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High Plains said:
Folks, the CAB brand is exactly that, a BRAND. Started in 1978, when pretty-much any black beef animal was surely an Angus or Angus-cross in the U.S. So, the 51% black hide pretty-well cinched the Angus part in those days. But there are 10 carcass specifications that have to be met, so definately not just "black ones" makes CAB.

Today there are several black breeds and we all know that. No reason to waste time worrying about it because it is what it is. However, only 23% or so of the 51% solid black cattle pass the carcass measurements to make it into CAB. Marbling in that ribeye has to be in the middle-Choice and higher range. That's the biggest hurdle to clear. Nine other carcass specifications are also important, but they are not as difficult to achieve as the marbling.

Whether you like the CAB brand or not, it is brings dollars back from the packer (1300 lb. x $3.00/cwt = $39.00). Packers don't buy cattle on hype, they buy them on value and CAB is just another value aspect due to quality. Cuss it if it makes you feel better, but CAB is not stating proof of registration of Angus cattle. It's a brand name that was invented when there was no such thing as branded beef (besides on the hide, of course). A McDonald's Angus burger is not CAB, as CAB doesn't own rights to the word "Angus".

Being mad at the Angus people for inventing it is like being mad at the guy that invented toothpicks to sell. Heck, that's not a toothpick, it's a sharpened piece of kindling!! The only thing to be mad about is that someone else thought of it first.

If you've got a different color or breed of cattle, then go forth and multiply! Be succussful with what makes you successful. Run a cow that makes you happy, fits your management and earns you profit. That's the NEXT HOT BREED for you! We all need consumers to DEMAND BEEF!

Here's a link to the specs on their web site:

http://www.certifiedangusbeef.com/brand/specs.php
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AMEN- well put..... :agree:
 
Whoops, I had to go back and adjust the math. Forgot to convert to a carcass basis the first time. Edited to the correct $24.75 / head on that 825 carcass yielded from a 1300 lb. steer. You also have to add the Choice-Select spread. Pretty narrow today, at the seasonal low that almost always comes in March.

Apologize for the miscalculation. :oops:
 
I am a little behind, tried to skim through most of the post on this thread. I am not a CAB fan, but can not argue that it may be the best marketing strategy that the beef industry has ever seen. My take on the hottest breed is this. You can spend a lot of money trying to keep up the latest and greatest. Find what works and polish it. My father recently sold a set of fall calves hit the CAB premium at 56%, the national average is about 17% I believe. He was as proud as a new father, he went on to tell me about all the premium that was paid and how great the cattle were and on and on and on. I told him that was great and then brought him down to earth. He sold that set of calves at average market value, they were just another set of calves no better than anyone elses. That fired him up, until I asked how much of that premium he put in his pocket, NONE. It does no good to chase a market if you are capturing it for someone else. He would have been better off to sell a set of calves that would have graded 100% select because it would not have cost him near as much to get them there. The savings in production would have been in his pocket not a premium in someone elses. The only thing he got was bragging rights. I can't help but live by the old saying "Money talks and BS walks". There are a thousand ways to skin a cat. Find what works for you and make sure you stay good at it.
 
I doubt that it cost much of anything to make those calves genetically capable of grading as well as they did. Buy high quality bulls, raise good cattle. There's no expense besides the cost of good genetics. He was going to spend that money anyway since he's a good cattleman. Therefore, it's a winner for him to make those 56% CAB calves happen. No skin off his teeth and a better, more profitable product for the fella that buys them.

Seems like raising those calves so that they would grade 100% Select may have an equal and opposite impact on the guy that's buying the calves to feed. Slight chance that he may not come back next year? For sure.

Just my slaunchwise outlook on the world. :D
 
flyingS said:
I am a little behind, tried to skim through most of the post on this thread. I am not a CAB fan, but can not argue that it may be the best marketing strategy that the beef industry has ever seen. My take on the hottest breed is this. You can spend a lot of money trying to keep up the latest and greatest. Find what works and polish it. My father recently sold a set of fall calves hit the CAB premium at 56%, the national average is about 17% I believe. He was as proud as a new father, he went on to tell me about all the premium that was paid and how great the cattle were and on and on and on. I told him that was great and then brought him down to earth. He sold that set of calves at average market value, they were just another set of calves no better than anyone elses. That fired him up, until I asked how much of that premium he put in his pocket, NONE. It does no good to chase a market if you are capturing it for someone else. He would have been better off to sell a set of calves that would have graded 100% select because it would not have cost him near as much to get them there. The savings in production would have been in his pocket not a premium in someone elses. The only thing he got was bragging rights. I can't help but live by the old saying "Money talks and BS walks". There are a thousand ways to skin a cat. Find what works for you and make sure you stay good at it.
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Next set he sells if he has the data announce that from the auctioneer's stand. Then he might get his premium. Or use it as a bargaining tool when selling private treaty.
 
My point is it does no good to pursue a market that you do not intend to capture. If you do not pursue the premium what's the point in having bragging rights. There is no doubt that my dad is a good cow man, could he run a more profitable outfit, that's a question he has even began to ponder. He will tell you that boughten cows have made him way more money than his high quality home raised heifers. Don't get caught up doing what everyone else is doing if doing with what you have is making you money. There are different ways to look at it, if what your doing is making money maybe it is possible to improve upon it with out an extreme investment, or you could make an extreme change including a substantial investment hoping that it will show you a return. On the other side of it maybe you would be better off to lower your inputs and increase your profit instead of keeping your inputs the same and hoping for a good calf market. Fire away, lots of you don't like my thought process, it's is fine I don't mind a bit. That's what makes the world go round.
 
Can't argue with those points, Flying S. If you can't reap a reward for any extra input then it's a non-plus. If you can get another bid or keep a happy buyer pushing the market, then you may have something there.
 
Well put high plains, a marketing tool that has been extremely successful. And I have to disagree with saying your dad doesn't get a premium for his calves. His reputation is much better for raising calves that do meet CAB therefore his calves bring more money. If they graded select them buyers wouldn't pay near as much. And for all of you against CAB I just don't understand. It must be just that you don't have black cattle. And if you don't then put them on a different program, like sterling silver, same requirements as CAB but it can be any color. And don't be pisses at the angus guys because like high plains said when they started CAB most all black cattle were angus influenced. And now its such a good premium that any black calf that comes in the plant gets stamped with an A. Blame the packer for that if you want to since there taking advantage of a good deal. What do you want them to do dna test every carcass, there goes all the premium. Anyone in the beef business that has a problem with a marketing tool that promotes our product to city people that don't know the difference between a cow and a sheep obviously have more serious issues to work on, were all the same team remember! Complain to your association for not doing a good enough job of promoting your breed.
 
strawking said:
Well put high plains, a marketing tool that has been extremely successful. And I have to disagree with saying your dad doesn't get a premium for his calves. His reputation is much better for raising calves that do meet CAB therefore his calves bring more money. If they graded select them buyers wouldn't pay near as much. And for all of you against CAB I just don't understand. It must be just that you don't have black cattle. And if you don't then put them on a different program, like sterling silver, same requirements as CAB but it can be any color. And don't be p***** at the angus guys because like high plains said when they started CAB most all black cattle were angus influenced. And now its such a good premium that any black calf that comes in the plant gets stamped with an A. Blame the packer for that if you want to since there taking advantage of a good deal. What do you want them to do dna test every carcass, there goes all the premium. Anyone in the beef business that has a problem with a marketing tool that promotes our product to city people that don't know the difference between a cow and a sheep obviously have more serious issues to work on, were all the same team remember! Complain to your association for not doing a good enough job of promoting your breed.
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Amen..
 
I was in college, (and actually in class), the first time I heard the term CAB. At the time it was mentioned by a grad student that some Holstein- influenced cattle would occasionally qualify. I'm pretty sure that was pointed out as the current competition, in 1982.
Times have changed, apparently so have the color of more hides getting peeled. I sure wish we could gaurentee a tender product, but I enjoy a marbled one. I bet more steaks are mis-cooked than mis-bred. FWIW
 
It looks like to me in order to cash in on CAB you need to retain ownership. There is nothing wrong with black cattle, nor is there red or composites. I am not trying to tell you how to run your business either. I can tell you that as my wife and I are trying to build a cow herd CAB and gradeability are not high on our priority list. Buying cattle of value interest me, even if I had the money you would not see me buying someones high dollar black heifers or mature cows. I've got to make them pay their way and I am not going to buy them on a prayer that the market stays good. I am also not banking on some CAB premium. I bank on low calf prices which built an easy 200 into my calves last year. Banking on the same this year and hoping prices stay as good as they are.
 
flyingS said:
It looks like to me in order to cash in on CAB you need to retain ownership. There is nothing wrong with black cattle, nor is there red or composites. I am not trying to tell you how to run your business either. I can tell you that as my wife and I are trying to build a cow herd CAB and gradeability are not high on our priority list. Buying cattle of value interest me, even if I had the money you would not see me buying someones high dollar black heifers or mature cows. I've got to make them pay their way and I am not going to buy them on a prayer that the market stays good. I am also not banking on some CAB premium. I bank on low calf prices which built an easy 200 into my calves last year. Banking on the same this year and hoping prices stay as good as they are.
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When the cattle market is high, any kind of cattle sell high. When the cattle market is cheap, the good ones bring a significant premium. Quality usually pays.

On a high market, even an old cancer-eyed cow tends to bring pretty good money. On a cheap market, you can hardly give one away.

Even though your dad didn't feed his good calves to finish, he still got a significant premium because they were top-of-the-line cattle. Quality pays. One thing I have noticed through the years though, is that a bit of extra nutrition can take the place of a lot of high-priced genetics.
 
I am not sure that there is a premium payed for high quality cattle anymore. I think it is more like being discounted for low quality. Soap, we both know what kind of quality those cows are. Yes, Dad has done well. I shouldn't have used the example because it distracts people from the point. You have to define low quality. I buy cattle that are of value to me, that means she may have a blemish or be meaner than Hitler or maybe a less than desirable calving date, doesn't mean she is of poor qualiity. Just means no one else wants her. I bought one heck of a bull the same way, he wasn't a virgin and my dad was going to have to weigh him up so I tapped into the gene pool and did it far below market value for those genetics. It's a mind set. I don't need to spend a lot of money to buy quality, I just have to put up with a little more than some people want to.
 
Good for you if you can make "Second" cut cattle work for you. My Dad did. At one time they called him the "Smoky King" before smoky colored calves were in vogue. :D He also bought a lot of Long horns before they changed the grading system. We could make lots of different cattle work if you had the numbers to form a package or feed them to finish.
He sure likes my herd of black cows. He's bought cattle for enough years and sorted cattle at 89 I still like getting him out to look over the sort. But that said I cull any cows that are "meaner then Hitler" just for the fact life is to short to deal with mean cows. I have had my kids work with we since they were 4 or 5 maybe younger. The youngest is now 25, My dad is 89, I try to keep him out of the mix when we are working big bunches mostly because his hearing isn't the best and he's moving a little slow but not because of mean cows.

Just think if all those ranchers didn't have those top quality cattle you wouldn't have cattle with "value to you" to purchase. :D
 
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a good set of black cows. Obviously, black angus cattle have the largest influence on cow herds across the nation. It does not make red angus cattle any less valuable, nor does it exclude any other breed out there. In the end your bottom line will tell you what works for you. Good cattle sell well, poor cattle sell poor, doesn't necessarily mean that the margins are so far apart. I would like to see what some of the profit margins are on a large variety of operations. Heck I know people that sold calves higher than they have ever sold them in their lives last year and still couldn't pay the bills. Point being that no matter how good your cattle are if you can not manage them or market them in the end you just have a good set of cows nothing else. The latest and greatest cow herd is one that is managed to it's optimum performance and maximum profitability. There are lot's of you that are doing a good job of that and some not so good. Happy calving and I hope your cow herd does the job for you all this coming year.
 
Soapweed said:
flyingS said:
It looks like to me in order to cash in on CAB you need to retain ownership. There is nothing wrong with black cattle, nor is there red or composites. I am not trying to tell you how to run your business either. I can tell you that as my wife and I are trying to build a cow herd CAB and gradeability are not high on our priority list. Buying cattle of value interest me, even if I had the money you would not see me buying someones high dollar black heifers or mature cows. I've got to make them pay their way and I am not going to buy them on a prayer that the market stays good. I am also not banking on some CAB premium. I bank on low calf prices which built an easy 200 into my calves last year. Banking on the same this year and hoping prices stay as good as they are.
Click to expand...

When the cattle market is high, any kind of cattle sell high. When the cattle market is cheap, the good ones bring a significant premium. Quality usually pays.

On a high market, even an old cancer-eyed cow tends to bring pretty good money. On a cheap market, you can hardly give one away.

Even though your dad didn't feed his good calves to finish, he still got a significant premium because they were top-of-the-line cattle. Quality pays. One thing I have noticed through the years though, is that a bit of extra nutrition can take the place of a lot of high-priced genetics.
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I had a guy looking at bulls today and he said it's 35% genetics 65% feed fat sells thats for sure.
 
Interesting and comical in ways to hear everyone argue breeds...Everyone must have too much free time on their hands because on another cattle site they are even discussing length and fullness of tails and tail switch's- with the idea the longer fuller tails are better cattle..

My first calf of the years momma wouldn't fit into those tail standards- but with her no ears/no tail to me she shows she is a survivor...

100_0251-1.jpg


And it apparently didn't negatively affect her fertility any as last year she calved 3 days before I was supposed to start- and this year she was 10 days early....68 lb heifer calf out of Lazy Bar B Leinie surprised us yesterday morning....
 
rancherfred said:
No ears and tail doesn't mean she is a survivor, it just means she was born at the wrong time of year. :wink: :lol:
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This year I wish I had calved in Feb/March...

68 degrees here this afternoon... Sunbathing weather !
 
I'll bet you weren't thinking that last year OT. I remember calving in March in this kind of weather and watching the forecasts and hoping and praying against the storms that would always seem to come. I don't miss those days. Hopefully the weather stays nice for everyone calving now.
 

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