a Neb caucas meeting, which you'd be welcome to attend. Many of the best and brightest minds Neb has to offer the beef industry would be in the room. Might be kinda fun to hang out with a "glass is half full" crowd for awhile.

I have no doubt that there are some good people in NCBA. However, it appears to me that the underlying guiding philosophy with your group is "Whatever is good for the multi-national packers will trickle down and be good for us". I think that is both naive and suicidal. It's a proven failed policy as evidenced by the lack of competition and dwindling share of the beef dollar that producers are seeing now.

You see it as the "glass is half full" crowd, while I draw the comparison to Lord Chamberlain of Britain who, after meeting with Hitler declared, "Peace in our time". He was hoodwinked and I think NCBA is also.

You have never been, yet you will make a decision. You owe yourself a trip to see and make sure. I think you would be surprised. There is a lot more debate amongst cattlemen than you may think.

 

[Sandhusker]

Why does the policies always seem to favor the packers at the expense of cattlemen?

I'm not commenting on what happens there, I'm commenting on positions the group takes.

 

[Reader]

Why does the policies always seem to favor the packers at the expense of cattlemen?

I'm not commenting on what happens there, I'm commenting on positions the group takes.

I have been and I can tell you that I have not met a packer. Several from feedlots but not packers. I would say that feeders run NCBA more than packers. But to answer your question I would tend to think that the goal of those I have met are more about getting people to eat more beef.

 

[Reader]

Why does the policies always seem to favor the packers at the expense of cattlemen?

I'm not commenting on what happens there, I'm commenting on positions the group takes.

I'll say this before I turn in. I dont agree with all of NCBA policy nor do I agree with my family and friends one hundred percent. But I have seen cowboys making decisions. Yes feeders have too many votes. But if the cowboys would agree they could outvote the feeders. I guess we are to darn independant. But I do think you owe it to yourself to attend at least one.

 

[Sandhusker]

Why does the policies always seem to favor the packers at the expense of cattlemen?

I'm not commenting on what happens there, I'm commenting on positions the group takes.

I have been and I can tell you that I have not met a packer. Several from feedlots but not packers. I would say that feeders run NCBA more than packers. But to answer your question I would tend to think that the goal of those I have met are more about getting people to eat more beef.

I think you just proved my packer-backer analysis correct. The focus should be producer profitablity, not beef consumption. Beef consumption always helps the packers because they handle all of it. If people are eating beef every day, but that beef is foreign sourced or priced too low while it is still on the hoof, what good does it do us?

 

[RobertMac]

Why does the policies always seem to favor the packers at the expense of cattlemen?

I'm not commenting on what happens there, I'm commenting on positions the group takes.

I have been and I can tell you that I have not met a packer. Several from feedlots but not packers. I would say that feeders run NCBA more than packers. But to answer your question I would tend to think that the goal of those I have met are more about getting people to eat more beef.

Testing for BSE for the Japan/Asian market would be "getting people to eat more beef".

Stopping the use of antibiotics and added hormones would be "getting people to eat more beef".

Not promoting these favors who?

Producers have to remember that there will always be antagonism between raw product producers and the processing/wholesale segment. The feeder/packer segment is integrated and concentrated with the goal of buying raw product as cheap as possible to improve their margin. Packers can only push consumer prices so far until limited by competing meats. Packers can more readily push cattle prices down by increasing supply. "Getting people to eat more beef" will keep the supply/demand equation in favor of producers.

The best way for cattlemen to ensure profitability is to bridge packers...be cattle producers and sellers of beef from their cattle.

 

[Sandhusker]

""Getting people to eat more beef" will keep the supply/demand equation in favor of producers. "

I think you meant "packers"?

 

[RobertMac]

"Getting people to eat more beef" increases demand...increased demand changes the balance with supply...that will increase the price of supply until supply increases to bring back the balance with demand. IMO, the reason we have had high cattle prices for so long is that BSE has overshadowed the industry...no new money willing to take the risk of getting into cattle production and producers reluctant to expand...supply holding constant. Without the ready supply there, "getting people to eat more beef" would increase the price of raw product(live cattle) and hurt packer margins (retail beef prices hitting the wall they have made with cheap poultry and pork). Access to South American beef would change the supply side in packer's favor.

 

[Beefman]

Why does the policies always seem to favor the packers at the expense of cattlemen?

I'm not commenting on what happens there, I'm commenting on positions the group takes.

I have been and I can tell you that I have not met a packer. Several from feedlots but not packers. I would say that feeders run NCBA more than packers. But to answer your question I would tend to think that the goal of those I have met are more about getting people to eat more beef.

I think you just proved my packer-backer analysis correct. The focus should be producer profitablity, not beef consumption. Beef consumption always helps the packers because they handle all of it. If people are eating beef every day, but that beef is foreign sourced or priced too low while it is still on the hoof, what good does it do us?

If you'd make out a list of who you consider to be the 50 most influencial beef producers in your state, representing all segments of the beef industry, you'd find most of those people at the NCBA convention. These are all people who realize that yes, they are in the beef industry, and yes, if the world stopped eating beef tomorrow, they, like you, are finished.

You seem to see a packer label on every black helicopter and boogey man hiding around the corner. Look again. There's lots of people out there with twisted minds that have an objective to put you out of business. Don't think the packer is one of them. Did you see Prop 2 pass by nearly 70% in Calif on Tues? Think those people are going away? What're you going to do when their bus starts rolling into Cherry County?

This convention, as the others have been, will be a gathering place to develop strategies on how to PROFITABLY improve our consumer offerings, dealing with the political sector and all that baggage, (good and bad), and networking.

 

[Sandhusker]

Look at the relationship that producers have with packers, Beefman. Right now, we need them and they need us. However, they are doing all they can to change the relationship to where we are still dependent on them, but we are only an option for them. They don't want to have to buy our cattle, they want to have the option to buy our cattle only if it is cheaper for them to do so than buying it from some other country. How do I know this? Look at their positions on opening up free trade deals with beef producing nations. They want at other country's beef so they can buy it instead of ours. They are fighting COOL with everything they've got because that throws a huge wrench in that plan. They will not be able to force you to compete on price globally, which US producers can not do. What kind of "Partner in Industry" is that who is working the back door trying to undermine you so they can have all the goodies? With friends like that.....

Then look at the methods that they've used to promote their agenda? They've bold faced LIED on proposed legislation, and they've got PSA rewritten to the point that it isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Again, with friends and partners like that....

 

[mrj]

Reader, thanks for taking the time to attempt some common sense discussion with Sandhusker and other anti-NCBA guys on this site.

It is so frustrating for me to read their arguments, especially as on pages 3 and 4 here.....and not have the knowledge to refute them with points they cannot get around or deny.

BTW, we have seen several packers at the conventions. They don't seem to get particularly upset when the get outvoted in committees or on the floor, tho. And we do appreciate that the NCBA goal seems to be to get the various segments of the beef industry working together where we can and attempting to understand others' point of view on issues we can't work together on.

Thanks for making your points on ranchers.net.

Maxine & Shorty Jones, Midland, SD

 

[Beefman]

Look at the relationship that producers have with packers, Beefman. Right now, we need them and they need us. However, they are doing all they can to change the relationship to where we are still dependent on them, but we are only an option for them. They don't want to have to buy our cattle, they want to have the option to buy our cattle only if it is cheaper for them to do so than buying it from some other country. How do I know this? Look at their positions on opening up free trade deals with beef producing nations. They want at other country's beef so they can buy it instead of ours. They are fighting COOL with everything they've got because that throws a huge wrench in that plan. They will not be able to force you to compete on price globally, which US producers can not do. What kind of "Partner in Industry" is that who is working the back door trying to undermine you so they can have all the goodies? With friends like that.....

Then look at the methods that they've used to promote their agenda? They've bold faced LIED on proposed legislation, and they've got PSA rewritten to the point that it isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Again, with friends and partners like that....

I recently reviewed a magazine that listed the world's most valuable brands. In order, from 1-5, they are Coke, IBM, Microsoft, GE and McDonalds. Just for kicks, I Googled "Coke screwed me, IBM screwed me, etc. With Coke, you get 765K hits. IBM – 362K. Microsoft – 1.56M. GE – 167K, and 529K hits for "McDonalds screwed me". For more fun, type in "Walmart screwed me" and you get 894K hits. In total, 3.9M hits of "X company screwed me". Not that all these hits are business trade related, however there's obviously suppliers for every one of these top 6 businesses that could claim they got hosed due to imports, free trade deals, COOL type arguments, pricing and overall discrimination.

However, every one of these businesses has suppliers that have great business relationships with them. I'll also suggest that the top 50 group of Neb producers I referenced earlier…..build great mutually beneficial relationships with their suppliers. Come to convention so you can see where they get their ideas.

Not sure what you're referencing regarding "bold faced lies" on proposed legislation.

 

[Sandhusker]

Reader, thanks for taking the time to attempt some common sense discussion with Sandhusker and other anti-NCBA guys on this site.

It is so frustrating for me to read their arguments, especially as on pages 3 and 4 here.....and not have the knowledge to refute them with points they cannot get around or deny.

Sandhusker has to know ranchers in his area who are NCBA members and he still spits in their eye, so to speak, even tho they may even be customers of the bank he works for.......or owns! That seems the only logical reason he could hold that job if they do have NCBA members in the area! We met him at a meeting where Andy Gottschalk was a speaker a few years ago. Not impressed! And we are not picky about new acquaintances, either.

BTW, we have seen several packers at the conventions. They don't seem to get particularly upset when the get outvoted in committees or on the floor, tho. And we do appreciate that the NCBA goal seems to be to get the various segments of the beef industry working together where we can and attempting to understand others' point of view on issues we can't work together on.

Thanks for making your points on ranchers.net.

Maxine & Shorty Jones, Midland, SD

So what was your opinion of me at the meeting? Go ahead and be honest and specific.