New Creekstone Proposal

[Tam]

Tim, I've never bragged about the USDA's testing. In fact, I've been very critical.

Yep, your testing found the cow. That's not the point. The point is that if your feed ban was the caliber Tam seems to think it is, that cow wouldn't of had BSE.

Well since you have been so critical of USDA's testing, would it be fair to say that, in all probability, their(USDA's) testing has missed some cases of BSE in native cattle??
Where exactly, do you suppose the Texas cow contracted BSE from?? If you are a follower of the feed THEORY, do you actually want to suggest that she was the 1 in 35 million cows that ate "infected" feed??
And in addition, I do not know of ANY beef cow/calf producers who have EVER used any type of protein suplement in young calves which,according the popular belief, seems to be when cattle are prone to infection. My calves nurse their mothers,period. No purchased protein.Ever. I'm sure this is also true for 99.9% of the other producers on this site.
Why not just admit the obvious Sandhusker.As an R-calf member you will gladly use BSE as an excuse for trade sanctions and to hell with the ramifications. At least I could semi-respect a little honesty. This worm-like spin, that R-calf is so adept at, is getting old. :roll:

I wouldn't say it is probably the USDA has missed some cases, but I sure would not bet against it. However, my topic was on your feed ban. You don't like to talk about that, do you?

Why don't you admit the obvious, Tim. You want your beef to come to the US, and to hell with any ramifications. Just poo-poo the facts that feed bans have been very effective in reducing BSE. Just poo-poo the fact that you're finding post-ban cattle up there. Try to redirect a little blame on R-CALF just because we want the USDA to stick to the policy that they testified to Congress was needed to combat BSE -the very same policy that was changed only for the Canada trade. I suppose after losing your packing industry up there, you're accustomed to being sold out. We're not.

R-CALF sold out your packing plants for short term higher cattle prices so don't bitch about market concentration. You only have R-CALF to thank for it.

 

[TimH]

Sandhusker Wrote..

I wouldn't say it is probably the USDA has missed some cases, but I sure would not bet against it. However, my topic was on your feed ban. You don't like to talk about that, do you?

Why don't you admit the obvious, Tim. You want your beef to come to the US, and to hell with any ramifications. Just poo-poo the facts that feed bans have been very effective in reducing BSE. Just poo-poo the fact that you're finding post-ban cattle up there. Try to redirect a little blame on R-CALF just because we want the USDA to stick to the policy that they testified to Congress was needed to combat BSE -the very same policy that was changed only for the Canada trade. I suppose after losing your packing industry up there, you're accustomed to being sold out. We're not.

On the contrary my Dear Sandusker, I would love to talk about feed bans. Especially in the context of plate waste,chicken litter and compliance. You want to go there Randy?? I didn't think so.
I produce beef. I look for markets for my product. This is called business. The US is a market and I want to sell into that market. What is wrong with that Mr.Free Enterprise??? Are you against free enterprise?? What ramifications??
You are not used to being "sold out"??? Ha ha ha !!! :lol: This coming from "Mr. DOOM and Gloom, Tyson and the multinationals own everything and we are screwed ,guy!!!" :lol: :lol:
Truly HILARIOUS!!!! :lol: :lol:
I'm seriously thinking about approaching your bank in order to obtain financing for an idea I have to supply ice cubes into the January market in Fairbanks, Alaska. Sounds good , Don't it ???

 

[Anonymous]

Prove to who Tam? Remember if we quit taking all that PROVEN tainted Canadian beef- we have no need to export- our consumers can eat what we produce....Japs don't buy anything the USDA says anyways- but like I say we don't need them either if you weren't riding our shirttail....

OH thats right- You need us- We are one of the only countries that take Canadian beef :wink: :lol:

Too bad R-CALF wasn't allowed to go to trial- they had evidence backing much of what tester was saying about the tainted feed still being fed in Canada....But nobody in Canada wanted to see that.....Many like you, have that Ostrich syndrome :wink: :lol:

But the way it is now if people start dying from the human form of BSE 10 years from now the US government can just blame the Canadians.... :???:

 

[bse-tester]

TimH wrote:

Ha, ha ha!!! I "need to rethink the facts"???? Pretty much says it all. Facts are facts.Period. Nothing to rethink. You don't know sh!t from tar and are simply a snake oil salesman.End of story.
Is "Bio-Tech Global" comprised of a group of researchers from the Scripps Institute???

I guess your attitude never will change. If you don't understand something, you do what you have trained yourself to do and that is to put it down and slam it as being something other than what it is. Think what you will. Biotec Global is based out of Newcastle England. it is run by a man named Ken Bell and he has never had anything to do with Scripps. If you are so well informed in these matters, you will know this. But then, I suspect you actually know very little about anything, but then, that is just my opinion that is based upon your stupid response. So, in a nutshell, you can blow it out of your butt and keep you statements like sh!t and tar and snake oil to yourself as I have zero interest in discussing important issues with the likes of you. So please, aim you rhetoric at someone who give a sh!t - to use your own language!! At least I know you might understand that!

 

[bse-tester]

Tam wrote:

And This still doesn't answer my question If Japan is using your test then why did they say the testing that they have been doing showed nothing in animals under 20 months and therefore they were dropping their 100% testing protocol for protocol that excluded the 20 month and under catagory of cattle?

Well gee wiz Tam, maybe it is because the animals under 20 months were not harboring any PrPsc to be detected in the first place - have you even considered that as an answer??? Perhaps not huh??

As for their decision to stop the testing, perhaps that might have been as a result of the delegations of US officials that went to Japan to try to negotiate a deal. Or was it the fact that two delegations came to North America from Japan to observe first hand the scrutiny that both the Canadian and US have in place - the same scrutiny that you continue to applaud - to ensure that the beef industry is indeed living up to the standards placed upon them by the European authorities in Paris, you know, the ones that you feel can do no wrong? Perhaps that may have swayed the Japanese to ease their position. Did you ever consider that???

 

[bse-tester]

Still did not answer a simple question batman!!

Hell Tim, if you found a dirty plate under your next meal or lipstick on the coffee cup at the restaurant next time you go out for supper, you would scream to high heaven, so why should the consumer not demand safe and healthy products from producers? Especially if the cost of testing was so low that it made perfect sense to test??

Do you think you can answer this question - honestly - withoutinsults and rhetoric?

 

[Tam]

Prove to who Tam? Remember if we quit taking all that PROVEN tainted Canadian beef- we have no need to export- our consumers can eat what we produce....Japs don't buy anything the USDA says anyways- but like I say we don't need them either if you weren't riding our shirttail....

Gee Oldtimer what is going to protect the US consumer from YOUR BEEF or did you forget Phyllis found BSE IN THE US NATIVE HERD? Just maybe you should start proving something to your domestic consumers, if you plan on risking their lives with YOUR TAINTED BEEF. :roll:

OH thats right- You need us- We are one of the only countries that take Canadian beef :wink: :lol:

Gee I thought Japan was taking our beef right along with about 50 other countries, are they taking yours Oldtimer I think NOT. :roll:

Too bad R-CALF wasn't allowed to go to trial- they had evidence backing much of what tester was saying about the tainted feed still being fed in Canada....But nobody in Canada wanted to see that.....Many like you, have that Ostrich syndrome :wink: :lol:

This coming from a guy that thinks the US has the right to have the same safeguards as Canada has had for years. Who has the safer system if you want to mimic us Oldtimer. and Who has the Ostrich symdrome when it comes to proving what kind of problem you have. I ask again have you turned over any 4D cattle Oldtimer or is the USDA to get them from the packing plants like they have all along?

But the way it is now if people start dying from the human form of BSE 10 years from now the US government can just blame the Canadians.... :???:

There's that Ostrich symdrome you were talking about OLDTIMER :shock: how will they know if it was Canadian BSE when the US HAS BSE IN THEIR NATIVE HERD. :? Just because you don't want to admit you have BSE, PHYLLIS PROVED YOU DO. :wink: and by not testing the recommended cattle you are proving to everyone including your consumers that you aren't serious about finding out how big your problem really is. Blame it on the Canadian, I'd say you better worry about what your beef is doing. :roll:

 

[Tam]

Tam wrote:

And This still doesn't answer my question If Japan is using your test then why did they say the testing that they have been doing showed nothing in animals under 20 months and therefore they were dropping their 100% testing protocol for protocol that excluded the 20 month and under catagory of cattle?

Well gee wiz Tam, maybe it is because the animals under 20 months were not harboring any PrPsc to be detected in the first place - have you even considered that as an answer??? Perhaps not huh??

As for their decision to stop the testing, perhaps that might have been as a result of the delegations of US officials that went to Japan to try to negotiate a deal. Or was it the fact that two delegations came to North America from Japan to observe first hand the scrutiny that both the Canadian and US have in place - the same scrutiny that you continue to applaud - to ensure that the beef industry is indeed living up to the standards placed upon them by the European authorities in Paris, you know, the ones that you feel can do no wrong? Perhaps that may have swayed the Japanese to ease their position. Did you ever consider that???

Do you really think the Japanese if they thought there was a risk to their consumers and they had a test they believed worked at all age would drop their testing protocol because they trust our systems? Did you forget that the US still has loopholes that could be infecting under 20 month old animals via Chicken litter and plate waste. Why would they drop they testing requirement if they thought they could prove the meat was BSE FREE with your test?

 

[Anonymous]

Tam Did you forget the Canuck government backed down on all those safeguard rules they proposed a couple years ago--Same as the US....And they aren't in effect- sold out long term safety to short term packer economics again......

I think BSE tester will end up being right on this one in both countries--Both countries will end up testing- maybe everything...10-15 years from now when people start dying from BSE (vCJD) or another TSE in North America the public will demand it- just like the Japanese.....BUT I wonder How many will die because of the bullheadedness of the Tams & ~SH~'s of the world that blindly follow the Packers and NCBA/CCA/CFIA/USDA and their economy driven science...

Creekstone could have tested thousands at no cost to the producer and given the world a better sampling of the extent of this disease.....

 

[Bill]

BSE testers post above:

Two Feed Suppliers in Northern Alberta are still - that is AS I WRITE THIS - providing feed with animal protein in it!!

Oldtimers post regarding this comment on Cattle Today: http://cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19462

Bez- You need to go over to ranchers.net and talk to BSE tester (New Creekstone Proposal thread)...He's from Edmonton and claims CFIA's enforcement has been abysmal-- and that it has no teeth....He claims that two Canadian feed companies are still putting animal protein in cattle feed...

Here's a tidbit you may want to file Oldtimer it is a RUMINENT to RUMINENT feed ban.

I hope you just read it wrong and aren't lieing to the good people at Cattle Today Oldtimer. (Nahhhh you wouldn't do that! :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll

So, Bill, how is that ruminant to ruminant food ban working? Any post ban positives lately?

Everyone knows Canada's is doing better than the US as we don't feed chicken crap while the US still does.

Our feed ban may not be perfect but by continuing to feed chicken crap you don't even have one. Might be a good idea to look over your shoulder instead of pointing fingers. At least Canada is finding and openly admitting to its positives instead of greasing palms as the crooked Oldtimer recommends.

 

[feeder]

What ever happened to that wonderful saying of 2 years ago. We are a great big North American beef industry. Now the same ones that were calling the two countries that, are the very ones trying to distant themselves and calling it a Canadian versus USA industry.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

What ever happened to that wonderful saying of 2 years ago. We are a great big North American beef industry. Now the same ones that were calling the two countries that, are the very ones trying to distant themselves and calling it a Canadian versus USA industry.

Gee feeder I think it had something to do with R-CALF. you know that Ranchers- Charitable Allowance to Lawyers Fund.

 

[Sandhusker]

What ever happened to that wonderful saying of 2 years ago. We are a great big North American beef industry. Now the same ones that were calling the two countries that, are the very ones trying to distant themselves and calling it a Canadian versus USA industry.

Gee feeder I think it had something to do with R-CALF. you know that Ranchers- Charitable Allowance to Lawyers Fund.

Why should we want it, it has only disadvantages for US producers.

 

[Bill]

What ever happened to that wonderful saying of 2 years ago. We are a great big North American beef industry. Now the same ones that were calling the two countries that, are the very ones trying to distant themselves and calling it a Canadian versus USA industry.

We continue to have a North American beef industry as evidenced by the amount of trade which has resumed bewtween the two countries.

There are startling differences however between the two countries in the openness and honesty in which testing has been handled as well as the approach taken by some such as R-Calf who still want to try and use the issue for monetary gain.

Because some of us point this out does not mean we see a further seperation much to the disappointment of those such as yourself.

 

[Econ101]

What ever happened to that wonderful saying of 2 years ago. We are a great big North American beef industry. Now the same ones that were calling the two countries that, are the very ones trying to distant themselves and calling it a Canadian versus USA industry.

We continue to have a North American beef industry as evidenced by the amount of trade which has resumed bewtween the two countries.

There are startling differences however between the two countries in the openness and honesty in which testing has been handled as well as the approach taken by some such as R-Calf who still want to try and use the issue for monetary gain.

Because some of us point this out does not mean we see a further seperation much to the disappointment of those such as yourself.

Bill, based on the alberta report we have discussed on this forum, Canadians have as much trouble with govt. honesty as producers in the U.S. have with the USDA. Neither one of them passes the "smell" test. The USDA couldn't convince the Japanese. If the test is only $20.00 per head, why don't we all support testing of every animal until we know this is not a problem anymore? Maybe we could get some real science in correcting the problems instead of allowing them to be wedge issues and used politically. It seems that many have not even supported voluntary testing, which should have been a no brainer (of course that also is an indicator of brains).

The fact is that our system on bse is not transparent and the USDA wants to keep control of all testing. That raises some real big red flags.

 

[Sandhusker]

What ever happened to that wonderful saying of 2 years ago. We are a great big North American beef industry. Now the same ones that were calling the two countries that, are the very ones trying to distant themselves and calling it a Canadian versus USA industry.

We continue to have a North American beef industry as evidenced by the amount of trade which has resumed bewtween the two countries.

There are startling differences however between the two countries in the openness and honesty in which testing has been handled as well as the approach taken by some such as R-Calf who still want to try and use the issue for monetary gain.

Because some of us point this out does not mean we see a further seperation much to the disappointment of those such as yourself.

Your tag-line reads "Canadian beef - a cut above the rest". If you truly believe that, why do you want your product lumped with ours? That is exactly what this "North American Beef" concept does - it blurs the lines between the two countries and puts your "cut above" beef in the same bin and same label as beef from Hondouras. Is that what you want?

 

[Econ101]

What ever happened to that wonderful saying of 2 years ago. We are a great big North American beef industry. Now the same ones that were calling the two countries that, are the very ones trying to distant themselves and calling it a Canadian versus USA industry.

We continue to have a North American beef industry as evidenced by the amount of trade which has resumed bewtween the two countries.

There are startling differences however between the two countries in the openness and honesty in which testing has been handled as well as the approach taken by some such as R-Calf who still want to try and use the issue for monetary gain.

Because some of us point this out does not mean we see a further seperation much to the disappointment of those such as yourself.

Your tag-line reads "Canadian beef - a cut above the rest". If you truly believe that, why do you want your product lumped with ours? That is exactly what this "North American Beef" concept does - it blurs the lines between the two countries and puts your "cut above" beef in the same bin and same label as beef from Hondouras. Is that what you want?

It also puts companies that trade beef internationally in the drivers seat when it comes to controlling the supply in the industry. Do you think they will use that additional power to make producers profits or profits for themselves?

 

[Tam]

Tam Did you forget the Canuck government backed down on all those safeguard rules they proposed a couple years ago--Same as the US....And they aren't in effect- sold out long term safety to short term packer economics again......

I think BSE tester will end up being right on this one in both countries--Both countries will end up testing- maybe everything...10-15 years from now when people start dying from BSE (vCJD) or another TSE in North America the public will demand it- just like the Japanese.....BUT I wonder How many will die because of the bullheadedness of the Tams & ~SH~'s of the world that blindly follow the Packers and NCBA/CCA/CFIA/USDA and their economy driven science...

Creekstone could have tested thousands at no cost to the producer and given the world a better sampling of the extent of this disease.....

Oldtimer until the US is caught up with Canada Please don't comment on what we haven't done YET.You have a long way to go or did you forget you personally said the US has a right to have the same safeguards as Canada has had for years.
Why can't you get it through your head that even Creekstone said that BSE tested beef doesn't mean BSE FREE. so tell us how the testing they were going to do was going to give the world a better sampling of the extent of the disease when they were going to test animals that would not show positive with the test Japan was using.

BSE testers test may be the saving factor but until the government validates it it is doing us no good. Besides if what BSE tester says is true about his test and that it can detect prions in urine in cattle of all ages then why is he saying we should test every animal headed into the human food chain why not test the whole herd and eliminate it? Does the animal have to be dead to get a sample of its urine? If Japan believes in the test why haven't they tested their whole herd, eliminated anything testing positive and gone back to BSE free status. That would sure ease the minds of their consumers to know the government had eradicated the disease altogether.

 

[Econ101]

Tam Did you forget the Canuck government backed down on all those safeguard rules they proposed a couple years ago--Same as the US....And they aren't in effect- sold out long term safety to short term packer economics again......

I think BSE tester will end up being right on this one in both countries--Both countries will end up testing- maybe everything...10-15 years from now when people start dying from BSE (vCJD) or another TSE in North America the public will demand it- just like the Japanese.....BUT I wonder How many will die because of the bullheadedness of the Tams & ~SH~'s of the world that blindly follow the Packers and NCBA/CCA/CFIA/USDA and their economy driven science...

Creekstone could have tested thousands at no cost to the producer and given the world a better sampling of the extent of this disease.....

Oldtimer until the US is caught up with Canada Please don't comment on what we haven't done YET.You have a long way to go or did you forget you personally said the US has a right to have the same safeguards as Canada has had for years.
Why can't you get it through your head that even Creekstone said that BSE tested beef doesn't mean BSE FREE. so tell us how the testing they were going to do was going to give the world a better sampling of the extent of the disease when they were going to test animals that would not show positive with the test Japan was using.

BSE testers test may be the saving factor but until the government validates it it is doing us no good. Besides if what BSE tester says is true about his test and that it can detect prions in urine in cattle of all ages then why is he saying we should test every animal headed into the human food chain why not test the whole herd and eliminate it? Does the animal have to be dead to get a sample of its urine? If Japan believes in the test why haven't they tested their whole herd, eliminated anything testing positive and gone back to BSE free status. That would sure ease the minds of their consumers to know the government had eradicated the disease altogether.

Tam, by your own above reasoning, cattle tested by the Canadian govt. may be BSE tested, but not BSE free. I think you have just shot yourself in the foot. :lol: :lol:

 

[feeder]

If Ot can't comment on issues in Canada then I'd appreciate if you refrain from commenting on our issues in the USA.