NCBA membership number up. How can that be?

[Sandhusker]

Look at the relationship that producers have with packers, Beefman. Right now, we need them and they need us. However, they are doing all they can to change the relationship to where we are still dependent on them, but we are only an option for them. They don't want to have to buy our cattle, they want to have the option to buy our cattle only if it is cheaper for them to do so than buying it from some other country. How do I know this? Look at their positions on opening up free trade deals with beef producing nations. They want at other country's beef so they can buy it instead of ours. They are fighting COOL with everything they've got because that throws a huge wrench in that plan. They will not be able to force you to compete on price globally, which US producers can not do. What kind of "Partner in Industry" is that who is working the back door trying to undermine you so they can have all the goodies? With friends like that.....

Then look at the methods that they've used to promote their agenda? They've bold faced LIED on proposed legislation, and they've got PSA rewritten to the point that it isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Again, with friends and partners like that....

I recently reviewed a magazine that listed the world's most valuable brands. In order, from 1-5, they are Coke, IBM, Microsoft, GE and McDonalds. Just for kicks, I Googled "Coke screwed me, IBM screwed me, etc. With Coke, you get 765K hits. IBM – 362K. Microsoft – 1.56M. GE – 167K, and 529K hits for "McDonalds screwed me". For more fun, type in "Walmart screwed me" and you get 894K hits. In total, 3.9M hits of "X company screwed me". Not that all these hits are business trade related, however there's obviously suppliers for every one of these top 6 businesses that could claim they got hosed due to imports, free trade deals, COOL type arguments, pricing and overall discrimination.

However, every one of these businesses has suppliers that have great business relationships with them. I'll also suggest that the top 50 group of Neb producers I referenced earlier…..build great mutually beneficial relationships with their suppliers. Come to convention so you can see where they get their ideas.

Not sure what you're referencing regarding "bold faced lies" on proposed legislation.

I notice that you didn't refute any of my points.

Manufacturers are always going to be looking to keep their costs down and that includes inputs from their suppliers - that is a given in the business world. Since you mentioned Coke first, take a look at their suppliers. If you were supplying aluminum cans for Coke and they decided they could get cans cheaper from Brazil, you just lost a good contract but there's thousands of other people who are potential customers for your product. The US aluminum can industry will take notice and there will likely be some small impact on everyone. Now, what if Tyson's free trade and anti-COOL efforts are rewarded (with NCBA's blessings) and they can get all the Brazilian beef up here that they want? You tell me what will happen to cattle prices up here, and then try to tell me that Tyson is not trying to do exactly what I just laid out.

The first bold faced lie that I can recall was regarding the competition title in the farm bill. I went around and around with MRJ on that one, even posting for her the exact proposal straight from the government's website. She never could defend the AMI/NCBA's statement on what was in that legislation. I'd be happy to resurrect that thread if anybody would care to try again.

 

[mrj]

My apology to you, SAndhusker. I made the stupid mistake of venting on a reply, intending to edit before sending it and hit the submit button instead of the preview one. Didn't realize it right away. Sorry for the mean spirited comment being on here.

My opinion of you at the meeting was simply that. That you were not asimpressive as bankers and other businessmen I've met at similar meetings before and after that one. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's true. You didn't seem as up on current ag biz as some others I've met across SD. Or, to be fair, I don't recall specific comments you made. Your comments on this site re. ag and business have not changed that impression.

BTW, re. your comments to Beefman about the NCBA position on the Competition Title in the Farm Bill: I believe I was quite clear my statements were my own thoughts and did not necessarily reflect NCBA policy, nor come from that organization alone. You beat that horse to death long ago.

mrj

 

[Sandhusker]

My apology to you, SAndhusker. I made the stupid mistake of venting on a reply, intending to edit before sending it and hit the submit button instead of the preview one. Didn't realize it right away. Sorry for the mean spirited comment being on here.

My opinion of you at the meeting was simply that. That you were not asimpressive as bankers and other businessmen I've met at similar meetings before and after that one. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's true. You didn't seem as up on current ag biz as some others I've met across SD. Or, to be fair, I don't recall specific comments you made. Your comments on this site re. ag and business have not changed that impression.

BTW, re. your comments to Beefman about the NCBA position on the Competition Title in the Farm Bill: I believe I was quite clear my statements were my own thoughts and did not necessarily reflect NCBA policy, nor come from that organization alone. You beat that horse to death long ago.

mrj

The reason that I wasn't all that impressive or that you can't recall any comments that I made is because I wasn't at that meeting. You've never met me.

The go we had on the competition title had nothing to do with your opinion. It was about what NCBA claimed the legislation said and what it actually did - they were vastly different.

 

[Reader]

Why does the policies always seem to favor the packers at the expense of cattlemen?

I'm not commenting on what happens there, I'm commenting on positions the group takes.

I have been and I can tell you that I have not met a packer. Several from feedlots but not packers. I would say that feeders run NCBA more than packers. But to answer your question I would tend to think that the goal of those I have met are more about getting people to eat more beef.

I think you just proved my packer-backer analysis correct. The focus should be producer profitablity, not beef consumption. Beef consumption always helps the packers because they handle all of it. If people are eating beef every day, but that beef is foreign sourced or priced too low while it is still on the hoof, what good does it do us?

The amount of imported beef is small in comparison to US beef. The more beef that is consumed the tighter the supplies. Surely you have seen cattle cycles etc that prove that. Are the packers our friends? No but they are not the enemy either. They want to buy as cheap as possible and we want to sell as high as possible.

 

[Sandhusker]

Reader, "The amount of imported beef is small in comparison to US beef."

Yes, that is true TODAY. But what about TOMORROW? Do you fix fence before you turn in or after? Do you bring the cows in before the storm, or after?

The powers that be are doing all they can to enable NCBA's "partners in industry" to bring in all the foreign beef they can and then sell it to US consumers under the USDA label and no other. Do you deny this?

 

[Beefman]

Look at the relationship that producers have with packers, Beefman. Right now, we need them and they need us. However, they are doing all they can to change the relationship to where we are still dependent on them, but we are only an option for them. They don't want to have to buy our cattle, they want to have the option to buy our cattle only if it is cheaper for them to do so than buying it from some other country. How do I know this? Look at their positions on opening up free trade deals with beef producing nations. They want at other country's beef so they can buy it instead of ours. They are fighting COOL with everything they've got because that throws a huge wrench in that plan. They will not be able to force you to compete on price globally, which US producers can not do. What kind of "Partner in Industry" is that who is working the back door trying to undermine you so they can have all the goodies? With friends like that.....

Then look at the methods that they've used to promote their agenda? They've bold faced LIED on proposed legislation, and they've got PSA rewritten to the point that it isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Again, with friends and partners like that....

I recently reviewed a magazine that listed the world's most valuable brands. In order, from 1-5, they are Coke, IBM, Microsoft, GE and McDonalds. Just for kicks, I Googled "Coke screwed me, IBM screwed me, etc. With Coke, you get 765K hits. IBM – 362K. Microsoft – 1.56M. GE – 167K, and 529K hits for "McDonalds screwed me". For more fun, type in "Walmart screwed me" and you get 894K hits. In total, 3.9M hits of "X company screwed me". Not that all these hits are business trade related, however there's obviously suppliers for every one of these top 6 businesses that could claim they got hosed due to imports, free trade deals, COOL type arguments, pricing and overall discrimination.

However, every one of these businesses has suppliers that have great business relationships with them. I'll also suggest that the top 50 group of Neb producers I referenced earlier…..build great mutually beneficial relationships with their suppliers. Come to convention so you can see where they get their ideas.

Not sure what you're referencing regarding "bold faced lies" on proposed legislation.

I notice that you didn't refute any of my points.

Manufacturers are always going to be looking to keep their costs down and that includes inputs from their suppliers - that is a given in the business world. Since you mentioned Coke first, take a look at their suppliers. If you were supplying aluminum cans for Coke and they decided they could get cans cheaper from Brazil, you just lost a good contract but there's thousands of other people who are potential customers for your product. The US aluminum can industry will take notice and there will likely be some small impact on everyone. Now, what if Tyson's free trade and anti-COOL efforts are rewarded (with NCBA's blessings) and they can get all the Brazilian beef up here that they want? You tell me what will happen to cattle prices up here, and then try to tell me that Tyson is not trying to do exactly what I just laid out.

The first bold faced lie that I can recall was regarding the competition title in the farm bill. I went around and around with MRJ on that one, even posting for her the exact proposal straight from the government's website. She never could defend the AMI/NCBA's statement on what was in that legislation. I'd be happy to resurrect that thread if anybody would care to try again.

What's there to refute? You've already heard anything I'd say. Trade is a two way pipeline. We've traded dams, sires, embreyos, semen for over 100 years at profitable levels. Ditto for live cattle and beef products. Also, if Tyson is capable of doing the things you're suggesting is happening now, the track record on their stock price makes you wonder how successful they've been at it. Bringing in more Brazilian beef?????? Why? Turning a sows ear into a silk purse isn't something they or anyone else is capable of doing, ie, check the quality of their beef vs ours.

This is further confirmation you need to attend an NCBA meeting and expose yourself to facts on exports. NCBA has a great International Marketing Committee. Not that long ago, the committee was chaired by Lindy Whipps, a great Neb cow calf producer.

 

[RobertMac]

The amount of imported beef is small in comparison to US beef.

True, but it has been increasing...why?

The more beef that is consumed the tighter the supplies. Surely you have seen cattle cycles etc that prove that.

True, but the opposite is also true and proven by the cattle cycle. When supply exceeds consumption, the price of cattle goes down. When a global packer can intentionally increase supply by unfettered importation of beef and cattle, they have the ability to manipulate the USA price of live cattle.

Are the packers our friends? No but they are not the enemy either. They want to buy as cheap as possible and we want to sell as high as possible.

My packer is my friend. (Told me recently that it was direct marketers like me that saved his business and allowed him to find a potential buyer that will continue to service direct marketers...with a USDA label )
Beef only USA packers have the same investment in a healthy USA beef market that producers have. Multi-protein, global packers don't have the same investment...their main focus is to most efficiently service the available market. Expanding the beef market (Getting people to eat more beef) can come with repercussions for them if that expansion comes at the expense of pork and poultry...which, as SH says, is the competition for beef producers.

Small and medium packers can do quite well, if all they do is process cattle. Producers can do quite well, if we produce cattle and sell beef!!!!

 

[RobertMac]

Bringing in more Brazilian beef?????? Why? Turning a sows ear into a silk purse isn't something they or anyone else is capable of doing, ie, check the quality of their beef vs ours.

If you are an example of NCBA's education, it is surely lacking!!!

Every heard the phrase...so goes ground beef, so goes the beef market????

Please tell me the quality issues of ground beef.

McDonalds is our largest beef customer...lose them and you tell me what happens to the beef market!!!!!

 

[Reader]

Reader, "The amount of imported beef is small in comparison to US beef."

Yes, that is true TODAY. But what about TOMORROW? Do you fix fence before you turn in or after? Do you bring the cows in before the storm, or after?

The powers that be are doing all they can to enable NCBA's "partners in industry" to bring in all the foreign beef they can and then sell it to US consumers under the USDA label and no other. Do you deny this?

If you are saying that NCBA is working ot increase the amount of imported beef then I do deny it. Like I said, I have seen it myself with MY eyes not being told. I have seen cowboys setting policy. Guys just like you discussing the issues in the hallway, hotel bar, the cafe's or where ever they are gathered during the convention. There is no conspiracy with NCBA, the packers and USDA. In fact I will tell you that feeders have more influence at NCBA than packers ever dreamed of. But in the end if the Cowboys would agree more we could out vote any and all others.

 

[Sandhusker]

When has NCBA said anything about imports (that made any sense)? The company line that I always here from them is "You have to give access to get access." That sounds good until one does a post mortem on us giving access and you find that it's generally a one-way deal. Why is NCBA so quick to endorse these Free Trade deals with exporting nations that can only result in a negetive trade balance in beef?

I don't believe there is a conspiracy. It's not that complicated, it doesn't have to be. The AMI has not conspired, they've just "donated", "contributed" and the USDA is simply doing what they have been paid to do. That's the way this whole government works. But then here comes NCBA rubberstamping virtually everything the packers want because of the belief that "ttese guys are our partners and their good fortune will just trickle down to us." It doesn't happen that way.

 

[RobertMac]

In fact I will tell you that feeders have more influence at NCBA than packers ever dreamed of.

Aren't the feeder and packer segments consolidating? Maybe for the reason you state?

Tyson grew to be the world's largest poultry processor by implementing vertical integration...controlling all important aspects of their product from the egg to the package going into the store.
Tyson bought IBP, the world's largest beef processor, with profits from their poultry production model.
Why would Tyson not try to implement this same model, as much as feasible, into the beef industry?

 

[Beefman]

Bringing in more Brazilian beef?????? Why? Turning a sows ear into a silk purse isn't something they or anyone else is capable of doing, ie, check the quality of their beef vs ours.

If you are an example of NCBA's education, it is surely lacking!!!

Every heard the phrase...so goes ground beef, so goes the beef market????

Please tell me the quality issues of ground beef.

McDonalds is our largest beef customer...lose them and you tell me what happens to the beef market!!!!!

Importing trimmings to mix with our 50/50 isn't a bad thing. We can sell product that previously went to grind in the form of value added cuts.

Sandhusker was indicating.........."Tyson's free trade and anti-COOL efforts are rewarded (with NCBA's blessings) and they can get all the Brazilian beef up here that they want? You tell me what will happen to cattle prices up here, and then try to tell me that Tyson is not trying to do exactly what I just laid out..........

An increase in imported lean trim would indicate demand for ground beef has increased. What's wrong with that? Brazilian whole muscle cuts won't be replacing ours anytime soon. (ie, the comment on turning a sows ear into a silk purse).

 

[RobertMac]

Bringing in more Brazilian beef?????? Why? Turning a sows ear into a silk purse isn't something they or anyone else is capable of doing, ie, check the quality of their beef vs ours.

If you are an example of NCBA's education, it is surely lacking!!!

Every heard the phrase...so goes ground beef, so goes the beef market????

Please tell me the quality issues of ground beef.

McDonalds is our largest beef customer...lose them and you tell me what happens to the beef market!!!!!

Importing trimmings to mix with our 50/50 isn't a bad thing. We can sell product that previously went to grind in the form of value added cuts.

Sandhusker was indicating.........."Tyson's free trade and anti-COOL efforts are rewarded (with NCBA's blessings) and they can get all the Brazilian beef up here that they want? You tell me what will happen to cattle prices up here, and then try to tell me that Tyson is not trying to do exactly what I just laid out..........

An increase in imported lean trim would indicate demand for ground beef has increased. What's wrong with that? Brazilian whole muscle cuts won't be replacing ours anytime soon. (ie, the comment on turning a sows ear into a silk purse).

If Tyson can import S.A. beef, do you think they will stop with a few trimmings?
Do you not think that S.A. beef can compete with Wal-Mart beef on a quality basis now?
U.S. packers are building feedlots in S.A. now. They could soon have the quality to compete for the H&R market.
You had better wake up from this quality myth!!!